TV Licence {MEGAMERGE}

28064212

Skinnykenyan wrote: »

http://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/consumer_affairs/media/tv_licence.html

under the section where it says digital switchover it clearly states an analogue tv with or without a tv licence still requires a tv licence. Forgive me for my lack of info im on my phone which is a heap of poo. It dosnt allow me to copy and paste stuff.

Given that they're blatantly wrong in the first sentence of that page, as I posted above, I'm not going to take their opinion on the analogue issue either. The legislation says that the TV must be capable of receiving "television broadcasting services broadcast for general reception". An analogue TV is not capable of receiving "television broadcasting services broadcast for general reception". An analogue TV combined with a set-top box is, but only if you actually have a set-top box

ResearchWill

Skinnykenyan wrote: »

http://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/consumer_affairs/media/tv_licence.html

under the section where it says digital switchover it clearly states an analogue tv with or without a tv licence still requires a tv licence. Forgive me for my lack of info im on my phone which is a heap of poo. It dosnt allow me to copy and paste stuff.

Also further down this page it states a television or equipment capable of receiving a signal must have a licence. Even if the tv is broken it is still required to be licenced as it can be repaired to a standard capable of receiving a television signal. As for the monitor question the minister put exemptions into the act for 3g phones and equipment capable of streaming tv and monitors or computer equipment capable of streaming tv. However equipment capable of using a tv card are not exempt

I think the relevant legislation beats the Citizens advice

Citizens Advice says

"If your household, business or institution possesses a television or equipment capable of receiving a television signal, you are required by law to have a television licence. Even if the television or other equipment is broken and currently unable to receive a signal,"

While the Broadcasting Act says

"
142.— (1) Subject to the exceptions mentioned in subsection (3), a person shall not keep or have in his or her possession anywhere in the territory of the State a television set save in so far as such keeping or possession is authorised by a television licence for the time being in force.

(2) A person having possession of a television set under a television licence shall not keep such a television set otherwise than in accordance with the terms and conditions subject to which such licence is expressly, or is by virtue of this Part deemed to have been granted.

(3) This section does not apply to a television set, which is of a class or description for the time being declared by an order of the Minister to be a class or description of television set to which this section is not to apply.
It clearly says Television Set which is defined as

“ television set ” means any electronic apparatus capable of receiving and exhibiting television broadcasting services broadcast for general reception (whether or not its use for that purpose is dependent on the use of anything else in conjunction with it) and any software or assembly comprising such apparatus and other apparatus;
You are correct about the set top box "(whether or not its use for that purpose is dependent on the use of anything else in conjunction with it)"

While a ariel with out a TV is not covered a TV without a ariel is.

lambchops

From http://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/consumer_affairs/media/tv_licences.html

Digital switchover

The EU has decided that all member states must stop broadcasting analogue television by the end of 2012. Saorview is the free-to-air digital terrestrial television (DTT) service which has replaced analogue television in Ireland. It is owned and managed by RTE. Saorsat, a satellite service, provides access to Irish free-to-air digital television channels and services for those unable to receive Saorview. The analogue television service in Ireland switched off on the 24 October 2012. More information is available at saorview.ie and at goingdigital.ie.
With the analogue television service switched off, your analogue television set needs a set-top box to receive digital television. Your analogue television set, with or without a set-top box, still requires a television licence.

Skinnykenyan

I stand corrected on the ariel i think its in the older acts. Im sure people have been fined in regards to the ariel issue though? So i was wrong on the ariel.

phatdolfin

Procrastastudy wrote: »

Invite the Judge round for coffee at your place.

It'd love to but not sure that would happen....all old judges in Ireland....with no sense of humour.

confuseddotcom

areyawell wrote: »

If they even see ya with a laptop u have to pay i'm pretty sure

Our man in Havana wrote: »

Nope.

When are they planning to bring this is in?

phatdolfin wrote: »

Pls don't ignore TV Licence warnings!!!
I told them repeatidelty that I DO NOT HAVE A TV and I'm up in court next week in Galway for not paying the TV Licence. I REALLY DO NOT HAVE A TV. They will not listen. I went to a solicitor and he told me I have 50:50 chance in court. Any advise would be greatly appreciated PLEASE

That sounds ridiculous! If ya say you havn't wouldn't they have to check your home to prove ya don't!

Procrastastudy wrote: »

So would a laptop or monitor... I think this is less clear cut that people think. Links to decisions most welcome of course.

What is the actual story with Laptops?!

Skinnykenyan wrote: »

As for the monitor question the minister put exemptions into the act for 3g phones and equipment capable of streaming tv and monitors or computer equipment capable of streaming tv. However equipment capable of using a tv card are not exempt

Ah okay they're exempt. Are they gonna lift that exemption any time soon though? Never would be ideal!

phatdolfin

28064212 wrote: »

Get a better solicitor. If they go to court and their evidence consists of "Sure everyone has a TV", the judge will laugh in their face.

An Post have a witness statement from a Licence Inspector that 'swears' he saw a TV in my Sitting-room. It was a 27" Samsung Monitor attached to a PC. No TV card and not capable of recieving a signal. They are such bullies. My solicitor said he is surprised with what Licence inspectors get away with, e.g. looking in peoples windows, etc. They also tell people they are legilly entitled to come into your house....they are not!

Skinnykenyan

I believe their was discussions about including these in the act but the minister decided to exempt them.. But in the economic downturn were so sick of hearing about im sure any means if revenue for the state will be lucked at. Im sure someday they will require a licence.

28064212

confuseddotcom wrote: »

Ah okay they're exempt. Are they gonna lift that exemption any time soon though? Never would be ideal!

More likely they're going to replace "TV Licence" with "Broadcasting Licence", and every household will be liable.

phatdolfin wrote: »

An Post have a witness statement from a Licence Inspector that 'swears' he saw a TV in my Sitting-room. It was a 27" Samsung Monitor attached to a PC.

Seriously, get a better solicitor. If he can't bring that evidence to court and defend you with a better than "50:50" probability, he probably isn't very good

Skinnykenyan

Surely his statement is inadmissable in court under what authority did he see this "tv". I mean surely you have suffered an invasion of privacy aswell as being harrassed. Bring the monitor to court with you :-). Better still bring a picture and a snippet of the act where it states monitors are exempt. I believe its in section 140 under the subsection which includes exemptions.

28064212

Skinnykenyan wrote: »

Better still bring a picture and a snippet of the act where it states monitors are exempt. I believe its in section 140 under the subsection which includes exemptions.

The exemptions are defined by Statutory Instrument rather than explicitly in the Act. They're here: http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/2009/en/si/0319.html

Skinnykenyan

28064212 wrote: »

The exemptions are defined by Statutory Instrument rather than explicitly in the Act. They're here: http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/2009/en/si/0319.html

There ya go:-) dump your solicitor offer this man a few pints to represent ya instead ha

Bebo stunnah

Supraman wrote: »

that's a complete lie anyway , I've worked in the P.o for the last few years delivering and have never once been asked to compile such a list . where do these stories come from .

Sure ya do. An Post works along with the CSO. It's how they design the routes. Of course that information is confidential and kept within the organisations. But seeing how the TV licence inspector works for An Post, it wouldnt count as divulging confidential information, sneaky!

More on the proving you don't have a tv, from what I can gather, if the inspector can see signs externally that you receive a signal ie. satellite dish, cable, etc. it's up to you to prove that you don't have one.

Blanchguy

Skinnykenyan wrote: »

Surely his statement is inadmissable in court under what authority did he see this "tv". I mean surely you have suffered an invasion of privacy aswell as being harrassed. Bring the monitor to court with you :-). Better still bring a picture and a snippet of the act where it states monitors are exempt. I believe its in section 140 under the subsection which includes exemptions.

From experience, tv licence inspectors will swear in court that they have seen a tv set where none exists. If the person named on the summons doesn't turn up in court they will be convicted and the guards will turn up to arrest them. If the person does turn up then it's a swearing match. Who does the judge believe...

phatdolfin

HUGE THANK YOU for all the responses. I really feel like I'm being bullied. I always paid the licence when I had a TV. My boyfriend wants to pay it even though we dont have one.....this must qualify as harrassment. Thanks again guys!!!

Skinnykenyan

Im sure the judge would believe the person with no licence if they brought enough proof with them to show otherwise. If a judge sees your informed on the matter they are more likely to believe you and surely the burden of proof would be on the inspector. A sworn statement is hardly sufficient sure i could just swear i dont have a tv it dosnt make it true

Our man in Havana

This chap.

Carawaystick

Would you not need to get a picture of a your monitor and a 27" tv made by samsung and get the inspector to pick which is the tv?

Skinnykenyan

Surely the inspector would pick.the tv to save his own ass presuming he knows the difference. Probably a pic of the monitor and the equipment used to receive the netflix or whatever was being streamed. Maybe a description from the manufacturer stating it dosnt have a tv card or dosnt accept a tv card and is incapable of receiving signal. Also tell the court theirs no way the inspector could tell the difference between a monitor and tv without a close view.

phatdolfin

Carawaystick wrote: »

Would you not need to get a picture of a your monitor and a 27" tv made by samsung and get the inspector to pick which is the tv?

I'd love to but I rand and rang and they won't come back to check. I have photo's of the monitor and its connections to bring to court....hope the judge isn't too old and knows the difference.

phatdolfin

Skinnykenyan wrote: »

Surely the inspector would pick.the tv to save his own ass presuming he knows the difference. Probably a pic of the monitor and the equipment used to receive the netflix or whatever was being streamed. Maybe a description from the manufacturer stating it dosnt have a tv card or dosnt accept a tv card and is incapable of receiving signal. Also tell the court theirs no way the inspector could tell the difference between a monitor and tv without a close view.

I will use that line, thanks so much for your advice, it really is making me feel more confident, cos judges can be very intimidating. If I loose this case I have to go to another level of court that will cost thousands I've been told. All advice so far has been to just give in and pay the licence cos my principles will end up costing me more money.

slimjimmc

Skinnykenyan wrote: »

Surely his statement is inadmissable in court under what authority did he see this "tv". I mean surely you have suffered an invasion of privacy aswell as being harrassed. Bring the monitor to court with you :-). Better still bring a picture and a snippet of the act where it states monitors are exempt. I believe its in section 140 under the subsection which includes exemptions.

phatdolfin wrote: »

An Post have a witness statement from a Licence Inspector that 'swears' he saw a TV in my Sitting-room. It was a 27" Samsung Monitor attached to a PC. No TV card and not capable of recieving a signal. They are such bullies. My solicitor said he is surprised with what Licence inspectors get away with, e.g. looking in peoples windows, etc. They also tell people they are legilly entitled to come into your house....they are not!

You'd be surprised, your solictor shouldn't...

Sect 140

“ premises ” means land, a vehicle, a structure of any kind whether attached or affixed to the land or not and includes a part of a building occupied as a separate dwelling whether or not the occupier with any other person shares any portion of it or any accommodation, amenity or facility in connection with it;

Sect 146).

(3) An officer of an issuing agent may enter at any reasonable time any premises or specified place for the purposes of ascertaining whether there is a television set there and a television licence is for the time being in force in respect of the premises or specified place authorising the keeping of a television set at the premises or specified place.

Our man in Havana

They actually need a search warrant if refused entry.

slimjimmc

Our man in Havana wrote: »

They actually need a search warrant if refused entry.

Agreed, they can't force entry but I would take from Sect 146 that they don't need express permission to snoop around, e.g. they can come onto your site, look through windows, check unlocked sheds, caravans, et.c but must retreat if instructed to do so?

Our man in Havana

Yep, that is pretty much it.

They can enter onto land go thru unlocked doors etc but have to retreat if challenged.

Ronnie Beck

Our man in Havana wrote: »

Yep, that is pretty much it.

They can enter onto land go thru unlocked doors etc but have to retreat if challenged.

Unlocked doors:eek:. I'd be surprised. Don't think the dog would be overly impressed.

Anyway, I wrote them a formal letter today informing them I have no device capable of receiving or exibiting a terrestrial tv signal on the premises and if they continue request a licence for something I don't have, I will be contacting a solicitor.

ResearchWill

Our man in Havana wrote: »

Yep, that is pretty much it.

They can enter onto land go thru unlocked doors etc but have to retreat if challenged.

The Act says

"(3) An officer of an issuing agent may enter at any reasonable time any premises or specified place for the purposes of ascertaining whether there is a television set there and a television licence is for the time being in force in respect of the premises or specified place authorising the keeping of a television set at the premises or specified place."

Premises is defined as

“ premises ” means land, a vehicle, a structure of any kind whether attached or affixed to the land or not and includes a part of a building occupied as a separate dwelling whether or not the occupier with any other person shares any portion of it or any accommodation, amenity or facility in connection with it;"

Specified Place

"
“ specified place ” includes an apartment, holiday apartment or any individual room specified by order under subsection (2);"

Ronnie Beck

Does that ^ mean they can walk in the front door of my house at any reasonable time?

phatdolfin

Ronnie Beck wrote: »

Unlocked doors:eek:. I'd be surprised. Don't think the dog would be overly impressed.

Anyway, I wrote them a formal letter today informing them I have no device capable of receiving or exibiting a terrestrial tv signal on the premises and if they continue request a licence for something I don't have, I will be contacting a solicitor.

I tried that formal letter and I also signed a "Declaration" at their request.....no use, they are still taking me to court next week.

Ronnie Beck

phatdolfin wrote: »

I tried that formal letter and I also signed a "Declaration" at their request.....no use, they are still taking me to court next week.

Bring in your monitor and explain. You'll be grand. The only thing is with the saorview boxes they have scart and HDMI connections so technically your monitor could recieve a signal if you also had a saorview box or a skybox.