Vegetarianism

Tombo2001

HTML5! wrote: »

I've read articles claiming it's healthier to be one. Is it really though?

Anyone ever tried it?

Any converts that are feeling way better since becoming one?

I think it would be far too difficult for me to give up meat!

I have to laugh at this.

I think one guy tried it one time, didnt fancy it, took up Atkins instead.

bronte

speedboatchase wrote: »

Has anyone ever met someone who is dating a vegetarian but who has not been forced into vegetarianism by them? Not me.

Every vegetarian I know who is in a relationship has a partner who is not vegetarian. You must know some very controlling people.

--Kaiser--

speedboatchase wrote: »

Has anyone ever met someone who is dating a vegetarian but who has not been forced into vegetarianism by them? Not me.

I have met several actually. You'd have to be pretty spineless adult to have a diet foisted on you by another person

smash

Whoever invented Quorn should be shot! It's revolting stuff.

Bad Santa

smash wrote: »

Whoever invented Quorn should be shot! It's revolting stuff.

You would say that.

Face it, nobody likes reconstituted potatoe granules anymore, we've moved on.

Shenshen

smash wrote: »

Whoever invented Quorn should be shot! It's revolting stuff.

Don't eat it, then.

I don't mind the chicken style things, but I'm not keen on the burgers.

Shenshen

Bad Santa wrote: »

You would say that.

Face it, nobody likes reconstituted potatoe granules anymore, we've moved on.

What, Pringles?

smash

Shenshen wrote: »

Don't eat it, then.

I don't mind the chicken style things, but I'm not keen on the burgers.

I had it when someone bought it to make bolognese and neither of us could eat it. Tried quorn chicken burgers too and found them tasteless.

I've had some delicious vegetarian meals but not enough to make me want to give up meat. Brambles do a savage Spinach Croustad for example.

jonnyfingers

I went from full on carnivore to vegan at the start of the year. Just coming up on a month being mostly vegan, with the occasional vegetarian day (chocolate.....mmmmm). I decided to make the change after watching a very good documentary, Vegucated, on Netflix which made convincing arguments for the health benefits of a vegan diet, and the economic benefits too which I wasn't so aware of.

In the documentary three meat eaters take on a 6 week vegan challenge. Before they start they get a health check from a doctor, weight, blood pressure and cholesterol. After the 6 weeks they get another health check. In each case they lost weight and, more importantly, their blood pressure and cholesterol improved significantly.

Now I know that even documentaries can bend the truth so that's why I tried it out for myself. So far I've lost almost 10lbs in weight, with no noticeable difference in muscle mass. I haven't had my blood pressure or cholesterol checked but I feel healthier if that makes sense. I'm sleeping better, ****ting better, fell mentally more alert and rarely get that sleepy, bloated feeling you get after eating a big steak or roast dinner.

Economically I've saved a lot of money as the vegetables and canned goods I buy are much cheaper than meat. I don't have to worry about cross contamination in the kitchen between veg and meat or making sure meat is fresh and safely cooked.

What's more I had some venison when in Paris midway through my vegan challenge. Now usually I love venison but it's like my taste buds have changed, it was just bland and very uninteresting. The vegetables that accompanied it tasted amazing though. And before when I went shopping I bought the same old vegetables and really let the meat dictate the dish. Now I'm now loving the fact that I need to try different vegetables, cook with grains and pulses, use alternative ingredients to make creamy sauces, etc. It's like learning to cook all over again and I really enjoy that.

So it's working out for me and I plan to stick with veganism for now.

There are a few downsides thought.

1. You have to prepare a lot of your own food. Even over here near London vegans and vegetarians are not very well accommodated when it comes to eating out.
2. Chocolate and Cheese are very hard to replicate without using dairy products. So if you're addicted to either or both you might struggle initially. But to be honest I need to cut down on chocolate and cheese so it's probably a good thing!
3. Be prepared to have the piss taken out of you by family and friends. For some reason people get angry and defensive when you tell them you've decided not to eat meat or animal products. Even if you show them demonstrable evidence why it's not a bad choice they take it as a personal insult. So I pretty much keep it to myself. If it comes up in conversation I mention it and then leave it go.

But to anyone considering a vegan or vegetarian diet, I say go for it but stick with it for at least a month to feel the benefits. And before you make the change do a good bit of research on recipes and meal plans as you really do need to plan ahead when it comes to eating.

bluewhitehoops

watching clips of what goes on in the slaughterhouse on youtube was nearly enough turn me into a vegetarian but no way I could stop eating meat for good

Popinjay

--Kaiser-- wrote: »

That and the fact that a vegetarian diet is generally a luxury for wealthy westerners who have a wide variety of food at the fingertips.

Indeed, a quick five minutes research will show the effects of the Quinoa obsession on people that used to rely on it as a staple.

However, my impression was that the majority of people living in LDC's (or whatever the current term for '3rd-world' is) had a majority vegetarian, if not vegan, diet.

Admittedly, meat is a rare bonus in these instances and the vegetarianism tends to be by necessity rather than choice.

--Kaiser--

bluewhitehoops wrote: »

watching clips of what goes on in the slaughterhouse on youtube was nearly enough turn me into a vegetarian but no way I could stop eating meat for good

Modern slaughterhouses are specifically designed to be least stressful to the animal. You can find videos of people mistreating animals, sure, but it's not the norm. If you saw a video of someone mistreating a kid would it put you off having kids yourself? (not a great analogy now that I think about it)

--Kaiser--

Popinjay wrote: »

However, my impression was that the majority of people living in LDC's (or whatever the current term for '3rd-world' is) had a majority vegetarian, if not vegan, diet.

Admittedly, meat is a rare bonus in these instances and the vegetarianism tends to be by necessity rather than choice.

Bang. Not out of choice. Poor people don't choose to have restricted diets. It would be like describing the famine-stricken Irish of the mid 19th century as primarily vegan

kylith

jonnyfingers wrote: »

I went from full on carnivore to vegan at the start of the year. Just coming up on a month being mostly vegan, with the occasional vegetarian day (chocolate.....mmmmm). I decided to make the change after watching a very good documentary, Vegucated, on Netflix which made convincing arguments for the health benefits of a vegan diet, and the economic benefits too which I wasn't so aware of.

In the documentary three meat eaters take on a 6 week vegan challenge. Before they start they get a health check from a doctor, weight, blood pressure and cholesterol. After the 6 weeks they get another health check. In each case they lost weight and, more importantly, their blood pressure and cholesterol improved significantly.

Now I know that even documentaries can bend the truth so that's why I tried it out for myself. So far I've lost almost 10lbs in weight, with no noticeable difference in muscle mass. I haven't had my blood pressure or cholesterol checked but I feel healthier if that makes sense. I'm sleeping better, ****ting better, fell mentally more alert and rarely get that sleepy, bloated feeling you get after eating a big steak or roast dinner.

Economically I've saved a lot of money as the vegetables and canned goods I buy are much cheaper than meat. I don't have to worry about cross contamination in the kitchen between veg and meat or making sure meat is fresh and safely cooked.

What's more I had some venison when in Paris midway through my vegan challenge. Now usually I love venison but it's like my taste buds have changed, it was just bland and very uninteresting. The vegetables that accompanied it tasted amazing though. And before when I went shopping I bought the same old vegetables and really let the meat dictate the dish. Now I'm now loving the fact that I need to try different vegetables, cook with grains and pulses, use alternative ingredients to make creamy sauces, etc. It's like learning to cook all over again and I really enjoy that.

So it's working out for me and I plan to stick with veganism for now.

There are a few downsides thought.

1. You have to prepare a lot of your own food. Even over here near London vegans and vegetarians are not very well accommodated when it comes to eating out.
2. Chocolate and Cheese are very hard to replicate without using dairy products. So if you're addicted to either or both you might struggle initially. But to be honest I need to cut down on chocolate and cheese so it's probably a good thing!
3. Be prepared to have the piss taken out of you by family and friends. For some reason people get angry and defensive when you tell them you've decided not to eat meat or animal products. Even if you show them demonstrable evidence why it's not a bad choice they take it as a personal insult. So I pretty much keep it to myself. If it comes up in conversation I mention it and then leave it go.

But to anyone considering a vegan or vegetarian diet, I say go for it but stick with it for at least a month to feel the benefits. And before you make the change do a good bit of research on recipes and meal plans as you really do need to plan ahead when it comes to eating.

What supplements are you taking?

Bad Santa

Found the following quite interesting:

Anatomically and physiologically, people are herbivores.

Facial Muscles
Carnivore: Reduced to allow wide mouth gape
Herbivore: Well-developed
Omnivore: Reduced
Human: Well-developed
Jaw Type
Carnivore: Angle not expanded
Herbivore: Expanded angle
Omnivore: Angle not expanded
Human: Expanded angle
Jaw Joint Location
Carnivore: On same plane as molar teeth
Herbivore: Above the plane of the molars
Omnivore: On same plane as molar teeth
Human: Above the plane of the molars
Jaw Motion
Carnivore: Shearing; minimal side-to-side motion
Herbivore: No shear; good side-to-side, front-to-back
Omnivore: Shearing; minimal side-to-side
Human: No shear; good side-to-side, front-to-back
Major Jaw Muscles
Carnivore: Temporalis
Herbivore: Masseter and pterygoids
Omnivore: Temporalis
Human: Masseter and pterygoids
Mouth Opening vs. Head Size
Carnivore: Large
Herbivore: Small
Omnivore: Large
Human: Small
Teeth (Incisors)
Carnivore: Short and pointed
Herbivore: Broad, flattened and spade shaped
Omnivore: Short and pointed
Human: Broad, flattened and spade shaped
Teeth (Canines)
Carnivore: Long, sharp and curved
Herbivore: Dull and short or long (for defense), or none
Omnivore: Long, sharp and curved
Human: Short and blunted
Teeth (Molars)
Carnivore: Sharp, jagged and blade shaped
Herbivore: Flattened with cusps vs complex surface
Omnivore: Sharp blades and/or flattened
Human: Flattened with nodular cusps
Chewing
Carnivore: None; swallows food whole
Herbivore: Extensive chewing necessary
Omnivore: Swallows food whole and/or simple crushing
Human: Extensive chewing necessary
Saliva
Carnivore: No digestive enzymes
Herbivore: Carbohydrate digesting enzymes
Omnivore: No digestive enzymes
Human: Carbohydrate digesting enzymes
Stomach
Carnivore: Simple
Herbivore: Simple or multiple chambers
Omnivore: Simple
Human: Simple
Stomach Acidity
Carnivore: Less than or equal to pH 1 with food in stomach
Herbivore: pH 4 to 5 with food in stomach
Omnivore: Less than or equal to pH 1 with food in stomach
Human: pH 4 to 5 with food in stomach
Stomach Capacity
Carnivore: 60% to 70% of total volume of digestive tract
Herbivore: Less than 30% of total volume of digestive tract
Omnivore: 60% to 70% of total volume of digestive tract
Human: 21% to 27% of total volume of digestive tract
Length of Small Intestine
Carnivore: 3 to 6 times body length
Herbivore: 10 to more than 12 times body length
Omnivore: 4 to 6 times body length
Human: 10 to 11 times body length
Colon
Carnivore: Simple, short and smooth
Herbivore: Long, complex; may be sacculated
Omnivore: Simple, short and smooth
Human: Long, sacculated
Liver
Carnivore: Can detoxify vitamin A
Herbivore: Cannot detoxify vitamin A
Omnivore: Can detoxify vitamin A
Human: Cannot detoxify vitamin A
Kidneys
Carnivore: Extremely concentrated urine
Herbivore: Moderately concentrated urine
Omnivore: Extremely concentrated urine
Human: Moderately concentrated urine
Nails
Carnivore: Sharp claws
Herbivore: Flattened nails or blunt hooves
Omnivore: Sharp claws
Human: Flattened nails

dr.bollocko

Bad Santa wrote: »

Found the following quite interesting:

Most of the scientific community found it to be quite interesting bullshit.

Shenshen

Bad Santa wrote: »

Found the following quite interesting:

Seriously, why would that matter?

The fact is, humans are perfectly able to eat and digest vegetables, grains, dairy (well, some of us), and cooked meat and fish.
We CAN eat and digest any of the above.

The question for some people is what they WANT to eat, not what they're possibly meant to.

jonnyfingers

--Kaiser-- wrote: »

Bang. Not out of choice. Poor people don't choose to have restricted diets. It would be like describing the famine-stricken Irish of the mid 19th century as primarily vegan

But technically humans began having a mostly vegetarian diet and only started eating more and more meat as they migrated to colder climates where vegetation wasn't as plentiful all year round. Meat and fish were then added to the diet to sustain them during the colder months. A good example of this is the Eskimos.

Those of us lucky enough to live in areas where vegetables are plentiful don't need to eat meat to sustain us, it's just something that has become ingrained in society. But my point is a vegetarian diet is not a restricted diet. An omnivore diet is a luxury many humans have adopted as the norm. Not that I have a problem with that.

Popinjay

--Kaiser-- wrote: »

It would be like describing the famine-stricken Irish of the mid 19th century as primarily vegan

I'm against cruelty to the common spud. Aren't you?

Bad Santa

Shenshen wrote: »

Seriously, why would that matter?

The fact is, humans are perfectly able to eat and digest vegetables, grains, dairy (well, some of us), and cooked meat and fish.
We CAN eat and digest any of the above.

The question for some people is what they WANT to eat, not what they're possibly meant to.

That might be the question for you but that doesn't make it the question for everybody.


Just because we can digest meat sufficiently (and some would question that) does not mean we should be eating it.

awec

jonnyfingers wrote: »

But technically humans began having a mostly vegetarian diet and only started eating more and more meat as they migrated to colder climates where vegetation wasn't as plentiful all year round. Meat and fish were then added to the diet to sustain them during the colder months. A good example of this is the Eskimos.

Those of us lucky enough to live in areas where vegetables are plentiful don't need to eat meat to sustain us, it's just something that has become ingrained in society. But my point is a vegetarian diet is not a restricted diet. An omnivore diet is a luxury many humans have adopted as the norm. Not that I have a problem with that.

You don't need veg either.

There are substitutes for everything.

Does that mean eating veg is a luxury that society has ingrained on us?

Shenshen

awec wrote: »

You don't need veg either.

There are substitutes for everything.

Does that mean eating veg is a luxury that society has ingrained on us?

I think you'll feel the absence of veg (and fruit) in your diet a lot quicker than you would feel the absence of meat, to be honest.

But then, humans have adapted to that as well.

Let's just agree that eating anything at all is luxury.

--Kaiser--

jonnyfingers wrote: »

But technically humans began having a mostly vegetarian diet and only started eating more and more meat as they migrated to colder climates where vegetation wasn't as plentiful all year round. Meat and fish were then added to the diet to sustain them during the colder months. A good example of this is the Eskimos.

Those of us lucky enough to live in areas where vegetables are plentiful don't need to eat meat to sustain us, it's just something that has become ingrained in society. But my point is a vegetarian diet is not a restricted diet. An omnivore diet is a luxury many humans have adopted as the norm. Not that I have a problem with that.

Absolute bilge of the highest order. Humans were never mostly vegetarian. Pre-human hominids were eating meat for millions of years

homemadecider

I've known both meat eaters and vegetarians who've had horrendous diets. I don't think you can say one is "healthier" than the other.

Consider the below hypothetical day's eating... all vegetarian but not at all healthy!

Breakfast - Special K with milk, white bread with margarine and jam

Lunch - White roll with coleslaw, lettuce, tomato. Packet of crisps. Can of coke.

Dinner - Potato waffles, baked beans, slice of margarita pizza. Two beers.

awec

Shenshen wrote: »

I think you'll feel the absence of veg (and fruit) in your diet a lot quicker than you would feel the absence of meat, to be honest.

But then, humans have adapted to that as well.

Let's just agree that eating anything at all is luxury.

My point is here that there are thin insinuations in this thread that eating meat is unnatural or a result of society forcing it on us.

There are substitutes for everything these days, technically we could exclude meat or veg from our diet.

Personally I eat very little veg. I find it incredibly bland. Even if put in a nice dish to me it's "just veg". Meat substitutes don't appeal to me at all (though I do find it slightly ironic that people who declare we don't actually need to eat meat go and look for a substitute for meat in their diet).

CreepingDeath

jonnyfingers wrote: »

But technically humans began having a mostly vegetarian diet and only started eating more and more meat as they migrated to colder climates where vegetation wasn't as plentiful all year round.

No, humans started eating meat because it was calorie rich.
Which has huge advantages in gaining weight to last through the winter.
Also, they were able to use the rest of the animal eg. skins for clothing, shoes, canoes, blankets etc.

Or do you propose that early human "vegetarians" used cabbage leafs for clothing/shoes etc ?

Hoop66

homemadecider wrote: »

I've known both meat eaters and vegetarians who've had horrendous diets. I don't think you can say one is "healthier" than the other.

Consider the below hypothetical day's eating... all vegetarian but not at all healthy!

Breakfast - Special K with milk, white bread with margarine and jam

Lunch - White roll with coleslaw, lettuce, tomato. Packet of crisps. Can of coke.

Dinner - Potato waffles, baked beans, slice of margarita pizza. Two beers.

Jaysus, I used to be a vegetarian! Who knew? I thought it was just called being on the dole.

weisses

Eat your meat raw ... you know like all the other meat eating species

Lets see how many "meat eaters" are left after 1 month

Fukcing omnivore wannabees

Popinjay

CreepingDeath wrote: »

Or do you propose that early human "vegetarians" used cabbage leafs for clothing/shoes etc ?

I'd heard it was a fig, but a cabbage leaf is bigger, so we'll go with that.

awec

weisses wrote: »

Eat your meat raw ... you know like all the other meat eating species

Lets see how many "meat eaters" are left after 1 month

Fukcing omnivore wannabees

Do you eat all your veg raw?

I imagine not, given that raw veg is hard to digest and can cause abdominal pain if you eat it too much and too often.