Non-paying passengers on Dublin Bus

Jellybaby1

I've noticed a lot of passengers flashing a whiteish coloured card at the driver and not paying a fare. I buy tickets and it didn't resemble those. Does anyone know if this is for the unemployed or medical card holders? The passengers were all ages and none of them were disabled. Last week on one journey there were at least 6-8 passengers I witnessed with the card. I'm not a begrudger but wondered if any of my family members were missing out on some benefit they don't know about.

foggy_lad

Jellybaby1 wrote: »

I've noticed a lot of passen
ers flashing a whiteish coloured card at the driver and not paying a fare. I buy tickets and it didn't resemble those. Does anyone know if this is for the unemployed or medical card holders? The passengers were all ages and none of them were disabled. Last week on one journey there were at least 6-8 passengers I witnessed with the card. I'm not a begrudger but wondered if any of my family members were missing out on some benefit they don't know about.

All you need to know about the free travel pass is here

http://www.welfare.ie/en/Pages/780_Free-Travel.aspx

petemm

Most likely a BEER MAT.
Was told by a driver there are so many different types of tickets out there that he did not not know what was been waved by passengers when they get on half the time.There is even a ESB free travel pass.

foggy_lad

petemm wrote: »

Most likely a BEER MAT.
Was told by a driver there are so many different types of tickets out there that he did not not know what was been waved by passengers when they get on half the time.There is even a ESB free travel pass.

Why would a driver allow a passenger travel free on production of a beer mat? Surely it is up to the driver to make sure passengers have the correct ticket or pass before they can travel?

There is an ESB travel pass but that is paid for by the ESB and not the DSP although it all comes out of the Taxpayers purse

the boss of me

foggy_lad wrote: »

Why would a driver allow a passenger travel free on production of a beer mat? Surely it is up to the driver to make sure passengers have the correct ticket or pass before they can travel?

The clue is in the job title "bus driver" ..their job is to drive the bus. There is another grade called inspectors... Guess what their job is ?

corktina

the boss of me wrote: »

The clue is in the job title "bus driver" ..their job is to drive the bus. There is another grade called inspectors... Guess what their job is ?

Not true, part of their job is collecting fares and checking passes (obviously). Inspectors are there to check on the Drivers (amongst other things)

the boss of me

corktina wrote: »

Not true, part of their job is collecting fares and checking passes (obviously). Inspectors are there to check on the Drivers (amongst other things)

Yes obviously it is up to the driver to issue tickets but they are not obliged to check or handle passes (although many do) that is the inspectors job.

foggy_lad

the boss of me wrote: »

Yes obviously it is up to the driver to issue tickets but they are not obliged to check or handle passes (although many do) that is the inspectors job.

Oh so now they must take fares but don't have to handle or examine passes? Care to link or provide anything to back this up? Does this include prepaid tickets and leap cards??

RobbingBandit

Jellybaby1 wrote: »

I've noticed a lot of passengers flashing a whiteish coloured card at the driver and not paying a fare. I buy tickets and it didn't resemble those. Does anyone know if this is for the unemployed or medical card holders? The passengers were all ages and none of them were disabled. Last week on one journey there were at least 6-8 passengers I witnessed with the card. I'm not a begrudger but wondered if any of my family members were missing out on some benefit they don't know about.

How on earth would you know if any of these people were disabled or not, the people in question weren't in wheelchairs or something, look up intellectually disabled it may educate you.:mad:

Jellybaby1

RobbingBandit wrote: »

How on earth would you know if any of these people were disabled or not, the people in question weren't in wheelchairs or something, look up intellectually disabled it may educate you.:mad:

I don't need 'educating' - no need for that remark. I have three disabled people, two intellectually disabled, and one physically disabled, in my family, so I would know.

This thread has gone all over the place. Does anyone else know what the white cards are? I was on the bus again today and there it was again, large, white and in plastic cover.

foggy_lad

Jellybaby1 wrote: »

I don't need 'educating' - no need for that remark. I have three disabled people, two intellectually disabled, and one physically disabled, in my family, so I would know.

This thread has gone all over the place. Does anyone else know what the white cards are? I was on the bus again today and there it was again, large, white and in plastic cover.

THis is a free travel pass as they currently exist With Photopass and


Without Photopass


Here you will find all you need to know about the free travel scheme.

Fred Swanson

This post has been deleted.

Jellybaby1

Can't say for sure if those pics are of the same card. Anyway thank you for the helpful replies.

RobbingBandit

Jellybaby1 wrote: »

I don't need 'educating' - no need for that remark. I have three disabled people, two intellectually disabled, and one physically disabled, in my family, so I would know.

This thread has gone all over the place. Does anyone else know what the white cards are? I was on the bus again today and there it was again, large, white and in plastic cover.

Sorry for any offence, if your family members or even you speak to your GP or local social welfare office they can advise if they are entitled to the card, I have one myself for numerous reasons.

richardjjd

I wonder would it be a Dublin Bus / CIE staff travel pass?

Jellybaby1

RobbingBandit wrote: »

Sorry for any offence, if your family members or even you speak to your GP or local social welfare office they can advise if they are entitled to the card, I have one myself for numerous reasons.

OK.

richardjjd wrote: »

I wonder would it be a Dublin Bus / CIE staff travel pass?

I never thought of that!

Guys, this was just an enquiry due to observing what happens on the bus. Three-quarters of my family are unemployed and finding things a bit tight right now and I wondered if they had missed something that might help. However, Richardjjd may have hit the nail on the head here.

jd

Fred Swanson wrote: »

This post has been deleted.

Is that the one the junkies would have?

the boss of me

richardjjd wrote: »

I wonder would it be a Dublin Bus / CIE staff travel pass?

No it wouldn't. Employees are issued with a small smartcard similar to the prepaid tickets.

Jellybaby1

The mystery thickens. What about employees' family members?

the boss of me

Jellybaby1 wrote: »

The mystery thickens. What about employees' family members?

What about them ??? They pay just like anyone else.

Jellybaby1

the boss of me wrote: »

What about them ??? They pay just like anyone else.

Makes sense that a bus driver's spouse would be allowed to travel free just wondered if they would be issued with something different to the employee. I've just remembered something....I'm sure Aer Lingus staff also have such a benefit for their families. And when I say I'm sure, I mean, I'm sure.

the boss of me

Jellybaby1 wrote: »

Makes sense that a bus driver's spouse would be allowed to travel free just wondered if they would be issued with something different to the employee. I've just remembered something....I'm sure Aer Lingus staff also have such a benefit for their families. And when I say I'm sure, I mean, I'm sure.

Well it may make sense but the reality it that there is no free pass for spouse or family.. as I said, they pay full whack.

foggy_lad

the boss of me wrote: »

Well it may make sense but the reality it that there is no free pass for spouse or family.. as I said, they pay full whack.

You will always know when a bus driver gets on a bus with the family on a Sunday afternoon as they are pushed on past the driver while daddy stays to have a chat.

ElleEm

Jellybaby1 wrote: »

I've noticed a lot of passengers flashing a whiteish coloured card at the driver and not paying a fare. I buy tickets and it didn't resemble those. Does anyone know if this is for the unemployed or medical card holders? The passengers were all ages and none of them were disabled. Last week on one journey there were at least 6-8 passengers I witnessed with the card. I'm not a begrudger but wondered if any of my family members were missing out on some benefit they don't know about.

Jellybaby1 wrote: »

I don't need 'educating' - no need for that remark. I have three disabled people, two intellectually disabled, and one physically disabled, in my family, so I would know.

This thread has gone all over the place. Does anyone else know what the white cards are? I was on the bus again today and there it was again, large, white and in plastic cover.

What ridiculous comments! Just cos you know people with certain types of disabilities does not mean you have a sixth sense to who has and hasn't got them!

I don't look disabled most days, but it doesn't take away from the fact that I am. I am in reciept of Invalidity Pension, so got a free travel pass which allows me and a companion to travel free of charge. It's a cardboard pass but you have to get a CIE photo ID card which is credit card sized and white. Maybe this was it.

petemm

it seem to me the problem with the free travel pass is that once you get one you have it for life.
man age 20 suffers from depression gets on disability and gets a free travel pass.
5 years later same man recovers gets married and has children, fantastic job, everything in life is perfect, life gets better everyday, no sigh of depression.
he still has the free travel pass for him and the wife.
that is wrong,it should be reviewed every few years to see if the person should have it.

foggy_lad

petemm wrote: »

it seem to me the problem with the free travel pass is that once you get one you have it for life.
man age 20 suffers from depression gets on disability and gets a free travel pass.
5 years later same man recovers gets married and has children, fantastic job, everything in life is perfect, life gets better everyday, no sigh of depression.
he still has the free travel pass for him and the wife.
that is wrong,it should be reviewed every few years to see if the person should have it.

You are mistaken. It is not for life!

Like every other social welfare payment if your circumstances change you are obliged to inform the department and return the pass if required.

cold case

My son is a third level student who buys a "city and suburbs" ticket for €71.50 per month.

petemm

foggy_lad wrote: »

You are mistaken. It is not for life!

Like every other social welfare payment if your circumstances change you are obliged to inform the department and return the pass if required.

in what parallel world do you live in.
just look at the amount of people wearing uniforms from there jobs(shop workers) who use the free travel pass everyday.
if they have a job how can they have a social welfare free travel pass?
when there circumstances change who enforces the return of the pass?
its only a bit of paper they can say they lost it if asked to return it.
it is wide open to abuse, only people who should have it are OAP"s.

AlekSmart

foggy_lad wrote: »

You will always know when a bus driver gets on a bus with the family on a Sunday afternoon as they are pushed on past the driver while daddy stays to have a chat.

Any other illuminating observations Foggy ?

AlekSmart

foggy_lad wrote: »

You are mistaken. It is not for life!
Like every other social welfare payment if your circumstances change you are obliged to inform the department and return the pass if required.

The poster is quite correct,as the document as issued by the DSP has no expiry date.

The requirement is on a qualifying person to inform the department of a change in circumstances.

I feel sure you will have access to data confirming the rate of such Free Travel documents being surrendered on the demise or otherwise of their holders ?

The Department of Social Protection itself appears somewhat uncertain of the exact figures,so if you have them...fire away ?

AlekSmart

Jellybaby1 wrote: »

OK.

Guys, this was just an enquiry due to observing what happens on the bus. Three-quarters of my family are unemployed and finding things a bit tight right now and I wondered if they had missed something that might help. However, Richardjjd may have hit the nail on the head here.

Richardjjd,it is highly unlikely that the document you see being presented is anything other than a DSP Pass.

Very few of the DSP documents remain in their issued stste for long,as they are about the most unweildy and arkward shaped Travel Document imaginable.

Many people simply fold them into quarter size,whilst a sizable number simply use the Photo-ID card on its own,whilst lending the other part to another family member to use as they see fit.

The Photo ID card has an endorsement written on the back which states it cannot be used for travel without the accompanying Free Travel Pass,however most holders appear to have serious difficulty comprehending this and will react with great indignation if challenged.

Victor

foggy_lad wrote: »

There is an ESB travel pass but that is paid for by the ESB and not the DSP although it all comes out of the Taxpayers purse

Something else to add to Leap Card.

AlekSmart

petemm wrote: »

in what parallel world do you live in.
just look at the amount of people wearing uniforms from there jobs(shop workers) who use the free travel pass everyday.
if they have a job how can they have a social welfare free travel pass?
when there circumstances change who enforces the return of the pass?
its only a bit of paper they can say they lost it if asked to return it.
it is wide open to abuse, only people who should have it are OAP"s.

Incredible as it may seem,there are occasions when the DSP Free Travel Pass can be used in such circumstances.

Recipients of certain DSP bemefits may work up to 20 hours per week and continue to qualify for benefit.
If the benefit is one which carries entitlement to Free Travel,then the Pass continues to be valid.

There is no enforcement methodology in place for the return of the Free Travel Document.
Essentially the Department relies upon an Honesty based response to secure the return of documents from persons no longer eligible.

Mrs OBumble

OP, it doesn't sound like what you are seeing, but the TaxSaver ticket is white and credit-card sized.

When I get on the bus and flash the card, I always wonder if people assume that I'm using some kind of free-pass rather than a ticket which I paid for. (Admittedly I only pay about 60% of the "street value" .. but nevertheless I do pay.)

Victor

petemm wrote: »

man age 20 suffers from depression gets on disability and gets a free travel pass.

He would likely receive Illness Benefit and not a disability pension, therefore no pass.

petemm wrote: »

in what parallel world do you live in.
just look at the amount of people wearing uniforms from there jobs(shop workers) who use the free travel pass everyday.
if they have a job how can they have a social welfare free travel pass?

Perhaps because they have a disability, but still work. Do you honestly expect a blind person who works part time to drive to work?

jd

AlekSmart wrote: »

There is no enforcement methodology in place for the return of the Free Travel Document.
Essentially the Department relies upon an Honesty based response to secure the return of documents from persons no longer eligible.

Bloody Madness. I've alighted the bus at stops in a particular area in North Dublin where I've been in a (substantial) minority of non FT passengers.

Cereal Number

jd wrote: »

Bloody Madness. I've alighted the bus at stops in a particular area in North Dublin where I've been in a (substantial) minority of non FT passengers.

Well done

http://images.wikia.com/adventuretimewithfinnandjake/images/d/d7/Daily-Life-GIFs-17-Sarcastic-Clapping.gif

jd

Cereal Number wrote: »

Well done

http://images.wikia.com/adventuretimewithfinnandjake/images/d/d7/Daily-Life-GIFs-17-Sarcastic-Clapping.gif

Oh feck off. I'm having a bad hair day.

Victor

Cereal Number wrote: »

Well done

http://images.wikia.com/adventuretimewithfinnandjake/images/d/d7/Daily-Life-GIFs-17-Sarcastic-Clapping.gif

Constructive posts only please.

jd wrote: »

Oh feck off. I'm having a bad hair day.

Please don't quote images.

Moderator

foggy_lad

petemm wrote: »

in what parallel world do you live in.
just look at the amount of people wearing uniforms from there jobs(shop workers) who use the free travel pass everyday.
if they have a job how can they have a social welfare free travel pass?
when there circumstances change who enforces the return of the pass?
its only a bit of paper they can say they lost it if asked to return it.
it is wide open to abuse, only people who should have it are OAP"s.

Those people could well be carers for a family member; relative or neighbour and entitled to free teavel because of that.

Cereal Number

jd wrote: »

Oh feck off. I'm having a bad hair day.

What have you against those getting free travel??sake...

emzolita

Jellybaby1 wrote: »

I don't need 'educating' - no need for that remark. I have three disabled people, two intellectually disabled, and one physically disabled, in my family, so I would know.

This thread has gone all over the place. Does anyone else know what the white cards are? I was on the bus again today and there it was again, large, white and in plastic cover.

Not all disabilities are physical or mental. I had a pass for a while When I had really bad Epilepsy. My pass allowed have someone for free with me, as I took seizures every hour or so, I always had to be babysat.
I also got a lot of discrimination from bus drivers about having the pass, being young, and not being "disabled".. they would call me back, take the pass off me, check it, one in particular asked what I had the pass for, I was mortified.

dublinstevie

Should only be oap and disabled passes.get rid of the rest as it is being abused.the amount of junkie scum with passes is unreal

foggy_lad

dublinstevie wrote: »

Should only be oap and disabled passes.get rid of the rest as it is being abused.the amount of junkie scum with passes is unreal

Once they meet the qualifying criteria they are as entitled as anyone else to have the pass and use it. I do hope you never have to be so crude in describing a family member or relative or friend.

foggy_lad

emzolita wrote: »

I also got a lot of discrimination from bus drivers about having the pass, being young, and not being "disabled".. they would call me back, take the pass off me, check it, one in particular asked what I had the pass for, I was mortified.

How is a bus driver qualified to question anyone on the reasons they have free travel? Surwly only a doctor would be qualified to decide in such things and a bus driver is not entitled to ask for such personal information.

dublinstevie

foggy_lad wrote: »

Once they meet the qualifying criteria they are as entitled as anyone else to have the pass and use it. I do hope you never have to be so crude in describing a family member or relative or friend.

i do not have any family,relatives or friends with bogus passes who get on bus for nowt and then inject themselves or smoke whatever at the rear of the upper saloon.do you?

foggy_lad

dublinstevie wrote: »

i do not have any family,relatives or friends with bogus passes who get on bus for nowt and then inject themselves or smoke whatever at the rear of the upper saloon.do you?

For most of the people you describe the passes they have are not bogus but legitimately held.

If there are issues with anti-social behaviour that is something for dublin bus to address rather than blame everyone for the actions of a few.

the boss of me

foggy_lad wrote: »

How is a bus driver qualified to question anyone on the reasons they have free travel?n.

Simple answer is they aren't.. Which is why most drivers don't check passes. They leave it to the people who are employed to do it..the "inspector".
As I said in previous post the clue is in the job title "Bus driver" or "Inspector".

bigbarginhunter

What I don't get is my wife has a free travel pass for my son who has autism yet he has to pay on the bus my wife doesn't because she is his Carer. The junkies who have the pass all seem to be able to have someone with them that can get on for free! The biggest thing that annoys me is watching them going up and down the quays on the bus dealing to each other it's a joke. It should be enforced a lot more.

AltAccount

foggy_lad wrote: »

You are mistaken. It is not for life!

Like every other social welfare payment if your circumstances change you are obliged to inform the department and return the pass if required.

I think this is very fair. It's important to operate a scheme like this on the honour system. These are decent and honest people and I'm sure they can be trusted to return the pass as soon as they no longer need it.

foggy_lad wrote: »

You will always know when a bus driver gets on a bus with the family on a Sunday afternoon as they are pushed on past the driver while daddy stays to have a chat.

I think this is a very good point. It's important to point out that bus drivers are regularly abusing the privilege of their position and providing free travel to friends and relatives. These are not decent or honest people and it needs to be pointed out that they cannot be trusted and need an eye kept on them.

foggy_lad wrote: »

Those people could well be carers for a family member; relative or neighbour and entitled to free teavel because of that.

Quick question - should a carer/family member be in the company of the caree when travelling on the pass (or travelling to/from them), or is the pass made available for use in all circumstances?

foggy_lad

the boss of me wrote: »

Simple answer is they aren't.. Which is why most drivers don't check passes. They leave it to the people who are employed to do it..the "inspector".
As I said in previous post the clue is in the job title "Bus driver" or "Inspector".

But surely part of a drivers duties is to check that passes presented are actually passes and not beermats or bits of cornflakes box. No wonder there is so much fraud if that is the attitude and practice of transport staff.


To answer your question AltAccount, afaik a carer can use the pass issued to them the same as all other passes. At any time and without being accompanied by the person/people they care for. Even those employeed as carers by large companys who do contract work for the hse and might only spend 30minutes with their clients once or twice a week are entitled to their free travel passes