Is anyone else worried about Saturday's loyalist protest?

cheboludo

I am quite worried about what could happen on saturday if the loyalist protest goes ahead. Can it be stopped? is it legal for citizens of another country to protest outside the Dáil?

Irishnige

I would stay away from town that day would be suprised if there's a lot of hassle at it!!

Death and Taxes

cheboludo wrote: »

I am quite worried about what could happen on saturday if the loyalist protest goes ahead. Can it be stopped? is it legal for citizens of another country to protest outside the Dáil?

Well in the first instance it could be argued that they are citizens of this country.
I dont see how it can be stopped, personally I'm not worried about the loyalists , but I am very worried about the so called "republican" rent a mob who will use this as an excuse to riot and loot.

cheboludo

That is my worry also,.... and the thugs who just love an excuse to riot.

NIMAN

Not worried. Riot or not, it will pass, like the one after the Love Ulster march, and life will go on. As long as no-one is killed or seriously injured.

Got more important things to worry about in life than a bunch of backward folk whose lives have come to a standstill over the flying of a flag. Other backward folk may well cause some bother, but as I say, it won't affect my life one iota.

Now if I was a Guard, or a shopkeeper or business owner nearby I might be worried.

awec

This post has been deleted.

Harry Deerpark

There probably will be trouble. While the loyalists are being provocative as usual, the skangers in Celtic jerseys need very little excuse to act the bollocks. Both government should round both sides up, put them in a remote field somewhere and let them fight to the death. The North and South would be better off without these savages.

cheboludo

Perhaps the three buses which are coming down from the north could be stopped at the border? The guards could use public safety or something similar as a reason to refuse entry? I really don't think it should be allowed to go ahead. They say that only three buses are coming down but what about the possible hundreds of others who will make their own way down. It will be chaos if goes ahead, the thugs who love a riot are licking their lips in Dublin. They have had a week or so to plan a response. The whole thing is a worry, I feel sorry for the guards and business owners/employees near the Dáil.

Sierra Oscar

The tricolour only flies over Leinster House when the Dáil is in session - which it is not this Saturday. So Willie and his cohort will essentially be demanding the removal of a flag that is not even flying. Should be comical.

VinLieger

Love how nobody seems to care about the businesses located near the dail, who if it does go ahead are gonna loose out on alot of people not willing to come into town due to the possibility of violence and they face the very real possibility of damage and looting to their premises.
For this reason alone the "protest" should not be allowed

Harry Deerpark

VinLieger wrote: »

Love how nobody seems to care about the businesses located near the dail, who if it does go ahead are gonna loose out on alot of people not willing to come into town due to the possibility of violence and they face the very real possibility of damage and looting to their premises.
For this reason alone the "protest" should not be allowed

I do. I wasn't in that day (don't work Saturdays) but my old workplace was terrorized by the 2006 riots. That is why I suggested putting them in a field somewhere and let them have it out.

It's a shame both governments will agree that they have right to protest, even over something a ridiculous as this. Common sense doesn't prevail anymore.

wexie

Harry Deerpark wrote: »

Common sense doesn't prevail anymore.

Common sense has been replaced by political correctness and Health and Safety....did nobody tell you?

kirving

The Gardai learned their lesson last time. Plenty of pepper spray, dogs and horses will be out and about.

Skrynesaver

wexie wrote: »

Common sense has been replaced by political correctness and Health and Safety....did nobody tell you?

In fairness common sense has never been very common

Hootanany

Perhaps Enda might try to talk some reason in to them.

chughes

Hootanany wrote: »

Perhaps Enda might try to talk some reason in to them.

cheboludo wrote: »

It's more likely that Jedward will win a Grammy.

What about if Jedward spoke to them? I'd imagine Willie and the Grimes brothers share a similar IQ level.

T-K-O

It would be some craic if we took the flag down just as they turned corner. "what flag'

I'm not worried but at the same time I will avoid town

awec

This post has been deleted.

T-K-O

awec wrote: »

It will be down, the Dáil doesn't sit on Saturdays.

..and so this protest becomes even more ridiculous. If that was even possible

hatrickpatrick

VinLieger wrote: »

Love how nobody seems to care about the businesses located near the dail, who if it does go ahead are gonna loose out on alot of people not willing to come into town due to the possibility of violence and they face the very real possibility of damage and looting to their premises.
For this reason alone the "protest" should not be allowed

Pre-emptively stifling free speech because of a hypothetical scenario of what consequences might happen is a very big step on the slippery slope to oppression...

flutered

hatrickpatrick wrote: »

Pre-emptively stifling free speech because of a hypothetical scenario of what consequences might happen is a very big step on the slippery slope to oppression...

not trying to snaffel your thread op but also is trying to control what sites internet users can use, tom hayes of fg says he wants to control the media sites.

hatrickpatrick

flutered wrote: »

not trying to snaffel your thread op but also is trying to control what sites internet users can use, tom hayes of fg says he wants to control the media sites.

There's another thread on that just below this one ya eejit MMo'C was at it as well this morning, citing the KPMG thing. Ridiculous.

Prodigious

I find it quite hilarious that the Loyalists seems to think it is a Dáil issue, or an issue that will be dealt with in any way by the republic.
On a side note: Why is the flag only flown during Dáil sessions? If anything, it would be more appropriate to fly it outside of the times of Dáil sessions, when there's no one selling the country's soul to the IMF and whatnot.

P.s: If anyone is planning for Saturday:
http://bit.ly/TH2lh7

:rolleyes:

VinLieger

hatrickpatrick wrote: »

Pre-emptively stifling free speech because of a hypothetical scenario of what consequences might happen is a very big step on the slippery slope to oppression...

There is gonna be a reaction to the protest, i suppose its up to the gardai to police it properly but i know people who work in that area and business owners are actually quite fearful of it going wrong.
Im not opposed to free speech but inciting violence and hatred isnt free speech and we saw exactly how this "protest" will turn out back in 2006 so why bother let history repeat itself?

DublinWriter

We should take down the 'trick-colour' and hoist a Union Jack on the day and watch them scurry around like overloaded-robots..."cannot compute....cannot compute!!!".

Otherwise? Meh. Any tourism is good tourism.

ruserious

I dunno about ye but I'm getting a front row seat at the Italien embassey

Prodigious

DublinWriter wrote: »

We should take down the 'trick-colour' and hoist a Union Jack on the day and watch them scurry around like overloaded-robots..."cannot compute....cannot compute!!!".

Otherwise? Meh. Any tourism is good tourism.

"Three baaaars twoooo euuuuuro"

flutered

hatrickpatrick wrote: »

There's another thread on that just below this one ya eejit MMo'C was at it as well this morning, citing the KPMG thing. Ridiculous.

as i had not got as far as the thread below how could i have known, what about the attack the post not the poster.

woodoo

ruserious wrote: »

I dunno about ye but I'm getting a front row seat at the Italian embassy

That's actually an IRA training camp for children.

hatrickpatrick

flutered wrote: »

as i had not got as far as the thread below how could i have known, what about the attack the post not the poster.

I was joking! I most duly apologize for any offense caused, I also draw you to my signature where I have a pre-written disclaimer

P_1

VinLieger wrote: »

There is gonna be a reaction to the protest, i suppose its up to the gardai to police it properly but i know people who work in that area and business owners are actually quite fearful of it going wrong.
Im not opposed to free speech but inciting violence and hatred isnt free speech and we saw exactly how this "protest" will turn out back in 2006 so why bother let history repeat itself?

My opinion is that we have nothing to fear from the actions of the Loyalist protesters themselves (although what they think they may possibly achieve by this protest is beyond me).

My main worry/concern is what will happen with the Republican counter-protesters.

I can see one of the following two scenarios happening:

1 - The city gets put into lockdown, severely inconveniencing its residents and destroying trade on the day.

2 - Love Ulster mk2.

Both of which obviously aren't good to be putting things mildly.

RobbingBandit

WileyCoyote wrote: »

Well in the first instance it could be argued that they are citizens of this country.
I dont see how it can be stopped, personally I'm not worried about the loyalists , but I am very worried about the so called "republican" rent a mob who will use this as an excuse to riot and loot.

The sad thing here is the Loyalists will use the republican idiots as an excuse to start major trouble up north again,keep out of town on Saturday is a good plan for this.

20Cent

I predict about 20 "loyalists" surrounded by 200 Gardai and journalists shuffling towards the Dail. Counter protesters not allowed anywhere near them. They'll say their bit outside then be marched back to their mini bus and feck off home an hour at most.

junder

20Cent wrote: »

I predict about 20 "loyalists" surrounded by 200 Gardai and journalists shuffling towards the Dail. Counter protesters not allowed anywhere near them. They'll say their bit outside then be marched back to their mini bus and feck off home an hour at most.

I think your pretty much on the money there. Personnly I think the reasoning behind this protest is flawed and will achieve nothing

Sin City

Dont they realise that we fly the German flag here these days?

loveboat captain

It depends if you get the real protestors or the rent a mob lot who are causing the bother. There are some proper protestors, who have been doing things peacefully. Then you have the louts who are using this as an excuse to bring bother back to the country. I should stress I dont agree with the reason behind the protest, however, everyone is entitled to protest if they feel the need to. It just baffles me that in a time when the whole world is going tits up these idiots decide to protest over a piece of cloth that they probably didnt even know flew over city hall. Surely there are better things to protest about like the health cuts? Cuts to policing budgets? Cuts to benefits? Cuts to all public services? XFactor still being inflicted on us every year?

Incidentally, if you get the louts down I hope the Gardai deal with them in the appropriate manner. Throwing them into The Liffey while wearing concrete boots would suffice

flutered

hatrickpatrick wrote: »

I was joking! I most duly apologize for any offense caused, I also draw you to my signature where I have a pre-written disclaimer

thank you, i never look at sigs, but is not a per written disclamier an easy opt out clause, not saying so in your case, but is it not an easy escape/ opt out clause.

enda1

flutered wrote: »

thank you, i never look at sigs, but is not a per written disclamier an easy opt out clause, not saying so in your case, but is it not an easy escape/ opt out clause.

Likewise. I have sigs and avatars blocked.

I've no problem with the loyalists having a peaceful protest. Let them at it and I respect their right to protest. They should also however respect our right to ignore them as I hope our democratically elected parliament chose to do, thus reflecting public opinion.

touts

The loyalists didn't riot last time. Most of the rioters were wearing celtic shirts and struck a blow for Irish freedom by looting shops such as foot locker. It was an excuse by a few scumbags for a fight and a new pair of runners.

gallag

loveboat captain wrote: »

XFactor still being inflicted on us every year?

This is the real scourge on us, as a unionist I would forget queen and County and wrap myself in a tricolour if sinn fein promised to rid us of it. Some things are just to dam important! !

enda1

touts wrote: »

The loyalists didn't riot last time. Most of the rioters were wearing celtic shirts and struck a blow for Irish freedom by looting shops such as foot locker. It was an excuse by a few scumbags for a fight and a new pair of runners.

Sounds much like the London riots of 2011. Perhaps its time to microtag soccer jerseys and reeboks. Correlate the swarm maps to crime records. Would make some interesting reading.

sheesh

hatrickpatrick wrote: »

Pre-emptively stifling free speech because of a hypothetical scenario of what consequences might happen is a very big step on the slippery slope to oppression...

the citizens of a country have a right to free speech and peaceful protest these people are citizens of the UK and are coming to the Republic to protest about the actions of their own government in Northern Ireland.

I do not need to point out (but I'm going to) the fact that they are loyalist means that they do not see themselves as part of the republic of ireland in any way.

Finally, this group protests have resulted in riots in Belfast. it is not much of a stretch to say that the same will happen in Diublin.

enda1

sheesh wrote: »

the citizens of a country have a right to free speech and peaceful protest these people are citizens of the UK and are coming to the Republic to protest about the actions of their own government in Northern Ireland.

I do not need to point out (but I'm going to) the fact that they are loyalist means that they do not see themselves as part of the republic of ireland in any way.

Finally, this group protests have resulted in riots in Belfast. it is not much of a stretch to say that the same will happen in Diublin.

All NI born people have the right to Irish citizenship. This country recognises them even if they don't want citizenship from us. And there is no way of knowing if they actually have Irish citizenship or not. So its really a moot point that you're making.

sheesh

enda1 wrote: »

All NI born people have the right to Irish citizenship. This country recognises them even if they don't want citizenship from us. And there is no way of knowing if they actually have Irish citizenship or not. So its really a moot point that you're making.

Are you suggesting that all the people from the loyalist protests in northern ireland are in fact republic of ireland citizens.

I know that these people have the right to be citizens of the irish republic that does not make them Irish citizens.

my point about UK citizens coming here to protest here about the actions of their own government is valid I think.

nemesisdg

enda1 wrote: »

All NI born people have the right to Irish citizenship. This country recognises them even if they don't want citizenship from us. And there is no way of knowing if they actually have Irish citizenship or not. So its really a moot point that you're making.

I'm not sure I agree Enda1. I think the point is that even if these people have a right to Irish citizenship they certainly don't want it. That much is clear. They have chosen who they wish to govern them. Power sharing is in place in Northern Ireland and they really do need to try and get used to it. After all the pain and death in the previous decades isnt moving on what most people have decided to do? Embrace change for the better.

Flying a flag for both powers in a power sharing government would seem to be very logical and fair.

The argument of travelling to Ireland to ask us take down our flag because that's what they see us as asking them to do is illogical. Its there own government that has made the decision, jointly.

I'm not sure but is the tricolour being flown on the days the Union Jack isn't up?

maximoose

nemesisdg wrote: »

I'm not sure but is the tricolour being flown on the days the Union Jack isn't up?

No, they'd be absolutely wrecking the place if it was.

donaghs

Anyone serious about a united Ireland should let them peacefully protest and express their point of view.

I personally will be staying well away as the odds of rioting and opportunistic looting/punch-ups are very high.

Hopefully there won't be any trouble.

I think it is grand that these guys feel comfortable coming to the south and protesting.

Maybe protesting down here reflects that they think we have a legitimate interest in the north and vice versa.

JustinDee

donaghs wrote: »

Anyone serious about a united Ireland should let them peacefully protest and express their point of view

Unfortunately, there aren't enough mature folk of that ilk for this to happen.
I'd say there will be trouble. Maybe not with idiot factions face-to-face, but on both sides of an heavy police cordon.
Sometimes this island just shamefully depresses the hell out of itself. On one side we've republicans saying forget the past 40 or so years but remember 800 years blah blah blah, then on the other, we've the same but from a different tribal stance.
Its as if these people actually miss the grey, bitter, vacuous sh*thole the island of Ireland was, no thanks to a sick few. Shame on anyone who supports them and if they're parents teaching their myopic viewpoint to their kids, doubly so.

enda1

nemesisdg wrote: »

I'm not sure I agree Enda1. I think the point is that even if these people have a right to Irish citizenship they certainly don't want it. That much is clear. They have chosen who they wish to govern them. Power sharing is in place in Northern Ireland and they really do need to try and get used to it. After all the pain and death in the previous decades isnt moving on what most people have decided to do? Embrace change for the better.

Flying a flag for both powers in a power sharing government would seem to be very logical and fair.

The argument of travelling to Ireland to ask us take down our flag because that's what they see us as asking them to do is illogical. Its there own government that has made the decision, jointly.

I'm not sure but is the tricolour being flown on the days the Union Jack isn't up?

Lots of protests are illogical, doesn't mean people shouldn't have the right to protest. Citizenship and governship (sp?) are not entirely related. There are plenty of foreign nationals living in Ireland who are governed by our government, and plenty of citizens living abroad who are not.

There's not really much point in complaining about the subject of the protest really, more interesting is the right to protest for them. But I feel that they do have a right as laid down by the GFA and our constitution. I'm also sure that there are loyalists who are actually Irish citizens from an earlier time in their lives, and ones who are dual nationals whose "loyalty" is still to the UK.

All in all, let them at it and ignore if you so wish.

johnnyskeleton

hatrickpatrick wrote: »

Pre-emptively stifling free speech because of a hypothetical scenario of what consequences might happen is a very big step on the slippery slope to oppression...

Well, they are deliberately trying to bring the Belfast riots down to dublin so even if it is hypothetical as to whether there will be violence, that is certainly their intention.

Perhaps if they were to provide an undertaking as to damages for local businesses that would be a good compromise.

On a more academic level, demanding the partial removal of the national flag from the national parliament could be considered sedition.