Kilkenny GAA Discussion Thread Mod Warning Post # 5885 #4894 & #5202

droppingball

James Owens selected to referee the league final, there is another match ruined with players not knowing which way frees are going and inconsistent decisions.

I thought the referees were good last sunday it has to be said. Owens is very fussy and tends to make bizarre calls.

Grats

premierstone wrote: »

Agree totally and remember it took them a replay to beat Wexford prior to that, they have wonderfully talented players but are far far from the finished article.

And there is no way in hell they weren't trying to win on Sunday, first of all it is Tipp and any Clare player that says they don't want to beat Tipp at every given opportunity is a liar, secondly they haven't actually won a league for 35 odd years and thirdly just have a look back at the body language of Davy and tell me he wasn't bothered about it!

Clare had a very distinctive style of hurling last year and it became effective as they mastered it, but as Tipp discovered in 2011 you need to evolve and having one very distinctive style of play will not cut it, especially with someone like Cody around, all the other teams have basically had the last 6 months to think about how to counteract what Clare were doing last year, they will need to vary it somewhat, because if they dont then the likes of Tony Kewlly will not get the room he did last year.[/quote


I agree entirely with the above and the previous post. Davy was behaving like a lunatic last Sun, hardly a sign he didn't care! Indeed the most relaxed manager in Limerick was Cody and we all know his will to win.

I've referred to it before and it was obvious again last Sun, Clare players over carry quite a lot. They need to do this in order to build up the momentum that allows them move at speed. Sooner or later refs will cop on to this.

Tipp had their homework done and dealt with the Clare style admirably. I know summer hurling will be different but from here on every team will test Clare and going will be tougher this year. Interesting times ahead!

citykat

Agree with Grats et al. Clare wanted to win on Sun. They picked a full team; warmed up as normal; contested every ball; protested every perceived wrong call from the ref; the little man himself was at the ref from the word go. If they were throwing that game they concealed it magnificently.

To me they looked like a bunch of headless chickens. The FB was taking the puck out, soloing to the halfway line and running straight into a wall of Tipp men. IMO they were very fortunate to defeat a poor Cork team in the AI. They rode the crest of an emotional wave last year. They,re gonna need something more substantial this year to retain the title.

citykat

droppingball wrote: »

James Owens selected to referee the league final, there is another match ruined with players not knowing which way frees are going and inconsistent decisions.

I thought the referees were good last sunday it has to be said. Owens is very fussy and tends to make bizarre calls.

Wouldn't concur about refs on Sun. Thought McGrath got some calls wrong for both sides. Then seemed to try make it up by blowing the next ball regardless of merit.

Would concur on Owens though. Not up to IC std at all viz Waterford last year.

Toblerone1978

citykat wrote: »

Agree with Grats et al. Clare wanted to win on Sun. They picked a full team; warmed up as normal; contested every ball; protested every perceived wrong call from the ref; the little man himself was at the ref from the word go. If they were throwing that game they concealed it magnificently.

To me they looked like a bunch of headless chickens. The FB was taking the puck out, soloing to the halfway line and running straight into a wall of Tipp men. IMO they were very fortunate to defeat a poor Cork team in the AI. They rode the crest of an emotional wave last year. They,re gonna need something more substantial this year to retain the title.

I don't think posters are suggesting Clare threw the match. Rather they didn't taper down in training for the days leading to the match; basically trained as normal and didn't give any real allowance to the match. The Clare lads has pace to burn which wasn't there on Sunday - that is probably due to the legs being tired rather than Clare having a bad day or Tipp hurled them out of it (which they did ).

citykat

Toblerone1978 wrote: »

I don't think posters are suggesting Clare threw the match. Rather they didn't taper down in training for the days leading to the match; basically trained as normal and didn't give any real allowance to the match. The Clare lads has pace to burn which wasn't there on Sunday - that is probably due to the legs being tired rather than Clare having a bad day or Tipp hurled them out of it (which they did ).

This 'running the legs' off players is often cited in mitigation of a losing performance. I don't buy it. I can't imagine any physical trainer advocating such an approach. Running the legs off lads leads to one thing, injury. Clare for whatever reason, possibly psychological, were beaten by a better team on Sun.
In addition to some incredible individual performances, they got the rub of the green last year. They're unlikely to be as fortunate this year. Worthy champions at least aspire to retain their title otherwise they're just one offs. Look at Tipp.

droppingball

I believe that the clare players wanted to win and that davy believed they could win by sitting back deep with a sweeper and still win.

I also believe that clare are all systems and it is very regimented and slow in their build up with kelly and podge collins and o donnell left to play the off the cuff stuff. I think he decided to leave donnellan sweeping and not to play the system they developed late on in the year last year that actually won them the all ireland purely not to show his hand.

So what I think happened was they went at it as normal trying to win and davy held them back unbeknowns to the players obviously with a restrictive game plan.

I think its foolish as you cant turn it on and off and a game plan needs fine tuning. But that is Davy for ya.

A high workrate which we have with physicality to stop them breaking tackles, a sprinkling of pace at the back which we are working on and taking your chances which we are well capable of and this clare team will be beaten. I think we are well equipped even if we have dropped from our high standards.

savannahkat

HoganStand
Hoban expecting "big, big challenge"
24 April 2014
Pat Hoban expects Dublin to put it up to his Kilkenny minor hurling team this weekend.The Cats open the defence of their Leinster MHC crown against the Dubs in Nowlan Park on Saturday afternoon and Hoban knows it'll be a tricky tie: "We were lucky enough to see Dublin play Wexford in the championship this year," he told The Kilkenny People. "They have a big, strong, physical team, with many of last year's side still eligible. They'll be up there at the top challenging for honours."The reality of hurling in Dublin means that they are going to have a very good minor side every year from now on, which is good for the game.
"It'll be a big, big challenge for us, but if we can get things right on the field it'll take a good team to beat us.

That tells us a lot about our minor team. It must be a state secret who the panel are but I suppose we will be told tonight.

TheBomber14

tipp will be shown up for what they really are come the league final. Seamus callinan, john o dwyer, mcgrath etc. Lovely loose ball wristy hurlers, dont want to mix it if u put it up to them. I can see the kilkenny backs atin them alive as usual. Clare wanted to lose that semi final sure, the dog on the street knows that. davy didnt give a **** whether he lost or won that game, he has said since that loss that his preperations will be better this way anyway.

premierstone

TheBomber14 wrote: »

tipp will be shown up for what they really are come the league final. Seamus callinan, john o dwyer, mcgrath etc. Lovely loose ball wristy hurlers, dont want to mix it if u put it up to them. I can see the kilkenny backs atin them alive as usual. Clare wanted to lose that semi final sure, the dog on the street knows that. davy didnt give a **** whether he lost or won that game, he has said since that loss that his preperations will be better this way anyway.

Your analysis is as always spot on to be fair Bomber, agree 100% infact if KK don't win by at least a point a man I will be shocked.

savannahkat

That league final last year the atmosphere surrounding it and again the whole razamataz with the qualifier game between us drained both teams. I am not so sure it is even a good thing for either team to be contesting this final against each other. The innate rivalry has become some-what unhealthy. For that simple reason I would much prefer to face Clare than Tipp in this final. I would rate Tipp as the biggest challengers to Kilkenny this year with Galway ahead of both Clare, Dublin and Cork and would if we had to meet Tipp prefer if it were in September. As I said I think the whole Kilkenny/Tipp thing is becoming unhealthy with too high a percentage of both teams supporters losing sight of the axiom of respecting your opponent.

premierstone

savannahkat wrote: »

That league final last year the atmosphere surrounding it and again the whole razamataz with the qualifier game between us drained both teams. I am not so sure it is even a good thing for either team to be contesting this final against each other. The innate rivalry has become some-what unhealthy. For that simple reason I would much prefer to face Clare than Tipp in this final. I would rate Tipp as the biggest challengers to Kilkenny this year with Galway ahead of both Clare, Dublin and Cork and would if we had to meet Tipp prefer if it were in September. As I said I think the whole Kilkenny/Tipp thing is becoming unhealthy with too high a percentage of both teams supporters losing sight of the axiom of respecting your opponent.

Very true, my hope would be though that last years relative failure for both teams has brought a little perspective to both camps and also they both realise now that they can't simply worry about each other exclusively, there is realistically 7 or 8 teams all capable of beating each other, another factor aswell is that there are even more of the old faces that will be missing, alot of the players involved weren't really part of that rivarly that built up and as you allude to spilt over at times, both on and off the pitch.

TheBomber14

premierstone wrote: »

Your analysis is as always spot on to be fair Bomber, agree 100% infact if KK don't win by at least a point a man I will be shocked.

trying ur best to undermine me here now in front of the other posters. We will see who is laughing after the league final, after u have to eat ur words, right after the kk backs eat the windy tipp forwards.

premierstone

TheBomber14 wrote: »

trying ur best to undermine me here now in front of the other posters. We will see who is laughing after the league final, after u have to eat ur words, right after the kk backs eat the windy tipp forwards.

I agreed with your verdict Im not sure what the issue is or how you are going to show me up when/if what we both predict comes through

What words exactly are you going to make me eat?

Grats

TheBomber14 wrote: »

trying ur best to undermine me here now in front of the other posters. We will see who is laughing after the league final, after u have to eat ur words, right after the kk backs eat the windy tipp forwards.

And how will Waterford handle the "windy" Tipp forwards when ye meet in Munster?

Grats

savannahkat wrote: »

That league final last year the atmosphere surrounding it and again the whole razamataz with the qualifier game between us drained both teams. I am not so sure it is even a good thing for either team to be contesting this final against each other. The innate rivalry has become some-what unhealthy. For that simple reason I would much prefer to face Clare than Tipp in this final. I would rate Tipp as the biggest challengers to Kilkenny this year with Galway ahead of both Clare, Dublin and Cork and would if we had to meet Tipp prefer if it were in September. As I said I think the whole Kilkenny/Tipp thing is becoming unhealthy with too high a percentage of both teams supporters losing sight of the axiom of respecting your opponent.[/quote

Certain truth in what you say. Kilkenny were coming off a double All Ireland the previous year which extended the inter county year into October and then they had a bunch of club games to get through. Under the circumstances they did exceptionally well in winning the league. However that and the long hurling year previously took its toll, mainly through injuries. Can't explain Tipps failure last year though.

savannahkat

I wonder what the make up of the team for the final will be. I would expect at least 7 changes from the starting 15 we put out in the league series which was,
David Herity,
Willie Phelan, Kieran Joyce, Brian Kennedy,
Joey Holden, Brian Hogan, Tommy Walsh
Lester Ryan, Padraig Walsh,
Walter Walsh,Colin Fennelly, Henry Shefflin
Jonjo Farrell, Mark Kelly, TJ Reid.

Grats

savannahkat wrote: »

I wonder what the make up of the team for the final will be. I would expect at least 7 changes from the starting 15 we put out in the league series which was,
David Herity,
Willie Phelan, Kieran Joyce, Brian Kennedy,
Joey Holden, Brian Hogan, Tommy Walsh
Lester Ryan, Padraig Walsh,
Walter Walsh,Colin Fennelly, Henry Shefflin
Jonjo Farrell, Mark Kelly, TJ Reid.

When I started reading your post I wondered about SEVEN changes! But looking down through the team I could see while we had five of the forwards that started last Sun we only had three from 1 to 9. The jigsaw is almost complete, you can see the steady progress over the last few months. Great credit due to all concerned for reaching a league final while carrying out serious experimenting. Every player played their part by challenging for a starting position and putting pressure on each other.

I expect Tipp to win the final as our experimenting may not be finished just yet. That's not to suggest that the team won't try their best to retain the title.

pmy.murphy

savannahkat wrote: »

HoganStand
Hoban expecting "big, big challenge"
24 April 2014
Pat Hoban expects Dublin to put it up to his Kilkenny minor hurling team this weekend.The Cats open the defence of their Leinster MHC crown against the Dubs in Nowlan Park on Saturday afternoon and Hoban knows it'll be a tricky tie: "We were lucky enough to see Dublin play Wexford in the championship this year," he told The Kilkenny People. "They have a big, strong, physical team, with many of last year's side still eligible. They'll be up there at the top challenging for honours."The reality of hurling in Dublin means that they are going to have a very good minor side every year from now on, which is good for the game.
"It'll be a big, big challenge for us, but if we can get things right on the field it'll take a good team to beat us.

That tells us a lot about our minor team. It must be a state secret who the panel are but I suppose we will be told tonight.

I dont think anyone on here gives a **** about our Minor team even though these lads are the future of our senior team as evidenced by the lack of response to your posts and my own previous posts but yes I agree with you there that Hoban has kept his cards close to his chest regarding who the panel are but there are a few still there from last year so hopefully they can give it a right good go this year and bring home a Minor All Ireland I think we are due. Dublin will be a good test for the young lads

realdanbreen

TheBomber14 wrote: »

trying ur best to undermine me here now in front of the other posters. We will see who is laughing after the league final, after u have to eat ur words, right after the kk backs eat the windy tipp forwards.

Don't you worry too much about being undermined bomber, I don't believe it's possible to have a lower opinion of your knowledge of hurling than I already have.

Grats

pmy.murphy wrote: »

I dont think anyone on here gives a **** about our Minor team even though these lads are the future of our senior team as evidenced by the lack of response to your posts and my own previous posts but yes I agree with you there that Hoban has kept his cards close to his chest regarding who the panel are but there are a few still there from last year so hopefully they can give it a right good go this year and bring home a Minor All Ireland I think we are due. Dublin will be a good test for the young lads

I did mean to discuss the minor set up and was actively looking for info but failed to get any. Only thing I heard is that they're expected to be a good team! Very much looking forward to their first outing and will be at the game.

Kilkennyfella

Grats wrote: »

I did mean to discuss the minor set up and was actively looking for info but failed to get any. Only thing I heard is that they're expected to be a good team! Very much looking forward to their first outing and will be at the game.

Any sign of the Minor team? Just checked the Kilkenny GAA website and there is nothing up.
Perhaps it is not been named until tonight.

premierstone

Talking to lads in the know about underage and development squads etc the general consensus is the minor will be between Limerick and KK this year, it will take a fair team to beat Limerick but as they say minors are funny fish and its all on the day.

Formosa

TheBomber14 wrote: »

trying ur best to undermine me here now in front of the other posters. We will see who is laughing after the league final, after u have to eat ur words, right after the kk backs eat the windy tipp forwards.

Are you dreading going back to school on Monday bomber?

Hope you have all the homework done...

savannahkat

LEINSTER HURLING CHAMPIONSHIP
KILKENNY v DUBLIN

Darren Brennan St. Lachtains
Tommy Walsh Tullaroan
Bill McDowell John Lockes
Conor Delaney Erins Own
Jason Cleere Bennettsbridge
Darren Mullen Ballyhale Shamrocks
Jack Keoghan Tullaroan
Liam Blanchfield Bennettsbridge
Darragh Joyce (Capt). Rower Inistioge
Alan Murphy Glenmore
Sean Morrissey Bennettsbridge
Eoin Kenny Slieverue
Cian O’Donoghue Tullogher Rosbercon
John Walsh Mullinavat
Ronan Corcoran Ballyhale Shamrocks
Jason Barcoe Clara
Conor Doheny Dicksboro
Eoin Walsh Lisdowney
Niall Walsh Windgap
Andrew Gaffney Dicksboro
Tadhg O’Dwyer James Stephens
Robbie Donnelly Thomastown
Conor Carroll Lisdowney
Cian O Meara Thomastown

savannahkat

Pat Hoban in Kilkenny people
While the Kilkenny panel is now together again, injuries will force some changes for Saturday’s game.
“We’ve sustained quite a few injuries,” the manager said. “From the lads who played last year Liam Hennessy will feature as he’s broken his collarbone. Luke Scanlon is out with a hamstring strain, Cathal McGrath will also be missing while Darragh Joyce hasn’t played hurling this year.”

rebel girl 15

Just a warning, please keep the personal comments out of it, remember attack the post not the poster rule!

citykat

Toblerone1978 wrote: »

I don't think posters are suggesting Clare threw the match. Rather they didn't taper down in training for the days leading to the match; basically trained as normal and didn't give any real allowance to the match. The Clare lads has pace to burn which wasn't there on Sunday - that is probably due to the legs being tired rather than Clare having a bad day or Tipp hurled them out of it (which they did ).

pmy.murphy wrote: »

I dont think anyone on here gives a **** about our Minor team even though these lads are the future of our senior team as evidenced by the lack of response to your posts and my own previous posts but yes I agree with you there that Hoban has kept his cards close to his chest regarding who the panel are but there are a few still there from last year so hopefully they can give it a right good go this year and bring home a Minor All Ireland I think we are due. Dublin will be a good test for the young lads

Whatever about this forum, given the buzz around the colleges final, I'd say there'll be a reasonable attendance on Sat.
I would imagine the prospects are good. Lot of the team have been training/playing at a high level since before Xmas with their schools.

citykat

savannahkat wrote: »

I wonder what the make up of the team for the final will be. I would expect at least 7 changes from the starting 15 we put out in the league series which was,
David Herity,
Willie Phelan, Kieran Joyce, Brian Kennedy,
Joey Holden, Brian Hogan, Tommy Walsh
Lester Ryan, Padraig Walsh,
Walter Walsh,Colin Fennelly, Henry Shefflin
Jonjo Farrell, Mark Kelly, TJ Reid.

Injuries permitting I don't think there'll be many changes especially in the backs. I think Kennedy, Walsh (P) and Buckley will all play. These guys need as much big game experience as possible. Think Tayto will line out in MF. if there's a full squad Wally might be rested. If KK play their strongest selection, I expect them to win another humdinger by a few points.

citykat

premierstone wrote: »

Very true, my hope would be though that last years relative failure for both teams has brought a little perspective to both camps and also they both realise now that they can't simply worry about each other exclusively, there is realistically 7 or 8 teams all capable of beating each other, another factor aswell is that there are even more of the old faces that will be missing, alot of the players involved weren't really part of that rivarly that built up and as you allude to spilt over at times, both on and off the pitch.

Ah come on lads it's hardly Israel/Palestine, Dublin/Meath...