Judge tells victims of crime: use full force on raiders (who he calls'knacker's)

Ghandee

I do not argue with his sentiments, don't get me wrong.
Though I do think it's inappropriate for a judge to refer to anyone as 'knackers'.

AN OUTSPOKEN judge has told homeowners to use "maximum force" against burglars, whom he described as "knackers".

District Court Judge Geoffrey Browne made the strident comments after hearing the case of a publican who has been robbed three times in five months.

Michael Masterson (69) suffered a heart attack and was hospitalised after raiders repeatedly targeted his Derreen Inn in Abbeyknockmoy, Co Galway.

Sentencing two burglars to jail, Judge Browne said: "It's time for more force to be used on these fellows. "Maximum force should be used," added the judge at Tuam District Court, before describing those who carry out such attacks as "knackers".

Sympathising with the victim, the judge added: "I would like to say he should protect himself using other resources than a hurley stick." The judge's comments come during a rural crimewave, with raiders targeting the elderly and vulnerable in particular.

Local Fine Gael Councillor Peter Roche said: "Judge Browne didn't mention a gun, but reading between the lines, I think that's what we're talking about here. "

He was commenting after the case of Patrick and John Reilly, of Moyne Park, Abbeyknockmoy, who have burgled the Derreen Inn in Abbeyknockmoy on three occasions between them.

Judge Browne sentenced Patrick Reilly to 22 months in prison and John Reilly to 18 months' detention. "What about the poor landlord who probably can't sleep at night now?

What burglars do to pensioners, and indeed ordinary home and business owners around the country is despicable, no doubt about it, i often think the Gardai should be armed when dealing with some cases, to put them on a level playing field at times.

However, when a judge starts using offensive terms to describe one section of the community, things start to get iffy.

If a judge used the 'N word' to refer to a member of the African community, I think the country would be up in arms.

Why is it ok in this case?


http://www.independent.ie/national-news/judge-tells-victims-of-crime-use-full-force-on-raiders-3364342.html

Hank Scorpio

Knacker to me means scumbag, along with other things, not just travellers

Also that judge is pretty cool

krudler

Knackers is an all purpose word to describe scummers too, so yeah people who break into people's places are knackers.

Joe10000

Knackers are anyone without manners in my book so yeah they're knackers.

mikemac1

Sympathising with the victim, the judge added:

Empty words

No sympathy required, just proper sentencing

18 & 22 months, the boys will likely be out this time next year

galwayrush

Knackers = scumbags, whatever background they are from.

kraggy

mikemac1 wrote: »

Empty words

No sympathy required, just proper sentencing

18 & 22 months, the boys will likely be out this time next year

Exactly.

Why did the judge not give them more? They didn't do it once, but three times.

brandon_flowers

A judge is allowed to say anything he likes while presiding. He may have to apologize but he will face no actions.

And describing them as knackers is correct. These cutns broke everything in the bar, that was hardly a robbery that was pure scumbag behavior.

The judges hands are tied in instances like this, the judiciary fails time and time again because if the judge gave them 5 years they would be out in a year anyway due to prison space etc.

CrinkElite

It's not honest to deny the historical meaning and significance of the word knacker.

Not a word that should be used in a court of law.

galwayrush

mikemac1 wrote: »

Empty words

No sympathy required, just proper sentencing

18 & 22 months, the boys will likely be out this time next year

True, but i doubt i will be safe for then to return home afterwards.:D

crazygeryy

wasn't there a song called I'm a knacker by patrick bergin.that reffered to travellers didn't it

Death and Taxes

brandon_flowers wrote: »

A judge is allowed to say anything he likes while presiding. He may have to apologize but he will face no actions.

And describing them as knackers is correct. These cutns broke everything in the bar, that was hardly a robbery that was pure scumbag behavior.

The judges hands are tied in instances like this, the judiciary fails time and time again because if the judge gave them 5 years they would be out in a year anyway due to prison space etc.

He couldn't give them 5 years anyway, it was a district court case so he was limited by law in the lenght of sentence he could apply.

Uriel.

CrinkElite wrote: »

It's not honest to deny the historical meaning and significance of the word knacker.

Not a word that should be used in a court of law.

Why exactly? Would someone's feelings be hurt?

galwayrush

Uriel. wrote: »

Why exactly? Would someone's feelings be hurt?

Probably meant the guys who got rid of clapped out old horses i.e., off to the knachers yard... before the burger industry took over.

Tefral

These ” people” thrive on the generosity and kind-hearted nature of people. If you do something like rob someone or break into their house etc. then you deserve to be called a knacker at a minimum.

The judge is spot on when he says more force should be used, it might make them think twice about taking that “easy money”.
More of this by judges and the system might finally get a pat on the back.

im invisible

Insert topical tesco joke here

checkyabadself

It's a disgrace. A member of the judiciary should elevate himself above using common slang and behave in a manner befitting of his office.

Judges offering their personal partial opinions on cases is becoming tiresome these days.

ruthloss

im invisible wrote: »

Insert topical tesco joke here

Burgerlar

El Siglo

checkyabadself wrote: »

It's a disgrace. A member of the judiciary should elevate himself above using common slang and behave in a manner befitting of his office.

Or he's actually saying what a lot of people are thinking. Seriously, just because he's a judge doesn't mean that he isn't human and doesn't see the damage scumbags do to communities, especially when targeting vulnerable people like the elderly.

Judges offering their personal partial opinions on cases is becoming tiresome these days.

Well at least he's offering some sort of a viewpoint beyond a party memo we often have to put up with. I'd sooner listen to what a judge says over a politician any day of the week.

At the end of the day it's not longer sentences that'll work, it's reform in the prison system. Even with the quarter remission, it's usually at the discretion of the governor who'll invariably free a person early as the prisons are overcrowded.

Ush1

To those people saying knacker just means scumbag, would you use the term when describing a scumbag to a member of the travelling community?

I doubt it.

Il Trap

I'd hazard a guess that the two perpetrators were indeed of the 'travelling' variety in which case the judge's comments would seem quite pointed and deliberate. Not faulting him for it either.

Kolido

Ush1 wrote: »

To those people saying knacker just means scumbag, would you use the term when describing a scumbag to a member of the travelling community?

I doubt it.

Don't quite understand what you mean here. Would I call a traveller a scumbag?..sure if I thought they were a scumbag

Carlos_Ray

Nothing wrong with this. If people want to have a go at Judges, have a go at them for letting rich rapists buy their way out of prison sentences, releasing unrepentant serial killers, and giving evil child rapists ridiculously short sentences.

It's about time our judges stopped protecting the evil in our society.

SEPT 23 1989

If there were no "knackers" you would be out of a job,Judge "Geoffrey" Browne

Ghandee

Kolido wrote: »

Don't quite understand what you mean here. Would I call a traveller a scumbag?..sure if I thought they were a scumbag

I think that poster means, would any of us refer to a scumbag as a 'knacker' when in conversation with a traveller.

Dyr

Ghandee wrote: »

I do not argue with his sentiments, don't get me wrong.
Though I do think it's inappropriate for a judge to refer to anyone as 'knackers'.
Gardai should be armed when dealing with some cases, to put them on a level playing field at times.

Burglars tend not to target garda stations so that's not really a level playing field.

Ush1

Kolido wrote: »

Don't quite understand what you mean here. Would I call a traveller a scumbag?..sure if I thought they were a scumbag

No, would you use the phrase knacker, when speaking with a traveller?

Lollipops23

My step-grandad was burgled (while he was at home) by 2 members of the community that moves around a bit.

He never got over the fright and went from being very independent and pretty healthy, to needing to move to a nursing home in the space of 6 months- another few months later he passed away. I can never forgive those toerags who stole his pension while he was in the next room.

Ghandee

Ghandee wrote: »

Though I do think it's inappropriate for a judge to refer to anyone as 'knackers'.

However, when a judge starts using offensive terms to describe one section of the community, things start to get iffy.

While I do think the word was unwise to use as a judge in front of public, I doubt he meant it to mean one section of the community (which I assume you're using to mean travellers?). To me knacker has always meant someone who does something vulgar. I'm aware that it used to be used to mean someone who put down horses, and that it then became associated with the travelling community, but it's never meant either of those things to me and I've never heard anyone actually use them to mean either of those things.

So while I would object to him using the word, I:
a) would agree with him.
b) don't think it has anything to do with the travelling community.

Ghandee

Bambi wrote: »

Burglars tend not to target garda stations so that's not really a level playing field.

True enough.

However they do sometimes tend to be armed.

Burglar with sawn off, V Garda with notebook, pen and baton......

suicide_circus

I imagine judge browne to look like this

http://media1.policymic.com/site/articles/9224/photo.jpg

Rasheed

To me, a knacker is a scumbag and therefore the lads that robbed this man are knackers.

But the judge shouldn't have used to word in court as it has left himself open to people questioning his comment.

conorhal

mikemac1 wrote: »

Empty words

No sympathy required, just proper sentencing

18 & 22 months, the boys will likely be out this time next year

Hard to argue with that, as far as I'm concerned the most offensive word a judge can use during a sentencing hearing is 'suspended'.

The Gride

conorhal wrote: »

Hard to argue with that, as far as I'm concerned the most offensive word a judge can use during a sentencing hearing is 'suspended'.

I could be wrong but I think the most a District Court Judge can give is 22 months. I remember reading somewhere that a District Cort Judge gave a higher sentence to someone by mistake and they got the complete conviction and sentence overturned as the Judge had only the power to give out 22 months in total.

LiamMc

The Gride wrote: »

I could be wrong but I think the most a District Court Judge can give is 22 months. I remember reading somewhere that a District Cort Judge gave a higher sentence to someone by mistake and they got the complete conviction and sentence overturned as the Judge had only the power to give out 22 months in total.

I was just going to post that Judge Browne is only a District Court Judge. If people used maximum force than any trial would be heard in the High Court.

It is unfortunate that self-entitlement people like Judge Browne are part of are society and actual believe themselves to be successful in my Community.

Death and Taxes

Il Trap wrote: »

I'd hazard a guess that the two perpetrators were indeed of the 'travelling' variety in which case the judge's comments would seem quite pointed and deliberate. Not faulting him for it either.

believe me if they were travellers the paper would have highlighted it, but sure don't let me stop you getting a cheap dig inat travellers.
Just goes to prove that the judge was wrong to the term he did though as so many smallminded bigots (not you obviously) will now attribute these crimes to the travelling community.
District Court Judges in this country are a joke!

Kinzig

Enough of the pussyfooting around Knackers!!..Theres a crime wave in Donegal at the moment which is mainly caused by this section of the community..these scummers need dealt with..when they break in-shoot on sight I say!!

Show Time

A few more judges like him would do the country the world of good.

Madam_X

Even if true, it's awfully unprofessional, undignified language for a judge to use in public and in their professional capacity.`

Plus, advising people to break the law? Grand for him to say it when it won't land him in jail.

Kangaroo court stuff. A judge is supposed to be a spokesperson for the law, not stirring up people's emotions. His opinions may be understandable but shouldn't come into him doing his job. If you agree with him, it still doesn't make it "right" for him to say all this stuff as a judge.

fasttalkerchat

Another idiot judge. He used a word that could be misinterpreted and land him in trouble and then he advised a victim to use maximum force with no legal basis to do so.

The conviction could have been quashed because a potentially racist term was used and the victim might take the judges advice in future and find himself behind bars.

Boombastic

mikemac1 wrote: »

Empty words

No sympathy required, just proper sentencing

18 & 22 months, the boys will likely be out this time next year

Sooner would be my guess

conorhal wrote: »

Hard to argue with that, as far as I'm concerned the most offensive word a judge can use during a sentencing hearing is 'suspended'.

Followed closely by 'concurrently'



This judge is dead right. People should and will use force.

MagicSean

Apparently these two brothers are responsable for three breakins to the same place between them.

http://www.independent.ie/national-news/judge-tells-victims-of-crime-use-full-force-on-raiders-3364342.html

Sounds like the judge got angry and forgot his political correctness.

Stheno

Madam_X wrote: »

Even if true, it's awfully unprofessional, undignified language for a judge to use in public and in their professional capacity.`

Plus, advising people to break the law? Grand for him to say it when it won't land him in jail.

Kangaroo court stuff. A judge is supposed to be a spokesperson for the law, not stirring up people's emotions. His opinions may be understandable but shouldn't come into him doing his job. If you agree with him, it still doesn't make it "right" for him to say all this stuff as a judge.

Agree with this, sounds like he completely lost the run of himself.

elefant

Madam_X wrote: »

Even if true, it's awfully unprofessional, undignified language for a judge to use in public and in their professional capacity.`

Plus, advising people to break the law? Grand for him to say it when it won't land him in jail.

Kangaroo court stuff. A judge is supposed to be a spokesperson for the law, not stirring up people's emotions. His opinions may be understandable but shouldn't come into him doing his job. If you agree with him, it still doesn't make it "right" for him to say all this stuff as a judge.

By law aren't people allowed to use a reasonable level of force in protecting their, or someone else's, property though? For a 70 year old, I don't think having a hurl to beat off thieves is the limits of reasonable, and if maximum force is what it takes elderly people to defend themselves, he's right in saying that people should use maximum force.

Someone correct me if I'm wrong here, it's been a while since I studied Criminal Law.

Boombastic

Why are there no pictures of these guys alongside the article?

Chemical Burn

nuxxx wrote: »

Knacker to me means scumbag, along with other things, not just travellers

Also that judge is pretty cool

+1

omahaid

I've no issue with the judge calling them knackers because they are (nothing whatsoever to do with travellers). However advising people to use "maximum force" isn't helpful because you'll be locked up if you do.

seamey beag84

The judges emotions definitely came out here but it was of no help. "Knackers" was just a slip of the tongue i'd say but "Maximum Force". As far as I know, using maximum force would land the person being robbed in jail..

MaxSteele

A judges personal opinion should be the last thing to be worrying about when dealing with two little toerags like this. This formal do and don't say policy is fairly outdated and means feck all really to the wider public. A judge is entitled to his opinion like anyone else.

Why should he pretend to hold a more politically correct view than the average joe.

Death and Taxes

MaxSteele wrote: »

A judges personal opinion should be the last thing to be worrying about when dealing with two little toerags like this. This formal do and don't say policy is fairly outdated and means feck all really to the wider public. A judge is entitled to his opinion like anyone else.

Why should he pretend to hold a more politically correct view than the average joe.

Because he is not an average joe!

gobnaitolunacy

Boombastic wrote: »

Why are there no pictures of these guys alongside the article?

They weren't photogenic?