My LS430 - Converted to LPG - Review

S28382

dh0011 wrote: »

where in waterford and what kind of car did he have converted?

Its a Ford people carrier cant remember the exact make, 2.2ltr petrol, ill find out where he got it done and ill post it up.

dh0011

thanks s28382

who_ru

sorel wrote: »

50/50
how much weekly do you spend on petrol?.

about 40 euro a week.

sorel

who_ru wrote: »

about 40 euro a week.

from my experience I know that before I converted car, I tried to drive gently and did less miles. Now I ride harder and do much more miles because it cost me around 45% less. if you will not ride more and harder, you will save some 18 euros per week. annually about 1k euro. Now I can go to my friends to Kerry every week and don't count money.

grotmaster

sorel wrote: »

from my experience I know that before I converted car, I tried to drive gently and did less miles. Now I ride harder and do much more miles because it cost me around 45% less. if you will not ride more and harder, you will save some 18 euros per week. annually about 1k euro. Now I can go to my friends to Kerry every week and don't count money.

How many km yearly would you average?

sorel

grotmaster wrote: »

How many km yearly would you average?

stopped counting. I'm in Germany every month and do many miles in Ireland

Tragedy

Matt Simis wrote: »

You are all over the place here, on one hand you defend your very cheap install, but at the same time you join in Tragedy's line of thought in that a cheaper than "X" country's average install cost must be "iffy" and of lesser quality?? You cant have both stances.

Eh, I never said that. Please stop making stuff up about other people to prove imaginary points, cheers!

aidanki

dh0011 wrote: »

The three options I have so far are lpg.ie for 1099+75 for flashlube
Zenit PRO OBD
Conversion kit specification:
ECU - AGC Zenit PRO OBD.
Evaporators - Silver or Gold.
Injectors - Hana H2001.
Tunning - Adapts to your style of driving and quality of LPG in the tank. This means improved fuel economy, no warning lights and no periodical recalibration required.
LPG tank - donut shape tank in the spare wheel well.
Warranty - 2 years unlimited mileage warranty.

BRC Sequent 24 lpg equipment with flashlube system - price 1200eu (2 years warranty without mileage limit) from lpgireland.ie
and

third option is cargassystems.ie
Price is 1100,00 euro incl flashlube. Two years warranty, one Year Service Free , full Gas tank Free and courtesy car for time when we convert Yours.

which is the best kit to go for ? just got a quote for 1099 for the zenith which the installer told me is the best......and says I don't need flashlube 1.4vvti corolla 2005

dh0011

aidanki - who was the quote with?
the corolla has a vvti engine which the internet tells me is not happy when you put lpg in it. I was going to get my avensis converted but have decided not to as i am afraid that the car might end up needing a new head.
have a look on the web. If you cant find anything let me know and i will send on what i found.

aidanki

dh0011 wrote: »

aidanki - who was the quote with?
the corolla has a vvti engine which the internet tells me is not happy when you put lpg in it. I was going to get my avensis converted but have decided not to as i am afraid that the car might end up needing a new head.
have a look on the web. If you cant find anything let me know and i will send on what i found.

the people that do the conversions in clonmel, can't remember what the company is called offhand

please share what you have found that led you to that conclusion, this thread started about a big lexus, is that engine toyota related

a few toyotas done here http://www.alternativefuelcompany.co.uk/Cars.html

sorel

aidanki wrote: »

which is the best kit to go for ? just got a quote for 1099 for the zenith which the installer told me is the best......and says I don't need flashlube 1.4vvti corolla 2005

Have you seen new promotion of www.lpgain.ie ?.
They do really perfect job with perfect components.
They have PRINS autogas system and STAG autogas system
with KEIHIN and HANA injectors

aidanki

sorel wrote: »

Have you seen new promotion of www.lpgain.ie ?.
They do really perfect job with perfect components.
They have PRINS autogas system and STAG autogas system
with KEIHIN and HANA injectors

you wouldn't recommend a zenith?

sorel

aidanki wrote: »

you wouldn't recommend a zenith?[/QUOTE
I don't know ZENIT-sounds like Russian system

mullingar

dh0011 wrote: »

aidanki - who was the quote with?
the corolla has a vvti engine which the internet tells me is not happy when you put lpg in it. I was going to get my avensis converted but have decided not to as i am afraid that the car might end up needing a new head.
have a look on the web. If you cant find anything let me know and i will send on what i found.

Vvti is only a valve timing system, its nothing to do with the metal used in the valves/valve seats that might not be LPG friendly.

Stinicker

I've 10,000kms done since I converted to LPG six months ago, best move I ever made and I have saved considerably since and my conversion is has saved over €660 in costs compared to Petrol as I am paying on average 99.9c/litre as I don't live near any of the cheaper outlets currently selling LPG. I did a 900kms roadtrip from Kerry to Fermanagh over the weekend and it cost €72 on LPG wheras it would have cost over €120 on Petrol. I never ran out of gas once as I refilled my tank along the way to ensure of this. I have over 1,000 litres of LPG burnt since converting and my consumption for the year will probably be around 2,000 ~ 2,300 litres.

sorel

mullingar wrote: »

Vvti is only a valve timing system, its nothing to do with the metal used in the valves/valve seats that might not be LPG friendly.

i'm not a specialist, but I spoke to many of them in Germany.They told me that the old LPG systems that were not accurate, dosed bad proportions of gas and air, causing burn valves. If you have a good LPG system and above all, was installed by professional people and appropriate calibrated, the valves will work with no problem for same mileages as on petrol without FLASH LUBE.

mullingar

sorel wrote: »

i'm not a specialist, but I spoke to many of them in Germany.They told me that the old LPG systems that were not accurate, dosed bad proportions of gas and air, causing burn valves. If you have a good LPG system and above all, was installed by professional people and appropriate calibrated, the valves will work with no problem for same mileages as on petrol without FLASH LUBE.

All modern LPG systems need to be connected up to the oxygen/lamda sensors to ensure the correct amount of LPG is injected. The Stag system im installing does a fully automatic calibration with petrol and lpg fuel mapping that the Stag unit learns itself as its also wired up to the MAF, petrol injectors and it even measures the manifold negative pressure.

The problem is that LPG is a dry fuel and does not have the cooling properties that petrol has when vapourised to lower the temperature. Petrol also has a few additives added to also help prevent valve burn. IMO, for these reasons Flashlube (or similar) is a must.

Matt Simis

Tragedy wrote: »

Eh, I never said that. Please stop making stuff up about other people to prove imaginary points, cheers!

Uh huh.. sure you didnt.

Tragedy wrote: »

I was involved in a discussion on LPG on octane.ie before it closed. When I suggested that installations in the UK on high performance 6/8 cylinder cars (<300hp) cost above £2000, I had a poster personally attack me for being anti-LPG, of spreading misinformation and trying to discredit LPG. Even though I could link to hundreds of forum threads with people posting quotes for installations costing this - apparently I was making up the figure to make LPG seem unattractive?

You get what you pay for and the cheapest isn't always the best. lpgforum.co.uk is a goldmine of information, and will generally have threads on any specific engine that people are looking at converting.

Have you actually paid for an LPG install yet or do you just like to talk about it?

sorel

mullingar wrote: »

All modern LPG systems need to be connected up to the oxygen/lamda sensors to ensure the correct amount of LPG is injected. The Stag system im installing does a fully automatic calibration with petrol and lpg fuel mapping that the Stag unit learns itself as its also wired up to the MAF, petrol injectors and it even measures the manifold negative pressure.

The problem is that LPG is a dry fuel and does not have the cooling properties that petrol has when vapourised to lower the temperature. Petrol also has a few additives added to also help prevent valve burn. IMO, for these reasons Flashlube (or similar) is a must.

correct me if I'm wrong. usually burn out exhaust valves. Not really sure how the exhaust gas can cool.

dh0011

Hows it going lads - just in the door. I think that I might not have been as clear as I should have in my earlier post. I dont know for definite that having lpg installed will do damage to a toyota. It is just something I read a lot on the internet while I was thinking of getting my own avensis converted. I havent eaten since lunch so I am going to grab a bite to eat and then have a look through my bookmarks and put up the links I found about converting the toyota vvti engine to lpg.

dh0011

This was one of the first links I found and this led me to do some more looking - it is a forum like this so I wasnt convinced one way or another but was keen to learn more.
http://www.toyotaownersclub.com/forums/topic/110278-can-vvti-be-convertible-to-lpg/

When I saw the next post I thought that most of the horror stories were to do with cowboy installers or just the fact that parts fail on all cars eventually and people were blaming the lpg. Also another poster mentions that the valves should be monitored at set intervals.
http://www.toyotaownersclub.com/forums/topic/86030-avensis-18vvti-lpg-conversion-anyone-had-any-experience/

These are just two pages like this I saw and I was not convinced either way. I then contacted a few installers who all said it would be grand. I was leaning towards getting it and then I found this
http://www.autogas-umruesten.com/news/images/database_probleemvoertuigen1207.pdf

It lists problems with cars and mentions that the corolla vvti engines have "valve/seat problems <100.00 km" and "Problems even with flash lube". As this is the same engine that is in the avensis I decided not to go for lpg.

I am in no way claiming to be an expert and perhaps lpg is harmless to these engines but given that Prins are seen as a very good lpg kit manufacturer and they put their name on the last link and have mentioned that there could be problems, I decided it wasnt for me.

If anyone has converted a toyota and had no trouble with it I would be delighted if they would prove me wrong as I like the idea of an LPG car but dont want to have to start adjusting valves etc.

Again, I am an applied mathematician not an engineer so I honestly could be wrong and dont wish to offend anyone [some people seem to be taking some things said in this thread personally]

sorel

dh0011 wrote: »

This was one of the first links I found and this led me to do some more looking - it is a forum like this so I wasnt convinced one way or another but was keen to learn more.
http://www.toyotaownersclub.com/forums/topic/110278-can-vvti-be-convertible-to-lpg/

When I saw the next post I thought that most of the horror stories were to do with cowboy installers or just the fact that parts fail on all cars eventually and people were blaming the lpg. Also another poster mentions that the valves should be monitored at set intervals.
http://www.toyotaownersclub.com/forums/topic/86030-avensis-18vvti-lpg-conversion-anyone-had-any-experience/

These are just two pages like this I saw and I was not convinced either way. I then contacted a few installers who all said it would be grand. I was leaning towards getting it and then I found this
http://www.autogas-umruesten.com/news/images/database_probleemvoertuigen1207.pdf

It lists problems with cars and mentions that the corolla vvti engines have "valve/seat problems <100.00 km" and "Problems even with flash lube". As this is the same engine that is in the avensis I decided not to go for lpg.

I am in no way claiming to be an expert and perhaps lpg is harmless to these engines but given that Prins are seen as a very good lpg kit manufacturer and they put their name on the last link and have mentioned that there could be problems, I decided it wasnt for me.

If anyone has converted a toyota and had no trouble with it I would be delighted if they would prove me wrong as I like the idea of an LPG car but dont want to have to start adjusting valves etc.

Again, I am an applied mathematician not an engineer so I honestly could be wrong and dont wish to offend anyone [some people seem to be taking some things said in this thread personally]

Did you check how many toyota owners have no problem about it?.

dh0011

Couldnt find anyone in person but had a chat to a couple of mechanics. They said they werent sure. Told be that they would charge a lot to take the head off an engine and get it reconditioned or replaced if it did go wrong.

If there are any toyota owners who have had it done I would really like to hear from them.

who_ru

Stinicker wrote: »

I've 10,000kms done since I converted to LPG six months ago, best move I ever made and I have saved considerably since and my conversion is has saved over €660 in costs compared to Petrol as I am paying on average 99.9c/litre as I don't live near any of the cheaper outlets currently selling LPG. I did a 900kms roadtrip from Kerry to Fermanagh over the weekend and it cost €72 on LPG wheras it would have cost over €120 on Petrol. I never ran out of gas once as I refilled my tank along the way to ensure of this. I have over 1,000 litres of LPG burnt since converting and my consumption for the year will probably be around 2,000 ~ 2,300 litres.

Stinicker,

what type of car did you convert and engine size? did you get a large LPG tank or the doughnut shape?

Stinicker

who_ru wrote: »

Stinicker,

what type of car did you convert and engine size? did you get a large LPG tank or the doughnut shape?

I converted my BMW 316i SE Auto e36 1.6L. I have the donut tank and it holds 50 litres, I got it converted by VV-Tech LPG.ie in Kilcullen in Co. Kildare and it cost €1,000.

dh0011

thanks Stinicker anyone else have details on what car they have converted?

daRobot

dh0011 wrote: »

Couldnt find anyone in person but had a chat to a couple of mechanics. They said they werent sure. Told be that they would charge a lot to take the head off an engine and get it reconditioned or replaced if it did go wrong.

If there are any toyota owners who have had it done I would really like to hear from them.

You're posting on a Toyota (Lexus) thread, and my engine is also Vvti

I'd strongly advise going to lpgain where I got it done, as they've done a few lexuses at this stage, and if I recall properly the last time I filled up there an avensis being worked on.

dh0011

daRobot, when did you get it done?

daRobot

dh0011 wrote: »

daRobot, when did you get it done?

December, it's in my original post at the start

Car has been perfect since, extremely pleased with the whole experience.

dh0011

delighted to hear that

I genuinely hope I am wrong about this.