One in 2 Austrians believe Hitler's rule had some positive aspects.

Iwasfrozen

Andrew Purfield wrote: »

Read everything I wrote please.

I forgot my ticket as I was in a hurry. At worse I was expecting to pay a small fine.

Instead I was dragged physically out of the tram, falsely detained and hit three times when I asked questions and then told wait for the police so I could be arrested on top of this over lies as well.

No I wasnt drunk. Maybe that fits in with the Aussie stereotype of an Irishman abroad.

I dont care what you believe. People should be wary of the police state culture that exists to some degree here.

You weren't falsely detained, you were detained because you boarded the train without a ticket and security had to wait for the police to come to deal with you.

So let me get this right. You forgot your ticket but decided to board the train anyway. Security rightly detain you because you have committed a crime and instead of waiting for the police to come to accept the consequences of your actions you complain that the officers assaulted you after you hit them during your escape attempt.

Do you think the law doesn't apply to you or something?

Did I get that right? If so I hope they catch you.

Tony EH

WumBuster wrote: »

They have basically been the cause of two massive world wars that caused huge destruction and suffering and imo they were let off the hook to easily, especially by the British never seemed that interested in European affairs anyway.

Wow...you actually couldn't be more wrong if you tried.

Tony EH

WumBuster wrote: »

Hitler, like Stalin sold himself on propoganda.

Jesus Christ...

:rolleyes:



[ahem]cult of personality[/ahem]

The Aussie

Andrew Purfield wrote: »

I forgot my ticket as I was in a hurry. At worse I was expecting to pay a small fine.

Instead I was dragged physically out of the tram, falsely detained and hit three times when I asked questions and then told wait for the police so I could be arrested on top of this over lies as well.

Yes because you are telling the whole truth aren't you :rolleyes:
I glad your pathetic "Story" is being treated with the contempt it deserves.

Andrew Purfield wrote: »

No I wasnt drunk. Maybe that fits in with the Aussie stereotype of an Irishman abroad.

Andrew Purfield wrote: »

The Aussie poster posted the usual racist ****e about an Irishman abroad being drunk

No because you "story" was so fcuking stupid it was the only excuse I could think of for you on your behalf, but obviously it's not just the story.

Pathetic...

Venus In Fuurs

I find Hitler fascinating.

The_Valeyard

Tony EH wrote: »

Wow...you actually couldn't be more wrong if you tried.

He is actually half right, the assassination of Franz Ferdinand, the heir to the Austrian Hungarian throne was the Catalyst for the first world war. while the Nazi did more or less launch a coup to control Austria with an Anschluss for the second. So somewhat yay n nay. rest is gibberish.

K4t

The Nazis built motorways, but their defining characteristics, the things which they were really about, were evil.

It's similar to religion. What religion does well most social organisations do well, tennis clubs, charities, rotary clubs...etc

But what really makes a religion. What is the necessary condition? Faith. And an exclusive faith that trumps other sources of truth. That is bad.

lanos

VinLieger wrote: »

Why do people resurrect threads that are nearly 2 years old?

Because they may have something interesting to add
Why do you care ?
Maybe the mods should close rubbish or very old threads

Collie D

riffmongous wrote: »

I've never seen a fight in Austria in the years I've been here, worked in an Irish pub for 12 months and there was almost never even a hint of trouble from the locals, much less any agro.

Are people bigoted? I think some sections of society are but I've never came across anything bad, certainly no violence except for the Serbs against Albanians. It's mostly expressed through grumbling and voting for the FPÖ. The Akademikerball is coming up now in a few weeks and that there is usually some pretty big demos against it, worth keeping an eye on

May I ask what this Akademikerball
is? I have zero German but to me sounds like a student night so curious as to why it would attract protests. Googled it but found nothing in English.

Probably way off topic but has grabbed my attention for some reason.

riffmongous

Collie D wrote: »

May I ask what this Akademikerball
is? I have zero German but to me sounds like a student night so curious as to why it would attract protests. Googled it but found nothing in English.

Probably way off topic but has grabbed my attention for some reason.

Yeah it's a misleading name alright, but it's a recent name change, it used to be known as the Korporation ball, which also sounds a bit misleading to english speakers. It's ball season here at the moment where many different groups and universities hold a dance, and this particular ball is for people who belong to Burschenschaften, which are basically like fraternities in university (this is where 'akademiker' comes from I think) which are dedicated to german culture/nationalism. Most of them go back to the mid-1800s before there even was a Germany so this wasn't always a bad thing, but nowadays things are much different of course and german nationalism has quite a different meaning for most people. Sword fighting is one of their main traditions and that's why you get the cliche of the WW2 German officer with a scar on his face.

They are strongly associated with the political far right, and in Austria with the Austrian Freedom Party (FPÖ) with a lot of their top politicians and financial backers coming from these fraternities. The FPÖ is very anti immigrant, anti-muslim, pro-christian culture and incredibly populist, I wouldn't go so far as to describe them as a neo-nazi party though, although I would guess there are a lot of skeletons hiding away in their closets and if neo-nazis do vote they would probably vote for them.. They have a lot in common with UKIP I think, but in a part of Europe where nationalism is a lot more dangerous.

There are always big protests against it too from these different left wing anti-nationalist groups who are pretty militant; Antifa, Offensive Gegen Rechts, anarchists..

jugger0

If the Nazis won the war, after they were done killing, i'd say who ever was left would have a pretty swell time. I imagine there would be pretty low levels of crime, high levels of technological advancement, people would be very fit and healthy, the environment would be cared for, Nazi's loved the environment... Not such good craic for the Untermensch tho.

Iwasfrozen

jugger0 wrote: »

If the Nazis won the war, after they were done killing, i'd say who ever was left would have a pretty swell time. I imagine there would be pretty low levels of crime,

Well yeah but Saudi Arabia has low crime.

high levels of technological advancement,

The Nazis were way behind the US and UK, during the war. 80% of German logistical transportantion was equestrian drawn. Source: http://www.zdnet.com/article/the-wwii-german-army-was-80-horse-drawn-business-lessons-from-history/

Jealousy of US/UK industrialization and wealth was one factor in Germany's opposition to them in both world wars. People tend to imagine the German's were far more advanced than they actually were, due in no small part to the wunderwaffe propaganda campaign near the end of the war.

people would be very fit and healthy,

Unless you oppose the established order, then you won't be healthy very long.

the environment would be cared for, Nazi's loved the environment...

They did but then it's easy to maintain an environment when you have such a low population density. Why do the eastern regions have such low population density? Well those are the types of questions that can get the asker klled.

Not such good craic for the Untermensch tho.

That's an understatement.

The Corinthian

The_Valeyard wrote: »

He is actually half right, the assassination of Franz Ferdinand, the heir to the Austrian Hungarian throne was the Catalyst for the first world war.

WTF has that got to do with what he wrote? Or Franz Ferdinand for that matter, given he was heir to a multi-ethnic empire and planned to turn the double crown of Austria-Hungary into a triple crown, giving the southern Slavs equal status (which is why the Serbians considered him a threat to be removed). No connection to Nazism whatsoever.

As to the original post you were citing (not responding to), it was just a lazy national stereotype of Germans by someone clearly with the educational level of a seven year old.

VinLieger

lanos wrote: »

Because they may have something interesting to add
Why do you care ?
Maybe the mods should close rubbish or very old threads

Because if you wanna start a discussion on a thread thats two years old you start a new one per the AH guidelines

jugger0

Iwasfrozen wrote: »

The Nazis were way behind the US and UK, during the war. 80% of German logistical transportantion was equestrian drawn. Source: http://www.zdnet.com/article/the-wwii-german-army-was-80-horse-drawn-business-lessons-from-history/

Hmmmm i disagree, they invented the assault rifle (StG44) albeit a bit late, they had the best tanks(though only after getting a hiding off Russian tanks), Tiger>Sherman, They had the MG42 one of the best machine guns ever made, still used today! V2 rockets... I would say in most aspects they were fairly ahead, defo ahead of the Brits, Yanks made the atom bomb first tho!

Shenshen

Iwasfrozen wrote: »

The Nazis were way behind the US and UK, during the war. 80% of German logistical transportantion was equestrian drawn. Source: http://www.zdnet.com/article/the-wwii-german-army-was-80-horse-drawn-business-lessons-from-history/

Jealousy of US/UK industrialization and wealth was one factor in Germany's opposition to them in both world wars. People tend to imagine the German's were far more advanced than they actually were, due in no small part to the wunderwaffe propaganda campaign near the end of the war.

They were indeed relying on horses, but not so much because they didn't have the technology for anything else. What they lacked was the technology to magic petrol or diesel out of thin air.

And I would argue that before WWi, Germany was the world leader in the area of chemistry, and second in world steel production.

During WW II, they pioneered rocket science and jet engines.

There are many reasons for WW I (most of which I won't pretend to understand), but to claim that Germany was jealous of the US and UK level of industrialisation was not one of them.

Dyr

jugger0 wrote: »

Hmmmm i disagree, they invented the assault rifle (StG44) albeit a bit late, they had the best tanks(though only after getting a hiding off Russian tanks), Tiger>Sherman, They had the MG42 one of the best machine guns ever made, still used today! V2 rockets... I would say in most aspects they were fairly ahead, defo ahead of the Brits, Yanks made the atom bomb first tho!

tbh Uncle Joe's T34 was probably the best pound for pound tank of that era, it set the trend for later designs. Maybe the Panzer V could rival it

There are designs based on the MG42 still in use today, don't think there's any armies still knocking about with the original version though.

Ze Germans had the engineering and innovation, the americans and russians had the production capacity.

Tony EH

Regarding Germany's reliance on horse drawn artillery, they certainly weren't alone in that regard. I don't think any major combatant was fully mechanised in the early years of the war.

Besides, horses came in very handy in the rasputitsa of 1941 and could keep going when vehicles were bogged down in seas of muddy roads. It turned out the they were very glad to have their horses.

The only reason the Gerries get singled out for their use of horse drawn equipment, is because of the myth of their panzer divisions being fully mechanised.

Also, regarding the quality of the vehicles, the main problem with German equipment was that it was over engineered and subject to difficult repair processes when inevitable breakdowns occurred. But, again, they were certainly not alone in that regard. The Sherman could be an absolute bugger to carry out repairs on, but the allies always had the advantage of better and more fluid supply lines, than the Germans had.

As has been said though, the best tank of the war, over all, was the T-34, which was simply made and simply run. In terms or a reliable gun platform, the German tanks were obviously better. But, for general running reliability, the T-34 will win every time.

jugger0

Bambi wrote: »

There are designs based on the MG42 still in use today, don't think there's any armies still knocking about with the original version though.

Yes i meant the MG3! Germans had some very nice weapons, would hate to be on the receiving end of one of those.

Andrew Purfield

Iwasfrozen wrote: »

You weren't falsely detained, you were detained because you boarded the train without a ticket and security had to wait for the police to come to deal with you.

So let me get this right. You forgot your ticket but decided to board the train anyway. Security rightly detain you because you have committed a crime and instead of waiting for the police to come to accept the consequences of your actions you complain that the officers assaulted you after you hit them during your escape attempt.

Do you think the law doesn't apply to you or something?

Did I get that right? If so I hope they catch you.

A few things pal right:

1. They are not officers. They are private security. They have no right to assault me, and they started our confrontation by doing so almost before I could say anything at all in German.

2. I retaliated in self defence after being punched in the elbow and shoved hard by one 'officer's' shoulder as well as having my jacket ripped somewhat by three men and a woman laying into me.

3. Not having a ticket is not a crime but a misdemeanor. Even here. Sounds like a Blueshirt word in this context.

Nobody has a right to detain you except the Police in this country. I did not wait because I knew these people, after having assaulted me first, would have told lies about me and exaggerated the situation.

What I did was self defence.

Would you let 3 Iarnród Éireann people do that to you? You would yeah.

If I was more trustworthy of private thugs not lying to the Police about what happened and confident I would only receive a small fine as is the legal norm I would have stuck around.

UCDVet

Didn't Hitler start one of the first ever anti-smoking campaigns?

I mean, that's a pretty good thing, isn't it?

AndonHandon

doolox wrote: »

The reason why people may think there is some good in AH and the Nazi's is mainly because of high unemployment and its resultant plague on society, exclusion, poverty and underemployment.

Especially among the youth and undereducated many through no fault of their own a large portion of society in Western Europe and in many parts of the US etc are forced to compete for scarce jobs and scarce resources with people from the poorer nations of the Earth while being endlessly bombarded with advertisements extolling the values of aspiring to acquire more and more material goods at highly inflated prices breeding a large level of discontent and division in society.

Never before has the poorer elements of society been more aware of the lifestyles of the privilged elite and never before was there such a low level of security, certainty or predictability in the workplace.

Some people can handle this and thrive, others become angry and learn to hate. The more unscruplous exploit this hate and strive for power.

In my mind the worlds governments should work together to reduce unemployment to insignificant levels and allow everyone a slice of the economic pie.

Marshall aid was an example of this action across international boundaries after WW2. We probably need a similar rebalancing and redefining of world economic affairs at a radical level in order to survive.

There is an AH version of Godwin's law that applies in relation to the dole; the longer a thread goes the more likely the dole will be mentioned.

Iwasfrozen

Andrew Purfield wrote: »

A few things pal right:

1. They are not officers. They are private security. They have no right to assault me, and they started our confrontation by doing so almost before I could say anything at all in German.

The officers hit you before you tried to escape? I highly doubt that.

2. I retaliated in self defence after being punched in the elbow and shoved hard by one 'officer's' shoulder as well as having my jacket ripped somewhat by three men and a woman laying into me.

While trying to escape.

3. Not having a ticket is not a crime but a misdemeanor. Even here. Sounds like a Blueshirt word in this context.

Obviously Austrian policy is to call the police in case of someone boarding a train without a ticket, as an Austrian resident who had full prior knowledge of Austrian law you should have waited for the police to come and accepted whatever punishment is deemed acceptable by Austrian law in this circumstance.

Nobody has a right to detain you except the Police in this country. I did not wait because I knew these people, after having assaulted me first, would have told lies about me and exaggerated the situation.

Private security have a right to detain you under circumstances where the person being detained is believed to have been guilty of a crime. In the case of shoplifting in Ireland it is totally normal for private security to detain a person while police come. Obviously the same policy applies in Austria re: boarding a train without a ticket.

What I did was self defence.

I don't believe they attacked you unprovoked.

Would you let 3 Iarnród Éireann people do that to you? You would yeah.

I've never used public transport without a valid ticket but in the hypothetical situation that I took the risk and got caught then yeah I would let them detain me.

If I was more trustworthy of private thugs not lying to the Police about what happened and confident I would only receive a small fine as is the legal norm I would have stuck around.

Someone has a problem with private security.

They can't make up charges, you have to be aware of any charge levied against you and you can't be liable for any charge the security can't prove. The least you could expect would be a day in court to explain your side of the story.

You committed a crime in a foreign country, made a scene, refused to sit quietly and accept the consequences of your decision and bitched that security hit you after you assaulted them while you attempted to escape justice. As I said before I hope they catch you.

DeadHand

Andrew Purfield wrote: »

A few things pal right:

1. They are not officers. They are private security. They have no right to assault me, and they started our confrontation by doing so almost before I could say anything at all in German.

2. I retaliated in self defence after being punched in the elbow and shoved hard by one 'officer's' shoulder as well as having my jacket ripped somewhat by three men and a woman laying into me.

3. Not having a ticket is not a crime but a misdemeanor. Even here. Sounds like a Blueshirt word in this context.

Nobody has a right to detain you except the Police in this country. I did not wait because I knew these people, after having assaulted me first, would have told lies about me and exaggerated the situation.

What I did was self defence.

Would you let 3 Iarnród Éireann people do that to you? You would yeah.

If I was more trustworthy of private thugs not lying to the Police about what happened and confident I would only receive a small fine as is the legal norm I would have stuck around.

Why is this boring, ridiculous argument still happening here?

All these interesting points about the war, Nazis, etc. and my reading gets spoiled by this nonsense that keeps popping up?

Can't you fellas start a separate thread for this squabbling or, better yet, go away?


Anyways, the T-34 was the best tank of WW2 hands down. While not nearly as powerful as, for example, the Tiger it was a stunningly efficient machine and a mechanics dream. Relatively easy and fast to produce, easy to repair, reliable and with spare parts lying around all over the place. The best tanks aren't necessarily the heaviest, fastest, best armed or armoured. Reliability trumps all that. It's no good having a powerful beast of a machine if you can't get it to the battlefield and keep it there.

The T-34 certainly wasn't individually the most powerful tank of the war but it was the most influential overall.

I wouldn't downplay British innovation during the war either. While perhaps not as innovative as Germany and certainly lacking Soviet or American industrial capacity they were streets ahead of anyone else in certain areas, most notably code breaking and, crucially, radar.

Although certainly not immune to disaster and often chaotic, the SOE were an innovative and surprisingly effective force in occupied Europe for most of the war, often on a shoestring budget.

catallus

I think the big question here is who was Hitler, exactly?

Someone should write a book about him.

Desolation Of Smug

DeadHand wrote: »

Why is this boring, ridiculous argument still happening here?

All these interesting points about the war, Nazis, etc. and my reading gets spoiled by this nonsense that keeps popping up?

Can't you fellas start a separate thread for this squabbling or, better yet, go away?


Anyways, the T-34 was the best tank of WW2 hands down. While not nearly as powerful as, for example, the Tiger it was a stunningly efficient machine and a mechanics dream. Relatively easy and fast to produce, easy to repair, reliable and with spare parts lying around all over the place. The best tanks aren't necessarily the heaviest, fastest, best armed or armoured. Reliability trumps all that. It's no good having a powerful beast of a machine if you can't get it to the battlefield and keep it there.

The T-34 certainly wasn't individually the most powerful tank of the war but it was the most influential overall.

I wouldn't downplay British innovation during the war either. While perhaps not as innovative as Germany and certainly lacking Soviet or American industrial capacity they were streets ahead of anyone else in certain areas, most notably code breaking and, crucially, radar.

Although certainly not immune to disaster and often chaotic, the SOE were an innovative and surprisingly effective force in occupied Europe for most of the war, often on a shoestring budget.

I can't see you getting too many tanks for that. Good read though.

Citroen2cv

There probably wouldnt be any volkswagens if Hitler didnt come to power.

TwoShedsJackson

Citroen2cv wrote: »

There probably wouldnt be any volkswagens if Hitler didnt come to power.

Nor any Citroens had he remained in power.

Lucyfur

MOD

Much old, wow.