Kilkenny GAA Discussion Thread Mod Warning Post # 5885 #4894 & #5202

Grats

Rossie2014 wrote: »

Perfect title for the story of Waterford hurling

Like it!

robopaddy

pmy.murphy wrote: »

Ok I worded that very wrongly and it sounded very disrespectful, what I meant was that we have such a proud history that we shouldnt be getting hammered by Dublin in our own back yard if you were to look at where they were 10-15 years ago such a result would have been unheard at that time even Dublin to beat us. But the point im making is we dont play football here in Kilkenny, Dublin have significant resources pumped into both codes and we focus on just the one down here and everything goes into hurling so why are we getting beaten by such a margin and being so poor scoring only 3 points in our own back yard when everything goes into the one code

History means f###all or it dosent matter whose yard its in. If your good enough your good enough if your not your not. Today kk were beaten by a far superior team. Dublin are the pace setters at underage in leinster now its hard for some people to accept but thats life. Better off get behind your team instead off trying to look for excuses

robopaddy

jack o shea wrote: »

have a look at the roll of honour there in all grades robo, club and county and you will find your awnser.

Dont see what roll of honour in all grades has got to do with this minor team?

Rossie2014

robopaddy wrote: »

History means f###all or it dosent matter whose yard its in. If your good enough your good enough if your not your not. Today kk were beaten by a far superior team. Dublin are the pace setters at underage in leinster now its hard for some people to accept but thats life. Better off get behind your team instead off trying to look for excuses[/quote Dublin have been beaten by Laois and Carlow in the last two years at Under 21 leval, and by Laois in minor last year, Leinster is getting very competitive, with Wexford making an improvement and Laois, Carlow and even Kildare putting out decent teams. Offaly cant be counted out either. Hopefully this will lead to a great future for Leinster hurling which I think most Kilkenny people would be supportive off

pmy.murphy

robopaddy wrote: »

History means f###all or it dosent matter whose yard its in. If your good enough your good enough if your not your not. Today kk were beaten by a far superior team. Dublin are the pace setters at underage in leinster now its hard for some people to accept but thats life. Better off get behind your team instead off trying to look for excuses

Tradition is tradition theres no beating it. The big 3 will always be competitiors dont worry about that likes of us, Cork and Tipp. Pace Setters my hole. A Kilkenny team no matter what age group should be a match for anyone, not saying beat them but at least make your opponents work to beat us. Fair enough we got beaten by Dublin today but what your saying is you expect us to lie down and accept it. Yes we accept we were beaten by the better team today but when theres absolutely no fight, workrate or pride in the black and amber jersey shown ESPECIALLY in our home ground which is a trademark of our teams pver the years then thats another thing and thats not on. Yes we will vent our frustrations but we will always get behind our team and I know Ive done my fair share of giving out today but Ill still be supporting the lads when they play Carlow and hope they can turn it round and prove everyone wrong

Bowlardo

can someone please provide the starting team and the clubs they are from

robopaddy

Rossie2014 wrote: »

robopaddy wrote: »

History means f###all or it dosent matter whose yard its in. If your good enough your good enough if your not your not. Today kk were beaten by a far superior team. Dublin are the pace setters at underage in leinster now its hard for some people to accept but thats life. Better off get behind your team instead off trying to look for excuses[/quote Dublin have been beaten by Laois and Carlow in the last two years at Under 21 leval, and by Laois in minor last year, Leinster is getting very competitive, with Wexford making an improvement and Laois, Carlow and even Kildare putting out decent teams. Offaly cant be counted out either. Hopefully this will lead to a great future for Leinster hurling which I think most Kilkenny people would be supportive off

Agreed. I just think ye shouldnt be so hard on yere minor teams when the are beaten they are still only kids. Lads can have off days with nerves etc especially in counties like kilkenny where their always expected to go out and win. Other counties are getting stronger and stronger and thats partly as a result of the bar that was set by kk in the past. Some people need to be realistic and not coming on here slating younglads that only went out and did their best

pmy.murphy

Bowlardo wrote: »

can someone please provide the starting team and the clubs they are from

Go back 2 or 3 pages on this thread you will find the starting team and the clubs

Bowlardo

Will be putting a bet on the kk minors to win the all ireland after that....terrible result but two team in the all ireland club final....18 year olds no doubt drank sorries or celebtated and performed atrociously but have not doubt they'll come back when it matters....bit of faith people

Rossie2014

robopaddy wrote: »

Rossie2014 wrote: »

Agreed. I just think ye shouldnt be so hard on yere minor teams when the are beaten they are still only kids. Lads can have off days with nerves etc especially in counties like kilkenny where their always expected to go out and win. Other counties are getting stronger and stronger and thats partly as a result of the bar that was set by kk in the past. Some people need to be realistic and not coming on here slating younglads that only went out and did their best

Cant argue with that, and always have to remember that these are kids who are under serious pressure from exams at this time of year too.

citykat

Have to say I’m appalled at the comments of some so-called supporters on here. Was at the game yesterday and yes it wasn’t easy to watch. However, for lads to be casting aspersions and making judgements on one match is ridiculous. To also be castigating players/management who are man enough to line out for the county is unacceptable. Yes it is an honour to be selected to play for/manage your county but that does not give anybody the right to make personal attacks.

From what I saw yesterday, we just didn’t take scores yesterday. The Dublin forwards in particular their full forward line looked dangerous but were still restricted to 2-3 in the first half. Kilkenny should definitely have put more on the board in the first half. Conditions were atrocious in the first half but that’s no excuse. Kilkenny came into it from the resumption at half time. This improvement however did not translate into scores. The Dubs having managed this comeback picked it up again and started scoring. They finished the match comfortably in the end.

First of all full credit to the dubs and their supporters. We can have no complaints. They were deserving winners on the day. The ref made some bizarre calls but these had no bearing on the outcome.

I don’t believe this team are anywhere near as bad as this result suggests. I think had they taken their scores they could have gotten some momentum going. Our failure to take scores seemed to sap the confidence of the players and performance levels dipped as a result.

I have nothing but sympathy for the players and management after yesterday’s result. There’ll be nobody more hurt than them today. However this is only a setback. They have been given a lesson and now know the minimum standard required.

Finally instead of complaining and condemning the players and managers we need to move on from yesterday, learn from it and look ahead to the Carlow game.

dastardly00

^^^^^^
Great post citykat.

Realt Dearg Sec

Great post. I doubt many of those sniping and name calling on here bothered their arse going to the match. Disgraceful what's been said about people who volunteer and sacrifice so much as managers and administrators for the county, only to be insulted by anonymous trolls here. Some shameful **** written in this thread by one poster in particular, full of personal abuse and vitriol. I wonder would he give his own name so we can see what he's done for club and county that entitles him to personally insult the likes if Ned Quinn?

MajaDon

Good post CityCat. Finally, someone from Kilkenny who was at the game and shows and clearer analysis and some respect. The KK minors are a much better team than the result implies and I would not rule them out of both Leinster and AI.

On the topic of "strength and conditioning" - some people have short memories. Most of the noughties we witnessed the best ever hurling team and in all the big games the physical power and fitness of Kilkenny was identified as a key element of their success. What has happened recently is that Dublin in particular is matching this physicality. Yesterday's Dublin minors were not noticeably stronger or fitter just equally so and had more cohesiveness - probably a sign of better team preparation, which allowed some very talented youngsters to shine. KK missed a lot of scoring chances including 4 goal chances in the second half - on another day they could have scored a lot more. I don't know what happened in the Kilkenny preparations but I expect the two colleges took priority for training, meaning only a half panel available for the county minors. I would guess that this did not over worry the selectors given the back door that would give them time.

Grats

citykat wrote: »

Have to say I’m appalled at the comments of some so-called supporters on here. Was at the game yesterday and yes it wasn’t easy to watch. However, for lads to be casting aspersions and making judgements on one match is ridiculous. To also be castigating players/management who are man enough to line out for the county is unacceptable. Yes it is an honour to be selected to play for/manage your county but that does not give anybody the right to make personal attacks.

From what I saw yesterday, we just didn’t take scores yesterday. The Dublin forwards in particular their full forward line looked dangerous but were still restricted to 2-3 in the first half. Kilkenny should definitely have put more on the board in the first half. Conditions were atrocious in the first half but that’s no excuse. Kilkenny came into it from the resumption at half time. This improvement however did not translate into scores. The Dubs having managed this comeback picked it up again and started scoring. They finished the match comfortably in the end.

First of all full credit to the dubs and their supporters. We can have no complaints. They were deserving winners on the day. The ref made some bizarre calls but these had no bearing on the outcome.

I don’t believe this team are anywhere near as bad as this result suggests. I think had they taken their scores they could have gotten some momentum going. Our failure to take scores seemed to sap the confidence of the players and performance levels dipped as a result.

I have nothing but sympathy for the players and management after yesterday’s result. There’ll be nobody more hurt than them today. However this is only a setback. They have been given a lesson and now know the minimum standard required.

Finally instead of complaining and condemning the players and managers we need to move on from yesterday, learn from it and look ahead to the Carlow game.

I posted similar sentiments and as I said am looking forward to their next match. Luckily there is a back door and to some degree that's why you will get a below par performance like yesterday. It's a long minor hurling season with a break for exams. It has to be difficult as a manger to get things spot on, much as you would like to. Don't know Pat Hoban but anybody who volunteers for such a role deserves credit. Unlike the senior ranks in some counties there is no financial reward for all the effort volunteers like Pat Hoban put in.

rebel girl 15

Take a few weeks off jackoshea for continually using this thread to direct personal attacks at people, you can discuss if the management are poor but name calling is not on, not is calling for abuse of people. A number of posters have been warned already, there is no problem discussing the management, but using them for pot shots is not on.

rebel girl 15

Looking from the outside in, given the proud hurling county that KK are, this result will be a one off. No management can prepare properly with half a panel missing, and given the Dublin team being together for much longer makes it much easier.

I think its now a case where for so long Kilkenny were being held up as the development model for every other county, and now other counties have looked at it, and improved on it. It would be time to go back and re-examine the model in Kilkenny, see whats going well and what needs to be changed.

pat 22

I'm vat man all my life and honestly wished him well with minor job. But to be honest I did feer something like this happening. Pat got very Lucy to be in charge off the intermediate team when kk hurling was going good Brian Cody's second team at that time was very experienced side and easy handle . I dont blame pat for taking the job who wouldn't like the chance to manage there county at minor stage ? We all would . but this job was and is way beyond pats capability he was a good under age hurler and that's all. But why the county board gave him this big job is beyond me. If they dont addressed this at this critical stage off player's life then its a very worrying stage for kk hurling . 3points from 60 mins should say enough to the people in charge that the county with pat in charge off the minor team is going the wrong way and fast.

citykat

pat 22 wrote: »

I'm vat man all my life and honestly wished him well with minor job. But to be honest I did feer something like this happening. Pat got very Lucy to be in charge off the intermediate team when kk hurling was going good Brian Cody's second team at that time was very experienced side and easy handle . I dont blame pat for taking the job who wouldn't like the chance to manage there county at minor stage ? We all would . but this job was and is way beyond pats capability he was a good under age hurler and that's all. But why the county board gave him this big job is beyond me. If they dont addressed this at this critical stage off player's life then its a very worrying stage for kk hurling . 3points from 60 mins should say enough to the people in charge that the county with pat in charge off the minor team is going the wrong way and fast.

I don’t see how a managers own playing career has any bearing on their abilities. Sure it can help if you’ve played at the top level and even won All-Irelands. It’s not a pre-requisite however. There are managers e.g. Cyril Farrell, who had very modest playing careers but proved very successful at management. Playing and managing are polar opposite roles.

Ned Quinn is a very shrewd individual. I would be very surprised if he didn’t have full confidence in the manager/selectors before their appointment.

I think it’s very unfair to judge anybody on a one-off performance. Every team has it’s off-days. We were given a lesson yesterday. We are no further in the competition but we are still in it and can still go all the way.

northern lad

citykat wrote: »

I don’t see how a managers own playing career has any bearing on their abilities. Sure it can help if you’ve played at the top level and even won All-Irelands. It’s not a pre-requisite however. There are managers e.g. Cyril Farrell, who had very modest playing careers but proved very successful at management. Playing and managing are polar opposite roles.

Ned Quinn is a very shrewd individual. I would be very surprised if he didn’t have full confidence in the manager/selectors before their appointment.

I think it’s very unfair to judge anybody on a one-off performance. Every team has it’s off-days. We were given a lesson yesterday. We are no further in the competition but we are still in it and can still go all the way.

Agree that managing and playing are very different. Managing underage is also very different to managing adult teams. Ned is shrewd and if current set up doesn't work out, he'll need to find the best 3/4 underage manager/coach/selector in the county. We are losing ground to others at U 18

pat 22

I was asked my opinion and gave it honestly. And that would b the opinion of any hurling person u speak to from the vat. Hoban is well known to blow alot of hot air.

savannahkat

As said no disrespect to Dublin but that was a shocking Kilkenny display by any Kilkenny standards. It is all well and good to say we have a second chance and all well and good to say that if we had taken our scores it might have been different and it is all well and good to say we should respect those who play and those who take charge but it shouldnot be at the expense of honesty. The display was shocking and as such it must be seen for what it was. It is a fact that one player was thrown in after a long injury without having played a single game while another (albeit he was the only one to score from play) after playing just fifteen minutes when he came on as a sub in the colleges final. No matter how talented both are neither could have been game fit and that is where disrespect comes in disrespect for the opposition most definatly, but even more disrespectful to each and every sub. It is no way to pick a team.

adrian522

That's fine savannahkat, I think it's fine to call out a poor performance or criticise poor decisions by the management but some of the posts yesterday went way beyond that and were seriously out of order.

Also to the poster who said none of us give a f**k about the minor team, you really need to get out more, there was little or nothing to discuss at that point.

Let's realise that nobody died as a result of the match yesterday, Kilkenny are still involved in the championship, and if the result showed anything it was that Dublin continue to have their underage setup spot on, even as a Kilkenny fan I think it's a great thing that Dublin are so competitive every year.

The fact that traditionally they have not been as strong is irrelevant. That attitude stinks of arrogance to be honest. Kilkenny can't just show up with an attitude of "It's only Dublin" anymore. It looks to me like our complacency has been punished.

savannahkat

That is my whole point Adrian522. It appears that kilkenny did turn up that way and that has to be laid fair and square at the hands of the management and not the supporters .Dublin may very well go on to win the All ireland and if they do fair play to them but I am not a Dublin supporter and it is as a Kilkenny supporter I query the the apparent attitude of the Kilkenny management..

adrian522

adrian522 wrote: »

That's fine savannahkat, I think it's fine to call out a poor performance or criticise poor decisions by the management but some of the posts yesterday went way beyond that and were seriously out of order.

Also to the poster who said none of us give a f**k about the minor team, you really need to get out more, there was little or nothing to discuss at that point.

Let's realise that nobody died as a result of the match yesterday, Kilkenny are still involved in the championship, and if the result showed anything it was that Dublin continue to have their underage setup spot on, even as a Kilkenny fan I think it's a great thing that Dublin are so competitive every year.

The fact that traditionally they have not been as strong is irrelevant. That attitude stinks of arrogance to be honest. Kilkenny can't just show up with an attitude of "It's only Dublin" anymore. It looks to me like our complacency has been punished.

savannahkat wrote: »

That is my whole point Adrian522. It appears that kilkenny did turn up that way and that has to be laid fair and square at the hands of the management and not the supporters .Dublin may very well go on to win the All ireland and if they do fair play to them but I am not a Dublin supporter and it is as a Kilkenny supporter I query the the apparent attitude of the Kilkenny management..

Surely though Kilkenny wouldn't have that attitude at this stage? I mean its not as if Dublin have only emerged the other day. They have been at least equal to if not better than Kilkenny at minors for a couple of years now.

I dont know much about the Kilkenny management at minor tbh and its probably too early to cast judgement but since Richie Mulrooney left to take the u21 i notice they haven't had the same calibre of youngster at minor level. Now it might be a player issue rather than a management one but Mulrooney seems to have similar hallmarks to Cody in his blueprint of how he likes his teams to play the game.

Its early in the season and it could be just the wake-up call they need to kick-start the year but the manner of the defeat was bizarre and un-Kilkenny like to say the least.

Grats

Pat Hoban is manager, he's not the coach. The team didn't look very fit, hardly the sole fault of the manager! The players first touch was poor, hardly the managers fault! It was one of those days and a complete over reaction to it here. I believe the coach is a full time county coach with huge experience. Surely he and the rest of the management team must be as mystified as the rest of us.

There is little doubt but that Dublin have improved immensely over recent years. They are clearly a well conditioned team and while this has enabled them to steamroll our players in recent times they still haven't managed the breakthrough at All Ireland level. They will win a title some day soon but presently they don't appear to have all that it takes to win an All Ireland.

I mentioned previously that we have to decide whether to concentrate on more conditioning for our players at 16/17 or delay it until the players physique is ready for such a regime. Padraig Walsh and Cillian Buckley, to mention just two, were very scrawny at minor level. It is only this year that they have started to develop physically. Brian Kennedy and John Power are also starting to bulk up.

So the question is, do we delay the conditioning regime at the expense of not winning minor titles or do he go all out with young players at the age of 16 or even less? That is a decision for the county board, not the manager, not the team coach, not the squads coaches, not any one individual.

MajaDon

Grats wrote: »

Pat Hoban is manager, he's not the coach. The team didn't look very fit, hardly the sole fault of the manager! The players first touch was poor, hardly the managers fault! It was one of those days and a complete over reaction to it here. I believe the coach is a full time county coach with huge experience. Surely he and the rest of the management team must be as mystified as the rest of us.

There is little doubt but that Dublin have improved immensely over recent years. They are clearly a well conditioned team and while this has enabled them to steamroll our players in recent times they still haven't managed the breakthrough at All Ireland level. They will win a title some day soon but presently they don't appear to have all that it takes to win an All Ireland.

I mentioned previously that we have to decide whether to concentrate on more conditioning for our players at 16/17 or delay it until the players physique is ready for such a regime. Padraig Walsh and Cillian Buckley, to mention just two, were very scrawny at minor level. It is only this year that they have started to develop physically. Brian Kennedy and John Power are also starting to bulk up.

So the question is, do we delay the conditioning regime at the expense of not winning minor titles or do he go all out with young players at the age of 16 or even less? That is a decision for the county board, not the manager, not the team coach, not the squads coaches, not any one individual.

That's the sort of intelligent and informed comment I come on here for.

Fort Stranger

Jesus you don't want young lads of 16-17 on mad weights programmes and drinking pints of Creatine, teenagers are highly strung enough and cranky without that. If that's the way counties are going to win minor titles then let them off! The likes of Padraic Walsh and John Power are "filling out" as we used to call it, at the right age 21-22. If we have to catch up at Senior level at the expense of under age titles then we will, but concentrate on the hurling skills as we always have and then let them develop in to strong men when their bodies are ready!

Grats

Fort Stranger wrote: »

Jesus you don't want young lads of 16-17 on mad weights programmes and drinking pints of Creatine, teenagers are highly strung enough and cranky without that. If that's the way counties are going to win minor titles then let them off! The likes of Padraic Walsh and John Power are "filling out" as we used to call it, at the right age 21-22. If we have to catch up at Senior level at the expense of under age titles then we will, but concentrate on the hurling skills as we always have and then let them develop in to strong men when their bodies are ready!

Precisely. Now let the discussion move along those lines expressed above. The managers are managing the resources at their disposal. If we want to change the method of developing those resources lets discuss it. More importantly, let our county board inform us of their thinking.

dastardly00

Fort Stranger wrote: »

Jesus you don't want young lads of 16-17 on mad weights programmes and drinking pints of Creatine, teenagers are highly strung enough and cranky without that. If that's the way counties are going to win minor titles then let them off! The likes of Padraic Walsh and John Power are "filling out" as we used to call it, at the right age 21-22. If we have to catch up at Senior level at the expense of under age titles then we will, but concentrate on the hurling skills as we always have and then let them develop in to strong men when their bodies are ready!

My sentiments entirely!