Exclusion of Sex Workers from Justice Committee

CK73

Hilly Bill wrote: »

I didnt say that they havent. Im sure that 1 or 2 have.

I know of 5 personally and I volunteered myself.

You say greedy? Yet surely a Sex Worker has more to consider than just today if she is working long term? For example, she may want to buy into a pension, she doesn't get holiday pay and being rather an intense job, it is important for well being to take time off when needed. She may feel more comfortable taking less bookings and feel it is in the interest of her clients for reasons of discretion, she may pay high rates on accommodation, in order to provide a good all round experience. She is likely not a clock watcher and gives 100% to every client, because she paces herself and the rate affords her to do that.

There is also an element of danger money. After all, if she does get robbed or mugged and has to take time off work, no one is going to pay her bills while she recovers.

If the job was similar to most other jobs in wage, then it just wouldn't be worth doing, because it is hard being self employed in any sphere, but if you work hard and put the effort in, then it pays off.

Sweet Rachel

I doubt an escort who is forced into prostitution and works against her will , no matter what the threats are , she will not go in front of the Committee to talk.

True indie? Whats that? Doing own phone, look 4 accommodation, pay for everything and keep the money for myself? Yes, I do all that.

Also, I do share with another escorts in many ocasions, under the law is not legal. Am I not a true indie by doing it, even if I think of my safety?

I started with an agency , so called pimps, in the eyes of the Committee, very happy to be helped and pay an x amount of money for it.

I am part of the majority of foreign escorts, started to work in Ireland as the majority of them do , some keep working for an agency or not.

Also, in my time here, the end of 2009, I never came across with one escort to look like she is here agaisnt her will.

Thats the truth..

The Th!ng

Hilly Bill wrote: »

I agree, but there may be suspicion that they are being put up for it by someone else and not of their free will even though they may be 100% indo.

Many working girls in the UK pay their taxes same as everyone else, I think this could be used as evidence of their indie status if the need arose.

Sweet Rachel

Hilly Bill wrote: »

Thats the point that you are missing, some cant.

The way the country is going then the government would be mad not to legalise the genuine indo workers who share apartments etc with 2 or 3 other genuine indo workers and tax them but i doubt that girls wouldnt wont that either .

I dont agree with more than 2 girls sharing , as would be a proper brothel .

aare

Hilly Bill wrote: »

Thats the point that you are missing, some cant.

...and how do you know?

Think it's more likely that most sex workers have better things to do with their time than bother with that sort of rubbish.

Hilly Bill

Sweet Rachel wrote: »

I doubt an escort who is forced into prostitution and works against her will , no matter what the threats are , she will not go in front of the Committee to talk.

True indie? Whats that? Doing own phone, look 4 accommodation, pay for everything and keep the money for myself? Yes, I do all that.

Also, I do share with another escorts in many ocasions, under the law is not legal. Am I not a true indie by doing it, even if I think of my safety?

I started with an agency , so called pimps, in the eyes of the Committee, very happy to be helped and pay an x amount of money for it.

I am part of the majority of foreign escorts, started to work in Ireland as the majority of them do , some keep working for an agency or not.

Also, in my time here, the end of 2009, I never came across with one escort to look like she is here agaisnt her will.

Thats the truth..

Well said. Its some of your fellow countrymen/women that gives the decent ones the bad name and thats all the likes of Rhuma and the media sees.

aare

CK73 wrote: »

You say greedy? Yet surely a Sex Worker has more to consider than just today if she is working long term? For example, she may want to buy into a pension, she doesn't get holiday pay and being rather an intense job, it is important for well being to take time off when needed. She may feel more comfortable taking less bookings and feel it is in the interest of her clients for reasons of discretion, she may pay high rates on accommodation, in order to provide a good all round experience. She is likely not a clock watcher and gives 100% to every client, because she paces herself and the rate affords her to do that.

There is also an element of danger money. After all, if she does get robbed or mugged and has to take time off work, no one is going to pay her bills while she recovers.

If the job was similar to most other jobs in wage, then it just wouldn't be worth doing, because it is hard being self employed in any sphere, but if you work hard and put the effort in, then it pays off.

I don't think ANY self employed person should even consider having their rates set by some form of consensus.

Madam_X

Really depends on the type of prostitution being referred to before blanket statements like "Shur it's consenting adults, what's the harm in it?" can be made. That applies to plenty of it, yes, but how come there are women for whom the type of prostitution they work in is a living hell?

Hilly Bill

aare wrote: »

...and how do you know?

Think it's more likely that most sex workers have better things to do with their time than bother with that sort of rubbish.

If you think that there arnt any girls out there that cant leave the apartment when they want or talk to who they want then you are seriously blinkered.

If some of the workers get a voice then some of the punters should also get their voice heard by the same committee.

aare

Sweet Rachel wrote: »

Also, in my time here, the end of 2009, I never came across with one escort to look like she is here agaisnt her will.

Thats the truth..

I have to say that I have only come across one coerced sex worker in my life and that was because her husband was a dangerous psycho in every sense. Expecting her to get money for him was just another facet of that, and if she couldn't have sold sex he would have expected her to get it another way.

...unfortunately you can't frame legislation to completely eradicate b*stards like that.

Henlars67

It is no business of any government whether or not a woman chooses to have sex for money or not. H

Her body, her choice.

aare

Hilly Bill wrote: »

If you think that there arnt any girls out there that cant leave the apartment when they want or talk to who they want then you are seriously blinkered.

All that stuff is just rubbish made up to sell tabloids and shoddy documentaries. Ask the REAL sex workers, they will tell you what their lives are like, which is why the Justice Committee should be hearing them instead of mythology.

Hilly Bill

aare wrote: »

All that stuff is just rubbish made up to sell tabloids and shoddy documentaries. Ask the REAL sex workers, they will tell you what their lives are like, which is why the Justice Committee should be hearing them instead of mythology.

WHAT??????? Are you for real?

They are all real sex workers, its just that some are working more freely than others .

aare

Madam_X wrote: »

Really depends on the type of prostitution being referred to before blanket statements like "Shur it's consenting adults, what's the harm in it?" can be made. That applies to plenty of it, yes, but how come there are women for whom the type of prostitution they work in is a living hell?

There is a very simple way to deal with that. First you ask them if they need help, then you ask them what kind of help they need rather than taking their income away and blindly inflicting looney fanatics like Ruhama and friends on them.

CK73

aare wrote: »

I don't think ANY self employed person should even consider having their rates set by some form of consensus.

Agreed, but the fact that some charge more than others, has nothing to do with greed, it has more to do with where they see themselves in line with what is on offer and what they offer. I suppose it is a bit like buying a generic item or a branded one. If the brand is known to do what it says on the tin and is consistently shown to be good quality, then you are prepared to pay the extra for it. If you buy one that looks the same and essentially does the same job, but don't know where it came from, you might get lucky, but then it might stop working and be faulty.

The same with plumbers, electricians and builders, it's all about word of mouth. You go for the one that has the reputation for providing a good quality job without ripping you off, it's no different.

As consumers we can shout as loud as we like that we wish they charged less for their call out, but we still know if we want the job done well, we are going to have to pay that premium.

aare

Hilly Bill wrote: »

WHAT??????? Are you for real?

They are all real sex workers, its just that some are working more freely than others .

Sorry, no offence, but I seriously haven't got a clue what to say to anyone who buys into propaganda to that extent...it's like trying to discuss leprechauns or something.

aare

CK73 wrote: »

Agreed, but the fact that some charge more than others, has nothing to do with greed, it has more to do with where they see themselves in line with what is on offer and what they offer. I suppose it is a bit like buying a generic item or a branded one. If the brand is known to do what it says on the tin and is consistently shown to be good quality, then you are prepared to pay the extra for it. If you buy one that looks the same and essentially does the same job, but don't know where it came from, you might get lucky, but then it might stop working and be faulty.

The same with plumbers, electricians and builders, it's all about word of mouth. You go for the one that has the reputation for providing a good quality job without ripping you off, it's no different.

As consumers we can shout as loud as we like that we wish they charged less for their call out, but we still know if we want the job done well, we are going to have to pay that premium.

Some of it probably *IS* greed (particularly builders) but if they are happy with their prices and people are paying them it is nobody's business but their own.

Hilly Bill

aare wrote: »

Sorry, no offence, but I seriously haven't got a clue what to say to anyone who buys into propaganda to that extent...it's like trying to discuss leprechauns or something.

I dont think its as big a problem as whats been written but it is happening . To think otherwise is just naive.

Grayson

Hilly Bill wrote: »

WHAT??????? Are you for real?

They are all real sex workers, its just that some are working more freely than others .

See, here's the thing. You're comparing factory workers to people who have been trafficked and are being forced to work in a factory without leaving.

Legalising prostitution would not make a place with a trafficked girl any less illegal. that would still be trafficking and slavery. But it would mean that the other worker, who chooses the profession, has more freedom and protection.

It may even mean that dodgy brothels with trafficked girls would do less business.

Just like legalising drugs does not make drug dealers more powerful. I mean who's going to bother trying to find a dodgy dealer when they can get good product in a shop.
The same would go for sex.

Grayson

Hilly Bill wrote: »

I dont think its as big a problem as whats been written but it is happening . To think otherwise is just naive.

So, what percent? I honestly have no idea how widespread it is. But do you know? (from some kinda independent source. Not a group of nuns if that's possible).

CK73

aare wrote: »

Some of it probably *IS* greed (particularly builders) but if they are happy with their prices and people are paying them it is nobody's business but their own.

One lady I spoke to who charges e260 per hour told me that she decided upon that rate, because her clients seem to want to stop and chat afterwards and she didn't want to clock watch and enjoyed the banter, but needed to know that she was not pressured to move on.

Having met some of her clients while I was there, I can see where she was coming from and if she was happy to provide that kind of service and it worked for her and her clients, then it is set at the correct rate for her.

Generally when employing a builder, most people will get 3 quotes and then look for references. The builder that charges too much, will likely get less work and attract a little 'snobbery', but if this is what they want, ie less bookings, but at a higher rate, then it works for them. I doubt you would find someone charging e160 ph taking 10+ bookings a day, in the same way a e50 ph would.

Hilly Bill

CK73 wrote: »

Agreed, but the fact that some charge more than others, has nothing to do with greed, it has more to do with where they see themselves in line with what is on offer and what they offer. I suppose it is a bit like buying a generic item or a branded one. If the brand is known to do what it says on the tin and is consistently shown to be good quality, then you are prepared to pay the extra for it. If you buy one that looks the same and essentially does the same job, but don't know where it came from, you might get lucky, but then it might stop working and be faulty.

The same with plumbers, electricians and builders, it's all about word of mouth. You go for the one that has the reputation for providing a good quality job without ripping you off, it's no different.

As consumers we can shout as loud as we like that we wish they charged less for their call out, but we still know if we want the job done well, we are going to have to pay that premium.

With sex workers the higher the premium doesnt mean premium service. Thats were the greed comes in.

Hilly Bill

Grayson wrote: »

So, what percent? I honestly have no idea how widespread it is. But do you know? (from some kinda independent source. Not a group of nuns if that's possible).

The percentage i would guess would be on the low side.

aare

CK73 wrote: »

Generally when employing a builder, most people will get 3 quotes

...and I suppose there is nothing to prevent people getting 3 quotes from sex workers too if price is REALLY that important to them...but having public discussions aimed at forcing prices down is just nasty and should never be encouraged.

CK73

Hilly Bill wrote: »

With sex workers the higher the premium doesnt mean premium service. Thats were the greed comes in.

I would imagine the ones with high rates who don't provide a good service reflect this in their feedback?

Hilly Bill

Grayson wrote: »

See, here's the thing. You're comparing factory workers to people who have been trafficked and are being forced to work in a factory without leaving.

Legalising prostitution would not make a place with a trafficked girl any less illegal. that would still be trafficking and slavery. But it would mean that the other worker, who chooses the profession, has more freedom and protection.

It may even mean that dodgy brothels with trafficked girls would do less business.

Just like legalising drugs does not make drug dealers more powerful. I mean who's going to bother trying to find a dodgy dealer when they can get good product in a shop.
The same would go for sex.

Where did these factory workers come from?

CK73

aare wrote: »

...and I suppose there is nothing to prevent people getting 3 quotes from sex workers too if price is REALLY that important to them...but having public discussions aimed at forcing prices down is just nasty and should never be encouraged.

Did I say it wasn't? I personally would not entertain a haggler either. The fact is clients are just regular people and in amongst them are the good, bad and ugly. People are not perfect, or we would have a perfect word.

CK73

Grayson wrote: »

So, what percent? I honestly have no idea how widespread it is. But do you know? (from some kinda independent source. Not a group of nuns if that's possible).

Does this help? Stats

Hilly Bill

CK73 wrote: »

I would imagine the ones with high rates who don't provide a good service reflect this in their feedback?

Maybe, but they are thought more highly of by their fellow workers than someone who is charging less and offer a better service simply because they are not seen as a threat.

the_syco

sexworkie wrote: »

This notion that the majority of sex workers are not willingly sex workers is coming from religious organisations like Ruhama.

And holy fcuking christ, they know ALL about forcing enslaved women to do their dirty work!