Non-paying passengers on Dublin Bus

AlekSmart · 20-03-2013 10:53pm

bmaxi wrote: »

Ok. Sticking to the core of the discussion. You've gone from "it doesn't happen" to "it may happen" to "I've allowed it myself", full marks to you for honesty.........

.........We both know that CIE, as an entity, is choked with rules and regulations and we both know that most of them might as well be printed on clouds for all the attention paid to them, both at management and worker level gus travel ...............
.......I don't know why this is, all my posts have referred specifically to bus workers travelling with their families.

Right oh,I'm uncertain as to what response you require from me really...?

If it is to somehow confirm your experience of Busworkers shepherding their spouses and families hither,tither and yon throughout the Dublin Bus catchment area,then I'm afraid I can't oblige you there,not out of any desire to frustrate you,but simply due to my lack of observing or facilitating the "practice" at the levels witnessed by you in the past,and by Foggy_lad apparently daily.

Or perhaps,on the other hand,you wish me to state that "NO..Such a thing NEVER happens...!",well that would,quite obviously,not be true,so I don't intend to offer that to you either.

However from your comments re "CIE as an entity choking with rules and regulations" I take it you have perhaps other or greater issues with the Holding Company itself (Or its staff generally ?) ,which may be worth a seperate thread.

Other than that,I dont really know what response will suffice,other than to restate very clearly that I have no antipathy whatsoever to DSP Free Travel Scheme members.

Ok ?

schemingbohemia · 21-03-2013 12:03pm

Bmaxi is using his/her experience of 40 years ago to inform his/her view of the world now. They are very different places, very different companies - we're not in Kansas anymore Toto!

bmaxi · 21-03-2013 2:09pm

schemingbohemia wrote: »

Bmaxi is using his/her experience of 40 years ago to inform his/her view of the world now. They are very different places, very different companies - we're not in Kansas anymore Toto!

You don't know me or anything about me, yet you feel qualified to make an observation like that? Very astute, keep guessing.

lucernarian · 21-03-2013 2:20pm

schemingbohemia wrote: »

Bmaxi is using his/her experience of 40 years ago to inform his/her view of the world now. They are very different places, very different companies - we're not in Kansas anymore Toto!

Have to agree with bmaxi there, I'd love to know where you're getting your experience to inform your view of his posts right now;)

I think that families and children are indeed brought onto buses for free on a regular basis, be it with drivers not challenging drivers with families getting on board or with kids flashing PTI cards. What's the phrase... The truth, as always, lies somewhere in between?

I also think there's an argument to say that some sort of discounted (bus) ticket scheme for busmen's dependents could be introduced... Especially as part of the upcoming renumerations talks with the unions. Make it an official perk, if you will.

LXFlyer · 21-03-2013 2:22pm

bmaxi wrote: »

You don't know me or anything about me, yet you feel qualified to make an observation like that? Very astute, keep guessing.

To be fair you said earlier in this thread that you ceased working with DCS in 1973, which is what I would assume Scheming's post was based on.

schemingbohemia · 21-03-2013 2:34pm

bmaxi wrote: »

You don't know me or anything about me, yet you feel qualified to make an observation like that? Very astute, keep guessing.

To_be_confirmed wrote: »

Have to agree with bmaxi there, I'd love to know where you're getting your experience to inform your view of his posts right now;)

I think that families and children are indeed brought onto buses for free on a regular basis, be it with drivers not challenging drivers with families getting on board or with kids flashing PTI cards. What's the phrase... The truth, as always, lies somewhere in between?

I also think there's an argument to say that some sort of discounted (bus) ticket scheme for busmen's dependents could be introduced... Especially as part of the upcoming renumerations talks with the unions. Make it an official perk, if you will.

lxflyer wrote: »

To be fair you said earlier in this thread that you ceased working with DCS in 1973, which is what I would assume Scheming's post was based on.

As lxflyer has stated, I'm only going on the information you provided yourself, you stopped working for DCS 40 years ago, I didn't even know what DCS was!

LXFlyer · 21-03-2013 2:37pm

DCS = Dublin City Services (the division of CIE equivalent to Dublin Bus).

bmaxi · 21-03-2013 4:12pm

schemingbohemia wrote: »

As lxflyer has stated, I'm only going on the information you provided yourself, you stopped working for DCS 40 years ago, I didn't even know what DCS was!

I said I left DCS in 1974, I didn't say I left the loop or the country or the planet.
You don't know what my connections or associations have been in the intervening years, yet you feel free to comment as you did. As I said, keep guessing.

schemingbohemia · 21-03-2013 6:18pm

Chill out why don't you?

Have you provided any evidence that you have seen widespread allowing on of DB employees families for free travel? I couldn't give a fiddler's who you are or what your life is, all I was calling you on was your acceptance that what happened 40 years ago is still happening.

LXFlyer · 21-03-2013 7:36pm

I really think this thread has had its day tbh.

To be fair about this, I think that to deny that drivers do let DB staff travel free occasionally is not accurate, nor is it accurate to suggest that it's widespread these days. It's somewhere in between. I have seen both happen - i.e. drivers and their families waved past or drivers paying for their families. But I don't see either every day of the week - only very occasionally.

Times have changed, and most families do now have a car for one which means they don't avail of the bus as a family that much.

I think this shows the danger of making sweeping generalisations.

Either way, the thread has got totally sidetracked. The OP wasn't referring to DB staff and their families, but rather to DSP passes.

bmaxi · 21-03-2013 9:28pm

schemingbohemia wrote: »

Chill out why don't you?

Have you provided any evidence that you have seen widespread allowing on of DB employees families for free travel? I couldn't give a fiddler's who you are or what your life is, all I was calling you on was your acceptance that what happened 40 years ago is still happening.

You really need to read the thread before you comment. If you did you would see that I have never made any suggestion it was widespread in DB, I said it was common practice in DCS and posed the question as to whether that was still the case, please get your facts straight.

LXFlyer · 22-03-2013 9:42am

Well anyways, I can report that the RPU have been particularly busy on my bus this morning issuing standard fare notices and seizing passes that had no photo ID, be they DSP or student/adult passes.

schemingbohemia · 22-03-2013 12:19pm

lxflyer wrote: »

Well anyways, I can report that the RPU have been particularly busy on my bus this morning issuing standard fare notices and seizing passes that had no photo ID, be they DSP or student/adult passes.

Excellent news, a lot more of this please.

Fred Swanson · 22-03-2013 1:55pm

This post has been deleted.

LXFlyer · 22-03-2013 2:20pm

They weren't visitors believe me

Fred Swanson · 22-03-2013 2:28pm

This post has been deleted.

bmaxi · 22-03-2013 2:52pm

lxflyer wrote: »

Well anyways, I can report that the RPU have been particularly busy on my bus this morning issuing standard fare notices and seizing passes that had no photo ID, be they DSP or student/adult passes.

If they're serious about stamping out fraud, this should be done on a regular basis, not just the odd blitz.

con1421 · 22-03-2013 2:59pm

God I would love a free buss pass. I pay nearly 6 euro in and out of town every day for college. That's 30 euro a weekish. I wish I could get cheap access. In Boston it's 12 dollars a week for unlimited transport throughout the city and a much more frequent service which includes the trains. It seems the bus fares are gone up aswell. Back in first year it was 2.15 into town :-(

schemingbohemia · 22-03-2013 3:01pm

bmaxi wrote: »

You really need to read the thread before you comment. If you did you would see that I have never made any suggestion it was widespread in DB, I said it was common practice in DCS and posed the question as to whether that was still the case, please get your facts straight.

bmaxi wrote: »

I don't think it matters whether there are only 2500 bus workers in the city, if the practice continues, and I've stated earlier, I"d be very surprised if it didn't, then it is at least disingenuous of you to criticise others.

bmaxi wrote: »

this doesn't alter the fact that the practice still exists and that if they wanted to travel by bus they could, so, in my opinion, it's a sort of pot and kettle attitude on your part.

bmaxi wrote: »

It's obvious practices will have changed over the years but I'm willing to bet this one has not, it just may not be as frequent but it still happens and I find it hard to believe that in twenty years you have never come across even one instance of it.

I present the facts, that you have stated that you believe the practise to be ongoing, if not widespread, and you are basically calling Aleksmart a liar even though you have not presented one single piece of your own witnessing this happening.

schemingbohemia · 22-03-2013 3:03pm

con1421 wrote: »

God I would love a free buss pass. I pay nearly 6 euro in and out of town every day for college. That's 30 euro a weekish. I wish I could get cheap access. In Boston it's 12 dollars a week for unlimited transport throughout the city and a much more frequent service which includes the trains. It seems the bus fares are gone up aswell. Back in first year it was 2.15 into town :-(

Have you looked at getting a Leap Card www.leapcard.ie
A travel 90 ticket or a student ticket? These would all be cheaper than what you are currently paying. What was your local tax situation in Boston?

Joshycat · 22-03-2013 3:13pm

con1421 wrote: »

God I would love a free buss pass. I pay nearly 6 euro in and out of town every day for college. That's 30 euro a weekish. I wish I could get cheap access. In Boston it's 12 dollars a week for unlimited transport throughout the city and a much more frequent service which includes the trains. It seems the bus fares are gone up aswell. Back in first year it was 2.15 into town :-(

Yes and I bet you never even bothered to look at cheaper prepaid ticket options.Like a student 5 day or 30 day rambler that would mean you would only be paying around 3 euro a day thats half the price of what your paying now :rolleyes:

bmaxi · 22-03-2013 4:28pm

schemingbohemia wrote: »

I present the facts, that you have stated that you believe the practise to be ongoing, if not widespread, and you are basically calling Aleksmart a liar even though you have not presented one single piece of your own witnessing this happening.

Once again, read the thread not just what you think supports your argument. I posed the question to Alek Smart because he had denied the practice in a reply to Foggy Lad. I told him I believed the practice was still going on and gave him the opportunity to refute that statement. At the end of the day, he wasn't able to do that, so how that amounts to calling him a liar, I don't know. It wasn't a case of me proving it was still going on, rather a case of him proving it wasn't.

foggy_lad · 22-03-2013 4:35pm

lxflyer wrote: »

They weren't visitors believe me

The photopass is required for people living in Dublin, Cork, Limerick, Galway and Waterford. If the address on a pass is outside of these urban areas then the photopass is not mandatory, but some pass holders get it anyway.

Also why were the RPU on your bus? Dont they usualy deal only with train fares?

LXFlyer · 22-03-2013 5:36pm

Dublin Bus RPU

AlekSmart · 23-03-2013 12:08am

bmaxi wrote: »

Once again, read the thread not just what you think supports your argument. I posed the question to Alek Smart because he had denied the practice in a reply to Foggy Lad. I told him I believed the practice was still going on and gave him the opportunity to refute that statement. At the end of the day, he wasn't able to do that, so how that amounts to calling him a liar, I don't know. It wasn't a case of me proving it was still going on, rather a case of him proving it wasn't.

With respect Bmaxi,earlier on you accused me of being disingenuous in my posts,however I feel it's worth clarifying at least some of what you post above.

It is,I also feel,worth posting the Original Post itself for context.

Jellybaby1:I've noticed a lot of passengers flashing a whiteish coloured card at the driver and not paying a fare. I buy tickets and it didn't resemble those. Does anyone know if this is for the unemployed or medical card holders? The passengers were all ages and none of them were disabled. Last week on one journey there were at least 6-8 passengers I witnessed with the card. I'm not a begrudger but wondered if any of my family members were missing out on some benefit they don't know about.

However,the actual exchange which,I think,Bmaxi sees as problematic is here...

Post#23 Foggy_Lad: You will always know when a bus driver gets on a bus with the family on a Sunday afternoon as they are pushed on past the driver while daddy stays to have a chat.

There followed a substantial exchange between Foggy and many other posters to'ing and fro'ing on a series of interpretations.

Then in Post#58,I decided to re-engage with Foggy on his Post#23..

AlekSmart: I decided to revisit the above post,as I feel it is objectionable....as a Busdriver myself I have never adopted this,nor in over 20 years have I had it played out on any service I have driven.

The reality,Foggy_Lad,is that you have absolutely no grounds for this comment,save perhaps,for a myopic desire to make snide and deprecating comments about a particular group of workers.

I note that you regularly take issue with posters who raise legitimate questions concerning misuse of DSP Free Travel Scheme facilities,yet you feel free to continually make direct accusations against a specific group of workers.

Note that I refer on several occassions to MY experience as a Busdriver,which I again reiterate now.

Soon after this in Post#65,responding to Mrs O Bumble I expanded on my response to Foggy...

Not at all Mrs O'B,I'm not saying it does'nt occur.

What I am challenging is Foggy_Lad's desire to portray it as an integral part of every Busdrivers day.

In the case of Dublin Bus with c.2500 drivers,the amount of times this could occur is very low,in fact if Foggy_Lad is claiming to witness it on Sunday Afternoons,then he must be virtually living on a Bus 24/7.

It is not the nature of the accusation itself,but rather the fact that it is yet another insinuation thrown malicioulsy out,as was the "Facilitating of Perversion" one,which I feel merits robust challenge and rebuttal.

I would also state that I have often had fellow staff members pay for their children's fares,which I suppose is a bit like my own late fathers refusal to use his Free Travel Pass as he thought it meant the Depatrtment felt he could not afford his own BusFare....the cheek of them sez he !!!

Then in Post#72,Foggy revisits his original hasty accusation ,this time fleshing it out with a little deft wordplay...

Foggy_Lad:Well if a "mate" or work colleague of the driver's boards the bus and starts to chat to the driver while his female partner(sister/mother/cousin) boards and gets waved past by the driver and she then tells her partner she is going upstairs with the kids I would assume as would most others that they are getting a free pass from the driver!

So the same occurence,has developed a little from a definitive Busdrivers Family Group being "Pushed on past the Driver" to a slightly different focus of a "Mate" or Work Colleagues family being "Waved past by the Driver" with the assumption being that the event as witnessed just has to involve Busdrivers.

I note that Foggy was then gently moderated (by Monument) for portraying these specific incidences as everyday occurences involving Busdrivers en masse.

The issue,for myself and I believe Foggy_lad was put to bed in his lengthy clarification in Post#79,of which the pertinent paragraph is here..

Foggy_Lad:I have seen a few drivers seemingly allow others travel free but there may well be other information I am not aware of but what I refer to above is what happened about 18 months ago. It was not a big issue as I think drivers and their families should have concessionary fares at the least. In about four years I have seen at most 6-7 instances where it appeared that people were getting a pass from the driver so it is not widespread but I dont use Dublin buses daily. I apologise if I gave the impression that it is rampant.

So basically that's about as clear as I can make my views,it's not about denying,refuting,proving or disproving arguements,for me it's about stating,as simply and clearly as I can,MY OWN experiences through the years,perhaps assisting those with an interest to make their own decisions on whatever issue is at hand.

Apologies for the ramble,but I hope it helps ?

lucernarian · 23-03-2013 3:41am

con1421 wrote: »

God I would love a free buss pass. I pay nearly 6 euro in and out of town every day for college. That's 30 euro a weekish. I wish I could get cheap access. In Boston it's 12 dollars a week for unlimited transport throughout the city and a much more frequent service which includes the trains. It seems the bus fares are gone up aswell. Back in first year it was 2.15 into town :-(

What's stopping you from using a Student Rambler ticket?

Non-paying passengers on Dublin Bus

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