My LS430 - Converted to LPG - Review

sorel

mickman wrote: »

have you read this

http://www.amrautos.co.uk/index.php/lpg-systems

20.000.000 /20mln/ vehicles converted to LPG in the world.Maximum 0.5% converted cars use flash lube. Why?. Maybe somebody knows?.

Matt Simis

mickman wrote: »

have you read this

http://www.amrautos.co.uk/index.php/lpg-systems

Aside from the hateful "facebook" list website design... seems they are trying to ruin the market for others now that they have commercially failed in their conversion business? I find it hard to believe they would put in the time and effort to just let us strangers know how awful the product they have been trying to sell for "15years" actually is now they dont do it any more for any honest reason.

Tragedy

What a weird post. Just because they disagree with your stance on LPG Matt, it doesn't mean they're a commercial failure trying to ruin the market dishonestly.

They stated that the price of LPG has increased massively, and that modern engines are becoming increasingly difficult to fit and run LPG (reliably, and long term). Both of these are objective facts.

Nothing in your post is factual or objective, it's just a pretty nasty post because someone (a professional LPG fitter no less) deigned to have a different opinion.

Shock, horror.

(also, from a quick search, they seem to have a very good reputation as a LR/RR LPG fitter)

who_ru

sorel wrote: »

20.000.000 /20mln/ vehicles converted to LPG in the world.Maximum 0.5% converted cars use flash lube. Why?. Maybe somebody knows?.

using flashlube is that rear? some people here seem to think it's essential.


that post about the business in the UK no longer converting cars to run on LPG is food for thought.

dh0011

to be honest i have been thinking about it for a while but the more i look into it the less likely I am to do it.

who_ru

dh0011 wrote: »

to be honest i have been thinking about it for a while but the more i look into it the less likely I am to do it.

I am tending to agree with you. having read just a few people's experiences online it seems that 'install in a day' type people are to be avoided at all costs. many people in the uk have spent upwards of 2k sterling on getting a proper installation job done which takes 2-3 days to do.

i think i will hold off for now and do some more research.

dh0011

what has me worried is that the valves in the engine could burn out. I have a toyota with vvti and aparently the valves are fairly soft and even with flashlube can have problems.
If you come across any info while doing your research pass it on who_ru

who_ru

dh0011 wrote: »

what has me worried is that the valves in the engine could burn out. I have a toyota with vvti and aparently the valves are fairly soft and even with flashlube can have problems.
If you come across any info while doing your research pass it on who_ru

i've found this website for an approved installer up north, the faq section on their site says a proper installation job takes about 3 days.

i'm going to give them a ring tomorroe and find out more.

http://www.alternativefuelcompany.co.uk/Home.html

mickman

flashlube isnt cheap

http://www.amazon.co.uk/s/ref=nb_sb_noss_1?url=search-alias%3Daps&field-keywords=flashlube&sprefix=flash%2Caps&rh=i%3Aaps%2Ck%3Aflashlube

fletch

who_ru wrote: »

0.85 cents per litre.

:eek: WOW that's cheap....less than a cent a litre!

jca

fletch wrote: »

:eek: WOW that's cheap....less than a cent a litre!

Smart Alec....

mullingar

With the full DIY kit I bought, 5L of flashlube was €55.

As 1ml is needed to treat every 1L of LPG, thats the equivalent of 1.1c of flashlube per litre of LPG

Edit, I just worked it out, if the car did 22mpg on LPG, 5L would treat enough fuel for 30,000 miles.

Matt Simis

Tragedy wrote: »

What a weird post. Just because they disagree with your stance on LPG Matt, it doesn't mean they're a commercial failure trying to ruin the market dishonestly.

They stated that the price of LPG has increased massively, and that modern engines are becoming increasingly difficult to fit and run LPG (reliably, and long term). Both of these are objective facts.

Nothing in your post is factual or objective, it's just a pretty nasty post because someone (a professional LPG fitter no less) deigned to have a different opinion.

Shock, horror.

(also, from a quick search, they seem to have a very good reputation as a LR/RR LPG fitter)

"Shock horror" all you want, its just my opinion. Ive been in small business before and when exiting it, there is the temptation to claim its everyone else's fault or take as much as you can down with you. They actually did this though!?

There is nothing in my post factual obviously.. since Im not quoting data or facts, its just an opinion. I would hardly consider my post "pretty nasty" as they publically declared they commercially fail/left the market (and we all agree if they were making profit this wouldnt happen right?) and, as I said, instead of just moving on, they took the time to $hit all over the their former's competitors business. And continue to pay for hosting of such negativity.. why would any reputable business do such things?

Not sure how you see that as me "being weird".. Nothing in their 5page rant can be taken as fact IMO as it posted by a bitter former installer. Its as unbiased as Topaz writing it. Why would you even defend them is a much better question.

Tragedy wrote: »

They stated that the price of LPG has increased massively, and that modern engines are becoming increasingly difficult to fit and run LPG (reliably, and long term). Both of these are objective facts.

The price of Petrol is around EUR1.60 and the price of LPG is EUR0.85, yeah, LPG is not £0.40 a litre anymore but it a dumbass argument to claim LPG is "so much much expensive its pointless" when you ignore both the relative pricing and the fact LPG can be sourced within Europe and Oz and not via petty dictatorship-land.

The difficulty and complexity of fueling modern engines is mirrored within Petrol and Diesel fuel supply too. Yes its a fact, but in isolation doesnt actually mean anything other than "engines are more complicated".


This is a stupid tangent IMO.

Tragedy

Matt Simis wrote: »

"Shock horror" all you want, its just my opinion. Ive been in small business before and when exiting it, there is the temptation to claim its everyone else's fault or take as much as you can down with you. They actually did this though!?

More of you projecting upon some random person because of your own personal bias and weird God complex where no-one can ever believe differently than Matt Simis.

There is nothing in my post factual obviously.. since Im not quoting data or facts, its just an opinion. I would hardly consider my post "pretty nasty" as they publically declared they commercially fail/left the market (and we all agree if they were making profit this wouldnt happen right?) and, as I said, instead of just moving on, they took the time to $hit all over the their former's competitors business. And continue to pay for hosting of such negativity.. why would any reputable business do such things?

It's pretty nasty to call someone dishonest, a failure and disreputable just because their opinion is different.

Why would you even defend them is a much better question.

Here we go again, Matt Simis attacking the motives of people who don't believe exactly the same as him.
Sorry Master, I most surely won't ever disagree with you again. Obviously I'm a failed LPG installer, disreputably and dishonestly trying to ruin LPG. Or I work for a petrol company. Or I'm a citizen of Saudi Arabia and don't want LPG to grow more widespread and threaten my country's income

:rolleyes:

sorel

who_ru wrote: »

using flashlube is that rear? some people here seem to think it's essential.


that post about the business in the UK no longer converting cars to run on LPG is food for thought.

what can damage the valves?. Higher temperature and no matter what kind of fuel use to run your engine - petrol, CNG, LPG, diesel etc. New cars have a lot electronics systems. When the mixture of fuel and air is lean the temperature is too high. New LPG ECU works exactly the same as petrol ECU.
When there is something wrong, light check engine on. If there is no fault, engine is save.

Matt Simis

Tragedy wrote: »

More of you projecting upon some random person because of your own personal bias and weird God complex where no-one can ever believe differently than Matt Simis.


It's pretty nasty to call someone dishonest, a failure and disreputable just because their opinion is different.


Here we go again, Matt Simis attacking the motives of people who don't believe exactly the same as him.
Sorry Master, I most surely won't ever disagree with you again. Obviously I'm a failed LPG installer, disreputably and dishonestly trying to ruin LPG. Or I work for a petrol company. Or I'm a citizen of Saudi Arabia and don't want LPG to grow more widespread and threaten my country's income

:rolleyes:

Do you have a point related to LPG other than trying to doll up a dislike of me?

The Pontiac

who_ru wrote: »

I am tending to agree with you. having read just a few people's experiences online it seems that 'install in a day' type people are to be avoided at all costs. many people in the uk have spent upwards of 2k sterling on getting a proper installation job done which takes 2-3 days to do.

i think i will hold off for now and do some more research.

Yes, from reading a few UK forums, the advice I'm getting is a good LPG conversion takes 3 days.

But most boardies are getting their cars done in a day, for less than €1000 (£850) in most instances, far less than our Uk counterparts.

bidiots

Matt Simis wrote: »

Do you have a point related to LPG other than trying to doll up a dislike of me?

Tragedy

Matt Simis wrote: »

Do you have a point related to LPG other than trying to doll up a dislike of me?

Do you have a point related to LPG other than trying to libel an ex-LPG installer who disagrees with you?

No?

Tragedy

The Pontiac wrote: »

Yes, from reading a few UK forums, the advice I'm getting is a good LPG conversion takes 3 days.

But most boardies are getting their cars done in a day, for less than €1000 (£850) in most instances, far less than our Uk counterparts.

I was involved in a discussion on LPG on octane.ie before it closed. When I suggested that installations in the UK on high performance 6/8 cylinder cars (<300hp) cost above £2000, I had a poster personally attack me for being anti-LPG, of spreading misinformation and trying to discredit LPG. Even though I could link to hundreds of forum threads with people posting quotes for installations costing this - apparently I was making up the figure to make LPG seem unattractive?

You get what you pay for and the cheapest isn't always the best. lpgforum.co.uk is a goldmine of information, and will generally have threads on any specific engine that people are looking at converting.

The Pontiac

Tragedy wrote: »

I was involved in a discussion on LPG on octane.ie before it closed. When I suggested that installations in the UK on high performance 6/8 cylinder cars (<300hp) cost above £2000, I had a poster personally attack me for being anti-LPG, of spreading misinformation and trying to discredit LPG. Even though I could link to hundreds of forum threads with people posting quotes for installations costing this - apparently I was making up the figure to make LPG seem unattractive?

You get what you pay for and the cheapest isn't always the best. lpgforum.co.uk is a goldmine of information, and will generally have threads on any specific engine that people are looking at converting.

The same advice I was getting from reading a few UK Saab forums. I don't know any Irish installers where it takes 3 days. Something surely isn't right there.

I might visit a few a few Dutch forums and seek advice there, where LPG is very popular.

Must have a look at lpgforum.co.uk too, cheers!

Matt Simis

Tragedy wrote: »

I was involved in a discussion on LPG on octane.ie before it closed. When I suggested that installations in the UK on high performance 6/8 cylinder cars (<300hp) cost above £2000, I had a poster personally attack me for being anti-LPG, of spreading misinformation and trying to discredit LPG. Even though I could link to hundreds of forum threads with people posting quotes for installations costing this - apparently I was making up the figure to make LPG seem unattractive?

You get what you pay for and the cheapest isn't always the best. lpgforum.co.uk is a goldmine of information, and will generally have threads on any specific engine that people are looking at converting.

Lol, that sounds like me but Im not sure. Was the guys name "mattsimis"?
FWIW, I got my S8 converted in the North and it took 4 days and cost about £1500. Now I dont know about the quality of the "local" LPG installers as they werent around then and Ive never used them, but at this point in time I personally would be willing to give them a chance. I wasnt that overly impressed by the reputed (on LPGForum.co.uk) UK installers work and that was from actual experience.

Prices in the UK will definitely be higher as they have more demand, sell more expensive branded LPG gear and far higher costs/salary expectations than the mostly non-Irish guys doing the installs here at the moment.. it is afterall a different country with a different currency, so making a direct exchange rate comparison doesnt really mean that much anyhow. The foreign guys in work laugh at the UK prices as LPG is pretty "normal" in Poland etc and installs about a 1/3 of the price (and therefore cheaper than here, which doesnt mean our installs are somehow better than one in Slovakia).

The people who have got "local" LPG installs seem happy so far too.

The Pontiac wrote: »

The same advice I was getting from reading a few UK Saab forums. I don't know any Irish installers where it takes 3 days. Something surely isn't right there.

You should ring and talk to a couple of the local guys and get their take, from the horses mouth.

The Pontiac

Matt Simis wrote: »

You should ring and talk to a couple of the local guys and get their take, from the horses mouth.

Definitely a good idea.

In fairness, we haven't heard any horror stories yet of the Irish installers.

Tragedy

The Pontiac wrote: »

The same advice I was getting from reading a few UK Saab forums. I don't know any Irish installers where it takes 3 days. Something surely isn't right there.

I might visit a few a few Dutch forums and seek advice there, where LPG is very popular.

Must have a look at lpgforum.co.uk too, cheers!

Owner's clubs are great for info on successful long-term LPG conversions, uksaabs.co.uk should let you know everything you need to. Saabnoob on there has also mapped quite a few LPG 9-5 Aero's, so you could always send him a PM.

grotmaster

Deleted User wrote: »

I just checked, the new GS450H is €390 to tax based on C02 of 145 g/km.

Fuel consumption is 49 extra urban and 45 combined. That's not half bad for such power!

The previous model is 173 g/km and 740 odd to tax and 35 mpg combined.

I sold a 2006 GS450h, 120,000miles in 2011 for a former Polish colleague with poor Béarla. I had the use of the car for the time it took me to sell it, and while a fantastic car, the actual mpg was truly awful. 18 mpg on the motorway. Tax was €1566 back then, obviously more now. I assume you're referring to a 2008+ model?

The car was sold after 3 mths online for €10,000, down from €17,000 and the last I heard from the new owner 3mths later; hybrid drive gave up.:mad:

jca

I really can't see the connection between length of time to do an install and quality of the final installation. Surely its down to quality of components being used and the skill and reputation of the company doing the work. Actually that's what I thought this thread was about....

sorel

Conversions prices in Ireland are funny cheap. Why?.Don't know, but I think it wont be for long. Somebody needs 3 days to convert car, somebody else 5 days, but when car is converting by 2 or 3 good mechanics it can take 8 hours.also one day doesn't mean always 8 hours. Day has 24h...

jca

Never met a Mechanic who knew an 8 hour day yet!!

sorel

jca wrote: »

Never met a Mechanic who knew an 8 hour day yet!!

That's why it's possible to do conversion in "one" day. I know many people who need 3 days to start job, 2 days to think about this and on the end broke everything that somebody else can do in 15 min.

jca

sorel wrote: »

That's why it's possible to do conversion in "one" day. I know many people who need 3 days to start job, 2 days to think about this and on the end broke everything that somebody else can do in 15 min.

They're the ones you don't want;)