Non-paying passengers on Dublin Bus

Victor

foggy_lad wrote: »

There is an ESB travel pass but that is paid for by the ESB and not the DSP although it all comes out of the Taxpayers purse

Something else to add to Leap Card.

AlekSmart

petemm wrote: »

in what parallel world do you live in.
just look at the amount of people wearing uniforms from there jobs(shop workers) who use the free travel pass everyday.
if they have a job how can they have a social welfare free travel pass?
when there circumstances change who enforces the return of the pass?
its only a bit of paper they can say they lost it if asked to return it.
it is wide open to abuse, only people who should have it are OAP"s.

Incredible as it may seem,there are occasions when the DSP Free Travel Pass can be used in such circumstances.

Recipients of certain DSP bemefits may work up to 20 hours per week and continue to qualify for benefit.
If the benefit is one which carries entitlement to Free Travel,then the Pass continues to be valid.

There is no enforcement methodology in place for the return of the Free Travel Document.
Essentially the Department relies upon an Honesty based response to secure the return of documents from persons no longer eligible.

Mrs OBumble

OP, it doesn't sound like what you are seeing, but the TaxSaver ticket is white and credit-card sized.

When I get on the bus and flash the card, I always wonder if people assume that I'm using some kind of free-pass rather than a ticket which I paid for. (Admittedly I only pay about 60% of the "street value" .. but nevertheless I do pay.)

Victor

petemm wrote: »

man age 20 suffers from depression gets on disability and gets a free travel pass.

He would likely receive Illness Benefit and not a disability pension, therefore no pass.

petemm wrote: »

in what parallel world do you live in.
just look at the amount of people wearing uniforms from there jobs(shop workers) who use the free travel pass everyday.
if they have a job how can they have a social welfare free travel pass?

Perhaps because they have a disability, but still work. Do you honestly expect a blind person who works part time to drive to work?

jd

AlekSmart wrote: »

There is no enforcement methodology in place for the return of the Free Travel Document.
Essentially the Department relies upon an Honesty based response to secure the return of documents from persons no longer eligible.

Bloody Madness. I've alighted the bus at stops in a particular area in North Dublin where I've been in a (substantial) minority of non FT passengers.

Cereal Number

jd wrote: »

Bloody Madness. I've alighted the bus at stops in a particular area in North Dublin where I've been in a (substantial) minority of non FT passengers.

Well done

http://images.wikia.com/adventuretimewithfinnandjake/images/d/d7/Daily-Life-GIFs-17-Sarcastic-Clapping.gif

jd

Cereal Number wrote: »

Well done

http://images.wikia.com/adventuretimewithfinnandjake/images/d/d7/Daily-Life-GIFs-17-Sarcastic-Clapping.gif

Oh feck off. I'm having a bad hair day.

Victor

Cereal Number wrote: »

Well done

http://images.wikia.com/adventuretimewithfinnandjake/images/d/d7/Daily-Life-GIFs-17-Sarcastic-Clapping.gif

Constructive posts only please.

jd wrote: »

Oh feck off. I'm having a bad hair day.

Please don't quote images.

Moderator

foggy_lad

petemm wrote: »

in what parallel world do you live in.
just look at the amount of people wearing uniforms from there jobs(shop workers) who use the free travel pass everyday.
if they have a job how can they have a social welfare free travel pass?
when there circumstances change who enforces the return of the pass?
its only a bit of paper they can say they lost it if asked to return it.
it is wide open to abuse, only people who should have it are OAP"s.

Those people could well be carers for a family member; relative or neighbour and entitled to free teavel because of that.

Cereal Number

jd wrote: »

Oh feck off. I'm having a bad hair day.

What have you against those getting free travel??sake...

emzolita

Jellybaby1 wrote: »

I don't need 'educating' - no need for that remark. I have three disabled people, two intellectually disabled, and one physically disabled, in my family, so I would know.

This thread has gone all over the place. Does anyone else know what the white cards are? I was on the bus again today and there it was again, large, white and in plastic cover.

Not all disabilities are physical or mental. I had a pass for a while When I had really bad Epilepsy. My pass allowed have someone for free with me, as I took seizures every hour or so, I always had to be babysat.
I also got a lot of discrimination from bus drivers about having the pass, being young, and not being "disabled".. they would call me back, take the pass off me, check it, one in particular asked what I had the pass for, I was mortified.

dublinstevie

Should only be oap and disabled passes.get rid of the rest as it is being abused.the amount of junkie scum with passes is unreal

foggy_lad

dublinstevie wrote: »

Should only be oap and disabled passes.get rid of the rest as it is being abused.the amount of junkie scum with passes is unreal

Once they meet the qualifying criteria they are as entitled as anyone else to have the pass and use it. I do hope you never have to be so crude in describing a family member or relative or friend.

foggy_lad

emzolita wrote: »

I also got a lot of discrimination from bus drivers about having the pass, being young, and not being "disabled".. they would call me back, take the pass off me, check it, one in particular asked what I had the pass for, I was mortified.

How is a bus driver qualified to question anyone on the reasons they have free travel? Surwly only a doctor would be qualified to decide in such things and a bus driver is not entitled to ask for such personal information.

dublinstevie

foggy_lad wrote: »

Once they meet the qualifying criteria they are as entitled as anyone else to have the pass and use it. I do hope you never have to be so crude in describing a family member or relative or friend.

i do not have any family,relatives or friends with bogus passes who get on bus for nowt and then inject themselves or smoke whatever at the rear of the upper saloon.do you?

foggy_lad

dublinstevie wrote: »

i do not have any family,relatives or friends with bogus passes who get on bus for nowt and then inject themselves or smoke whatever at the rear of the upper saloon.do you?

For most of the people you describe the passes they have are not bogus but legitimately held.

If there are issues with anti-social behaviour that is something for dublin bus to address rather than blame everyone for the actions of a few.

the boss of me

foggy_lad wrote: »

How is a bus driver qualified to question anyone on the reasons they have free travel?n.

Simple answer is they aren't.. Which is why most drivers don't check passes. They leave it to the people who are employed to do it..the "inspector".
As I said in previous post the clue is in the job title "Bus driver" or "Inspector".

bigbarginhunter

What I don't get is my wife has a free travel pass for my son who has autism yet he has to pay on the bus my wife doesn't because she is his Carer. The junkies who have the pass all seem to be able to have someone with them that can get on for free! The biggest thing that annoys me is watching them going up and down the quays on the bus dealing to each other it's a joke. It should be enforced a lot more.

AltAccount

foggy_lad wrote: »

You are mistaken. It is not for life!

Like every other social welfare payment if your circumstances change you are obliged to inform the department and return the pass if required.

I think this is very fair. It's important to operate a scheme like this on the honour system. These are decent and honest people and I'm sure they can be trusted to return the pass as soon as they no longer need it.

foggy_lad wrote: »

You will always know when a bus driver gets on a bus with the family on a Sunday afternoon as they are pushed on past the driver while daddy stays to have a chat.

I think this is a very good point. It's important to point out that bus drivers are regularly abusing the privilege of their position and providing free travel to friends and relatives. These are not decent or honest people and it needs to be pointed out that they cannot be trusted and need an eye kept on them.

foggy_lad wrote: »

Those people could well be carers for a family member; relative or neighbour and entitled to free teavel because of that.

Quick question - should a carer/family member be in the company of the caree when travelling on the pass (or travelling to/from them), or is the pass made available for use in all circumstances?

foggy_lad

the boss of me wrote: »

Simple answer is they aren't.. Which is why most drivers don't check passes. They leave it to the people who are employed to do it..the "inspector".
As I said in previous post the clue is in the job title "Bus driver" or "Inspector".

But surely part of a drivers duties is to check that passes presented are actually passes and not beermats or bits of cornflakes box. No wonder there is so much fraud if that is the attitude and practice of transport staff.


To answer your question AltAccount, afaik a carer can use the pass issued to them the same as all other passes. At any time and without being accompanied by the person/people they care for. Even those employeed as carers by large companys who do contract work for the hse and might only spend 30minutes with their clients once or twice a week are entitled to their free travel passes

dublinstevie

What a bunch o fannys.get a life

monument

dublinstevie wrote: »

What a bunch o fannys.get a life

You'll be getting a long ban if you post like this again.

AltAccount

foggy_lad wrote: »

To answer your question AltAccount, afaik a carer can use the pass issued to them the same as all other passes. At any time and without being accompanied by the person/people they care for. Even those employeed as carers by large companys who do contract work for the hse and might only spend 30minutes with their clients once or twice a week are entitled to their free travel passes

Do you not think that's an absolute abuse of the system?

There's enough of a perception of "free travel pass scroungers" around at the moment without people abusing the concession granted to them to help care for others.

foggy_lad

AltAccount wrote: »

Do you not think that's an absolute abuse of the system?

There's enough of a perception of "free travel pass scroungers" around at the moment without people abusing the concession granted to them to help care for others.

Yes in a way it is but we must also remember that most carers are family members who don't get paid apart from the free travel for all the work they do and they also save the state millions by keeping their elderly or infirm relatives out of residential care.

sunbeam

foggy_lad wrote: »

Yes in a way it is but we must also remember that most carers are family members who don't get paid apart from the free travel for all the work they do and they also save the state millions by keeping their elderly or infirm relatives out of residential care.

Only carers receiving Carers allowance- a means tested payment-are entitled to a travel pass in their own right. While some may be able to work for a few hours a week, others, as I was may be caring 24/7 and use their pass very rarely.

I remember having the face eaten off me for using it by two random biddies once as I 'didn't look disabled and was scamming the system'. I hadn't left the house for the previous three months, spending 20 hour days caring for my severely disabled mum and was on the way to a well overdue dental appoinment-hardly swanning around the country at my leisure. The only real use I got out of the pass was during my mum's final two months in hospital, where it saved me over 120 euro per week and I am very grateful for that. My mum never got to use her pass as our one bus per day wasn't accessible to her.

I'm now on disability allowance for a debilitating longterm illness but to the random bystander I probably don't look disabled. I can't drive due to taking highly sedating medication As our one remaining daily bus eireann service leaves at 8.30am at gets back at 8pm, I rarely use it as I find the the long days absolutely exhausting. I'm still very grateful for the pass though.

I agree that fraud control should be tightened and will be glad when photo ID is incorporated in the pass. I'd also be happy to pay a nominal fee for the service. But after working and paying my taxes for so many years, saving the state over half a million euro (at a conservative estimate) as a family carer and unfortuantely becoming ill, it irks me that some people would still class me as a scrounger.

AlekSmart

foggy_lad wrote: »

How is a bus driver qualified to question anyone on the reasons they have free travel? Surwly only a doctor would be qualified to decide in such things and a bus driver is not entitled to ask for such personal information.

Foggy_Lad: But surely part of a drivers duties is to check that passes presented are actually passes and not beermats or bits of cornflakes box. No wonder there is so much fraud if that is the attitude and practice of transport staff.

Which is it to be ?

Earlier on you berate Busdrivers for their lack of application and interest in checking passes......Yet now when you learn of just that situation,you find it objectionable.. ?

AlekSmart

foggy_lad wrote: »

You will always know when a bus driver gets on a bus with the family on a Sunday afternoon as they are pushed on past the driver while daddy stays to have a chat.

I decided to revisit the above post,as I feel it is objectionable....as a Busdriver myself I have never adopted this,nor in over 20 years have I had it played out on any service I have driven.

The reality,Foggy_Lad,is that you have absolutely no grounds for this comment,save perhaps,for a myopic desire to make snide and deprecating comments about a particular group of workers.

I note that you regularly take issue with posters who raise legitimate questions concerning misuse of DSP Free Travel Scheme facilities,yet you feel free to continually make direct accusations against a specific group of workers.

dublinstevie

AlekSmart wrote: »

I decided to revisit the above post,as I feel it is objectionable....as a Busdriver myself I have never adopted this,nor in over 20 years have I had it played out on any service I have driven.

The reality,Foggy_Lad,is that you have absolutely no grounds for this comment,save perhaps,for a myopic desire to make snide and deprecating comments about a particular group of workers.

I note that you regularly take issue with posters who raise legitimate questions concerning misuse of DSP Free Travel Scheme facilities,yet you feel free to continually make direct accusations against a specific group of workers.

Well said

AlekSmart

sunbeam wrote: »

I'm now on disability allowance for a debilitating longterm illness but to the random bystander I probably don't look disabled. I can't drive due to taking highly sedating medication As our one remaining daily bus eireann service leaves at 8.30am at gets back at 8pm, I rarely use it as I find the the long days absolutely exhausting. I'm still very grateful for the pass though.

I agree that fraud control should be tightened and will be glad when photo ID is incorporated in the pass. I'd also be happy to pay a nominal fee for the service. But after working and paying my taxes for so many years, saving the state over half a million euro (at a conservative estimate) as a family carer and unfortuantely becoming ill, it irks me that some people would still class me as a scrounger.

I do hope Sunbeam,that you don't take my views as being in any way reflective on DSP FT Scheme members such as yourself.

The reality,which is only slowly dawning,is that the current DSP interpretation of the Free Travel Scheme cannot be sustained any longer.

The funding is not there.
There is No Money.

The reality for over two decades,is that successive Governments have kicked the can down the road,until today we have run out of that road.

For every meritorious individual such as Sunbeam,the system is carrying several more who'se entitlement to Free Travel is far less merited.

This imbalance of numbers has now reached critical mass,making remedial action now unavoidable.

The joint working review group has already been examining the issue,using the most up-to-date statistics available which in part,explains the Dáil Committee's interest in just what Statistics the Department itself was using.

The actual DSP Scheme itself is Non-Statutory,which in effect means it is NOT an entitlement.

It is a Concession,and always has been a Concession.

Equally,it also allows a Minister to end or amend the scheme without any reference to the Dáil or even the Cabinet itself.

However,Irish politics being what it is,we can expect at least some semblance of debate before the major changes are made.

I expect the first alteration will be the removal of automatic spousal entitlement,followed or accompanied by,a significant reduction in the numbers of Pass-Holders entitled to a Companion.

The question of whether or not to introduce an across-the-board DSP "Contribution" is still under discussion,however my understanding is that there is not much enthusiasm from either DSP or Operators on this.

There is also a view,being put forward,that given the capabilities of the New DSP ID Card itself,a more individualistic Free Travel entitlement could be maintained for all current recipients under a new format,with for example some recipients having a only Urban Travel,or only Free on particular days/times etc.

The reality is that the new DSP Chipped Card allows for a far more focused approach to be adopted than the "Cornflakes Box" ever could.

At the end of the day I would see our revised Free Travel Scheme becoming far more like the Northern Irish concessionary scheme,and it should also be borne in mind that both Juristictions already share significant data between each other.

http://www.nidirect.gov.uk/free-bus-travel-and-concessions

Only one thing is certain,and that is the approach of Change.

Mrs OBumble

AlekSmart wrote: »

I decided to revisit the above post,as I feel it is objectionable....as a Busdriver myself I have never adopted this,nor in over 20 years have I had it played out on any service I have driven.

Alek, in fairness, I'm the first one to defend bus-drivers ... but I have seen the practice mentioned more than a few times.