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how many bodies...Eamon Gilmore

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    #32
    COYW
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,930 ✭✭✭COYW


    spank_inferno wrote: »
    I will also guess the Tanaiste deflected the probably legitimate question by once again playing the man instead of the ball.

    Their constant "you can talk... look what you did" mantra gets tiring.

    I watched most of Leaders' questions this morning but I didn't see this bit. SF are trying to take the moral high ground of late during question time, and as bad as things are in this country, we are still well above taking lectures on ethics and morals from the likes of SF. I have no problem with any individual drawing attention to their past. It should be brought up again and again until we, the people of this country, get proper answers. Brushing their past under the carpet might be acceptable in NI, but it is not here.

    My guess is that SF launched into one of their "victim" style rants and Gilmore decided to "fight fire with fire". They rarely ask meaningful questions.

    Gilmore addressed the questions of the other leaders in a reasonably acceptable manner, from what I saw.


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    #33
    seamus
    Registered Users Posts: 68,317 ✭✭✭✭seamus


    newman10 wrote: »
    It is about time this Gov stopped hiding behind the past and gave answers to the questions that are being raised by the opposition
    Isn't that entirely the topic of this thread? The opposition seem more interested in point-scoring and defamation than actually asking any useful questions.


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    #34
    newman10
    Registered Users Posts: 975 ✭✭✭newman10


    Or maybe the Gov are not interested in giving answers


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    #35
    dvpower
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,183 ✭✭✭dvpower


    newman10 wrote: »
    Stupid comment. Irish Gov. has a Social Responsibility to the Irish people which has largely been forgotten over the last few years and this has caused deaths.It is about time this Gov stopped hiding behind the past and gave answers to the questions that are being raised by the opposition
    If you're going to start blaming the Government for the deaths of people because of some perceived mismanagement of the health service etc, shouldn't you also be commending them on saving countless lives by managing the health service at all?


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    #36
    COYW
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,930 ✭✭✭COYW


    newman10 wrote: »
    Or maybe the Gov are not interested in giving answers

    No to be fair, RBB posed a question about Coillte wrapped in a speech about Christmas trees and Gilmore answered it, as best he could. It was difficult to decipher the question, even the Ceann Comhairle was asking him to get to the point.

    Too much waffly nonsense from the opposition.


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    #37
    OCorcrain
    Closed Accounts Posts: 92 ✭✭OCorcrain


    seamus wrote: »
    Isn't that entirely the topic of this thread? The opposition seem more interested in point-scoring and defamation than actually asking any useful questions.

    I am sorry what? Do you even know the meaning of defamation or deflection?

    Deflection: The Tánaiste rather than answering questions put to him and responding to them as his duty as an elected represtative, instead

    Defamation: Says that Sinn Féin are guilty of countless bodies buried across the country, so by that comment he is categorising everyone in Sinn Féin and their supporters as murderers and criminals and as people who condone such things. (also known as point-scoring)

    What opposition party has accused the government of such things? (Awaits reply with bated breath)

    I suggest you go to your local Waterstones or Easons and buy a dictionary.

    I wonder how the Ceann Comhairle responded, did he tell Eamon Gimmemore to retract his statement?
    Probably not as we all know he is an unimpartial spineless cretin, characteristics which contradict the role of a CC.


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    #38
    FTA69
    Registered Users Posts: 9,252 ✭✭✭FTA69


    This comment is ridiculous on two counts. The first being that for years Gilmore (as well as the likes of Rabbitte and Lynch and De Rossa) were for years associated with the Workers' Party who well into the 1990s maintained an armed wing which involved itself in various robberies as well as more than a couple of killings. Considering at one stage the Official IRA's robberies were the chief source of Workers' Party funding it is entirely fair to say that Gilmore's various election and political campaigns over the years were funded off the back of armed clandestine activity. For him then to take the moral highground on the issue of armed political groups in Ireland is hypocrisy in the extreme.

    The second reason why this is ridiculous is because it is simply a stock response to any sort of criticism of his and his government's record. To be honest I don't think he's codding anyone, least of all the Irish people when his reply to an economic question is "you were in the RA". It's the political equivalent of thumbing your nose and sticking out your tongue when forced to answer for your record in power. At the end of the day responses like this are all to predictable. The Labour Party and Gilmore himself made various promises on the issue of college fees, child benefit, prescription charges and property taxes. He then proceded to break them all. And now he gets pulled up on it he brings up the political conflict in Ireland.

    In other words he's an utter chancer with no actual response other than to rant on about Gerry Adams being in the IRA or whatever. (Big news.)


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    #39
    golfball37
    Registered Users Posts: 4,525 ✭✭✭golfball37


    COYW wrote: »
    I watched most of Leaders' questions this morning but didn't see this bit. SF are trying to take the moral high ground of late during question time, and as bad as things are in this country, we are still well above taking lectures on ethics and morals from the likes of SF. I have no problem with any individual drawing attention to their past. It should be brought up again and again until we, the people of this country, get proper answers. Brushing their past under the carpet might be acceptable in NI, but it is not here.

    My guess is that SF launched into one of their "victim" style rants and Gilmore decided to "fight fire with fire". They rarely ask meaningful questions.

    Gilmore addressed the questions of the other leaders in a reasonably acceptable manner, from what I saw.

    So 14% of the electorate have no rights is really what your saying.
    You should never use "is my guess" when trying to justify something pathetic either.


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    #40
    seamus
    Registered Users Posts: 68,317 ✭✭✭✭seamus


    OCorcrain wrote: »
    I am sorry what? Do you even know the meaning of defamation or deflection?
    When did I use the word "deflection"? The defamation I'm referring to is SF's accusations of corrupt politics. I never said the Gilmore's statement couldn't equally be construed as defamation.

    I would suggest you go buy yourself a pair of glasses, you seem to have some difficulty reading what's been written.


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    #41
    OCorcrain
    Closed Accounts Posts: 92 ✭✭OCorcrain


    dvpower wrote: »
    shouldn't you also be commending them on saving countless lives by managing the health service at all?

    1. Why give them credit for a job they are SUPPOSED to do. (and failing miserably at)

    2. To give them credit for the jobs frontline health staff do in saving people's lives is pathetic and stupid.

    3. I doubt most of the government have knowledge in first aid let alone how they wipe their backsides in the morning.


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    #42
    LordSutch
    Closed Accounts Posts: 12,078 ✭✭✭✭LordSutch


    COYW wrote: »
    I watched most of Leaders' questions this morning but I didn't see this bit. SF are trying to take the moral high ground of late during question time, and as bad as things are in this country, we are still well above taking lectures on ethics and morals from the likes of SF. I have no problem with any individual drawing attention to their past. It should be brought up again and again until we, the people of this country, get proper answers. Brushing their past under the carpet might be acceptable in NI, but it is not here.

    My guess is that SF launched into one of their "victim" style rants and Gilmore decided to "fight fire with fire". They rarely ask meaningful questions. Gilmore addressed the questions of the other leaders in a reasonably acceptable manner, from what I saw.

    Well said.


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    #43
    FTA69
    Registered Users Posts: 9,252 ✭✭✭FTA69


    COYW wrote: »
    I have no problem with any individual drawing attention to their past. It should be brought up again and again until we, the people of this country, get proper answers. Brushing their past under the carpet might be acceptable in NI, but it is not here.

    And Gimore and Rabbitte's past with the Official IRA? Do you think they'll be disclosing the fact that since the 1970s they have funded their various political activities with money that was gained through robbing banks? Do you think they have any right to comment on armed groups considering the above? They do in their arse.


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    #44
    newman10
    Registered Users Posts: 975 ✭✭✭newman10


    dvpower wrote: »
    If you're going to start blaming the Government for the deaths of people because of some perceived mismanagement of the health service etc, shouldn't you also be commending them on saving countless lives by managing the health service at all?

    I will say that they save lives, that is the duty of any healthcare system but have Sinn Fein saved lives by becoming part of the political system both north and south.

    Remember the HSE havs been found guilty of neglect of children in its care :mad:

    Who is responsible for that


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    #45
    newman10
    Registered Users Posts: 975 ✭✭✭newman10


    FTA69 wrote: »
    And Gimore and Rabbitte's past with the Official IRA? Do you think they'll be disclosing the fact that since the 1970s they have funded their various political activities with money that was gained through robbing banks? Do you think they have any right to comment on armed groups considering the above? They do in their arse.

    or printing money !!! Wouldn't Sean Garland have a story to tell


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    #46
    OCorcrain
    Closed Accounts Posts: 92 ✭✭OCorcrain


    seamus wrote: »
    When did I use the word "deflection"? The defamation I'm referring to is SF's accusations of corrupt politics. I never said the Gilmore's statement couldn't equally be construed as defamation.

    I would suggest you go buy yourself a pair of glasses, you seem to have some difficulty reading what's been written.

    The reason I mentioned deflection my dear fellow is because judging by your failure to address this obvious and contempible attempt by Gilmore to use the Troubles as a 'political football' to deflect the question put to him, I assumed you did not know the meaning of the word as you made a skewed attempt to criticize the opposition instead.

    (Now that I mention that maybe you are familiar with the term 'deflection', my apologies :pac:)


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    #47
    GRMA
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,417 ✭✭✭GRMA


    newman10 wrote: »
    or printing money !!! Wouldn't Sean Garland have a story to tell

    Super doller Garland as they call him.


    Did a job in making sure he wasn't extradited.


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    #48
    Shea O'Meara
    Closed Accounts Posts: 960 ✭✭✭Shea O'Meara


    What Gilmore said is an afront to every Irish person.
    Why? He's using the troubles and the IRA etc. as a swipe at Sinn Fein...do I give a **** about their ego? No.
    It's the fact that Gilmore was called on a valid present day political issue, that being his party's backing of a crooked self serving politician, (Reilly) and he used an old FFail trick to try blur the issue and deflect.
    A disgrace to the people he claims to represent.


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    #49
    seamus
    Registered Users Posts: 68,317 ✭✭✭✭seamus


    OCorcrain wrote: »
    the question put to him
    What question? What did Mary-Lou ask him?


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    #50
    FTA69
    Registered Users Posts: 9,252 ✭✭✭FTA69


    newman10 wrote: »
    or printing money !!! Wouldn't Sean Garland have a story to tell

    Or Kathleen Lynch's husband and other Sticks (also an influential Labour Party member in Cork) gunning down Larry White in Gurranabraher. You couldn't make it up like.


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    #51
    flutered
    Registered Users Posts: 6,668 ✭✭✭flutered


    newman10 wrote: »
    Stupid comment. Irish Gov. has a Social Responsibility to the Irish people which has largely been forgotten over the last few years and this has caused deaths.

    four homless people have died in ireland this year, the goverment has to take some responsibility for this, just as much as they have accepted responsibility for anglos debt.


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    #52
    OneIdea
    Closed Accounts Posts: 249 ✭✭OneIdea


    seamus wrote: »
    What question? What did Mary-Lou ask him?

    Watch from 18 minutes http://www.rte.ie/player/ie/show/10096998/ Remark is said at 28 minutes


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    #53
    seamus
    Registered Users Posts: 68,317 ✭✭✭✭seamus


    Any chance it can be transcribed? Easier to read than watch.


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    #54
    southsiderosie
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,565 ✭✭✭southsiderosie


    MOD NOTE:

    Please dial down on the sniping and personal comments. Also, as a reminder, per the charter:
    This is a Politics forum, not Liveline.

    Certain standards of debate are expected, and will be enforced. Your posts must contribute to debate, not derail it or drag it into mob chanting.


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    #55
    COYW
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,930 ✭✭✭COYW


    OCorcrain wrote: »
    I am sorry what? Do you even know the meaning of defamation or deflection?

    I suggest you go to your local Waterstones or Easons and buy a dictionary.

    I wonder how the Ceann Comhairle responded, did he tell Eamon Gimmemore to retract his statement?

    I suggest you take some time to review the role of the Ceann Comhairle. It is up to the deputy to retract any statement made.

    Also, this is the Politics forum. Petty childish name calling does not belong here.


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    #56
    COYW
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,930 ✭✭✭COYW


    Shea O'Meara wrote: »
    It's the fact that Gilmore was called on a valid present day political issue

    The family members of those missing people have no grave to visit this Christmas where they can see their loved one rest in peace. As they sit down to eat their Christmas dinner, their thoughts will turn to their relative/s without doubt, in remembrance. So they will view E. Gilmore's point as a present day political issue and always will do until answers are found.


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    #57
    OCorcrain
    Closed Accounts Posts: 92 ✭✭OCorcrain


    COYW wrote: »
    I suggest you take some time to review the role of the Ceann Comhairle. It is up to the deputy to retract any statement made.

    On the contrary it seems you need to read up the role of the CC. The CC has the authority to censure, demand a retraction amongst their other responsibilities, just because they did not include all the duties on the Oireachtas website or Wikipedia (we all know how reliable that is...) does not mean it is part of their role.

    Remember Pat Rabbite's childish display?

    http://www.breakingnews.ie/ireland/ceann-comhairle-decides-not-to-censure-rabbitte-150650.html
    COYW wrote: »
    Also, this is the Politics forum. Petty childish name calling does not belong here.

    Oh I'm sorry..did I insult your glorious overlord? If you come on to the politics forum and get upset or sensitive over criticisms or word-play than you do not belong here.


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    #58
    seamus
    Registered Users Posts: 68,317 ✭✭✭✭seamus


    Got a chance to look at the video there.

    McDonald had a chance to make a proper challenge to the Tainiste's response, but instead she resorted to asking a loaded question, effectively asking, "What are you going to about the corruption in Fine Gael?". Which is up there with, "When did you stop beating your wife?".

    Gilmore could have risen above it, but he lost the rag a bit.

    All a bit childish really.

    McDonald could very easily have pushed the issue and asked a very good and valid question - why did Minister Reilly claim to have no hand in selecting the site, when the site itself was mentioned in his brief for that meeting in April - but instead she went for petty mud-slinging.


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    #59
    OCorcrain
    Closed Accounts Posts: 92 ✭✭OCorcrain


    COYW wrote: »
    The family members of those missing people have no grave to visit this Christmas where they can see their loved one rest in peace. As they sit down to eat their Christmas dinner, their thoughts will turn to their relative/s without doubt, in remembrance. So they will view E. Gilmore's point as a present day political issue and always will do until answers are found.

    I know people who have taken their lives because of the oppressive fiscal policies that Labour have supported and implemented, they will not be able to sit down at Christmas with their families, but I would I use the rise in suicide statistics to bash Labour in a non-related discussion? The answer is no

    The families who have suffered during the Troubles would be appalled, disgusted and infuriated by Gilmore's selfish and despicable use of the Troubles for his own gain.

    So you think it is fully within Gilmore's right to use the Troubles as a political football as means of dodging questions put to him?

    Interesting that you have completely ignored Gilmore's position with the Workers Party of Ireland/ Official IRA. What is your position on that?


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    #60
    OCorcrain
    Closed Accounts Posts: 92 ✭✭OCorcrain


    seamus wrote: »
    Got a chance to look at the video there.
    McDonald had a chance to make a proper challenge to the Tainiste's response, but instead she resorted to asking a loaded question, effectively asking,"What are you going to about the corruption in Fine Gael"
    Labour in their manifesto pledged to end cronyism and corruption in Irish politics, now they perpetuate it. She was well within her right to put forward that question as they are completely contradicting what they pledged to do.
    seamus wrote: »
    McDonald had a chance to make a proper challenge to the Tainiste's response, but instead she resorted to asking a loaded question, effectively asking, "What are you going to about the corruption in Fine Gael?". Which is up there with, "When did you stop beating your wife?".
    I cannot believe what I just read, I know people who have suffered from domestic abuse and for you to just throw something like that around as a disgusting comparison is abhorrent and moronic.

    You should be ashamed of yourself.


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    #61
    Shea O'Meara
    Closed Accounts Posts: 960 ✭✭✭Shea O'Meara


    COYW wrote: »
    The family members of those missing people have no grave to visit this Christmas where they can see their loved one rest in peace. As they sit down to eat their Christmas dinner, their thoughts will turn to their relative/s without doubt, in remembrance. So they will view E. Gilmore's point as a present day political issue and always will do until answers are found.

    You're buying into the smoke and mirrors. The issue is valid, but should Gilmore answer every question with same? Do we not deserve straight on topic talk? Do the people who legally and democratically voted for Sinn Fein not deserve representation?
    An elected opposition politician asked a government TD a valid question and got thrown a red herring.


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