Formula 1 2013:Round 1 - Australian Grand Prix

frostie500

EnterNow wrote: »

It'd be a lot of work, but I'd be interested in seeing the figures where car failure is taken into account

Button has had a few car failures as well and it was only last year that Lewis had mechanical issues, the years before were his own mistakes crashing out of races or into other cars.

Don't get me wrong if I was a team manager I'd want Lewis because he has a much bigger spectrum of performance whereas Jenson needs everything to be perfect for him to get the most of the car and himself. It's just that over the last few years he has shown that when he has the car to his liking he is ever bit as good as everyone else.

Myrddin

frostie500 wrote: »

Button has had a few car failures as well and it was only last year that Lewis had mechanical issues, the years before were his own mistakes crashing out of races or into other cars.

Even taking Lewis' own mistakes into account, I'd wager if car failure was ruled into the point tally that he'd beat Button on points

frostie500

EnterNow wrote: »

Even taking Lewis' own mistakes into account, I'd wager if car failure was ruled into the point tally that he'd beat Button on points

Maybe it would but the only point that I was making was that over their three years as teammates there wasnt much of a difference between their race performances and points total as you'd think from looking at the domination that Hamilton had over button in qualifying. Once we got to Sunday Button invariably found a way to make up for lacking that ultimate bit of qualifying speed to put in so many good drives in races

Myrddin

frostie500 wrote: »

Maybe it would but the only point that I was making was that over their three years as teammates there wasnt much of a difference between their race performances and points total as you'd think from looking at the domination that Hamilton had over button in qualifying. Once we got to Sunday Button invariably found a way to make up for lacking that ultimate bit of qualifying speed to put in so many good drives in races

Totally agree, careful he who underestimates what Button can behind the wheel

Andrew76

EnterNow wrote: »

Totally agree, careful he who underestimates what Button can behind the wheel

Pit crew from other teams beware too! :pac:

Myrddin

Andrew76 wrote: »

Pit crew from other teams beware too! :pac:

The Red Bull incident? :pac:

RayM

I'm going to miss the Button/Hamilton pairing. It was the most interesting in Formula 1. It's amazing that two wildly different driving styles could, over the course of three years, produce broadly similar results.

Given the unpredictability of the first race, I'm tempted to put some money on Button. He's currently priced at 16/1 with Paddy Power.

Andrew76

EnterNow wrote: »

The Red Bull incident? :pac:

Aye, was a real wtf were you thinking moment. Maybe it was wishful thinking on his part.

RayM wrote: »

I'm going to miss the Button/Hamilton pairing. It was the most interesting in Formula 1. It's amazing that two wildly different driving styles could, over the course of three years, produce broadly similar results.

Given the unpredictability of the first race, I'm tempted to put some money on Button. He's currently priced at 16/1 with Paddy Power.

If it's a dry race then I'd guess a Vettel v Lewis tussle. If it's wet, Alonso will be in with a shout.

jay_haych

Gary Anderson's predicted Melbourne grid.

Rosberg 1:19.730

2 Button 1:19.764

3 Vettel 1:19.797

4 Hamilton 1:19.886

5 Raikkonen 1:19.968

6 Alonso 1:20.004

7 Webber 1:20.113

8 Perez 1:20.348

9 Grosjean 1:20.498

10 Massa 1:20.576

11 Maldonado 1:20.705

12 Bottas 1:20.868

13 Sutil 1:21.247

14 Hulkenberg 1:21.341

15 Di Resta 1:21.464

16 Gutierrez 1:22.353

17 Vergne 1:22.823

18 Pic 1:22.915

19 Bianchi 1:22.967

20 Ricardo 1:23.138

21 Chilton 1:23.903

22 Van Der Garde 1:24.035


http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/formula1/21660055

EnterNow

EnterNow wrote: »

It'd be a lot of work, but I'd be interested in seeing the figures where car failure is taken into account

2010:
Hamilton:
Spain: Lost 2nd when a tyre blew out. - 18 points, Button +2.
Hungary: Lost 4th due to gearbox. -12 points, Button +2


Button:
Monaco:Started 8th, mechanic left something on the car which overheated the engine. Looked likely to have decent race pace. -4.
Belgium: Lost 1st when Vettel crashed into him. -25, Hamilton +10.

Total for the year due to mechanical retirements, Hamilton -20, Button -25.



2011:
Hamilton:
Brazil, gearbox, retired from 6th (as far as I can figure out). -8.

Button:
Britain: Retired from 5th (I think) just after a pitstop and was getting up to speed. -10
Germany: Retired from around 7th with hydraulics issues. -6

Total for the year due to mechanical retirements: Hamilton -8, Button -16.


2012
Hamilton:
Europe: Lost 3rd and was fading badly. Let's be generous though. :pac: Hamilton -15, Button +2.
Belgium: Started 8th, was taken out by Grosjean. -4
Singapore: Gearbox gone in lead. Hamilton -25, Button +3.
Abu Dhabi: Lost the lead. Hamilton -25, Button +2.
Brazil: Hamilton -25, Button +7.

Button:
Bahrain: Think it was 8th or 9th he retired from, we'll go with 9th so I'm not accused of bias. :pac: -2
Italy: Lost a solid 2nd and looked like he might make it interesting with Hamilton towards the end. -18

Total for year: Hamilton -94, Button -19.
Total for 3 years: Hamilton -122, Button -60.

62 is more than how many Button outscored Hamilton obviously but there's still some room for argument. Europe 2012 Hamilton blew his tyres, his fault and wouldn't cede. Spain 2010 Hamilton lost out when his wheel broke, does anyone think that would happen with Button? I also haven't included Korea last when Button was taken out because he wasn't in the points, but he had tyre advantage etc.

There was next to nothing to separate the two McLaren lads in the end. The predictions of what Hamilton would do to Button were pretty hilarious.

Jordan 199

frostie500 wrote: »

Based on the fact that over the last three years there was very little to choose between them in race trim. I dont for a second think that Button is able to pull a laptime out the bag as well as Hamilton and if the car isnt working as he needs it to be he is not capable of muscling it to do as he wants like we see Hamilton do but over their three years as teammates Button outscored Lewis and had more podiums.

I agree with that. If Jenson has a slump like he did with setup and tyre issues last year, it could cost him the championship this year.

Last year, Lewis got most out of the McLaren compared to Jenson.

Max_Charger

Deleted User wrote: »

2010:
Europe 2012 Hamilton blew his tyres, his fault and wouldn't cede.

The Maldonado incident? Maldonado was the only one penalised for that after the race.

SnowDrifts

Deleted User wrote: »

Europe 2012 Hamilton blew his tyres, his fault and wouldn't cede.

Lol.. I remember your flawed logic after that race. Like the poster above states, only one driver got a penalty for this and rightly so. Maldonado came from off the track into the side of Lewis. How anyone can blame Lewis for that is beyond me

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L1Wcch5nR-g

Charlie-Bravo

Holy crap, cannot contain myself...grinding my teeth in anticipation. New season....AAAAARRRRRGGGHHHH!

I meant it was his fault that he blew his tyres. Good to see you're all dying to jump before we're even at qualifying, Christ. The point of it being in the list is that it was a retirement that he probably wasn't at fault for. That's why him turning in on Kobayashi in Spa isn't included for example. But keep your fingers on those triggers, I'm sure I'll make some more grammatically ambiguous statements again soon.

SnowDrifts

Deleted User wrote: »

I meant it was his fault that he blew his tyres. Good to see you're all dying to jump before we're even at qualifying, Christ. The point of it being in the list is that it was a retirement that he probably wasn't at fault for. That's why him turning in on Kobayashi in Spa isn't included for example. But keep your fingers on those triggers, I'm sure I'll make some more grammatically ambiguous statements again soon.

It was the "wouldn't cede" part I was disagreeing with.

Anyway, your right - on to the morning's qualifying. Can't wait and even though I'm sure Red Bull has it in the bag, I hope its closer than is being predicted. A Vettel 2013 show sounds very bleak.

Obviously it's hard to judge much from FP but Kimi looks roughly where he was last season. Better/more aggressive pit strategy could put him in the title picture if it is indeed the case.

Jordan 199

And the rain is falling in P3.

Cereal Number

boom boom boom boom let me hear ya say way oh!

Ghost Train

Rain does mix things up a bit, and people saving wets means they think they might need them later on, Vettel having issue is nice to see too

Jordan 199

P3 times.

Wooo!

vectra

Morning

Jordan 199

Crikey, its really peeing down there :eek:

Sparks43

Ahh ffs 10 minute delay

Looks grand to me get the pansys out on track:mad:

Andrew76

Rain looks to be dying down a bit thankfully. Cmon, let's see some action!

vectra

delayed another 10 mins

Another 10 minute delay. What is the point of the extreme wet tyres?

Sparks43

What standing water

STFU Coulthard

Myrddin

Sparks43 wrote: »

STFU Coulthard

Heard that, he's off early this year. Apparently the tyres arn't designed to deal with weather like this :rolleyes:

Morning folks