The Academies

academyfan0

Dbu wrote: »

Is there a Munster sub academy list of names?

nothing published.

Heymans

academyfan0 wrote: »

Josh is a Munster player and has no desire to play for Leinster, so it's not really a case of Leinster snapping him up or not.

Josh has chosen to join the Munster sub academy.

Interesting that you'd rate Josh ahead of Dooley and E Byrne, both who had as good or better underage careers and are still young for props and have good senior experience.

I rate his potential better than Byrne or Dooley - I'm not saying he'sd there yet but has a higher ceiling than those 2 in the future. Certainly I would rate him ahead of those 2 at his age I would say he has shown more to merit him being recruited. I'm sure if he was given the chance to enter the Leinster Academy or Sub-Academy he would "snap it up". Was unaware he was in the Munster Sub-Academy. He may not want to join Leinster for College/Family purposes but I would say if he was accommodated like Milne he would certainly think about the offer after all he did play in Leinster Schools Cup for 3 years..

academyfan0

Heymans wrote: »

I rate his potential better than Byrne or Dooley - I'm not saying he'sd there yet but has a higher ceiling than those 2 in the future. Certainly I would rate him ahead of those 2 at his age I would say he has shown more to merit him being recruited. I'm sure if he was given the chance to enter the Leinster Academy or Sub-Academy he would "snap it up". Was unaware he was in the Munster Sub-Academy. He may not want to join Leinster for College/Family purposes but I would say if he was accommodated like Milne he would certainly think about the offer after all he did play in Leinster Schools Cup for 3 years..

At his age Ed Byrne had joined the leinster academy straight from school and had starred for clongowes in the senior cup, while Dooley had started and impressed for Ireland u20 as a under-19.

No he would not snap it up, not everyone wants to play for leinster. Josh is a munster fan, he grew up playing for a munster club in west cork, his brother is a munster player and has always played for munster underage. It is not similar to Milne, who is a leinster fan, who grew up playing for a leinster club and played for leinster underage.

He played leinster schools rugby for 2 years - 5th and 6th year. Because he attended Roscrea, not because he is a leinster fan or wants to play for leinster.

Leinster do not recruit players from other provinces for their academy, simple as, even if they did, Josh does not want to play for Leinster.

Heymans

academyfan0 wrote: »

At his age Ed Byrne had joined the leinster academy straight from school and had starred for clongowes in the senior cup, while Dooley had started and impressed for Ireland u20 as a under-19.

No he would not snap it up, not everyone wants to play for leinster. Josh is a munster fan, he grew up playing for a munster club in west cork, his brother is a munster player and has always played for munster underage. It is not similar to Milne, who is a leinster fan, who grew up playing for a leinster club and played for leinster underage.

He played leinster schools rugby for 2 years - 5th and 6th year. Because he attended Roscrea, not because he is a leinster fan or wants to play for leinster.

Leinster do not recruit players from other provinces for their academy, simple as, even if they did, Josh does not want to play for Leinster.

They may not recruit players from other provinces but how do you explain Caelin Dorris then? He's a Mayo man playing for Leinster. Josh may not support Leinster but he is highly rated by the Irish slectors and would potentially go where there is professional opportunity - Leinster being a place for the reasons I have highlighted previously. The incumbents aren't as highly rated as he is and he would have opportunity to play first team rugby very soon after Healy McGrath retire. I believe his performances in the Cup merit him being looked at by Leinster in a position we have lightweighht options in. Wyncherly could easily by pass Dooley and Byrne from what I've seen of him. It's a miss by Leinster if it is the case he has chosen Munster but him playing in the LEINSTER schools cup for Roscrea would merit him being considered for selection in the sub Academy or Academy in a position where we are light. Besides he might actually like the thought of playing with his peers/competitors from the Schools Cup and challenging himself against them.

academyfan0

Doris is from Mayo but went to Blackrock College for 6 years and played for Leinster underage teams since he was 15.

Josh is from Cork but went to Roscrea for 2 years and played for Munster underage teams since he was 15.

If you do not see the differnce, well that's unfortunate.

He was given the option of playing for his home province, Munster, and he took it. Amazingly he loves the thought of playing for Munster with his brother.

And it's laughable for you to say that he could easily pass Dooley or Byrne, he is a 19 year old prop who has never played adult rugby.

It's not a miss by Leinster as he was never an option available, Leinster will be perfectly fine at that position.

Anyway i'm done, explaining the basics to you.

Heymans

academyfan0 wrote: »

Doris is from Mayo but went to Blackrock College for 6 years and played for Leinster underage teams since he was 15.

Josh is from Cork but went to Roscrea for 2 years and played for Munster underage teams since he was 15.

If you do not see the difference, well that's unfortunate.

He was given the option of playing for his home province, Munster, and he took it. Amazingly he loves the thought of playing for Munster with his brother.

And it's laughable for you to say that he could easily pass Dooley or Byrne, he is a 19 year old prop who has never played adult rugby.

It's not a miss by Leinster as he was never an option available, Leinster will be perfectly fine at that position.

Anyway i'm done, explaining the basics to you.

Playing with his brother is a pull but the pull of potential international career could be a bigger pull for him.

It isn't "laughable" to say he has a higher ceiling than Byrne or Dooley. They are mid tier Pro 14 journeymen. They haven't looked like making international standard their whole career.

Finally, to say Leinster will be perfectly fine at this position shows your limited standard of rugby knowledge. Professionalism requires recruiting of the best in order to be the best. Having played in the Leinster system he would be on the Leinster selectors radar. Where he prefers to play is a matter of choice but having a path open up to a young breakthrough might weigh in favour of him moving to Leinster. To say he wants to play with his brother is laughable to an ambitious athlete.

arsebiscuits1

Heymans wrote: »

Playing with his brother is a pull but the pull of potential international career could be a bigger pull for him.

It isn't "laughable" to say he has a higher ceiling than Byrne or Dooley. They are mid tier Pro 14 journeymen. They haven't looked like making international standard their whole career.

Finally, to say Leinster will be perfectly fine at this position shows your limited standard of rugby knowledge. Professionalism requires recruiting of the best in order to be the best. Having played in the Leinster system he would be on the Leinster selectors radar. Where he prefers to play is a matter of choice but having a path open up to a young breakthrough might weigh in favour of him moving to Leinster. To say he wants to play with his brother is laughable to an ambitious athlete.

Ironic from the person who just thought Doris was "a mayo man playing for Leinster" when trying to argue Leinster don't recruit from outside the provinces

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lf6iJ3qW3PQ

Give that interview there a wee listen. Mayo man through and through? :pac:

Give it a rest buddy. You've backed yourself into a corner arguing a case for a 19 year old prop who has proven absolutely nothing at senior rugby. Better to just stop instead of embarrasing yourself further

arsebiscuits1

Heymans wrote: »

Playing with his brother is a pull but the pull of potential international career could be a bigger pull for him.

It isn't "laughable" to say he has a higher ceiling than Byrne or Dooley. They are mid tier Pro 14 journeymen. They haven't looked like making international standard their whole career.

Finally, to say Leinster will be perfectly fine at this position shows your limited standard of rugby knowledge. Professionalism requires recruiting of the best in order to be the best. Having played in the Leinster system he would be on the Leinster selectors radar. Where he prefers to play is a matter of choice but having a path open up to a young breakthrough might weigh in favour of him moving to Leinster. To say he wants to play with his brother is laughable to an ambitious athlete.

And on this point.

Why was Byrne given a senior contract with no senior experience given his knee injuries??

Because he is rated highly that is why. By people in Leinster who matter.

He's rewarded that faith with incredibly promising performances. Especially given he is 2 years behind others on development

Your limited rugby knowledge just doesn't let you see this.

academyfan0

Heymans wrote: »

Playing with his brother is a pull but the pull of potential international career could be a bigger pull for him.

It isn't "laughable" to say he has a higher ceiling than Byrne or Dooley. They are mid tier Pro 14 journeymen. They haven't looked like making international standard their whole career.

Finally, to say Leinster will be perfectly fine at this position shows your limited standard of rugby knowledge. Professionalism requires recruiting of the best in order to be the best. Having played in the Leinster system he would be on the Leinster selectors radar. Where he prefers to play is a matter of choice but having a path open up to a young breakthrough might weigh in favour of him moving to Leinster. To say he wants to play with his brother is laughable to an ambitious athlete.

He can have an international career and play with his brother, playing for Munster, his team growing up who has played all his provincial rugby with. He has no desire to play for Leinster.

End of.

He may have a higher ceiling than those two, but to say he would easily pass them is literally laughable as he has yet to even play senior rugby.

academyfan0

Anyway Leinster have much bigger concerns at Hooker than LH Prop.

Heymans

arsebiscuits1 wrote: »

And on this point.

Why was Byrne given a senior contract with no senior experience given his knee injuries??

Because he is rated highly that is why. By people in Leinster who matter.

He's rewarded that faith with incredibly promising performances. Especially given he is 2 years behind others on development

Your limited rugby knowledge just doesn't let you see this.

I think you're talking out your arse. Byrne was small prop at school at was selected because his TEAM did so well in the Cup over his year and the previous year. He wasn't as good individually as the team was. He hasn't showed anything to warrant him being slected ahead of either Healy or Mcgrath despite being widely respected and a hard worker to boot. Didn't mean to be disrepespectful but given his current status I wouldn't rate him more than a good Pro 14 standard.

Heymans

arsebiscuits1 wrote: »

Ironic from the person who just thought Doris was "a mayo man playing for Leinster" when trying to argue Leinster don't recruit from outside the provinces

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lf6iJ3qW3PQ

Give that interview there a wee listen. Mayo man through and through? :pac:

Give it a rest buddy. You've backed yourself into a corner arguing a case for a 19 year old prop who has proven absolutely nothing at senior rugby. Better to just stop instead of embarrasing yourself further

I haven't backed myself into a corner. For a player to male it at Senior level he must first get recognition and then be selected and given game time. That's what I'm argiuing for simply based on the performances I have seen him play at. Nothing more nothing less.

arsebiscuits1

Heymans wrote: »

I think you're talking out your arse. Byrne was small prop at school at was selected because his TEAM did so well in the Cup over his year and the previous year. He wasn't as good individually as the team was. He hasn't showed anything to warrant him being slected ahead of either Healy or Mcgrath despite being widely respected and a hard worker to boot. Didn't mean to be disrepespectful but given his current status I wouldn't rate him more than a good Pro 14 standard.

A play on my username? Wow. Excellent work.

Like I have said. He is 2 years behind on his development due to 2 horrendous knee injuries. So he just finished his first full season of senior rugby with 16 appearances and 600 minutes. You can paint it any way you want, that is impressive. Yes he currently pro14 standard. Most players are expected to be after a year of senior rugby...

Cute of you to accuse me of talking ****e and then proceed to wildly speculate that he was selected because of the quality of the team he was on and nothing more.

That's not how scouting or recuitment works for professional rugby. Given you've given snide comments about other peoples lack of knowledge. You really don't seem to know much yourself.

arsebiscuits1

Heymans wrote: »

I haven't backed myself into a corner. For a player to male it at Senior level he must first get recognition and then be selected and given game time. That's what I'm argiuing for simply based on the performances I have seen him play at. Nothing more nothing less.

So the point on Doris you've so gracefully side stepped? :rolleyes:

arsebiscuits1

academyfan0 wrote: »

Anyway Leinster have much bigger concerns at Hooker than LH Prop.

I'm not so sure.

I think Kelleher is the real deal. I think he will really be knocking at the door this season

Dubinusa

Big year for Treacy. He needs to step it up to get back into the frame for the rwc. I think Cronin also needs a big year as JS seems to be looking elsewhere.

Richie_Rich89

Ed Byrne and Peter Dooley are excellent players. Byrne has excellent handling ability and a good footballing brain, and Dooley is an extremely dynamic carrier. He reminds me of David Wallace. They don't get opportunities to show it in the games that matter because Leinster have two of the best looseheads in the world ahead of them.

stephen_n

So if a prop can’t get past the two current Irish props, one of whom was a starting lion 12 months ago. Then he’s clearly not good enough, shiny new toy blah blah blah. :rolleyes:

academyfan0

arsebiscuits1 wrote: »

I'm not so sure.

I think Kelleher is the real deal. I think he will really be knocking at the door this season

Kelleher has all the talent, but he has had a serious injury in every single season of rugby since he 4th year.

So until he can prove he can stay healthy, It's a concern.

4 hookers on the books in total isn't enough IMO.

academyfan0

Dubinusa wrote: »

Big year for Treacy. He needs to step it up to get back into the frame for the rwc. I think Cronin also needs a big year as JS seems to be looking elsewhere.

I dont think Tracy has any chance at making the RWC.

academyfan0

Heymans wrote: »

I think you're talking out your arse. Byrne was small prop at school at was selected because his TEAM did so well in the Cup over his year and the previous year. He wasn't as good individually as the team was.

what absolute ****e. The Byrne twins were stars in 5th and 6th year and were much better schools player than Josh W.

Josh W wasn't even the best prop on his team.

Harryclaim

Good to see Conor Hayes getting picked up by connacht , not sure if it’s been mentioned on here yet also does anyone know what deal Conor firz is on at connacht? Connacht have also added oran McNulty from bath to there sub academy

FR2

Any idea what club Aaron O'Sullivan is going to?

academyfan0

FR2 wrote: »

Any idea what club Aaron O'Sullivan is going to?

UCD presumably, as he is going to college there.

academyfan0

Leinster have had 4 irish under-20 hookers in the last two classes, only 1 made the leinster academy.

Tadgh McElroy - Saracens Academy
Ronan Kelleher - Leinster Academy
Eoghan Clarke - Munster Academy
Dan Sheehan - DUFC

ArmchairQB

academyfan0 wrote: »

Leinster have had 4 irish under-20 hookers in the last two classes, only 1 made the leinster academy.

Tadgh McElroy - Saracens Academy
Ronan Kelleher - Leinster Academy
Eoghan Clarke - Munster Academy
Dan Sheehan - DUFC

McElroy could be the one they regret letting go! A battle between himself and Kelleher would have been nice I would have taken them both.

Ally Bren 92

Mark Fleming(glenstal) and John McKee (campell) have joined Leinster u20s

The Lost Sheep

Ally Bren 92 wrote: »

Mark Fleming(glenstal) and John McKee (campell) have joined Leinster u20s

better suited to 20s thread then, no?
Havent joined an academy(yet). would be highly surprised either are with Leinster who dont really pick beyond the province as no need to

Ally Bren 92

The Lost Sheep wrote: »

Ally Bren 92 wrote: »

Mark Fleming(glenstal) and John McKee (campell) have joined Leinster u20s

better suited to 20s thread then, no?
Havent joined an academy(yet). would be highly surprised either are with Leinster who dont really pick beyond the province as no need to[/quote

Well I guess you’re surprised then because it’s true

Harryclaim

The Lost Sheep wrote: »

better suited to 20s thread then, no?
Havent joined an academy(yet). would be highly surprised either are with Leinster who dont really pick beyond the province as no need to

John McKee would be a massive coup if true , Fleming is a very good player too both should make Irish 20/ next year