Exclusion of Sex Workers from Justice Committee

Hilly Bill

sexworkie wrote: »

I'd strongly disagree. But if they are always ignored and denied a voice nobody will ever know.

Try starting a price thread on E-I and see how your voice is denied then .

aare

Hilly Bill wrote: »

Try starting a price thread on E-I and see how your voice is denied then .

What is a "price thread"?

Nodin

The Th!ng wrote: »

I think Shatter genuinely wants to do the right thing, but he is being thwarted in his goals by Ruhama, et al who are only interested in what is best for themselves, not the prostitutes.

Mr Shatter is a member of Fine Gael, not it's leader and its fairly clear that many of the current crop of FG TD's are fairly socially conservative. I'd blame that, rather than an organisation outside the power loop.

Hilly Bill

aare wrote: »

What is a "price thread"?

A thread on the prices charged by certain ladies.

goose2005

ScumLord wrote: »

That's like saying farmers aren't an authority on social policy making why should we listen to them when coming up with regulations on farming. Economists aren't social policy makers, why should we listen to them...

The prostitutes are the people that know the facts, they live it day in and day out, they know what the customers want and why they use prostitutes, they know who are the victims and who wants to do the job. It is idiotic to not talk to the people who actually live the life and design the market. Because the fact is no matter what laws or policies the government comes up with these people will continue to do what they're doing. All we're talking about is how we react to the fact that prostitution happens and there's no way to stop it.

Yeah, that'd be like having a group of life-long celibates decide on the morality of sex, marriage, contraception, divorce etc.

CK73 wrote: »

It should also be noted that a report issued by the Police in Sweden shows that trafficking investigations have gone up by over 500% since the Swedish Model came into place. When there were no huge differences in trafficking after the first few years, they upped their game and invested a lot more money into finding trafficked women and started to get results.

This shows that either the Swedish model does not work to abolish trafficking, as there is more than ever before, or they were simply letting them down before and not putting enough money, time and effort into finding them. Either way, the legislation to criminalize men paying for sex, has not worked.

Also, under the Swedish model it's harder for prostitutes to get clients because the clients are nervous of arrest - so they work through middlemen, i.e. pimps.

CK73

Hilly Bill wrote: »

A thread on the prices charged by certain ladies.

Who is objecting to these pricing threads?

aare

Hilly Bill wrote: »

A thread on the prices charged by certain ladies.

That sounds like a really boring and ignorant thing for anyone to discuss.

CK73

goose2005 wrote: »

Yeah, that'd be like having a group of life-long celibates decide on the morality of sex, marriage, contraception, divorce etc.



Also, under the Swedish model it's harder for prostitutes to get clients because the clients are nervous of arrest - so they work through middlemen, i.e. pimps.

It has also been noted that there is a rise in single parents and STI's as the Sex Workers are scared to be found with condoms, as this is used in evidence against the client and they then become subjected to being watched, in order to arrest more men.

Hilly Bill

aare wrote: »

That sounds like a really boring and ignorant thing for anyone to discuss.

Not if you were the consumer.

Hilly Bill

CK73 wrote: »

Who is objecting to these pricing threads?

Who do you think. Its a bit like shops like Brown Thomas complaining about people who shop in Penneys.

Sweet Rachel

CK73 wrote: »

Who is objecting to these pricing threads?

Escorts do ... Is not nice for our customers to stick their nose in our business ..lol

CK73

Hilly Bill wrote: »

Who do you think. Its a bit like shops like Brown Thomas complaining about people who shop in Penneys.

I would have thought it was the Sex workers who were tired of being under cut. I guess that is not what you were saying though?

aare

Hilly Bill wrote: »

Not if you were the consumer.

I honestly, seriously cannot believe that there are men sad enough to have nothing better to do with their time than compare notes on how much money they pay for nookie.

Nodin

aare wrote: »

I honestly, seriously cannot believe that there are men sad enough to have nothing better to do with their time than compare notes on how much money they pay for nookie.

Ye are? I've heard grown men argue about how bruce lee would have done against mike tyson....

CK73

aare wrote: »

I honestly, seriously cannot believe that there are men sad enough to have nothing better to do with their time than compare notes on how much money they pay for nookie.

There is a recession on don't you know!

Nodin

CK73 wrote: »

There is a recession on don't you know!

'Yes, but you're still fat and don't wash properly' etc etc.

Hilly Bill

Sweet Rachel wrote: »

Escorts do ... Is not nice for our customers to stick their nose in our business ..lol

To back on topic, i agree that you should be included but how will they know who are the genuine independent workers or not? They all have their own story to tell as to why they are in the business but i would say that the genuine independent worker is a rare breed so finding a few that would be prepared to speak on a committee wont be that easy.

aare

Nodin wrote: »

Ye are? I've heard grown men argue about how bruce lee would have done against mike tyson....

*shudders* Wouldn't it serve a far better purpose to criminalise that sort of thing?

...and criminalise it A LOT too?

Nodin

aare wrote: »

*shudders* Wouldn't it serve a far better purpose to criminalise that sort of thing?

...and criminalise it A LOT too?

...people would only end up doing shady deals with others and paying for their illicit shite-talk.

aare

Hilly Bill wrote: »

To back on topic, i agree that you should be included but how will they know who are the genuine independent workers or not? They all have their own story to tell as to why they are in the business but i would say that the genuine independent worker is a rare breed so finding a few that would be prepared to speak on a committee wont be that easy.

I know a lot of sex workers would rather work together for safety and company but surely they are the very people who SHOULD be speaking to the committee and explaining the facts?

aare

Nodin wrote: »

...people would only end up doing shady deals with others and paying for their illicit shite-talk.

Ah, but if we are to pay any heed to that guy from the Corpo the illicit shite-talk would be a LOT less weird than it is now?

Hilly Bill

CK73 wrote: »

I would have thought it was the Sex workers who were tired of being under cut. I guess that is not what you were saying though?

Its a free market without a set price so some will charge less to make more but the greedy ones dont like it and then accuse the other workers of being trafficked , write false reviews etc .

CK73

Hilly Bill wrote: »

To back on topic, i agree that you should be included but how will they know who are the genuine independent workers or not? They all have their own story to tell as to why they are in the business but i would say that the genuine independent worker is a rare breed so finding a few that would be prepared to speak on a committee wont be that easy.

How do you know that they didn't contact the committee directly and offer their voice to be heard? I personally know several Sex Workers that did volunteer their time to represent themselves.

Hilly Bill

aare wrote: »

I know a lot of sex workers would rather work together for safety and company but surely they are the very people who SHOULD be speaking to the committee and explaining the facts?

I agree, but there may be suspicion that they are being put up for it by someone else and not of their free will even though they may be 100% indo.

aare

Hilly Bill wrote: »

Its a free market without a set price so some will charge less to make more but the greedy ones dont like it and then accuse the other workers of being trafficked , write false reviews etc .

Wow!!!

That is FASCINATING...

Half the country must be unable to sleep at night for the want of knowing that stuff.
:rolleyes:

Hilly Bill

CK73 wrote: »

How do you know that they didn't contact the committee directly and offer their voice to be heard? I personally know several Sex Workers that did volunteer their time to represent themselves.

I didnt say that they havent. Im sure that 1 or 2 have.

Hilly Bill

aare wrote: »

Wow!!!

That is FASCINATING...

Half the country must be unable to sleep at night for the want of knowing that stuff.
:rolleyes:

I wouldnt have gone that far now

aare

Hilly Bill wrote: »

I agree, but there may be suspicion that they are being put up for it by someone else and not of their free will even though they may be 100% indo.

Well if it is not of their free will surely they can say so, same way they can object to "price threads"?

aare

Hilly Bill wrote: »

I didnt say that they havent. Im sure that 1 or 2 have.

To get this a bit back on track, isn't this thread about the Justice Committee refusing to see sex workers rather than sex workers refusing to see the Justice Committee?
:rolleyes:

...and I would have thought they should see any sex workers who have something to say regardless of their perceived "independent" status...how can someone tell you whether she is trafficked and coerced of you refuse to see her at all?

Hilly Bill

aare wrote: »

Well if it is not of their free will surely they can say so, same way they can object to "price threads"?

Thats the point that you are missing, some cant.

The way the country is going then the government would be mad not to legalise the genuine indo workers who share apartments etc with 2 or 3 other genuine indo workers and tax them but i doubt that girls wouldnt wont that either .