how many bodies...Eamon Gilmore

OneIdea

Moments ago on RTE Live - Leaders Questions

QUOTING: Minister Eamon Gilmore

...how many bodies are buried on this island because of Sinn Fein ...

What an awful stupid thing to say Live on TV...

EDIT: Its in relation to this post(10) further down this page.

Watch from 18 minutes http://www.rte.ie/player/ie/show/10096998/ Remark is said at 28 minutes

super_furry

It's a valid question. Their armed wing buried so many that they forgot where they left the disappeared.

Manach

It would depend on the context. Unless it was based on historical matters concerning the Troubles, then this would be a case of playing the man, and not the ball.

OneIdea

As an electorate representative to the Country as too are Sinn Fein members of the dail... He's showing no decorum as to how a government should be run. I have no political views on either party, but I sure hope Deputy Mary McDonald gets an apology.

The remark was two her from an angry Eamon Gilmore, I'm almost certain that this will make the news today.

hinault

What about the Official Sinn Fein / Stickie murder victims, Mr Gimmemore?

super_furry

I love this whole Sinn Fein double think where everyone is just expected to forget the atrocities their armed wing were carrying out under the same leadership in the living memory of nearly all voters. Its the same up the North, where they hold power and are enacting many of the same decisions that they're slating the government down here for.

maccored

super_furry wrote: »

Its the same up the North, where they hold power and are enacting many of the same decisions that they're slating the government down here for.

Such as? Things they have actual control over now, not finance or financial cuts since thats ruled by westminster.

golfball37

I'd venture to say Gilmore is repsonsible for more deaths than ML McDonald if we're keeping score.

Winty

golfball37 wrote: »

I'd venture to say Gilmore is repsonsible for more deaths than ML McDonald if we're keeping score.

Any example of Gilmores killing spree?

OneIdea

Its in the news already... http://www.independent.ie/national-news/how-many-bodies-are-buried-on-this-island-because-of-sinn-fein-gilmore-taunts-mcdonald-in-dail-spat-3332746.html

‘How many bodies are buried on this island because of Sinn Fein?’ – Gilmore taunts McDonald in Dail spat

TANAISTE Eamon Gilmore has launched his most stinging attack to date on Sinn Fein, declaring: "How many bodies are buried on this island because of Sinn Fein."

Mr Gilmore was responding to Sinn Fein deputy leader Mary-Lou McDonald’s allegations of “sharp corrupt practice” by Health Minister Dr James Reilly.

Ms McDonald claimed documents obtained under the Freedom of Information Act showed Dr Reilly spoke with NAMA about a site in his constituency regarding the location for a controversial primary care centre.

She claimed this amounted to ministerial interference in site selection and said to Mr Gilmore it was “sharp corrupt practice that cost you a junior minister” – a reference to the resignation of former Labour Party junior minister Roisin Shortall.

But Mr Gilmore said McDonald had “some neck”.

“So much illegal activity. How many bodies are buried on this island because of Sinn Fein. You have a neck. You have a neck,” he said.

“You come in here with your orders from Belfast to make allegations,” he added.

Mr Gilmore said the Health Minister had challenged Ms McDonald to “say outside of this House what you have said here”.

“This is a clever little trick,” he said.

“Swinging around political allegations – you are sinking to a new low now,” he added.

- Fionnan Sheahan

seamus

He's right though. This is a new tactic being carried out by the socialist right - absuing Dail privilege to start slinging around defamatory statements and accusations.

The purpose of the Dail privilege is to allow TDs to speak openly and honestly without fear of legal reproach. It's purpose was never to allow for unrestrained mud-slinging.

You could argue that he should rise above it and not resort to the same tactics, but we know from history past that simply ignoring mud-slinging attacks doesn't clean the mud away and is usually seen as a tacit admission that the allegations are true.

R P McMurphy

seamus wrote: »

He's right though. This is a new tactic being carried out by the socialist right - absuing Dail privilege to start slinging around defamatory statements and accusations.

The purpose of the Dail privilege is to allow TDs to speak openly and honestly without fear of legal reproach. It's purpose was never to allow for unrestrained mud-slinging.

You could argue that he should rise above it and not resort to the same tactics, but we know from history past that simply ignoring mud-slinging attacks doesn't clean the mud away and is usually seen as a tacit admission that the allegations are true.

It is pretty poor practice and an easy way to avoid answering or commenting upon topical questions. He should respond to the question and then maybe enter a parliamentary question to address other issues he may want to ask Sinn Fein.

Debator

seamus wrote: »

He's right though. This is a new tactic being carried out by the socialist right...

I stopped reading there. An oxymoron if I ever saw one.
What's next - the evil Communist Nazi Jews?

spank_inferno

I havent seen the clip yet.
I will hazard a guess though that the Tanaiste has asked a question he would rather not answer.

I will guess the SF question had something to do with Labours poor performance in government and/or cutting of respite care grants.

I will also guess the Tanaiste deflected the probably legitimate question by once again playing the man instead of the ball.


I'm as pretty anti SF as one can get however I'm tired of both Kinny & Gilmore's behaviour when faced with questions from elected Dail members.
Their constant "you can talk... look what you did" mantra gets tiring.

seamus

Debator wrote: »

I stopped reading there. An oxymoron if I ever saw one.
What's next - the evil Communist Nazi Jews?

Haha, slip of the fingers. I rarely even use the word "right", I meant to just say "socialists".

Fromthetrees

It's the kind of rubbish remark I've become accustomed to from a rubbish government. Why did he say it to McDonald anyway, I'd say she listens to the odd Ra song and that's about it, wait for Gerry or Ferris who led a past life in the shade.

Reilly doing stroke politics has nothing to do with the Sinn Fein body count, the country is crumbing and we get our Tanaiste rambling about this.

Godge

R P McMurphy wrote: »

It is pretty poor practice and an easy way to avoid answering or commenting upon topical questions. He should respond to the question and then maybe enter a parliamentary question to address other issues he may want to ask Sinn Fein.

Eh, under which Oireachtas rules do Sinn Fein have to answer parliamentary questions?

OCorcrain

You know that when Enda Kenny and Eamon Gilmore start mud-slinging these defamatory comments instead of addressing the question put to them it shows they have no-leg to stand on.
People are wising up to that and are sick of hearing this constant flow of sh*t from these so called statesmen in Labour and FG.

Gilmore was in the Workers Party of Ireland the political wing of the Official IRA, but we all know he is a hypocrit and a self-serving crook anyway.

newman10

Winty wrote: »

Any example of Gilmores killing spree?

Have this and the last Government been responsible for deaths due to Health Cuts, and any other actions caused by State Bodies (Banks) etc. or the inaction of others (HSE)

A silent killing spree !!

Drumpot

This is one of the many idiotic things about Irish electorate . .

Our government is asked a question from an elected opposition party . . A question that many people would like to hear answered and instead of answering it, he rants off about something completely irrelevant to the topic.

Its insulting to the Irish people, even the ones who dont realise it. I have never voted Sinn Fein and have no intentions of doing so anytime soon, but our government has decided that it should not be answerable to one of the biggest elected opposition in the country . . Sinn Fein has a right to ask questions and get respectable answers and I would expect prefer a more responsible responses from our government that shows a little respect for the people who voted for a democratically elected party. .

Its simply pathetic . . Shame on Gilemore for showing such little class and shame on anybody for thinking it was anything other then a tactic government used to avoid the topic. Something FF were very fond and good at doing . .

Floppybits

I am sick to death of this crap that the government keep coming out with every time they are asked a difficult question. It just goes to show how incapable these people are at running the country if they cannot answer questions from other democratically elected members of the Dail.

It is a sad sorry state for the country.

seamus

newman10 wrote: »

Have this and the last Government been responsible for deaths due to Health Cuts, and any other actions caused by State Bodies (Banks) etc. or the inaction of others (HSE)

A silent killing spree !!

No more than you're responsible for the deaths of poor children because you buy clothing made in sweatshops.

Sir Digby Chicken Caesar

seamus wrote: »

No more than you're responsible for the deaths of poor children because you buy clothing made in sweatshops.

he's actually helping to prevent them because he buys clothes made in sweatshops, or at the very least keeping them away from drugs, begging or prostitution.

GRMA

Sure weren't loads of Gilmore's mates in the OIRA and he himself in their political wing? They killed their fair share of people.

You also have ex IRA members including people jailed for running IRA training camps in Labour.

He has some neck himself.


Its pathetic, bringing up stuff like that just to deflect. He doesnt care about any victims he just uses them to shield himself in unrelated debates.

For years people wanted republicans to go down he political route. Now they have what they want, its stupid bashing Mary Lou or Pearse or whoever over things they had nothing to do with

flutered

is this not common practice from the goverment benches, did not kenny say something to gerry adams re jean mc conville rather answer a question recently, this week did not a homless man die in bray from the cold and malntrition, looking at the goverment front bench there are a few very very overweight people.

Stheno

From the Irish Times

Minister for Health James Reilly has challenged Sinn Féin deputy leader Mary Lou McDonald to repeat allegations of corruption against him outside the House.

Ms McDonald claimed in the Dáil today that Dr Reilly had engaged in "sharp, corrupt practices" in the inclusion of a site in Balbriggan, in his Dublin North constituency, on the list of proposed primary healthcare centres.

She claimed that information supplied, following a Freedom of Information (FOI) request, showed that "considerable financial advantage" had been conferred on the owner and the developer involved.

Dr Reilly intervened from the Government benches to challenge Ms McDonald to make the allegations outside the House without the protection of Dáil privilege.

Amid heated exchanges, Tánaiste Eamon Gilmore said Ms McDonald was trawling over material previously discussed.

"You have a neck," said Mr Gilmore. "Sinn Féin...you know, so much illegal activity. How many bodies are buried on this island because of Sinn Féin?"

So SF accuse JOR of corruption and sharp practice, and Gilmore rants back at them

listermint

seamus wrote: »

He's right though. This is a new tactic being carried out by the socialist right - absuing Dail privilege to start slinging around defamatory statements and accusations.

The purpose of the Dail privilege is to allow TDs to speak openly and honestly without fear of legal reproach. It's purpose was never to allow for unrestrained mud-slinging.

You could argue that he should rise above it and not resort to the same tactics, but we know from history past that simply ignoring mud-slinging attacks doesn't clean the mud away and is usually seen as a tacit admission that the allegations are true.

What is mud slinging when the facts are clear there has to be a major cause for concern when the minister for health is involved in discussions with NAMA on a site that he has a personal concern in.

In another thread you claimed to be apolitcal, when its quite clear that you hold great sympathy with the government when they are actually challenged on questions that I personally want answered. Regardless of whom asks the question in the first place.

Dodging the question with mud slings is a labour and fine gael tactic of late and i dont like it one bit.

granturismo

Debator wrote: »

I stopped reading there. An oxymoron if I ever saw one.
What's next - the evil Communist Nazi Jews?

National Socialism wasnt even on the left side of the spectrum. So socialist and right are not mutually exclusive.

seamus

listermint wrote: »

In another thread you claimed to be apolitcal, when its quite clear that you hold great sympathy with the government when they are actually challenged on questions that I personally want answered. Regardless of whom asks the question in the first place.

There was no question asked, as far as I can tell. An allegation was made of sharp corrupt politics. If it's a question, it's at best rhetorical because he's hardly going to turn around and say, "You're right; it was corrupt".

Correct me if I'm wrong, maybe she did actually ask a question.

Reilly's involvement in changing this list of centres is definitely something I'd be interested in knowing about. But he's already given a simplistic answer. The opposition need to start asking more detailed questions instead of the same ones over and over.

flutered

it will be fun when gilmore is asked about his association with sean garland and cathal brough, plus a few others, like the people who were caught running a training camp, which was not definitley in f.a.s.s remit, gilmore and rabbit seem to be digging a mighty fine hole for themselves.

newman10

seamus wrote: »

No more than you're responsible for the deaths of poor children because you buy clothing made in sweatshops.

Stupid comment. Irish Gov. has a Social Responsibility to the Irish people which has largely been forgotten over the last few years and this has caused deaths.It is about time this Gov stopped hiding behind the past and gave answers to the questions that are being raised by the opposition

COYW

spank_inferno wrote: »

I will also guess the Tanaiste deflected the probably legitimate question by once again playing the man instead of the ball.

Their constant "you can talk... look what you did" mantra gets tiring.

I watched most of Leaders' questions this morning but I didn't see this bit. SF are trying to take the moral high ground of late during question time, and as bad as things are in this country, we are still well above taking lectures on ethics and morals from the likes of SF. I have no problem with any individual drawing attention to their past. It should be brought up again and again until we, the people of this country, get proper answers. Brushing their past under the carpet might be acceptable in NI, but it is not here.

My guess is that SF launched into one of their "victim" style rants and Gilmore decided to "fight fire with fire". They rarely ask meaningful questions.

Gilmore addressed the questions of the other leaders in a reasonably acceptable manner, from what I saw.

seamus

newman10 wrote: »

It is about time this Gov stopped hiding behind the past and gave answers to the questions that are being raised by the opposition

Isn't that entirely the topic of this thread? The opposition seem more interested in point-scoring and defamation than actually asking any useful questions.

newman10

Or maybe the Gov are not interested in giving answers

dvpower

newman10 wrote: »

Stupid comment. Irish Gov. has a Social Responsibility to the Irish people which has largely been forgotten over the last few years and this has caused deaths.It is about time this Gov stopped hiding behind the past and gave answers to the questions that are being raised by the opposition

If you're going to start blaming the Government for the deaths of people because of some perceived mismanagement of the health service etc, shouldn't you also be commending them on saving countless lives by managing the health service at all?

COYW

newman10 wrote: »

Or maybe the Gov are not interested in giving answers

No to be fair, RBB posed a question about Coillte wrapped in a speech about Christmas trees and Gilmore answered it, as best he could. It was difficult to decipher the question, even the Ceann Comhairle was asking him to get to the point.

Too much waffly nonsense from the opposition.

OCorcrain

seamus wrote: »

Isn't that entirely the topic of this thread? The opposition seem more interested in point-scoring and defamation than actually asking any useful questions.

I am sorry what? Do you even know the meaning of defamation or deflection?

Deflection: The Tánaiste rather than answering questions put to him and responding to them as his duty as an elected represtative, instead

Defamation: Says that Sinn Féin are guilty of countless bodies buried across the country, so by that comment he is categorising everyone in Sinn Féin and their supporters as murderers and criminals and as people who condone such things. (also known as point-scoring)

What opposition party has accused the government of such things? (Awaits reply with bated breath)

I suggest you go to your local Waterstones or Easons and buy a dictionary.

I wonder how the Ceann Comhairle responded, did he tell Eamon Gimmemore to retract his statement?
Probably not as we all know he is an unimpartial spineless cretin, characteristics which contradict the role of a CC.

FTA69

This comment is ridiculous on two counts. The first being that for years Gilmore (as well as the likes of Rabbitte and Lynch and De Rossa) were for years associated with the Workers' Party who well into the 1990s maintained an armed wing which involved itself in various robberies as well as more than a couple of killings. Considering at one stage the Official IRA's robberies were the chief source of Workers' Party funding it is entirely fair to say that Gilmore's various election and political campaigns over the years were funded off the back of armed clandestine activity. For him then to take the moral highground on the issue of armed political groups in Ireland is hypocrisy in the extreme.

The second reason why this is ridiculous is because it is simply a stock response to any sort of criticism of his and his government's record. To be honest I don't think he's codding anyone, least of all the Irish people when his reply to an economic question is "you were in the RA". It's the political equivalent of thumbing your nose and sticking out your tongue when forced to answer for your record in power. At the end of the day responses like this are all to predictable. The Labour Party and Gilmore himself made various promises on the issue of college fees, child benefit, prescription charges and property taxes. He then proceded to break them all. And now he gets pulled up on it he brings up the political conflict in Ireland.

In other words he's an utter chancer with no actual response other than to rant on about Gerry Adams being in the IRA or whatever. (Big news.)

golfball37

COYW wrote: »

I watched most of Leaders' questions this morning but didn't see this bit. SF are trying to take the moral high ground of late during question time, and as bad as things are in this country, we are still well above taking lectures on ethics and morals from the likes of SF. I have no problem with any individual drawing attention to their past. It should be brought up again and again until we, the people of this country, get proper answers. Brushing their past under the carpet might be acceptable in NI, but it is not here.

My guess is that SF launched into one of their "victim" style rants and Gilmore decided to "fight fire with fire". They rarely ask meaningful questions.

Gilmore addressed the questions of the other leaders in a reasonably acceptable manner, from what I saw.

So 14% of the electorate have no rights is really what your saying.
You should never use "is my guess" when trying to justify something pathetic either.

seamus

OCorcrain wrote: »

I am sorry what? Do you even know the meaning of defamation or deflection?

When did I use the word "deflection"? The defamation I'm referring to is SF's accusations of corrupt politics. I never said the Gilmore's statement couldn't equally be construed as defamation.

I would suggest you go buy yourself a pair of glasses, you seem to have some difficulty reading what's been written.

OCorcrain

dvpower wrote: »

shouldn't you also be commending them on saving countless lives by managing the health service at all?

1. Why give them credit for a job they are SUPPOSED to do. (and failing miserably at)

2. To give them credit for the jobs frontline health staff do in saving people's lives is pathetic and stupid.

3. I doubt most of the government have knowledge in first aid let alone how they wipe their backsides in the morning.

LordSutch

COYW wrote: »

I watched most of Leaders' questions this morning but I didn't see this bit. SF are trying to take the moral high ground of late during question time, and as bad as things are in this country, we are still well above taking lectures on ethics and morals from the likes of SF. I have no problem with any individual drawing attention to their past. It should be brought up again and again until we, the people of this country, get proper answers. Brushing their past under the carpet might be acceptable in NI, but it is not here.

My guess is that SF launched into one of their "victim" style rants and Gilmore decided to "fight fire with fire". They rarely ask meaningful questions. Gilmore addressed the questions of the other leaders in a reasonably acceptable manner, from what I saw.

Well said.

FTA69

COYW wrote: »

I have no problem with any individual drawing attention to their past. It should be brought up again and again until we, the people of this country, get proper answers. Brushing their past under the carpet might be acceptable in NI, but it is not here.

And Gimore and Rabbitte's past with the Official IRA? Do you think they'll be disclosing the fact that since the 1970s they have funded their various political activities with money that was gained through robbing banks? Do you think they have any right to comment on armed groups considering the above? They do in their arse.

newman10

dvpower wrote: »

If you're going to start blaming the Government for the deaths of people because of some perceived mismanagement of the health service etc, shouldn't you also be commending them on saving countless lives by managing the health service at all?

I will say that they save lives, that is the duty of any healthcare system but have Sinn Fein saved lives by becoming part of the political system both north and south.

Remember the HSE havs been found guilty of neglect of children in its care :mad:

Who is responsible for that

newman10

FTA69 wrote: »

And Gimore and Rabbitte's past with the Official IRA? Do you think they'll be disclosing the fact that since the 1970s they have funded their various political activities with money that was gained through robbing banks? Do you think they have any right to comment on armed groups considering the above? They do in their arse.

or printing money !!! Wouldn't Sean Garland have a story to tell

OCorcrain

seamus wrote: »

When did I use the word "deflection"? The defamation I'm referring to is SF's accusations of corrupt politics. I never said the Gilmore's statement couldn't equally be construed as defamation.

I would suggest you go buy yourself a pair of glasses, you seem to have some difficulty reading what's been written.

The reason I mentioned deflection my dear fellow is because judging by your failure to address this obvious and contempible attempt by Gilmore to use the Troubles as a 'political football' to deflect the question put to him, I assumed you did not know the meaning of the word as you made a skewed attempt to criticize the opposition instead.

(Now that I mention that maybe you are familiar with the term 'deflection', my apologies :pac:)

GRMA

newman10 wrote: »

or printing money !!! Wouldn't Sean Garland have a story to tell

Super doller Garland as they call him.


Did a job in making sure he wasn't extradited.

Shea O'Meara

What Gilmore said is an afront to every Irish person.
Why? He's using the troubles and the IRA etc. as a swipe at Sinn Fein...do I give a **** about their ego? No.
It's the fact that Gilmore was called on a valid present day political issue, that being his party's backing of a crooked self serving politician, (Reilly) and he used an old FFail trick to try blur the issue and deflect.
A disgrace to the people he claims to represent.

seamus

OCorcrain wrote: »

the question put to him

What question? What did Mary-Lou ask him?

FTA69

newman10 wrote: »

or printing money !!! Wouldn't Sean Garland have a story to tell

Or Kathleen Lynch's husband and other Sticks (also an influential Labour Party member in Cork) gunning down Larry White in Gurranabraher. You couldn't make it up like.

flutered

newman10 wrote: »

Stupid comment. Irish Gov. has a Social Responsibility to the Irish people which has largely been forgotten over the last few years and this has caused deaths.

four homless people have died in ireland this year, the goverment has to take some responsibility for this, just as much as they have accepted responsibility for anglos debt.