My LS430 - Converted to LPG - Review

aidanki

daRobot wrote: »

You're posting on a Toyota (Lexus) thread, and my engine is also Vvti

I'd strongly advise going to lpgain where I got it done, as they've done a few lexuses at this stage, and if I recall properly the last time I filled up there an avensis being worked on.

dh0011 wrote: »

daRobot, when did you get it done?

daRobot wrote: »

December, it's in my original post at the start

Car has been perfect since, extremely pleased with the whole experience.

daRobot you went with the STAG system in the end, mind sharing with us what other systems you considered and why you didn't go with them

any good links that explain the pros and cons of each manufacturers system

all info v much appreciated

daRobot

aidanki wrote: »

daRobot you went with the STAG system in the end, mind sharing with us what other systems you considered and why you didn't go with them

any good links that explain the pros and cons of each manufacturers system

all info v much appreciated

Here the options were:

Zenit, Lovato, Romano & STAG.

I researched it extensively, (mostly using google chrome to translate Polish & Italian forums as that's where the detailed info was).

Firstly, I couldn't find much info on Zenit really, good or bad. All I can tell you is that it's priced a good bit cheaper than STAG in multiple UK installers. I'm sure it's a decent system, but really there wasn't much on it to assess.

Lovato & Romano: I saw quite a few bad reports on those and wouldn't be taking the risk.

The best systems in this order seem to be: Prins, STAG & BRC.

The first two have developed systems for Direct injection engines, which to me shows that they are at the top of their game, as no other company have products for this.

Prins comes at a significant price premium however, and from looking at the Polish forums, a lot of installers seemed to prefer the STAG ecu, as seemingly it's got more adjustable parameters when it comes to mapping the car.

BRC have a really good reputation too, and didn't see anything negative about them at all.

Also, in my case with the Lexus, a huge amount of the members on the lexus owners club forum had their cars converted in Profess in Wales, who use STAG, and have had zero issues.

http://www.professautogas.co.uk/

I saw that you were quoted 1100 for a 4 cyl with Zenit. Way too expensive IMO. Looking at the LPGAIN site, it's approx 725 odd for that, and they've a 10% off promotion at the moment, so that would be an absolute no brainer as far as i'm concerned.

Hope this helps with your decision.

aidanki

you were happy not to bother with flashlube?

obviously your research showed you didn't need it

any links to those polish and italian forums please, I use chrome by default so I wouldn't mind spending a bit of time reading

mullingar

When I was shopping around at the time before I bought my kit, the STAG offered the best high-spec reliable option based on a lot of googling, but that was only one of the decisions. You also have to pick the injectors/reducers/multivalves etc......

I wanted a full out-of-the-box single solution so the kit I finally went for had:
STAG 300-6 ISA2 ECU
2x Triple Valtek Type 34 injector rails (not the type 30)
KME Gold reducer
Tomasetto Multivalve/Air tight housing
80L cylinder tank
Mini tomasetto LPG filling kit
Filter housings (inc some spare filters)
All the required tubing (LPG FARO tubing/Low pressure tubing /coolant etc etc)
And all the mounting clips
All required hose-clips and Y pieces
All LPG Nozzles (into inlet manifold)
Electronic Flashlube system (with an extra 5L container of the stuff)

including delivery from Poland to Ireland.....€830

The only bit I had to buy extra was a odd sized 1-1/4" to 1/2" equal T to siphon off the hottest coolant where it comes directly out of the cylinder head (to the main rad) rather than the "warm" water that comes out at the back of the cylinder block to the heating system (There are x2 water outs on the 2JZ engine) @ €20 delivered

This is definitely a "higher" spec option and I could have got cheaper stuff, but decided against

daRobot

aidanki wrote: »

you were happy not to bother with flashlube?

obviously your research showed you didn't need it

any links to those polish and italian forums please, I use chrome by default so I wouldn't mind spending a bit of time reading

With the LS430, and the LS400, they don't need flashlube. A good few owners had clocked up 100k + miles on gas without it.

Some people claim that flashlube is a bit of a con, and that modern cars don't need it when the install is done properly. Others say it's an absolute necessity on certain Jap engines. I was confident through others experience, that i'd be ok without it. Quite literally, your mileage may vary.

You'll get contrasting opinions like that here:

http://www.lpgforum.co.uk/viewtopic.php?f=33&t=9791

Put in the hours, research it and you'll be better placed to make a decision. Personally, I would say, if in doubt, get it. It's not too pricey, and if it gives you peace of mind, all the better.

I don't have any links for you to the Polish/Italian forums, as it's a good few months since I researched it and they're long cleared from my history. Grab a strong coffee, start banging in the keywords on the relevant domestic google sites (.pl etc), and read between the (poorly translated) lines.

aidanki

mullingar wrote: »

When I was shopping around at the time before I bought my kit, the STAG offered the best high-spec reliable option based on a lot of googling, but that was only one of the decisions. You also have to pick the injectors/reducers/multivalves etc......

I wanted a full out-of-the-box single solution so the kit I finally went for had:
STAG 300-6 ISA2 ECU
2x Triple Valtek Type 34 injector rails (not the type 30)
KME Gold reducer
Tomasetto Multivalve/Air tight housing
80L cylinder tank
Mini tomasetto LPG filling kit
Filter housings (inc some spare filters)
All the required tubing (LPG FARO tubing/Low pressure tubing /coolant etc etc)
And all the mounting clips
All required hose-clips and Y pieces
All LPG Nozzles (into inlet manifold)
Electronic Flashlube system (with an extra 5L container of the stuff)

including delivery from Poland to Ireland.....€830

The only bit I had to buy extra was a odd sized 1-1/4" to 1/2" equal T to siphon off the hottest coolant where it comes directly out of the cylinder head (to the main rad) rather than the "warm" water that comes out at the back of the cylinder block to the heating system (There are x2 water outs on the 2JZ engine) @ €20 delivered

This is definitely a "higher" spec option and I could have got cheaper stuff, but decided against

the physical installation isn't overly difficult, how did you manage with tying in the ECU to the overall system, do you get the software on a CD and install on your laptop

Ye know this LPG is starting to wreck my head ! :-)

mullingar

aidanki wrote: »

the physical installation isn't overly difficult, how did you manage with tying in the ECU to the overall system, do you get the software on a CD and install on your laptop

Do not under estimate the time it takes to do the physical installation, its took me days to mount/wire/fabricate stuff in.

Re ECU, as I have a copy of the full service manual for the car, which includes the full wiring diagram, I wired EVERYTHING that required connecting to the original car loom directly into the original harness inside the ECU box. From memory I needed to connect up the 6x petrol injectors, 2xOxy sensors, MAF sensor, TPS sensor, 12V perm, 12V ignition, GND. All other wires went to the new LPG components directly from the LPG ECU (LPG injectors/Solenoids/tank level sensors etc).

The newest software is freely available on the net and its just a matter of following the instructions for a full automatic calibration via a laptop and the USB cable that connects directly to the loom of the STAG ECU. I have not finished the calibration yet as it needs to calculate the existing petrol mapping by driving 10-15 mixed miles as I have no insurance on it! I have done the first 2 stages of calibration, tick-over and zero load revving. I was hoping to get her back on the road next week (1st May) after being off the road for 2 years, but it will now be 1st June

sorel

aidanki wrote: »

you were happy not to bother with flashlube?

obviously your research showed you didn't need it

any links to those polish and italian forums please, I use chrome by default so I wouldn't mind spending a bit of time reading

one photo of Toyota Prius here shows the cap of JLM lube.

Suasdaguna1

Feck, that would put me off.

daRobot

Suasdaguna1 wrote: »

Feck, that would put me off.

What would put you off?

daRobot

mullingar wrote: »

I wanted a full out-of-the-box single solution so the kit I finally went for had:
STAG 300-6 ISA2 ECU
2x Triple Valtek Type 34 injector rails (not the type 30)
KME Gold reducer
Tomasetto Multivalve/Air tight housing
80L cylinder tank
Mini tomasetto LPG filling kit
Filter housings (inc some spare filters)
All the required tubing (LPG FARO tubing/Low pressure tubing /coolant etc etc)
And all the mounting clips
All required hose-clips and Y pieces
All LPG Nozzles (into inlet manifold)
Electronic Flashlube system (with an extra 5L container of the stuff)

Fair play for doing the install yourself, must have been satisfying. Just curious, how did you get on with your insurance company, with it being a self-install?

aidanki

I guess this is the link you found advising on the quality of systems

http://www.crdperformance.com/lpg/lpg-petrol-vehicles/


actually rang the installers in dublin about the flashlube and comment was "we can fit it if you want, it helps some people sleep easier at night"

daRobot

aidanki wrote: »

I guess this is the link you found advising on the quality of systems

http://www.crdperformance.com/lpg/lpg-petrol-vehicles/


actually rang the installers in dublin about the flashlube and comment was "we can fit it if you want, it helps some people sleep easier at night"

Actually, i've not seen that before, but good info there.

Did a bit of digging for you, here's the link to the polish lpg forum I was on about:

http://lpg-forum.pl/

Are you going to go with the flashlube so?

74merc

According to the folks that converted my car, most people who have flashlube installed do bother to refill it, with no apparent adverse effects.

aidanki

74merc wrote: »

According to the folks that converted my car, most people who have flashlube installed do bother to refill it, with no apparent adverse effects.

well its only after 100k or something like that I bet that the effects would be seen, thus if they went to the bother of fitting I can't see why you wouldn't bother filling it

aidanki

say does anyone know when the LPG is fitted is the sparkplug timing for the petrol different to that when running on LPG,

my head says the LPG should be advanced more as it takes longer to burn

sorel

aidanki wrote: »

say does anyone know when the LPG is fitted is the sparkplug timing for the petrol different to that when running on LPG,

my head says the LPG should be advanced more as it takes longer to burn

you can find on the market "special" spark plugs for LPG" but they are worse than normal one. lpg doesn't need any special oil,spark plugs, etc.
I had same questions before.

Matt Simis

sorel wrote: »

you can find on the market "special" spark plugs for LPG" but they are worse than normal one. lpg doesn't need any special oil,spark plugs, etc.
I had same questions before.

What?
What is "worse" and what is a "normal" spark plug? LPG should be run on Iridium plugs, while readily available they are not an average, normal plug.

The NGK "LPG" plugs are most definitely better for LPG, they feature both platinum and iridium components to resist corrosion and pitting unique to LPG while at the same time igniting the harder to ignite LPG mixture more readily, providing less strain on the ignition system.

I tried regular Platinum's, Iridium and LPG specifics and while expensive, the NGK LPG plugs were definately the best.

mullingar

I forgot to mention the plugs on my shopping list.!

A set of 6x NGK LPG1's cost me €100

sorel

Matt Simis wrote: »

What?
What is "worse" and what is a "normal" spark plug? LPG should be run on Iridium plugs, while readily available they are not an average, normal plug.

The NGK "LPG" plugs are most definitely better for LPG, they feature both platinum and iridium components to resist corrosion and pitting unique to LPG while at the same time igniting the harder to ignite LPG mixture more readily, providing less strain on the ignition system.

I tried regular Platinum's, Iridium and LPG specifics and while expensive, the NGK LPG plugs were definately the best.

Ok. Did you only read about it or it is your experience?. You can use new special, perfect etc. oil, spark plugs, flash lube for LPG.

aidanki

Matt Simis wrote: »

What?
What is "worse" and what is a "normal" spark plug? LPG should be run on Iridium plugs, while readily available they are not an average, normal plug.

The NGK "LPG" plugs are most definitely better for LPG, they feature both platinum and iridium components to resist corrosion and pitting unique to LPG while at the same time igniting the harder to ignite LPG mixture more readily, providing less strain on the ignition system.

I tried regular Platinum's, Iridium and LPG specifics and while expensive, the NGK LPG plugs were definately the best.

What car you running on LPG?

Matt Simis

sorel wrote: »

Ok. Did you only read about it or it is your experience?. You can use new special, perfect etc. oil, spark plugs, flash lube for LPG.

I already said I tried all 3 plug types personally.

Matt Simis wrote: »

I tried regular Platinum's, Iridium and LPG specifics and while expensive, the NGK LPG plugs were definitely the best.

When its something Ive read, I would usually try and state it as such.

aidanki wrote: »

What car you running on LPG?

I had till I sold it last year a 340bhp Audi S8 4.2litre with 185k miles on the clock on LPG.

aidanki

Are you going to go back to LPG again?

sorel

.......................
Quote:
Originally Posted by Matt Simis
I tried regular Platinum's, Iridium and LPG specifics and while expensive, the NGK LPG plugs were definitely the best.
.......................

Why Matt Simis the NGK LPG plugs were definitely the best and why normal / "for petrol"/spark plugs for this engine worse ?.explain please

Matt Simis

sorel wrote: »

.......................
Quote:
Originally Posted by Matt Simis
I tried regular Platinum's, Iridium and LPG specifics and while expensive, the NGK LPG plugs were definitely the best.
.......................

Why Matt Simis the NGK LPG plugs were definitely the best and why normal / "for petrol"/spark plugs for this engine worse ?.explain please

I asked you the exact same thing, to which you again replied with a question and not an answer. You based your statement on seemingly nothing as you didnt qualify it, I based mine on experience as I stated. NGK make the case for their LPG plugs on their site and my experience backed that up. Just read the site.

Im not going to continue this stupid back and forth unless you actually start providing some backup or answers for the random things you keep coming out with.

aidanki wrote: »

Are you going to go back to LPG again?

Definitely however my own personal living and location plans got in the way of it for now. Was planning on getting the 740i done.

sorel

Matt Simis wrote: »

I asked you the exact same thing, to which you again replied with a question and not an answer. You based your statement on seemingly nothing as you didnt qualify it, I based mine on experience as I stated. NGK make the case for their LPG plugs on their site and my experience backed that up. Just read the site.

Im not going to continue this stupid back and forth unless you actually start providing some backup or answers for the random things you keep coming out with.

Definitely however my own personal living and location plans got in the way of it for now. Was planning on getting the 740i done.

I never used any "special" thing for LPG like spark plugs, flash lube etc. and I didn't notice any difference when engine works on petrol or LPG. That's why when somebody wants me to spend extra €100 for things I don't need I always ask why...

daRobot

sorel wrote: »

I never used any "special" thing for LPG like spark plugs, flash lube etc. and I didn't notice any difference when engine works on petrol or LPG. That's why when somebody wants me to spend extra €100 for things I don't need I always ask why...

It's not that you need the LPG spark plugs, he's just saying that they're more efficient, and work better.

sorel

daRobot wrote: »

It's not that you need the LPG spark plugs, he's just saying that they're more efficient, and work better.

daRobot. Do you use that sparks plugs?. if no, have you any problem?. do you use flash lube?.if no , have you any problem?. If there are on the market new tires, air filters, oil filters etc. designed for LPG will you buy them?. If yes, I will try to do good business to make that things for LPG users tomorrow.

daRobot

sorel wrote: »

daRobot. Do you use that sparks plugs?. if no, have you any problem?. do you use flash lube?.if no , have you any problem?. If there are on the market new tires, air filters, oil filters etc. designed for LPG will you buy them?. If yes, I will try to do good business to make that things for LPG users tomorrow.

No, I don't use them, but I do use NGK Iridium plugs which are good for LPG.

Like I said in my previous post (why do people have to repeat themselves again and again to you?) they are not necessary but perform better .

And no, I don't use flashlube for my car as it's not needed for a LS430, but for others it may be needed.

I also have absolutely no idea what point you're trying to make here, by the way. It would follow on in the same vein as your previous posts, which have a puzzling logic at the very best.