TV Licence {MEGAMERGE}

bobbydoo

Let's say I don't own a TV or any other equipment capable of receiving a signal. A TV Licence inspector calls to my door and asks me if he can inspect my house. I tell him no, since I don't own a TV, I don't need to let him inspect anything.

What are my legal rights with regard to TV Licence inspectors searching my house? And could they send me some sort of court summons or legal threat despite the fact that I don't own a TV and don't want anything to do with the shi-ite RTE claims is entertainment?

(And in a related question, how much of our TV licence money should go towards paying for Pat Kenny's Gorse Hill purchase?)

Our man in Havana

They cannot enter and search unless you invite them inside. Now, they might go and get a search warrant, but i doubt they have probable cause.

Maximilian

You may not have a TV but if you have say a TV card in your PC with which you watch TV, you need a license.

Explosive_Cornflake

Maximilian wrote: »

You may not have a TV but if you have say a TV card in your PC with which you watch TV, you need a license.

bobbydoo wrote: »

Let's say I don't own a TV or any other equipment capable of receiving a signal.

I don't like to be this person, but he did mention it.

Sully

I assume you dont have any form of arial, even if its disconnected? As, I always thought the Inspectors just picked up the TV signal or spotted the receiver and called in.

Electric

I think the TV licence inspectors just assume that everyone has a TV.

This girl I work with doesn't have one and when the inspector came to the door he was like yeah right cos I've never heard that excuse before. So she showed him around to prove there was no TV and the inspector said everything was in order. But she still gets reminder letters and every time the inspector comes around she has to go through the whole rigmarole again!

Zapho

Electric wrote: »

I think the TV licence inspectors just assume that everyone has a TV.

I was under the same impression. They don't use any fancy equipment to check to see if you're receiving a signal. Its a pretty safe bet to assume that everyone has a TV. But the justification is getting more difficult these days with more and more people buying PC monitors (without a tuner) instead of TVs and using the net to watch TV.

Maximilian

Explosive_Cornflake wrote: »

I don't like to be this person, but he did mention it.

Oops my bad.

Our man in Havana

Electric wrote: »

I think the TV licence inspectors just assume that everyone has a TV.

Yes, but would such of an assumption satisfy a District Court judge when it came to applying for a search warrant?
I don't think "Sure he must have a tv since everyone else has one." would convince a judge. I would think a judge would ask for more evidence such as is the person a subscriber to cable tv etc? Is there a aerial on the roof? Could you hear a tv in the background?

At least I would hope a judge would enquire more before issuing a warrant.

Fighting Irish

[snipped]

Turner

What happens if you dont open your door ?

And if you do open your door i presume they would demand your name. Is there legislation making it an offence if you dont give your name?

Our man in Havana

Is there legislation making it an offence if you dont give your name?

No. If they have Gardaí with them you would have to give your name to the Garda.

I assume you can get a search warrant for a particular property without a name?

haz

Electric wrote: »

I think the TV licence inspectors just assume that everyone has a TV.

It's a long time since I bought a TV, but don't retailers have an obligation to collect the name and address and forward it to An Post for their TV licensing database?

On a tangent, the Irish government still hasn't decided if a 3G phone is or is not "a device capable of receiving public broadcasts", and plenty of people watch sports highlights etc on them. They probably haven't got around to thinking about YouTube, but that isn't broadcast per se.

Our man in Havana

haz wrote: »

It's a long time since I bought a TV, but don't retailers have an obligation to collect the name and address and forward it to An Post for their TV licensing database?

Nope, not in the republic. They do in the UK though.

Del2005

Chief--- wrote: »

What happens if you dont open your door ?

And if you do open your door i presume they would demand your name. Is there legislation making it an offence if you dont give your name?

They can't do anything till you open the door.

On the name front they ask for a name but don't do anything to validate it. There was a thread here where someone got a conviction for no TV licence cause the people in the place she used to live gave her name to the inspector.

Our man in Havana

They have also prosecuted on the strength of a name found on a letter in a bin.
The inspectors do stoop low to get results by rifling in peoples garbage.

bobbydoo

But isn't this a larger issue of the government trampling all over our right to privacy? I mean how can they justify harassing people who don't want to buy a TV or watch crappy TV shows?

Imagine the government decided to assume that every person in Ireland owned a car and sent inspectors to snoop around the houses of people who haven't paid for car tax. Imagine they started sending you threatening legal letters and brought you to court simply because they don't believe you haven't bought a car.

I'm just irritated that some joker can knock on the door of my house and demand that I let him in to "inspect" my home. It's really outrageous when you think about it. What happened to our rights?

cushtac

bobbydoo wrote: »

I'm just irritated that some joker can knock on the door of my house and demand that I let him in to "inspect" my home. It's really outrageous when you think about it. What happened to our rights?

Nothing's happened to your rights, he can't enter your house uninvited without a warrant.

mountainyman

Electric wrote: »

I think the TV licence inspectors just assume that everyone has a TV.

This girl I work with doesn't have one and when the inspector came to the door he was like yeah right cos I've never heard that excuse before. So she showed him around to prove there was no TV and the inspector said everything was in order. But she still gets reminder letters and every time the inspector comes around she has to go through the whole rigmarole again!

The inspector wouldn't come in when I told him 'no TV' another lad came over and now I am on alist and do not get the letters.

Everyone has a TV until proven otherwise. That's the attitude.

Del2005

Bond-007 wrote: »

They have also prosecuted on the strength of a name found on a letter in a bin.
The inspectors do stoop low to get results by rifling in peoples garbage.

That's another reason why you should always shred/burn your post.

And there was me thinking it was to prevent identity theft:D

Tomk1

A bit off subject but they should just go digital and scramble bog1&2

Would you stll need a licence for I(TV3).

If you watch Irish TV then I think ok pay Pat the planks wage, RTE propramme does not intrest me, it makes me cringe, so why should i be forced to pay for someone else's tv viewing. If they did progrmming on say the history of Ireland (like the programmes the BBC has done) then mybe I would say ok.

Victor

Because its a public service. Governments collect taxes for public services, even if you don't avail of that particular service.

haz

Maximilian wrote: »

You may not have a TV but if you have say a TV card in your PC with which you watch TV, you need a license.

In the Irish Times today http://www.ireland.com/newspaper/ireland/2008/0502/1209632814744.html it says that "viewers who watch digital television on their computers or mobile phones will be exempt from paying licence fees" announcing measures by Minister Ryan to encourage digital broadcast takeup.

It is not clear in the report if these measures distinguish between a TV reception card attached to an aerial and streamed TV via broadband, nor how the measures could be capable of distinguishing between analogue and digital public broadcasts.

Either way, this is blowing a big hole in the existing principle that a license is universally required for possession of equipment capable of reception. Along with the preferential treatment of (primarily UK-controlled) cable / satellite sports coverage, it looks like another nail in the coffin for Irish broadcasting.

roast

Hey all,

Bit of an odd one.
Neighbour has a TV which is used with a couple of game consoles through the Scart connection. The TV tuner port was snapped a while back, and it was damaged. The entire TV tuner part was removed from it, as there was a few loose wires.

My question is, is he still liable to pay for a TV licence, if the device isn't actually capable of receiving and decoding a terrestrial TV signal?

My understanding of the TV licence is that if the device has a Tuner/decoder circuit built into it, it must be licenced. As his TV doesn't, he says he doesn't need a licence.

He assures me he's not liable to pay. I'm skeptical about it, but it does make sense. Can anyone clarify on this?

Cheers!
Mick.

Our man in Havana

As it stands the TV cannot receive a signal so he is in the clear.

If he has a video/sat/cable receiver with a tuner he will become liable.

murrayp4

afaik if the TV is repairable the it falls under the legislation

Our man in Havana

Nope, once the tuner is disabled it does not need a licence.

Scealta_saol

Make sure he doesn't have a radio. TV licence covers the radio waves for signals so having a radio to receive the signals means he has to have a TV licence.

Our man in Havana

Not true. Radio licences were abolished back in the 70's.

roast

Our man in Havana wrote: »

As it stands the TV cannot receive a signal so he is in the clear.

If he has a video/sat/cable receiver with a tuner he will become liable.

Thanks for that, I thought as much.

On a side note, isn't the TV licence legislation to cover just terrestrial TV? Such as RTE1, 2 etc.
In the case of cable or satellite, isn't the licencing fee paid to the operator, who in turn forward the funds to each Channel company?
Or, do you mean that if the sat/cable box has a terrestrial tuner other than the actual cable/sat input, that he would be liable to the fee?

Our man in Havana

If he can receive any TV, cable and satellite is included in this he becomes liable.

slimjimmc

roast wrote: »

Thanks for that, I thought as much.

On a side note, isn't the TV licence legislation to cover just terrestrial TV? Such as RTE1, 2 etc.
In the case of cable or satellite, isn't the licencing fee paid to the operator, who in turn forward the funds to each Channel company?
Or, do you mean that if the sat/cable box has a terrestrial tuner other than the actual cable/sat input, that he would be liable to the fee?

No, you're mixing up a TV set licence with service subscriptions. A subscription to a service such as UPC or Sky has nothing to do with the TV licence. You still need a TV licence whether you receive a TV broadcast over terrestrial broadcasts (UHF, VHF, MMDS), satellite or cable service.

roast

slimjimmc wrote: »

No, you're mixing up a TV set licence with service subscriptions. A subscription to a service such as UPC or Sky has nothing to do with the TV licence. You still need a TV licence whether you receive a TV broadcast over terrestrial broadcasts (UHF, VHF, MMDS), satellite or cable service.

Ah right, I just thought the TV licence covers UHF and VHF tuning, not others.

Cheers for the help guys, I tell him now and get him to stop talkin' sh**e. :pac:

Bruthal

If he was using the tv only for gaming, and had no other aparatus to do with tv (sky box etc) he would still need a licence. But in the same situation where the tuner has been removed, then he would not.

An office that uses a tv soley for safety videos for example, would need a licence, removing the tuner though, and the tv becomes a monitor.

In reality, the tv licence is just a tax, called a tv licence because years ago, having a tv was directly involved with availing of the terrestrial service. Its called a tv licence because it ensures every premises is in the net, or almost every one is. These days, a tv set in the legislation is just about everything associated with a tv.

It should be interesting during next summer when the analogue terrestrial system is switched off. What then for the office tv which then cant tune in any irish channels, and so technically becomes a monitor.

AisCat

Hi,

I have just received a legal notice to get a TV licence, i would like to have the tuner port removed and not have to buy a licence, can anyone tell me how to do it or where to get it done asap please!

roast

AisCat wrote: »

Hi,

I have just received a legal notice to get a TV licence, i would like to have the tuner port removed and not have to buy a licence, can anyone tell me how to do it or where to get it done asap please!

Most TV's have the tuner board mounted on the main circuit board nowadays, it's probably not advisable to do it yourself unless you're comfortable with electronics.
Short of taking the TV to a repair store and requesting it be done, kick it until it doesn't work. :pac:

Bruthal

Unless you have nothing else in the house such as sky, ntl etc, and you only use the tv for watching dvd`s and gaming, removing the tuner wont exempt you from the licence anyway.

During next year, the analogue signal will be switched off, and so there will be a high percentage of tv`s unable to tune terrestrial channels anyway. So tv`s in offices used solely for work related video playing etc, would then be exempt. But maybe it will be a media licence by then, if not already.

Why not just rename it with its real name, the RTE tax.

Victor

robbie7730 wrote: »

Why not just rename it with its real name, the RTE tax.

While RTÉ get the bulk of the money, other channels and producers do get a proportion.

Capt'n Midnight

http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/1988/en/act/pub/0019/sec0002.html#sec2

“‘apparatus for wireless telegraphy’ means apparatus capable of emitting and receiving, or emitting only or receiving only, over paths which are not provided by any material substance constructed or arranged for that purpose, electric, magnetic or electro-magnetic energy, of a frequency not exceeding 3 million megahertz, whether or not such energy serves the conveying (whether they are actually received or not) of communications, sounds, signs, visual images or signals, or the actuation or control of machinery or apparatus, and includes any part of such apparatus, or any article capable of being used as part of such apparatus, and also includes any other apparatus which is associated with, or electrically coupled to, apparatus capable of so emitting such energy”; and


“‘wireless telegraphy’ means the emitting and receiving, or emitting only or receiving only, over paths which are not provided by any material substance constructed or arranged for that purpose, of electric, magnetic or electromagnetic energy of a frequency not exceeding 3 million megahertz, whether or not such energy serves the conveying (whether they are actually received or not) of communications, sounds, signs, visual images or signals, or the actuation or control of machinery or apparatus.”.


“Television set” means any apparatus for wireless telegraphy capable of receiving and exhibiting television programmes broadcast for general reception (whether or not its use for that purpose is dependent on the use of anything else in conjunction therewith) and any assembly comprising such apparatus and other apparatus.

http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/2009/en/act/pub/0018/sec0140.html

“ television set ” means any electronic apparatus capable of receiving and exhibiting television broadcasting services broadcast for general reception (whether or not its use for that purpose is dependent on the use of anything else in conjunction with it) and any software or assembly comprising such apparatus and other apparatus;

http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/2009/en/si/0319.html
Portable devices under 160 square cm are exempt ( ie ~ 16cmx10cm ~7.5" screen - so most netbooks and tablets would need a license if they had a USB tuner - an old eeecp 700 might be okish)

From what I understand a TV with a broken connector could be used as an excuse in the UK but here in ROI a set has to beyond a quick repair , it has to be decomissioned. "or any article capable of being used as part of such apparatus"

PCPhoto

Can someone assist me here ... trying to settle a bet.

Do the TV Licence laws need to be re-written ? Yes/No

At the moment the laws essentially comes down to if you have the capacity to receive a TV signal you must purchase a TV licence.

Every household, business or institution in Ireland with a television or equipment capable of receiving a television signal (using an aerial, satellite dish, cable or other means) must have a television licence

Quote taken from here

anyway - my point is that smart phones these days are capable of receiving a TV signal thus meaning that anyone who owns a smart phone should (in theory) have to purchase a TV licence. !


I say that the laws may be re-written to allow for a subsection mobile TV licence - my friend says they cant expect people to purchase a TV licence for having a phone !! (thus meaning that the law as it stands is fundamentally flawed)

draiochtanois

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BrianD

draiochtanois wrote: »

This post has been deleted.

How is it a double taxation? Why sell Donnybrook?

Why sell the stations?

It is possible that they could have a different licence for mobiles. Other alternatives COULD be - to access content you have to register in advance with your TV licence number, the ISP forces you to register in advance to be able to watch TV or the ISP charges you a licence fee which they pass on to RTE.

Possible options of which some are more practical than others. But any body who thinks that there is "free access to all content" because it's on the Internet is on a hiding to nowhere. Look at the 3 strikes here, the laws in the UK and including having to opt in to view porn that was announced this week and in Australia there is a Chinese style "firewall" in action.

Paulw

PCPhoto wrote: »

anyway - my point is that smart phones these days are capable of receiving a TV signal thus meaning that anyone who owns a smart phone should (in theory) have to purchase a TV licence. !

A smart-phone can display a data download, but can't receive a TV signal. There is no tuner function on a phone, only a media player.

So, no license is required, would be my view.

draiochtanois

This post has been deleted.

slimjimmc

PCPhoto wrote: »

At the moment the laws essentially comes down to if you have the capacity to receive a TV signal you must purchase a TV licence.

Actually that quote is not quite accurate, it must be capable of receiving and displaying a TV broadcast before requiring a licence.
http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/1972/en/act/pub/0005/sec0001.html

Paulw wrote: »

A smart-phone can display a data download, but can't receive a TV signal. There is no tuner function on a phone, only a media player.

So, no license is required, would be my view.

Even if it did have a TV tuner it would be exempt because it is portable with a viewing area less than 160cm2.
http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/2009/en/si/0319.html


So, no a smartphone does not need a TV licence.

BrianD

draiochtanois wrote: »

This post has been deleted.

Nonsense, you are not paying for it twice. The amount is a licence not a tax.

Because even now it is some of the most expensive land in the country and a scaled down and modern media service don't need this much space

Irrelevant and notional. Quite a chunk of the "campus" is open space anyway. Land prices will rise and fall. The amount of money that the site would bring in is a blip in the grand scheme of things. Most of it would go in relocation. Nothing to be gained.

Because we don't need two channels and two stations to broadcast syndicated material from the UK and US

You can argue that with any public broadcaster, All show a mix of domestic and imported material. It's about choice.

I'm fine with the subvention to TG4 both in scale and what they achieve with it. Half a million for "presenters" though is not required.

I would agree that some RTE staff are considerably overpaid and need adjustment. However, they will always be appear to be overpaid because they bring in the audience.

Captain Chaos

It is a tax,

Either
1: Call it a TV tax and leave it as it is.

or

2: Call it a licence and change the law that, if you use it , you pay for it. (ie you can own a TV just for gaming and watching content on HDD and not pay the licence fee)

Manach

The license is a tax by the government to prop up a semi-state organisation which has outlived whatever relevance it might have had.

GerardKeating

draiochtanois wrote: »

This post has been deleted.

By this Argument, the fee for a Passport, Driving Licence etc is a double tax,

Victor

GerardKeating wrote: »

By this Argument, the fee for a Passport, Driving Licence etc is a double tax,

As would VAT, CAT, CGT, stamp duty ...

I do disgree that it isn't quite a tax as it is only required by those who own TVs and is payable whether one uses the TV or not.

Our man in Havana

Remove the tuner and get rid of anything that can accept a tv signal.