Off topic golf thread!

FixdePitchmark

The lawman.

The exit aspect is him choosing his replacement. They then couldn't sack him.

He was too involved after leaving.

The book was a disgrace. Going on about ex players for a few quid. Players that turned United into a team of a generation.


no point in trying to defend it. A mess. A control freak who went too far at the end.
But still best manger in 25 years.

alxmorgan

FixdePitchmark wrote: »

The lawman.

The exit aspect is him choosing his replacement. They then couldn't sack him.

He was too involved after leaving.

The book was a disgrace. Going on about ex players for a few quid. Players that turned United into a team of a generation.


no point in trying to defend it. A mess. A control freak who went too far at the end.
But still best manger in 25 years.

Big issue with book was timing. Doing a tour of it in Moyes first season. If he had a dodgy start then does he really want Fergie popping up everywhere ? Fergie should have disappeared for a year to let Moyes get on with it.

Having said all that the players are a disgrace. Half of them not trying a leg. As a Liverpool fan I know that once a club loses the fear factor it is hard won back. At least I hope it is in this case

ForeRight

Lads seriously!!!!

Fergies book, Fergie hanging around, Fergie this Fergie that!!!!

Nonsense!

Moyes took over a team that strolled to the title less than 12 months ago. He has spent 70m in his first season on two players. One who is an absolute pile of dirt and the other who is world class but moyes plays him on the ring where he is totally useless.
Moyes has no idea what to do. He has never picked the same side once all season. He looks and acts defeatist. He has no urgency and hasn't been able to adapt to not managing a small club.
Look what Everton have done since he left in their managers first year at the club.

He has been a goner since day one and IMO he never even found the dressing room in order to lose it.

Fair enough he may have been left a little short by Fergie squad wise but he still had enough to mount a proper challenge at 4thspot and CL football.

Instead utds season fizzled out by Xmas.

Good riddance to him.

FixdePitchmark

ForeRight wrote: »

Lads seriously!!!!

Fergies book, Fergie hanging around, Fergie this Fergie that!!!!

Nonsense!

Moyes took over a team that strolled to the title less than 12 months ago. He has spent 70m in his first season on two players. One who is an absolute pile of dirt and the other who is world class but moyes plays him on the ring where he is totally useless.
Moyes has no idea what to do. He has never picked the same side once all season. He looks and acts defeatist. He has no urgency and hasn't been able to adapt to not managing a small club.
Look what Everton have done since he left in their managers first year at the club.

He has been a goner since day one and IMO he never even found the dressing room in order to lose it.

Fair enough he may have been left a little short by Fergie squad wise but he still had enough to mount a proper challenge at 4thspot and CL football.

Instead utds season fizzled out by Xmas.

Good riddance to him.

So are you saying Fergie's retirement plan was perfect - the only reason Moyes stayed on as he did is Ferguson.

Ferguson had a part in this - I think most people know that is the case.

I don't think it is nonsense at all.

The book was a disgrace.

Not only a disgrace - embarrassing that it was so soon after leaving - and he let go any manager / player relationship for the sake of a few quid.

A manager - should not do that - not only in football , in anything.

Roy Keane, for once, was dead right on it.

PARlance

FixdePitchmark wrote: »

So are you saying Fergie's retirement plan was perfect - the only reason Moyes stayed on as he did is Ferguson.

Ferguson had a part in this - I think most people know that is the case.

I don't think it is nonsense at all.

The book was a disgrace.

Not only a disgrace - embarrassing that it was so soon after leaving - and he let go any manager / player relationship for the sake of a few quid.

A manager - should not do that - not only in football , in anything.

Roy Keane, for once, was dead right on it.

I think Forerights post was aimed focusing on Moyes and his inadequacies.

Fergie's actions didn't help but Moyes wasn't up to the job, plain and simple.
To be talking about Fergie at this time only deflects from the weaknesses with Moyes.
Yes Fergie didn't help, but there's a big big list of why he should go regardless of that.

The only question now is: Who is David going to pick as his successor

FixdePitchmark

ForeRight wrote: »

Lads seriously!!!!

Fergies book, Fergie hanging around, Fergie this Fergie that!!!!

Nonsense!
.

No - PARlance - I'm saying above is wrong.

Fergie was totally wrong in all of above.

the lawman

FDP

I think we'll have to disagree on this one and leave it there. Neither of us will change our minds. Golf is a lot more straightforward then goings on at OT at the moment.

ForeRight

What was so disgraceful in the book?


Moyes is plain and simple nowhere near good enough to be a united manager. That's as simple as this is.

alxmorgan

ForeRight wrote: »

What was so disgraceful in the book?


Moyes is plain and simple nowhere near good enough to be a united manager. That's as simple as this is.

The book was self-serving and needless. But this would concern me more....

"It was not widely publicised, lest it fuel the comparisons with Busby’s troubled succession, but Ferguson has maintained an office in the main stand at Old Trafford this season."

FixdePitchmark

Lads we are not going to agree,

Ferguson was one of the best managers ever in the British Game.

But the succession and his own part in it was a disaster.

The timing of his book tour and interviews were awful - his presences at the club , never gave Moyes a chance.

There should be a sort of Omerta in a dressing room - he was only out the door and sold out big time.

Still a great manager - and some the arsehole things he did - is part of what makes him a great manager.

ForeRight

alxmorgan wrote: »

The book was self-serving and needless. But this would concern me more....

"It was not widely publicised, lest it fuel the comparisons with Busby’s troubled succession, but Ferguson has maintained an office in the main stand at Old Trafford this season."

Why would that concern you?

Dalglish maintained a role at Liverpool after his embarressing reign 2 years ago. No big deal.

They are not on thd training ground, in the dressing room and have no input I to team selection of signings.

It's merely keeping a figure head as a club ambassador that's all.

Moyes was a terrible appointment. No proven winners record. Tactically inept in modern day football.

The glaziers and fergie are to blame for the appointment of course but nothing else after that. Moyes was backed with money and support but failed catastrophically himself.

FixdePitchmark

ForeRight wrote: »

Why would that concern you?

Dalglish maintained a role at Liverpool after his embarressing reign 2 years ago. No big deal.

They are not on thd training ground, in the dressing room and have no input I to team selection of signings.

It's merely keeping a figure head as a club ambassador that's all.

Moyes was a terrible appointment. No proven winners record. Tactically inept in modern day football.

The glaziers and fergie are to blame for the appointment of course but nothing else after that. Moyes was backed with money and support but failed catastrophically himself.

Yes but he kept a low profile.

Ferguson was giving bloody book tours.

ForeRight

FixdePitchmark wrote: »

Yes but he kept a low profile.

Ferguson was giving bloody book tours.

Book tours don't buy fellaini or put mata on the wing

FixdePitchmark

ForeRight wrote: »

Book tours don't buy fellaini or put mata on the wing

Lol.

There are 2 parts to this.

But there is no way Ferguson should get a free ride.

But United will be back next year. With a big big manager and big money spent.

ForeRight

FixdePitchmark wrote: »

Lol.

There are 2 parts to this.

But there is no way Ferguson should get a free ride.

But United will be back next year. With a big big manager and big money spent.

Ferguson shoulders responsibility for the appointment.
After that his book or being at games is irrelevant. He didn't interfere at all.

I don't buy into blaming Fergie for moyes terrible performances this season as manager.

ssbob

Do people think that if Mourinho/Guardiola/Van Gaal had been Fergies successors that we'd even be having this conversation. Fergie was only a problem because Moyes wasn't good enough.

As a Utd fan I can say without a doubt I thought this was the worst signing Fergie ever made, I didn't agree with at the time but what sealed it for me was when he sacked the whole back room staff to bring in his own.

Yes we need to rebuild but 4th was achievable with the squad we had. I agree that some of the players are also to blame, but at the end of the day that shows that they did not respect the gaffer.

alxmorgan

ForeRight wrote: »

Book tours don't buy fellaini or put mata on the wing

Moyes was also let down by the club letting their CEO walk at the same time. It's accepted that Woodward was a major issue in lack of signings.

Do I think Moyes was right man ? No
But club bungled it too. And the players should hang their heads in shame.

No replacement was ever going to live up to Ferguson. I think he would have done everyone a favour by taking a year out. That's my opinion.

Daglish was different also in that he was sacked. Hardly the same thing

ForeRight

Even worse so IMO. Sack a manager who is in charge when the clubs name is being dragged through the mud on numerous occasions. The manager who wore Suarez t shirts in post match press conferences at Fulham.... That was cringeworthy.
Spends 35m on Carroll!!!!


Sack him then give him a high level position.

Yeah you're right that's not the same as giving an ambassador role to the outgoing manager who has just won the title again!

Seve OB

Did Daglish not have that high level position before he was made manager? He initially was only filling the managers position

ForeRight

I'm open to correction on this as I'm not 100% but I think Kenny returned to Liverpool when Benitez asked him back as some sort of youth development officer. A few months later Benitez was sacked and Kenny was asked to look for a new manager. He got Hodgeson.
About a year later Roy was sacked and Kenny took over in what was a terrible couple of years on and off the pitch for pool.

The only shining light was signing Suarez but I'm pretty sure that was Roy's signing as it happened at the start of January and was being toured for a while before the window opened. Roy was sacked just as Suarez was signing and Torres went which had Kenny up **** creek and this the bad signing of Carroll.

Again though, I'm not 100% that recalling that totally correct.

When Kenny was then sacked he was given an ambassador role.

alxmorgan

ForeRight wrote: »

Even worse so IMO. Sack a manager who is in charge when the clubs name is being dragged through the mud on numerous occasions. The manager who wore Suarez t shirts in post match press conferences at Fulham.... That was cringeworthy.
Spends 35m on Carroll!!!!


Sack him then give him a high level position.

Yeah you're right that's not the same as giving an ambassador role to the outgoing manager who has just won the title again!

I'm gonna leave it at that. Not getting into a name calling battle. Suffice to say Daglish served Liverpool as a player and manager with distinction and I'm sure would do a good job as an ambassador for the club.

35m on Carroll was of course a mistake but we all make them...Bebe anyone ?

ForeRight

Ok this is getting a little heated and going off on tangents.

Here's another tangent...


Moyes to Newcastle

charlieIRL

ForeRight wrote: »

Ok this is getting a little heated and going off on tangents.

Here's another tangent...


Moyes to Newcastle

ahh will ya go away, they are bad enough with Pardew!!

ForeRight

Van Gal it is for united.

Not sure how I feel about that to be honest.

PARlance

ForeRight wrote: »

Van Gal it is for united.

Not sure how I feel about that to be honest.

Mmmm.... Not blown away by that, but I'm glad Big Sam didn't tap up Fergie. I was too afraid to start thinking tbh.

He'll be man enough for it and will be able to attract a player or two.
If it turns out to be a 2-3 year stop gap till Jose, then I'd be over the moon.

Slicemeister

ForeRight wrote: »

Ok this is getting a little heated and going off on tangents.

Here's another tangent...


Moyes to Newcastle

Or worse still, Spurs!

ForeRight

PARlance wrote: »

Mmmm.... Not blown away by that, but I'm glad Big Sam didn't tap up Fergie. I was too afraid to start thinking tbh.

He'll be man enough for it and will be able to attract a player or two.
If it turns out to be a 2-3 year stop gap till Jose, then I'd be over the moon.

I was hoping at best a nice steady ship for a couple of years until pep finishes his Bayern contract and moves on. Seems to be how he works.

ForeRight

Liverpool must have voodoo dolls.

Yaya and silva out gif city now cech has a dislocated shoulder and terry tweaked his ankle ligaments and unlikely for this Sunday at anfield.

It's their year..... Finally.

Slicemeister

If Pep wins the CL this year I wouldn't rule him out of OT next season. For mega bucks.

ForeRight

Slicemeister wrote: »

If Pep wins the CL this year I wouldn't rule him out of OT next season. For mega bucks.

Can't see it to be honest.
Wouldn't be surprised if mourinho took it though.


It's van gal for now though. 100%