Vegetarianism

_GOD_

Been vegetarian for nearly 18 years now, only have cheese about once a month otherwise I'd be vegan.

I never gave much thought into the health aspect of it, most health advantages were well outweighed by drink/smokes/drugs and crisps for years. But you can be healthy or unhealthy on either veggie diet or omnivorous diet.

smash

weisses wrote: »

Eat your meat raw ... you know like all the other meat eating species

Lets see how many "meat eaters" are left after 1 month

Fukcing omnivore wannabees

Well that was a dumb post considering we're more advanced than other species and they don't know how to cook.

Popinjay

weisses wrote: »

Eat your meat raw ... you know like all the other meat eating species

Lets see how many "meat eaters" are left after 1 month

Fukcing omnivore wannabees

http://www.inspection.gc.ca/food/consumer-centre/food-safety-tips/specific-products-and-risks/natural-toxins/eng/1332276569292/1332276685336

Race you.

There's no cyanide in beef

weisses

awec wrote: »

Do you eat all your veg raw?

I imagine not, given that raw veg is hard to digest and can cause abdominal pain if you eat it too much and too often.

I eat loads of veg raw .. .. secret is in chewing

But if people want to compare themselves to omnivores .. then they need to eat their meat raw .. like the omnivores

_GOD_

smash wrote: »

Well that was a dumb post considering we're more advanced than other species and they don't know how to cook.

I dunno, my dog makes an interesting stew of floor kibble and old socks. He's like feckin Heston Blumenthal

weisses

smash wrote: »

Well that was a dumb post considering we're more advanced than other species and they don't know how to cook.

No .. they don't need to cook their meat ...big difference

awec

weisses wrote: »

I eat loads of veg raw .. .. secret is in chewing

But if people want to compare themselves to omnivores .. then they need to eat their meat raw .. like the omnivores

You do realise that your body is unable to digest that raw veg as well as it would if it were cooked?

Either way, it's not the raw meat that's the problem, its' the bacteria on it.

If you take a carrot dosed with salmonella you're going to end up sick as well.

Your argument is thin at best.

KyussBishop

What are some good examples of vegetarian meals, that are actually nice to eat? (genuine question, not being cynical)

I'll never stop eating meat entirely, but if there are any vegetarian meals that are actually appetizing, I'd probably try to convert to mostly eating them.

--Kaiser--

weisses wrote: »

Eat your meat raw ... you know like all the other meat eating species

Lets see how many "meat eaters" are left after 1 month

Fukcing omnivore wannabees

Is this your argument against human meat eating? That lions haven't invented fire?

Popinjay

awec wrote: »

Your argument is thin at best.

And laced with delicious cyanide.

smash

weisses wrote: »

No .. they don't need to cook their meat ...big difference

We don't really need to cook beef or fish... but we do.

Popinjay

KyussBishop wrote: »

What are some good examples of vegetarian meals, that are actually nice to eat? (genuine question, not being cynical)

I'll never stop eating meat entirely, but if there are any vegetarian meals that are actually appetizing, I'd probably try to convert to mostly eating them.

Pretty much any vegetarian curry. Usually made with lentils and chickpeas and the like, but not always.

Then again, I'm a sucker for Indian food and would prefer the spice combination to the presence of meat any day.

Not that you can beat a good lamb curry (Need a licking the lips smiley)

awec

smash wrote: »

We don't really need to cook beef or fish... but we do.

Indeed, I enjoy sushi.

Bears, an omnivore species, enjoy raw salmon. So do I.

I eat my steak rare. Provided the bacteria on the outside is killed off it's perfectly fine to eat.

Ush1

awec wrote: »

Indeed, I enjoy sushi.

Bears, an omnivore species, enjoy raw salmon. So do I.

I eat my steak rare. Provided the bacteria on the outside is killed off it's perfectly fine to eat.

Parts of the Netherlands eat raw mince as a snack and as long as bacteria free it's perfectly fine.

Steak tartare is good also.

_GOD_

KyussBishop wrote: »

What are some good examples of vegetarian meals, that are actually nice to eat? (genuine question, not being cynical)

I'll never stop eating meat entirely, but if there are any vegetarian meals that are actually appetizing, I'd probably try to convert to mostly eating them.

There are a million and one, the vegetarian and vegan forum has a lot of recipes.

If you avoid the mindset of 'I have to replace meat with something' and instead just start with good ingredients then your more likely to end up with something good. I make vegan burgers, burritos, moussakas, lasagnas, noodles, canneloni, southern fried tofu etc. Almost anything can be made vegan or vegitarian

Meat is just one type of ingredient and its like making recipes that dont involve beans or pulses. Personally I'd usually avoid the fake meat stuff too (except Linda McCartney sausages)

weisses

awec wrote: »

You do realise that your body is unable to digest that raw veg as well as it would if it were cooked?

Either way, it's not the raw meat that's the problem, its' the bacteria on it.

If you take a carrot dosed with salmonella you're going to end up sick as well.

Your argument is thin at best.

Then why are people comparing us to omnivores ???

I used to eat raw fish ... raw meat and raw veggies ( not in one meal)

Why are people saying we are meat eaters when we cannot eat it like other proper meat eaters ?

Popinjay

weisses wrote: »

Why are people saying we are meat eaters when we cannot eat it like other proper meat eaters ?

Why do people call monkeys omnivores when they can't use fire like proper omnivores.

Wait, I used something stupid to try to extrapolate something sensible but the world and reality don't work that way.

weisses

--Kaiser-- wrote: »

Is this your argument against human meat eating? That lions haven't invented fire?

Yep and tigers are crap at making a proper pepper sauce

If you want to be the tough omnivore ...kill an animal and eat it raw ... like a proper omnivore


... or stop pretending we humans are omnivores

weisses

Popinjay wrote: »

Why do people call monkeys omnivores when they can't use fire like proper omnivores.

What other proper omnivores can use a fire ?


don't say humans because they are not proper omnivores

Bad Santa

dr.bollocko wrote: »

Most of the scientific community found it to be quite interesting bullshit.

Indeed, the page I found those points on was on a Wiki page attempting to retort them:

http://wiki.answers.com/Q/Are_humans_vegetarian_by_nature

There are many more like that, were an attempt is made to address those points and at times some of those counterpoints were very well made and science employed to do so, but mostly, it is done in a very wishy washy way and no matter how strenuous an argument is made, if it's not sufficient, it's ultimately wishy washy and that goes for both sides of the divide.

weisses wrote: »

I eat loads of veg raw .. .. secret is in chewing

But if people want to compare themselves to omnivores .. then they need to eat their meat raw .. like the omnivores

That's the thing about humans and their meat consumption though. 99.9% of the time humans will eat animals they have not killed with their bare hands. They slather it in and surround it with, plant based foods. Steak Tartare, Sashimi and Carpaccio being some exceptions but even these examples of raw meat will be a far cry from a human actually having to sink their teeth into an animal's flesh and tear it apart themselves.

I have gone without food many times in my life, to the point where I would have stolen to eat and yet never was any animals / pets roaming passed my house in danger of my pouncing on them and ripping them apart for sustenance.

Looking back to when I was a kid. When we were out playing, we used to raid orchards, pick berries and even once stole garden peas from one of our neighbors. On one occasion one of mates eat loads of ants as a bet and seemed to like it to. Can't recall us ever getting so famished we killed an animal though. Nor indeed do I ever remember us scavenging on any dead animals that we happened upon.

I see no science to back up claims that we need to consume animals. The B12 argument is a joke. Have one family member and two friends who get regular B12 shots and all three eat meat daily.

Nah, humans are vegans by nature and omnivores by choice.

I eat steak because I want to, not because I have to.

--Kaiser--

weisses wrote: »

What other proper omnivores can use a fire ?


don't say humans because they are not proper omnivores

Define a proper omnivore for me. Amuse me

Popinjay

weisses wrote: »

don't say humans because they are not proper omnivores

I hate it when everybody who doesn't agree with my specific idealogical viewpoint disagrees with me. It makes it feel like I'm resorting to pseudoscience and downright terrible thinking and standards of evidence.

Then again, I'm not the one making up stories. So that's not happening to me this time.

Like it or not, humans evolved as, and to continue to be, omnivores. No amount of clapping your hands and shouting "I do belive in fairies" loud enough to drown out the supporting evidence will make that evidence less real and your apparent belief that something other than this might be the case worries me for the general future of the human race and the planet we occupy. Especially since it's the attitude your allies the climate change deniers adopt so readily.

Bad Santa wrote: »

far cry from a human actually having to sink their teeth into an animal's flesh and tear it apart themselves.

You're quite right, personal revulsion or reluctance is absolutely based solely upon this and has absolutley no confluence with other changing attitudes.

Similarly, my reluctance to take my missus roughly from behind in front of a baying crowd of West Ham fans is surely a sign that people evolved to have sex through a hole cut in the sheets.

Are you serious? And if so, has the lack of meat and essential Omega 3 damaged your brain meats?

--Kaiser--

Bad Santa wrote: »

Nah, humans are vegans by nature and omnivores by choice.

I eat steak because I want to, not because I have to.

I can't tell if you are trolling or genuinely clueless

awec

weisses wrote: »

Then why are people comparing us to omnivores ???

I used to eat raw fish ... raw meat and raw veggies ( not in one meal)

Why are people saying we are meat eaters when we cannot eat it like other proper meat eaters ?

We can eat it like other meat eaters. It wouldn't be particularly nice but we could eat it.

We cannot eat bacteria such as salmonella.

Shenshen

KyussBishop wrote: »

What are some good examples of vegetarian meals, that are actually nice to eat? (genuine question, not being cynical)

I'll never stop eating meat entirely, but if there are any vegetarian meals that are actually appetizing, I'd probably try to convert to mostly eating them.

Depends, what "cuisine" do you prefer?

Mediterranean, I'd suggest Falafel with a few leaves of lettuce, some sliced cucumber and onion in a toasted pitta bread, drizzled with tsatziki and harissa (no, not original, but yumm!), with a side of couscous with small diced tomatoes, olives and spring onions.

Add a bit of houmous, too, if you like.

Indian, I'd go for a lentil dahl with potato-cauliflower fritters

Fry some chopped onion and grated ginger and garlic until soft. Add a teaspoon each of turmeric, curry powder and ground fenugreek and keep frying for another minute.
Add 1 cup of red lentil and 1 tin of chopped tomatoes. Simmer on low heat until lentils are soft, then add a small tin of coconut milk. Season with salt and about half a teaspoon of sugar (trust me!)
For the fritters, mash some boiled potatoes and boiled cauliflower, add 1 egg, salt and half a teaspoon of curry powder. To thicken, add a little chickpea flour or regular flour and mix it all into a dough.
Portion them into bite-sized balls with a teaspoon and fry on all sides till golden.

UK/Ireland, try vegetable pie.
I usually boil some chopped vegetable in stock (carrots, peas, cauliflower, broccoli, turnip, whatever you have) until soft.
Drain, but keep the stock.
Make a roux by heating some oil in a pot and adding an equal amount of flour. Stir until it's nicely mixed through, then add the stock in small quantities while stirring until you've got a nice thick sauce. Add a good handful of grated cheddar, and a bit of salt.
Return the veg into the sauce, then fill it all into a pie dish lined with puff pastry.
Another sheet of puff pastry on top, and into the oven for 20 mins or so.
I sometimes make small pies in a muffin try, as they're easier to take to work for leftover lunch the next day.

jonnyfingers

The simplest way to put it is we can choose any sustainable diet we like. Some may be better for you than others.

Currently I'm choosing a vegan diet as I've weighed up the pros and cons and I've decided it's better for me than any other diet. Others disagree and that's fine.

weisses

--Kaiser-- wrote: »

Define a proper omnivore for me. Amuse me

What other omnivore need to cook their meet (killing a lot of the nutrients in the process ) to make it eatable/digestible/tasty ?? for my amusement

if you cannot answer that ..stop comparing humans to omnivores ...

Popinjay

Shenshen wrote: »

Indian, I'd go for a lentil dahl with potato-cauliflower fritters

I generally just make a metric ton of curry (I prefer Rogan Josh or Jal Frezi) using more pulses than would normally be considered sane.

But like I said earlier, with Indian food the meat is just something for the sauce to cling to while I move it towards my mouth.

Generally I find that beyond shorter cooking times, since you don't need to pre-brown or thoroughly cook meant, vegetarian Indian dishes are quicker and easier.

Once you plan ahead and pre-soak the pulses of course.

About the only bean that doesn't seem to work with Indian is the Kidney Bean and I'm pretty sure that's just a personal taste thing.

Popinjay

weisses wrote: »

What other omnivore need to cook their meet

None, including humans. There is no need to cook meat. This has been said to you more than once.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cooking#History

Even something as simple as this might help you to educate your god-damned self instead of spouting useless platitudes. Don't forget to read the references too.

And try not to skip this bit:

Wrangham proposed cooking was instrumental in human evolution, as it reduced the time required for foraging and led to an increase in brain size. Since meat has a higher energy density than vegetables, and cooking it allows more nutrients to be liberated to the body, the introduction of cooked meat in the human diet reduced the energy requirements of the digestive system. He estimates the percentage decrease in gut size of early humans directly correlates to the increase in brain size.

jonnyfingers

As for some good veggie/vegan dishes, this is a sample of what I've eaten over the last week.

Veggie Chili, Spaghetti Bolognese, Tofu and Pesto Pasta, Chinese Veg Stir Fry, Sweet Potato and Kidney Bean Curry, Seitan Stroganoff, Artichoke Heart Salad, Carrot and Parsnip Soup, Aubergine, Courgette and Pepper Jalfrezi and a Veggie Burger and Curry Chips .