Ireland Team Talk/Gossip/Rumour Thread II

wicklowwonder

P.Walnuts wrote: »

Aw like I dont mean picking 15 22-23 yr olds for 4 years but every little helps....

I just get frustrated when we are going into another 6N with pinning our hopes on D'arcy-BOD, when both are possibly in their last international season and we don't really have an replacements in line that have any real international experience.

Earls yes, but long term he hasn't shown so far that he can be our long term 13

But what players have put up their hands to be picked? Marshall can't get ahead of Paddy Wallace, McFadden can't get ahead of Darcy, Munster have Downey who isn't exactly young and I don't think is good enough. Cave maybe worth a look but we don't exactly have a lot of options. If the players are not playing on the Heineken Cup 15 for their province they don't deserve Ireland spot.

P.Walnuts

wicklowwonder wrote: »

But what players have put up their hands to be picked? Marshall can't get ahead of Paddy Wallace, McFadden can't get ahead of Darcy, Munster have Downey who isn't exactly young and I don't think is good enough. Cave maybe worth a look but we don't exactly have a lot of options. If the players are not playing on the Heineken Cup 15 for their province they don't deserve Ireland spot.

Understand that....but

Gilroy?

wicklowwonder

P.Walnuts wrote: »

Understand that....but

Gilroy?

Yeah if he isn't ahead of Trimble I wouldn't pick him thing is with Bowes injury he will play 11 and Trimble 14 I imagine. Going into 6N we will have Kearney, McFadden, Fitzgerald, Zebo, Jones, Trimble and Gilroy all playing week in week out for clubs and hopefully on form, I wouldn't worry about our outside backs when you add Earls to that list as well - I don't think he is a centre. Most of these players will be in their prime for the next RWC. Hopefully Luke Fitz will be wearing a 13 shirt....

Podge_irl

P.Walnuts wrote: »

I just get frustrated when we are going into another 6N with pinning our hopes on D'arcy-BOD, when both are possibly in their last international season and we don't really have an replacements in line that have any real international experience.

I have an issue when we go into a 6N with D'Arcy when Marshall is arguably playing better. I have an issue going into a 6N with ROG on the bench when Jackson/Madigan/Keatley are playing better. I have an issue with going into a 6N with POM playing when Henry is playing better

Very little of this has to do with age (Henry is older than POM for example). I could not possibly care less about the RWC and despise the focus on it. It all has to do with rewarding players for playing well and putting the best possible team on the field to win games. Unfortunately in Ireland it seems experience trumps everything else - including actually being able to play rugby.

wicklowwonder

Podge_irl wrote: »

I have an issue when we go into a 6N with D'Arcy when Marshall is arguably playing better. I have an issue going into a 6N with ROG on the bench when Jackson/Madigan/Keatley are playing better. I have an issue with going into a 6N with POM playing when Henry is playing better

Very little of this has to do with age (Henry is older than POM for example). I could not possibly care less about the RWC and despise the focus on it. It all has to do with rewarding players for playing well and putting the best possible team on the field to win games. Unfortunately in Ireland it seems experience trumps everything else - including actually being able to play rugby.

Darcy has done well for Leinster week in week out, Marshall can't and I don't think will get ahead of Paddy Wallace who isn't up to international standard, I don't think you can justify picking him. I agree with the other calls though. It comes down to management in my opinion.

Podge_irl

The D'Arcy one is a bit questionable, but I don't think he can regularly deliver on the international stage at this point and I think Marshall possibly can. My point is more that its not that I think Marshall should get game time cause he'll be playing come RWC '15 but more that I think he could be better over the course of 6N '13. That is all that should matter come 6N time.

There is a problem in Ireland with people thinking we need to somehow sacrifice current performance for the sake of future development. Its just not true. I never wanted Sexton in ahead of ROG because he had more potential - I wanted him in cause he was playing better! Keeping players in past when their performances have started to dip on the back of "experience" has hurt Ireland consistently over the last 6/7 years.

Sinbad_NI

Podge_irl wrote: »

I have an issue when we go into a 6N with D'Arcy when Marshall is arguably playing better. I have an issue going into a 6N with ROG on the bench when Jackson/Madigan/Keatley are playing better. I have an issue with going into a 6N with POM playing when Henry is playing better

Very little of this has to do with age (Henry is older than POM for example). I could not possibly care less about the RWC and despise the focus on it. It all has to do with rewarding players for playing well and putting the best possible team on the field to win games. Unfortunately in Ireland it seems experience trumps everything else - including actually being able to play rugby.

Totally agree, been the problem for too long.

irishbucsfan

Another big problem with retaining D'Arcy and BOD together is that they are both going to retire very soon, and possibly at about the same time. That'll leave us having to replace both center spots at the same time which will be messy.

andrewdcs

irishbucsfan wrote: »

Another big problem with retaining D'Arcy and BOD together is that they are both going to retire very soon, and possibly at about the same time. That'll leave us having to replace both center spots at the same time which will be messy.

Would it not be an opportunity to bring in two who play together for club, a la Ulsters centres?

irishbucsfan

andrewdcs wrote: »

Would it not be an opportunity to bring in two who play together for club, a la Ulsters centres?

It'd probably be an easier transition. They'd still be playing in a new team with a new defensive system to what they're used to and also outside new halfbacks. I'd like to see that transition staggered a bit, hopefully the summer tour will give us an opportunity to do that.

totallegend

Is the problem that the coach always picks (and we as fans have come to expect) a single Irish XV that will play every game?

I don't think Marshall, or anyone else, has done remotely enough to displace D'Arcy who is in great form. However, I recognise that D'Arcy is 33 next month and the clock is ticking. So why not send D'Arcy out against Wales and England (rounds 1 & 2), then give Marshall a run against Scotland or Italy?

Ditto BOD, turning 34 in a couple of weeks but still by far and away the best option at 13; does he need to play every single game? Why not give Cave a shot in one or other of the games?

I'm just using BOD and D'Arcy as examples, the logic also applies to Ross, DOC, Reddan or pretty much anyone who won't be around for the 2015 RWC. Yet each of these guys will be in the 23 for all five games. And of course, Mr Above International Standard will continue to rack up caps at an astonishing rate despite being old, crap and having at least three guys playing better in the same position.

The summer tour will be totally meaningless in terms of player development; what did we learn from the 2009 edition? No, we need guys to be getting real game time against real opposition.

I realise that the IRFU regard the Six Nations as the be-all and end-all of international rugby and that Kidney could well be clinging to his job, but we need to get away from the notion that we send out our 'strongest' team for every single game. It's that mentality, which has been in practice for about six years now, that has got us where we are; an ageing team with no clear idea of who the successors are.

irishbucsfan

They won't give Marshall a shot against Italy or Scotland. They have to keep those games free for the return of the Earls/BOD partnership.

Tox56

I think Marshall will play some part in the 6N, we could very conceivably have nothing to play for (silverware wise) by the time we play Italy. If that is the case, and we don't see some experimentation (particularly in the centres), I would be very disappointed.

irishbucsfan

irishbucsfan wrote: »

They won't give Marshall a shot against Italy or Scotland. They have to keep those games free for the return of the Earls/BOD partnership.

or even more scarily, the Sexton / BOD setup.

Timothy Bryce

irishbucsfan wrote: »

They won't give Marshall a shot against Italy or Scotland. They have to keep those games free for the return of the Earls/BOD partnership.

Forgive my ignorance, but, I can't recall seeing a game where Earls has shone playing centre, despite numerous starts/cameos. Great winger, but never a centre.

Sh*t or get off the pot IMO.

snow mad

has there been any indication yet what the make up of the squad wil be, i no kidney can be a bit erratic with how many players are involed for certain possitions.

molloyjh

irishbucsfan wrote: »

They won't give Marshall a shot against Italy or Scotland. They have to keep those games free for the return of the Earls/BOD partnership.

Deleted User wrote: »

or even more scarily, the Sexton / BOD setup.

Shut up both of you...SHUT UP!

Sinbad_NI

Horrific to say that it might take injuries again for new talent to get a look in.

Truly hope that isn't the case but leopards and spots and all that.

snow mad

obviously this is far too many but for the training squad maybe

best strauss cronin
healy court kilcoyne
ross fitzpatrick/buckley bent
ryan mcarthy touhy doc
heaslip o brian henry pom mclaughlan hendreson

murray reddan marshal
sexton jackson madigan
darcy marshal mcfadden mcsharry
bod cave o malley
gilroy zebo trimble earls fitz d kearny
r kearny hensaw

and if you add marrion and toh to that i would be delighted if all these players got some game time between wolfhounds and senior by this time next year

match day 23 for wales

healy best(capt) ross
mcarthy ryan
o brian henry heaslip
murray sexton
bod darcy/marshal
zebo/fitz r kearny gilroy

court bent strauss doc pom/mclaughlin marshal madigan earls/mcfadden

ireland01

How could fitzgerald be in the ireland squad, will he even start for leinster?

snow mad

ireland01 wrote: »

How could fitzgerald be in the ireland squad, will he even start for leinster?

getting a bit ahead of myself there i suppose

Fishooks13

I think if Fitz has a consistent run of games I'd have him in the squad.

ireland01

Whens the last time he played for ireland?

ireland01

ireland01 wrote: »

Whens the last time he played for ireland?

6N 2011.

And was utter muck in a 15 jersey that he should never have been asked to wear.

Teferi

Fishooks13 wrote: »

I think if Fitz has a consistent run of games I'd have him in the squad.

Fitz always seems to need those run of games to find his form again, could be slightly too late for him I think.

bilston

snow mad wrote: »

obviously this is far too many but for the training squad maybe

best strauss cronin
healy court kilcoyne
ross fitzpatrick/buckley bent
ryan mcarthy touhy doc
heaslip o brian henry pom mclaughlan hendreson

murray reddan marshal
sexton jackson madigan
darcy marshal mcfadden mcsharry
bod cave o malley
gilroy zebo trimble earls fitz d kearny
r kearny hensaw

and if you add marrion and toh to that i would be delighted if all these players got some game time between wolfhounds and senior by this time next year

match day 23 for wales

healy best(capt) ross
mcarthy ryan
o brian henry heaslip
murray sexton
bod darcy/marshal
zebo/fitz r kearny gilroy

court bent strauss doc pom/mclaughlin marshal madigan earls/mcfadden

I believe Luke Marshall wasn't selected for the recent training squad because he wasn't starting for Ulster so he can probably be ruled out at this stage...in saying that he's started the last three games for Ulster so maybe that's changed...

irishbucsfan

Mark McCall has signed a contract extension at Sarries. So he won't be managing Ireland in June I'd say.

totallegend

Deleted User wrote: »

6N 2011.

And was utter muck in a 15 jersey that he should never have been asked to wear.

He played in the World Cup warm-ups and was actually OK. The damage was done by that stage however.

CIARAN_BOYLE

Deleted User wrote: »

6N 2011.

And was utter muck in a 15 jersey that he should never have been asked to wear.

2011 RWC warm ups

He had 2 starts and a substitute appearance.

He hasn't been fit during an international window since (maybe the end of the 2012 6 nations but was injured for the first half of it)

snow mad

bilston wrote: »

I believe Luke Marshall wasn't selected for the recent training squad because he wasn't starting for Ulster so he can probably be ruled out at this stage...in saying that he's started the last three games for Ulster so maybe that's changed...

henry or gilroy and a few more players were not there either pom i think as well do you think none of them will be involved