Judge tells victims of crime: use full force on raiders (who he calls'knacker's)

Ghandee · 25-01-2013 08:23AM #1

I do not argue with his sentiments, don't get me wrong.
Though I do think it's inappropriate for a judge to refer to anyone as 'knackers'.

AN OUTSPOKEN judge has told homeowners to use "maximum force" against burglars, whom he described as "knackers".

District Court Judge Geoffrey Browne made the strident comments after hearing the case of a publican who has been robbed three times in five months.

Michael Masterson (69) suffered a heart attack and was hospitalised after raiders repeatedly targeted his Derreen Inn in Abbeyknockmoy, Co Galway.

Sentencing two burglars to jail, Judge Browne said: "It's time for more force to be used on these fellows. "Maximum force should be used," added the judge at Tuam District Court, before describing those who carry out such attacks as "knackers".

Sympathising with the victim, the judge added: "I would like to say he should protect himself using other resources than a hurley stick." The judge's comments come during a rural crimewave, with raiders targeting the elderly and vulnerable in particular.

Local Fine Gael Councillor Peter Roche said: "Judge Browne didn't mention a gun, but reading between the lines, I think that's what we're talking about here. "

He was commenting after the case of Patrick and John Reilly, of Moyne Park, Abbeyknockmoy, who have burgled the Derreen Inn in Abbeyknockmoy on three occasions between them.

Judge Browne sentenced Patrick Reilly to 22 months in prison and John Reilly to 18 months' detention. "What about the poor landlord who probably can't sleep at night now?

What burglars do to pensioners, and indeed ordinary home and business owners around the country is despicable, no doubt about it, i often think the Gardai should be armed when dealing with some cases, to put them on a level playing field at times.

However, when a judge starts using offensive terms to describe one section of the community, things start to get iffy.

If a judge used the 'N word' to refer to a member of the African community, I think the country would be up in arms.

Why is it ok in this case?

http://www.independent.ie/national-news/judge-tells-victims-of-crime-use-full-force-on-raiders-3364342.html

Hank Scorpio · 25-01-2013 08:26AM

Knacker to me means scumbag, along with other things, not just travellers

Also that judge is pretty cool

krudler · 25-01-2013 08:26AM

Knackers is an all purpose word to describe scummers too, so yeah people who break into people's places are knackers.

Joe10000 · 25-01-2013 08:30AM

Knackers are anyone without manners in my book so yeah they're knackers.

mikemac1 · 25-01-2013 08:31AM

Sympathising with the victim, the judge added:

Empty words

No sympathy required, just proper sentencing

18 & 22 months, the boys will likely be out this time next year

galwayrush · 25-01-2013 08:42AM

Knackers = scumbags, whatever background they are from.

kraggy · 25-01-2013 08:48AM

mikemac1 wrote: »

Empty words

No sympathy required, just proper sentencing

18 & 22 months, the boys will likely be out this time next year

Exactly.

Why did the judge not give them more? They didn't do it once, but three times.

brandon_flowers · 25-01-2013 08:52AM

A judge is allowed to say anything he likes while presiding. He may have to apologize but he will face no actions.

And describing them as knackers is correct. These cutns broke everything in the bar, that was hardly a robbery that was pure scumbag behavior.

The judges hands are tied in instances like this, the judiciary fails time and time again because if the judge gave them 5 years they would be out in a year anyway due to prison space etc.

CrinkElite · 25-01-2013 08:52AM

It's not honest to deny the historical meaning and significance of the word knacker.

Not a word that should be used in a court of law.

galwayrush · 25-01-2013 08:52AM

mikemac1 wrote: »

Empty words

No sympathy required, just proper sentencing

18 & 22 months, the boys will likely be out this time next year

True, but i doubt i will be safe for then to return home afterwards.:D

crazygeryy · 25-01-2013 08:54AM

wasn't there a song called I'm a knacker by patrick bergin.that reffered to travellers didn't it

Death and Taxes · 25-01-2013 08:55AM

brandon_flowers wrote: »

A judge is allowed to say anything he likes while presiding. He may have to apologize but he will face no actions.

And describing them as knackers is correct. These cutns broke everything in the bar, that was hardly a robbery that was pure scumbag behavior.

The judges hands are tied in instances like this, the judiciary fails time and time again because if the judge gave them 5 years they would be out in a year anyway due to prison space etc.

He couldn't give them 5 years anyway, it was a district court case so he was limited by law in the lenght of sentence he could apply.

Uriel. · 25-01-2013 08:59AM

CrinkElite wrote: »

It's not honest to deny the historical meaning and significance of the word knacker.

Not a word that should be used in a court of law.

Why exactly? Would someone's feelings be hurt?

galwayrush · 25-01-2013 09:02AM

Uriel. wrote: »

Why exactly? Would someone's feelings be hurt?

Probably meant the guys who got rid of clapped out old horses i.e., off to the knachers yard... before the burger industry took over.

Tefral · 25-01-2013 09:03AM

These ” people” thrive on the generosity and kind-hearted nature of people. If you do something like rob someone or break into their house etc. then you deserve to be called a knacker at a minimum.

The judge is spot on when he says more force should be used, it might make them think twice about taking that “easy money”.
More of this by judges and the system might finally get a pat on the back.

im invisible · 25-01-2013 09:07AM

Insert topical tesco joke here

checkyabadself · 25-01-2013 09:15AM

It's a disgrace. A member of the judiciary should elevate himself above using common slang and behave in a manner befitting of his office.

Judges offering their personal partial opinions on cases is becoming tiresome these days.

ruthloss · 25-01-2013 10:08AM

im invisible wrote: »

Insert topical tesco joke here

Burgerlar

El Siglo · 25-01-2013 10:45AM

checkyabadself wrote: »

It's a disgrace. A member of the judiciary should elevate himself above using common slang and behave in a manner befitting of his office.

Or he's actually saying what a lot of people are thinking. Seriously, just because he's a judge doesn't mean that he isn't human and doesn't see the damage scumbags do to communities, especially when targeting vulnerable people like the elderly.

Judges offering their personal partial opinions on cases is becoming tiresome these days.

Well at least he's offering some sort of a viewpoint beyond a party memo we often have to put up with. I'd sooner listen to what a judge says over a politician any day of the week.

At the end of the day it's not longer sentences that'll work, it's reform in the prison system. Even with the quarter remission, it's usually at the discretion of the governor who'll invariably free a person early as the prisons are overcrowded.

Ush1 · 25-01-2013 10:47AM

To those people saying knacker just means scumbag, would you use the term when describing a scumbag to a member of the travelling community?

I doubt it.

Il Trap · 25-01-2013 10:52AM

I'd hazard a guess that the two perpetrators were indeed of the 'travelling' variety in which case the judge's comments would seem quite pointed and deliberate. Not faulting him for it either.

Kolido · 25-01-2013 10:59AM

Ush1 wrote: »

To those people saying knacker just means scumbag, would you use the term when describing a scumbag to a member of the travelling community?

I doubt it.

Don't quite understand what you mean here. Would I call a traveller a scumbag?..sure if I thought they were a scumbag

Carlos_Ray · 25-01-2013 11:00AM

Nothing wrong with this. If people want to have a go at Judges, have a go at them for letting rich rapists buy their way out of prison sentences, releasing unrepentant serial killers, and giving evil child rapists ridiculously short sentences.

It's about time our judges stopped protecting the evil in our society.

SEPT 23 1989 · 25-01-2013 11:01AM

If there were no "knackers" you would be out of a job,Judge "Geoffrey" Browne

Ghandee · 25-01-2013 11:09AM

Kolido wrote: »

Don't quite understand what you mean here. Would I call a traveller a scumbag?..sure if I thought they were a scumbag

I think that poster means, would any of us refer to a scumbag as a 'knacker' when in conversation with a traveller.

Dyr · 25-01-2013 11:12AM

Ghandee wrote: »

I do not argue with his sentiments, don't get me wrong.
Though I do think it's inappropriate for a judge to refer to anyone as 'knackers'.
Gardai should be armed when dealing with some cases, to put them on a level playing field at times.

Burglars tend not to target garda stations so that's not really a level playing field.

Ush1 · 25-01-2013 11:14AM

Kolido wrote: »

Don't quite understand what you mean here. Would I call a traveller a scumbag?..sure if I thought they were a scumbag

No, would you use the phrase knacker, when speaking with a traveller?

Lollipops23 · 25-01-2013 11:16AM

My step-grandad was burgled (while he was at home) by 2 members of the community that moves around a bit.

He never got over the fright and went from being very independent and pretty healthy, to needing to move to a nursing home in the space of 6 months- another few months later he passed away. I can never forgive those toerags who stole his pension while he was in the next room.

25-01-2013 11:16AM

Ghandee wrote: »

Though I do think it's inappropriate for a judge to refer to anyone as 'knackers'.

However, when a judge starts using offensive terms to describe one section of the community, things start to get iffy.

While I do think the word was unwise to use as a judge in front of public, I doubt he meant it to mean one section of the community (which I assume you're using to mean travellers?). To me knacker has always meant someone who does something vulgar. I'm aware that it used to be used to mean someone who put down horses, and that it then became associated with the travelling community, but it's never meant either of those things to me and I've never heard anyone actually use them to mean either of those things.

So while I would object to him using the word, I:
a) would agree with him.
b) don't think it has anything to do with the travelling community.

Ghandee · 25-01-2013 11:22AM

Bambi wrote: »

Burglars tend not to target garda stations so that's not really a level playing field.

True enough.

However they do sometimes tend to be armed.

Burglar with sawn off, V Garda with notebook, pen and baton......

suicide_circus · 25-01-2013 11:30AM

I imagine judge browne to look like this

http://media1.policymic.com/site/articles/9224/photo.jpg

Judge tells victims of crime: use full force on raiders (who he calls'knacker's)

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