why are there no J D Wetherspoon pubs in ROI?

Henry Sidney

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

I think there needs to be some effort to separate fact from fiction in terms of what the good and bad aspects of the Irish trade are firstly. While there is make belief about 'the great pub atmosphere' being prevalent everywhere, an important distinction needs to be made between:

- The likes of Bowes / Nearys / Kehoes / etc;
- The likes of The Mercantile / D2 / Temple Bar establishments;
- The likes of The Black Sheep / Against the Grain;

In the first case, there is something there that the UK can't match and a Weatherspoons can never replicate. These are cosy places with a long tradition that pride themselves on having very professional and able bar staff. You'll get a good pint and an 'atmosphere' in these places. Obviously such things are not to everyone's taste. A Weatherspoon's revolution could squeeze many of these places.

How can the UK not match that? We have thousands of pubs like that. Every town has plenty. My local, for example, has been open since 1812, and has only had 20 landlords in that time, all from the same family. There is live music some weekends, no food, and open fire, a great atmosphere, and it stays open till 2am at the weekend. I know of hundreds of pubs like the ones you describe, in fact I can see three of them from out of my office window right now just outside a major city centre.

Idbatterim

Bloody hell! Some of the stuff there is even cheaper than what it is in my local spoons in the UK!!

I remember when they first opened, the prices were quite a bit higher, a Heineken was E4.75 for example, I read an article yesterday, that they dropped their price so substantially to get more footfall in Blackrock.

The thing was, with their original prices, they were only marginally cheaper than the competition, I certainly wouldnt have gone out of my way to go to one, in fact, I would have paid the extra few cent and went to my normal bar of choice. It would be the equivalent of aldi or lidl coming in and charging virtually what M&S are, I know where I would shop...

Are we any closer to finding out exactly what happened with Heineken in Dun Laoghaire, did they flat out refuse to supply the 40foot with heineken or what?

LuckyLloyd

Henry Sidney wrote: »

How can the UK not match that? We have thousands of pubs like that. Every town has plenty. My local, for example, has been open since 1812, and has only had 20 landlords in that time, all from the same family. There is live music some weekends, no food, and open fire, a great atmosphere, and it stays open till 2am at the weekend. I know of hundreds of pubs like the ones you describe, in fact I can see three of them from out of my office window right now just outside a major city centre.

No doubt something like Kehoes exists somewhere in the UK but I haven't seen it myself. My anecdotal experience contrasts with your own clearly!

Henry Sidney

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

No doubt something like Kehoes exists somewhere in the UK but I haven't seen it myself. My anecdotal experience contrasts with your own clearly!

I've been lucky enough to live and work all over the UK and Ireland, and there are great pubs all over both, you just have to try a few hundred to get to the right ones sometimes!

LuckyLloyd

Henry Sidney wrote: »

I've been lucky enough to live and work all over the UK and Ireland, and there are great pubs all over both, you just have to try a few hundred to get to the right ones sometimes!

Right.

And the main point is that - while a Weatherspoon's revolution will knock lumps out of the bad, loud Diageo places - it will undoubtedly squeeze a lot of great pubs and threaten the idea of publicans as a trade.

I just think there's some nuance in there, though the majority of Irish pubs would be no great loss to no one. The success of the likes of ATG and the interest in craft beers is a testament to the fact that there is a demand for change out there anyway. The Diageo nonsense of the same narrow range of taps / spirits / fridge options EVERYWHERE had its day in the sun for far too long. Good riddance.

anncoates

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

But be careful with throwing the baby out with the bathwater here

It won't. There will always be a big market for the Neary's/Bowes type pubs you mention. I'm delighted that Spoons have opened here but I'll be spending tomorrow night in a traditional Irish pub.

Henry Sidney

anncoates wrote: »

It won't. There will always be a big market for the Neary's/Bowes type pubs you mention. I'm delighted that Spoons have opened here but I'll be spending tomorrow night in a traditional Irish pub.

This is it exactly. Wetherspoons is not a night out type of place. There are two where I live, both decent enough, but they are places you stop for a pint when shopping, or for a few early liveners with your mates. Not somewhere you spend a whole night. They fill a gap in the market, cheap food and booze. Much more fun to have a few early ones there than to do all this pre-drinking at home rubbish that young people seem to do instead of actually socialising.

anncoates

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

No doubt something like Kehoes exists somewhere in the UK but I haven't seen it myself. My anecdotal experience contrasts with your own clearly!

Actually, a lot of the pubs we think of as being classic Dublin pubs (some of my favorite pubs like Long Hall, Stags Head etc) are quite English in style. Not Kehoes, mind you.

It's great to see choice in Dublin: on a given night now you can go to an old skool pub, a so called craft pub or a JDW.

Idbatterim

This is it exactly. Wetherspoons is not a night out type of place. There are two where I live, both decent enough, but they are places you stop for a pint when shopping, or for a few early liveners with your mates. Not somewhere you spend a whole night. They fill a gap in the market, cheap food and booze. Much more fun to have a few early ones there than to do all this pre-drinking at home rubbish that young people seem to do instead of actually socialising.

yeah myself and my mates were saying the other day, that if we had a local spoons, we would start drinking there before heading into town, rather than in the apartment (which is still great banter) But I am not starting to drink at 8 or 9 and paying E5.50 from the getgo... Also I note their coffee and tea etc is €1, that will surely put a dent in local coffee shops trade!

Beefy78

Honestly I think there are more pubs like the ones LuckyLloyd describes in Ireland than the UK relative to the size of the country and a lot of that is down to the quality of bar staff however it is disingenous to suggest that they don't exist in the UK. They do exist and I've been in some cracking pubs like that in London, Edinburgh and plenty of other places too.

They exist in other countries too - the US for example.

Ireland does have a lot of fantastic pubs and that is something to be proud of but Wetherspoons won't be the death of that.

EDIT - I see the conversation moved on whilst I was typing that

Henry Sidney

Idbatterim wrote: »

yeah myself and my mates were saying the other day, that if we had a local spoons, we would start drinking there before heading into town, rather than in the apartment (which is still great banter) But I am not starting to drink at 8 or 9 and paying E5.50 from the getgo... Also I note their coffee and tea etc is €1, that will surely put a dent in local coffee shops trade!

8 or 9? What's the point in starting that late?????

jimgoose

Henry Sidney wrote: »

...Much more fun to have a few early ones there than to do all this pre-drinking at home rubbish that young people seem to do instead of actually socialising.

Exactly, I could not agree more. Tea-time scoopage is much healthier, more sociable and more fun than necking nitromethane in some shíthole apartment and then heading for town already half-cut.

Grayson

Idbatterim wrote: »

yeah myself and my mates were saying the other day, that if we had a local spoons, we would start drinking there before heading into town, rather than in the apartment (which is still great banter) But I am not starting to drink at 8 or 9 and paying E5.50 from the getgo... Also I note their coffee and tea etc is €1, that will surely put a dent in local coffee shops trade!

If you start drinking at 8 at full prices, that's €100 spent in a night easily. maybe even €150.

Geuze

Idbatterim wrote: »

I remember when they first opened, the prices were quite a bit higher, a Heineken was E4.75 for example, I read an article yesterday, that they dropped their price so substantially to get more footfall in Blackrock.

Yes, see earlier in this thread.

In Oct they cut many beer prices by up to 40%.

I don't know why.

Some went from 3.95 to 2.50, e.g. Beamish.

LuckyLloyd

anncoates wrote: »

Actually, a lot of the pubs we think of as being classic Dublin pubs (some of my favorite pubs like Long Hall, Stags Head etc) are quite English in style. Not Kehoes, mind you.

It's great to see choice in Dublin: on a given night now you can go to an old skool pub, a so called craft pub or a JDW.

Amen to that. Choice is always a good thing. Diageo somehow managed to convince a nation otherwise!!

irish_goat

Idbatterim wrote: »

yeah myself and my mates were saying the other day, that if we had a local spoons, we would start drinking there before heading into town, rather than in the apartment (which is still great banter) But I am not starting to drink at 8 or 9 and paying E5.50 from the getgo... Also I note their coffee and tea etc is €1, that will surely put a dent in local coffee shops trade!

Up north it's cheaper for me to drink pints in Spoons than to go into the Tesco next door and buy the same beer in a 500ml bottle.

LuckyLloyd

Oh and, the best thing about this from Weatherspoon's perspective is the free publicity Heineken handed to them. You couldn't have got better advertising for the value of any lost business!!

Idbatterim

8 or 9? What's the point in starting that late?????

when you are out till 3/4/5 am depending on the saturday night that is in it, I dont think starting to drink before 8 or 9 would be very prudent By the way, I have the Christmas Party tonight, it will be in your typical Dublin pub, all the usual "quality" on tap, Heineken, Coors, Bud etc, Coors isnt owned by Diageo or Heineken is it?

anncoates

anncoates wrote: »

Actually, a lot of the pubs we think of as being classic Dublin pubs (some of my favorite pubs like Long Hall, Stags Head etc) are quite English in style.

Just as a postscript to this.

Do a Google image search for English Victorian Pubs and see what I mean.

Henry Sidney

Idbatterim wrote: »

when you are out till 3/4/5 am depending on the saturday night that is in it, I dont think starting to drink before 8 or 9 would be very prudent By the way, I have the Christmas Party tonight, it will be in your typical Dublin pub, all the usual "quality" on tap, Heineken, Coors, Bud etc, Coors isnt owned by Diageo or Heineken is it?

Nope, by Molson Coors.

Idbatterim

Nope, by Molson Coors.

Thought so, will be drinking that all night so, I am done with anything Diageo if I can help it, likewise with Heineken...

I have to ask the question, if price is a big thing putting people off going to the pub, why didnt the VFI / LVA and publicans do something about it a long time ago? Ok, there are factors that are outside of their control, strict drink driving laws, smoking ban...

leakyboots

syklops wrote: »

You'd swear it was a Mongolian barbecue the way some people are going on.

"None of your foreign beer for me! Pint of Heineken please".

A mate of mine tells a good one about being in a bar in Holland that boasted a choice of ONE THOUSAND beers from all around the world. The laminated menu was about a foot thick. Goes back to the lads to get their orders in, lads shouting Kenya, Uruguay, Mongolia etc. at him, except for one of them....
... who insisted on a Heineken!

Kev_2012

Before I went to Canada, I always loved Irish pubs.

When I returned I noticed several things that drive me nuts about them :
- Most don't serve food, or only serve it till about 6/7, or it's just carvery.
- The price of pints has gotten ridiculous! Even in the last 2 years.
- You have to queue up for every drink. Irish pubs could do with servers.
- The bars are waaay too packed. It's not enjoyable.
- There is rarely drinks specials ever on, and even then they aren't really good offers.
- You have to buy a small 200ml bottle of minerals as a mixer in most places for 2.50 in addition to the 4.50/5 for the measure of spirits!!!!!

The only good thing I've noticed is that the quality of pints, regardless of it being Heineken or whatever is unmatched. I love trying new beers and that but for lager I think heineken is really good here. Guinness is unreal too.

I'd like to see a good fusion of these 2 styles of pub! Also, hardly anywhere does wings deals and the food is normally run of the mill roast dinners. Nothing out of the ordinary... ever....

VinLieger

Idbatterim wrote: »

Thought so, will be drinking that all night so, I am done with anything Diageo if I can help it, likewise with Heineken...

I have to ask the question, if price is a big thing putting people off going to the pub, why didnt the VFI / LVA and publicans do something about it a long time ago? Ok, there are factors that are outside of their control, strict drink driving laws, smoking ban...

Because they are effectively operating a cartel between themselves and Diageo, in this case they only care about themselves and not customer's who have to go somewhere and up until now nothing like JDW has been an option

Idbatterim

Because they are effectively operating a cartel between themselves and Diageo, in this case they only care about themselves and not customer's who have to go somewhere and up until now nothing like JDW has been an option

I get what they are up to, but surely increasing sales is in their interest! How can they not care about their customers, they pay their wages! whats their master plan? keep their relationship with Diageo, change nothing, business as usual and eventually close down? ( i am referring more to country pubs now)

VinLieger

Idbatterim wrote: »

I get what they are up to, but surely increasing sales is in their interest! How can they not care about their customers, they pay their wages! whats their master plan? keep their relationship with Diageo, change nothing, business as usual and eventually close down? ( i am referring more to country pubs now)

The people in charge and who have the most pull in the VFI all likely own several premises in the cities so country pubs dont get a look in, also as far as closing down its worked so far hasn't it?

Hotblack Desiato

Deleted User wrote: »

Wetherspoons are starting out by cherry picking decent places in good locations in order to establish a good reputation from the start, I'd say. If you were planning on opening 30 pubs, why would you start in Finglas or Clondalkin?

Tell me, how many pubs in Finglas or Clondalkin have you had a drink in?

JupiterKid

How many Wetherspoons pubs are now up and running in ROI? I know that there's one in Blackrock but have any others opened yet?

dd972

Henry Sidney wrote: »

I have no problem with Irish people, I have Irish friends and family. My only problem is with the propagation of this myth that everyone in Ireland is some amazing, witty, friendly person and that everywhere you go will be like a fun-filled paradise of wit and warmth. I lived there for 15 years, and have done business there for close to 30, and it's simply not true.

Don't worry Henry, I'm Irish and get your posts 100%, I can't stand the sort of Irish people who act like walking, talking cliches of what your describing, boring everyone s**tless with their exaggerated accents and ''what are we loike, must be 'cos we're Oirish'' sensibility.

sinead88

I live in Scotland and I can attest that Wetherspoons are horrible, soulless places. They don't play any music at all generally and the food is terrible. My friend used to work in one and it sounded awful. The only reason I would ever go there is for a very cheap drink before a night out. You'd never want to spend too much time there. I actually like that Ireland doesn't have loads of chain pubs and really appreciate it whenever I visit home, as most places have some sort of character.