Kerry CC support permit system which allows rural people drink and drive

Esel

jimmy180sx wrote: »

Is anyone else reading these posts in a south kerry accent?

De pee-ah-pel who ate der dinner in de middle of de day will tink dis is a mighty idea....

lintdrummer

Nobody here has mentioned that drink driving is rife in rural Ireland as it is. It's not like it used to be, people don't get mouldy and drive, but many people have a couple over a few hours and drive home. A lot of people just don't understand how life is for a large portion of the population. There is literally no way to get to the "local" other than to drive.
While this proposal is clearly flawed it's simply acknowledging a problem that already exists. From living in the rural area I'm from I can honestly say that I believe people are not posing any great risk by driving home from our local. Nobody would allow someone who was well oiled to drive home, the publican would give a lift to anyone well over the limit.
Perhaps a better proposal would be if the publican has responsibility for the permits. He's providing the alcohol, let him make a judgment on who can drive based on what they've drank/where they're going?
Anyway, I'll most likely be berated for this post but I'll say this: it is a real issue that needs to be solved. There are no taxis in the areas in question and there will never be a late night door to door rural public transport system. The suggestion that if all these people want to go to the pub they shouldn't drink is unreasonable. The publican bringing people home is happening but most of them surely don't own a minibus and there's only so much they can do.
Another thought: a grant for publicans to purchase a minibus and a permit to use green diesel. Would encourage stricter enforcement of closing time too, the extra time spent driving would encourage the publican to get everyone home as soon as 11.30 or whatever comes.

It wasn't me!

lintdrummer wrote: »

The suggestion that if all these people want to go to the pub they shouldn't drink is unreasonable.

Um, no, it's not. Want to drink? Don't drive. Want to drive? Don't drink. It really is that simple. Nobody needs to drink. They will not shrivel up, wither and die without alcohol. I mean, your statement has absolutely no basis. Why is it unreasonable? Because they want to drink? Then find someone to give you a lift. Can't do that? Don't drink then. You can still go and socialise. Think that's unreasonable? I think it's unreasonable that people will get in their cars having taken a substance whose detrimental effect on driving skills and reaction times is well documented, whatever that might be, and my family and hundreds and thousands of others have people missing as a result of that behaviour. The suggestion that someone's right to drink alcohol is so important that they should gamble with other people's lives is not only unreasonable, however, but genuinely offensive, and make no mistake, that's exactly what's at the heart of this.

lintdrummer

It wasn't me! wrote: »

Um, no, it's not.

Yes it is. Like it or not, many, many people are incapable of socialising without a drink. And for a lot of the people we're talking about, going to the pub is all they have. Sad but true.
I'm sorry for your loss and I hope I haven't come across as insensitive. I do not agree with drink driving as we all understand it. A drunk person is a danger in a vehicle and should never be allowed to drive. But what I do believe is that a person can be over the legal limit, but not drunk, and be very capable of driving on a quiet road home.

It wasn't me!

lintdrummer wrote: »

Yes it is. Like it or not, many, many people are incapable of socialising without a drink. And for a lot of the people we're talking about, going to the pub is all they have. Sad but true.

Anyone for whom this is the case is pathetic, and fcuk them. Their right to be sociable can not come at the expense of others being endangered by their behaviour. If they can't socialise without drinking they can socialise at home, and should seek professional help. Sad but true doesn't even begin to cover that.

I'm sorry for your loss and I hope I haven't come across as insensitive. I do not agree with drink driving as we all understand it. A drunk person is a danger in a vehicle and should never be allowed to drive. But what I do believe is that a person can be over the legal limit, but not drunk, and be very capable of driving on a quiet road home.

And yet studies show that alcohol even at the low legal limit has an effect on people's reaction times and ability to drive well. That's simply not tolerable. If I'm tired, I pull over. If I'm on medication that makes me drowsy, I don't drive. If, in other words, I'm not absolutely in perfect shape to drive, I don't. It's not worth the risk, to me or to anyone else. Someone can drive home safely from the pub a thousand times in a row, but what happens the one time they unexpectedly encounter a situation alcohol alone has rendered them unable to deal with and someone is injured or killed? Was it okay because they got home safely all those other times?

lintdrummer

And by the same token a sober, perfectly able person could make a thousand safe journeys and on one occasion get momentarily distracted and cause an accident. That doesn't justify taking everybody off the road.
This argument is moot anyway because this proposal won't go any further. It's too open to abuse and hasn't been thought through. A solution is needed though, as I've said people are and will continue drink driving in rural areas.

Lyaiera

Feck cycle lanes we need drunk lanes. Little roads running 25 metres parallel to regular roads. Drunks can use them, boy racers can speed on them, foreigners can drive on whatever side of the road they like. Not only would there be thousands of jobs created in building them we'd make a fortune on tourism (and that's only Top Gear doing Christmas specials on them.)

MadsL

omega666 wrote: »

its not a bad idea, it's sad to see the old rural pub die out.
I'd imagine the permits would be only given out selectively, some of these rural
roads would have no traffic at all as most of them would only have a few houses or in some cases the only house would be the drivers themselves.

4 or 5 pints and tip away home at 20 or 30 miles an hour up your own
booreen. The chances of killing some one are fairly slim.

http://www.independent.ie/national-news/courts/drunk-driver-wont-face-trial-over-death-of-fireman-garda-1981621.html

Seems you can get away with, literally, murder in Kerry.

Why not adopt their proposal and just remove all policing totally from Kerry for a month. Then ask Kerry CC if they would like the guards back policing their posts.

By contrast I was at US Driving School today having been offered school rather than points for speeding. I was doing 42 in a 30...bad me. I learnt something about how the US deals with DUI. 1st offence -6 months to 1 year license revocation (1 year if under 21) and up to 90 days jail. 2nd Offence - up to 1 year jail-time with 96 hours mandatory.

I also learnt that if I am a passenger in a car when the driver has been been drinking and I am also drunk then if the driver kills someone, even if they are under the BAC limit, then I am also charged as an accessory.

Sir Digby Chicken Caesar

you'd swear the government was forcing people to live 10 miles away from their local the way people are suggesting bus routes or taxis. if you choose to live far away from towns, you have to deal with the fact that your services are going to suck compared to someone in a town or a city.

plus you can always just bloody walk home.

hoodwinked

lintdrummer wrote: »

Nobody here has mentioned that drink driving is rife in rural Ireland as it is. It's not like it used to be, people don't get mouldy and drive, but many people have a couple over a few hours and drive home. A lot of people just don't understand how life is for a large portion of the population. There is literally no way to get to the "local" other than to drive.
While this proposal is clearly flawed it's simply acknowledging a problem that already exists. From living in the rural area I'm from I can honestly say that I believe people are not posing any great risk by driving home from our local. Nobody would allow someone who was well oiled to drive home, the publican would give a lift to anyone well over the limit.
Perhaps a better proposal would be if the publican has responsibility for the permits. He's providing the alcohol, let him make a judgment on who can drive based on what they've drank/where they're going?
Anyway, I'll most likely be berated for this post but I'll say this: it is a real issue that needs to be solved. There are no taxis in the areas in question and there will never be a late night door to door rural public transport system. The suggestion that if all these people want to go to the pub they shouldn't drink is unreasonable. The publican bringing people home is happening but most of them surely don't own a minibus and there's only so much they can do.
Another thought: a grant for publicans to purchase a minibus and a permit to use green diesel. Would encourage stricter enforcement of closing time too, the extra time spent driving would encourage the publican to get everyone home as soon as 11.30 or whatever comes.

I Live in a city suburb, plenty of taxis, our local has bought a mini bus and hired a driver who when you ring them will go collect them and bring them home for free, its to stop the elderly from drink driving and its working. why can't rural pubs do the same if their customers are that important to them...


And as someone who drives in a rural area due to some family living there i completely disagree, they are posing a great risk, i hope to god i never come across a drunk driver as those roads can be deadly enough as it is with the speeding that happens on them, and ive seen some deadly antics on those rural roads,


ive seen my inlaws drinking all night long hopping in the car to drive home "sure its only down the road" the fact is when that drunk they shouldn't be driving down the driveway never mind on a public road where all it will take is one neighbour coming home late to cause a potential issue,


try and tell them not to do it and you'll get a whole barrage of abuse along with "i have been doing it for years without any accident" "i could drive these roads in my sleep" "ah sure its only down the road" "who do you think you are telling me how to drive"

My husband and i operate a one of us drink one of us drive policy and its not too hard to implement to be fair,they could do it too but its sheer ignorance and laziness stopping them. They want to drink but not walk the 5 minutes down the road. these are not very elderly lonely people these are people who love a glass of wine or three or more and will happily hop in the car and drive.

Its rampant and needs to be cracked down on, before some one does end up crashing.

Shenshen

lintdrummer wrote: »

Nobody here has mentioned that drink driving is rife in rural Ireland as it is. It's not like it used to be, people don't get mouldy and drive, but many people have a couple over a few hours and drive home. A lot of people just don't understand how life is for a large portion of the population. There is literally no way to get to the "local" other than to drive.
While this proposal is clearly flawed it's simply acknowledging a problem that already exists. From living in the rural area I'm from I can honestly say that I believe people are not posing any great risk by driving home from our local. Nobody would allow someone who was well oiled to drive home, the publican would give a lift to anyone well over the limit.
Perhaps a better proposal would be if the publican has responsibility for the permits. He's providing the alcohol, let him make a judgment on who can drive based on what they've drank/where they're going?
Anyway, I'll most likely be berated for this post but I'll say this: it is a real issue that needs to be solved. There are no taxis in the areas in question and there will never be a late night door to door rural public transport system. The suggestion that if all these people want to go to the pub they shouldn't drink is unreasonable. The publican bringing people home is happening but most of them surely don't own a minibus and there's only so much they can do.
Another thought: a grant for publicans to purchase a minibus and a permit to use green diesel. Would encourage stricter enforcement of closing time too, the extra time spent driving would encourage the publican to get everyone home as soon as 11.30 or whatever comes.

This really makes me wonder, what would all those poor, dry sods have done some 40 or 50 years ago, when next to nobody even owned a car?

Oh, yes, they may have just walked or taken a bicycle.

And now, obviously, they are utterly unable to get from their home to the nearest pub by any other means than their own car.... poor people.

Not even enough cop-on to organise a car pool or have a designated driver. Sad indeed.

Balmed Out

Shenshen wrote: »

This really makes me wonder, what would all those poor, dry sods have done some 40 or 50 years ago, when next to nobody even owned a car?

There were far more smaller pubs then, and do you want a lot of drunk cyclists going around the place?

Shenshen wrote: »

Not even enough cop-on to organise a car pool or have a designated driver. Sad indeed.

Youre comparing rural areas to urban, a car pool of 4 people could well be a 45 minute journey. Many a 4 miles as the crow flies can be 15 miles following a road.

keano_afc

the groutch wrote: »

shows how stupid the people of Kerry were when they voted two more Healy-Raes onto the CC.

Its parish pump politics at its worst. "Shure he helped with getting the road, I'll give him a vote".

Every one of those Healy-Rae's are a skidmark on the political underpant. In it for the money and have no shame in antything they do. Has Jackie given back his pension that was overpaid yet?

hoodwinked

Balmed Out wrote: »

There were far more smaller pubs then, and do you want a lot of drunk cyclists going around the place?



Youre comparing rural areas to urban, a car pool of 4 people could well be a 45 minute journey. Many a 4 miles as the crow flies can be 15 miles following a road.

you are assuming all rural drink drivers live miles apart what about the case in my post above?

CruelCoin

OP,

Please don't be so naive to think that country folk are so good as to be completely tee-total in the face of a total lack of public transport.

Most country people drink drive. All this will do is normalise the legal situation somewhat.

listermint

CruelCoin wrote: »

OP,

Please don't be so naive to think that country folk are so good as to be completely tee-total in the face of a total lack of public transport.

Most country people drink drive. All this will do is normalise the legal situation somewhat.

What does normalise the legal situation somewhat mean ?


Does that help my father who was rammed from behind by some pure filthy muck bag who was driving back to naas or whereever the hell he was from tanked up with alchohol? Wrote the car off and only for my father was extremely fortunate he is still here.

The other lads car ended up on its side with 2 young female passengers in it.



Normalise the situation...... Id love to boot Healy Rae and all his cohorts right up the arse. They make Clay Davis from the wire look like a pure angel.

WoollyRedHat

liam7831 wrote: »

I suppose if you don't like it then well don't come don't to kerry

Kerry isn't the wild wild west... and being a citizen of the Republic of Ireland comes with the freedom of every county.

Scanlas The 2nd

Sir Digby Chicken Caesar wrote: »

you'd swear the government was forcing people to live 10 miles away from their local the way people are suggesting bus routes or taxis. if you choose to live far away from towns, you have to deal with the fact that your services are going to suck compared to someone in a town or a city.

plus you can always just bloody walk home.

Drink walking home is 8 times more likely to lead to a death than drink driving home. Source Freakonomics.

Balmed Out

hoodwinked wrote: »

you are assuming all rural drink drivers live miles apart what about the case in my post above?

What are you talking about? Where did I make that assumption!!!
I never ever drink and drive and am not condoning it, im just saying that its a very different crime to drive on main roads or through urban areas then to do so up a coastal boreen that has a total traffic flow of 3 cars in a 24 hour period.

Sir Digby Chicken Caesar

Scanlas The 2nd wrote: »

Drink walking home is 8 times more likely to lead to a death than drink driving home. Source Freakonomics.

death for the person walking, very hard to kill an innocent bystander when you're walking home instead of driving.

plus we're talking about walking home after 2-3 pints, not 15

listermint

Balmed Out wrote: »

What are you talking about? Where did I make that assumption!!!
I never ever drink and drive and am not condoning it, im just saying that its a very different crime to drive on main roads or through urban areas then to do so up a coastal boreen that has a total traffic flow of 3 cars in a 24 hour period.

Ah right so then killing oneself is alright then. Have you looked at road stats on how many people die each year in single vehicle collisions ?


Off you trot then...

Thundercats Ho

Has the VFI made a statement on these imbeciles advocating drink driving?
He'd rather put the lives of his own punters at risk, and anyone else that may be on the roads, than set up a shuttle service at closing time. Greedy incosiderate baxstard.
This is a slap in the face to anyone who has lost a loved one to drink driving.
This Healy Rae idiot should be ashamed of himself (if he had the brains to do so).

John_Rambo

mikemac1 wrote: »

the money that gets pumped into the transport systems in the cities!

You got that wrong.

"The money" is made in the cities Mikemac1... the cities cover all their expenses by far, the rest of the money is pumped in to rural areas.

Balmed Out

listermint wrote: »

Ah right so then killing oneself is alright then. Have you looked at road stats on how many people die each year in single vehicle collisions ?


Off you trot then...

Im not the one sitting on a high horse trotting anywhere.
Did I say I support drink driving ????????

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

Scanlas The 2nd wrote: »

Drink walking home is 8 times more likely to lead to a death than drink driving home. Source Freakonomics.

Darwin comes in to play here - the drink-walker is only going to kill himself, not anyone else.

listermint

Balmed Out wrote: »

Im not the one sitting on a high horse trotting anywhere.
Did I say I support drink driving ????????

I dont have a horse.


Also by your comments you seem to favour it but spouting some nonsense about urban roads and rural boreens. did you not?

Utter nonsense, now trot on and look at the stats.

CruelCoin

listermint wrote: »

What does normalise the legal situation somewhat mean ?


Does that help my father who was rammed from behind by some pure filthy muck bag who was driving back to naas or whereever the hell he was from tanked up with alchohol? Wrote the car off and only for my father was extremely fortunate he is still here.

The other lads car ended up on its side with 2 young female passengers in it.



Normalise the situation...... Id love to boot Healy Rae and all his cohorts right up the arse. They make Clay Davis from the wire look like a pure angel.

Normalise the situation basically means making it legal for something to happen which happens anyway, and will always happen anyway.

Also, there is a big difference between driving with 3 pints and driving with 15.

After 3 pints, i still have faster reflexes than a sober granny, so the current drink laws are a bit ridiculous.

listermint

CruelCoin wrote: »

Normalise the situation basically means making it legal for something to happen which happens anyway, and will always happen anyway.

Also, there is a big difference between driving with 3 pints and driving with 15.

After 3 pints, i still have faster reflexes than a sober granny, so the current drink laws are a bit ridiculous.

Your comments sir are ridiculous. Im sorry but i cannot engage in utter stupidity.

Wibbs

Look folks it's one of the Healy-Raes, the insanity and the cute hoorism is a given.

hoodwinked

Balmed Out wrote: »

What are you talking about? Where did I make that assumption!!!
I never ever drink and drive and am not condoning it, im just saying that its a very different crime to drive on main roads or through urban areas then to do so up a coastal boreen that has a total traffic flow of 3 cars in a 24 hour period.

you said:

Balmed Out wrote: »

There were far more smaller pubs then, and do you want a lot of drunk cyclists going around the place?



Youre comparing rural areas to urban, a car pool of 4 people could well be a 45 minute journey. Many a 4 miles as the crow flies can be 15 miles following a road.

you are assuming all rural drink drivers live miles apart, the ones i know live on the same road and they still can't organise one of them to drive rather than drink.

in fact you assume again here:

Balmed Out wrote: »

, im just saying that its a very different crime to drive on main roads or through urban areas then to do so up a coastal boreen that has a total traffic flow of 3 cars in a 24 hour period.

these people are rural and do live on a boreen but that same boreen would have a lot more than 3 cars in a 24 hour period it can be busier than some urban roads i know.