The Academies

ArmchairQB

Dubinusa wrote: »

I think that Charlie Ryan will feel hard done by. Surprised he wasn't offered a spot. Could see him at another province? Same with Daly. Leinster letting a lot of potential talent slip thru the cracks.

No need for another 2nd row right now and Ryan not better than anyone taken. He is very injury prone and has yet to prove himself at 20s level don't think he has played much club rugby at all last season except towards the end of the season. Work in progress still has time he is under 20 again next year and might make it then

Heymans

There's a lot that can feel hard done by with the Leinster Academy selection. Preference is being showed to Michael's graduates although I'm not sure their performances merit selection. Look at the Rock players who didn't get a look in - Maher, Charlie Ryan and Liam Turner. The latter a Cup winning captain but being deemed not good enough for Academy. Then there's Hawkshaw - twice Cup winning flyhalf and best player in Senior Cup this year. Finally my left field selection would have been to give a sub Academy place to looshead Wyncherly - we are flush with tight heads at the moment with Abdeladze and Porter being promoted and also having Milne in the Academy. Would it not have been wise to cover a position we are getting on with and bring in Wyncherly to the Loosehead ranks. Was on IRish U19's this season if memory serves me correctly.

case885

Heymans wrote:

There's a lot that can feel hard done by with the Leinster Academy selection. Preference is being showed to Michael's graduates although I'm not sure their performances merit selection. Look at the Rock players who didn't get a look in - Maher, Charlie Ryan and Liam Turner. The latter a Cup winning captain but being deemed not good enough for Academy. Then there's Hawkshaw - twice Cup winning flyhalf and best player in Senior Cup this year. Finally my left field selection would have been to give a sub Academy place to looshead Wyncherly - we are flush with tight heads at the moment with Abdeladze and Porter being promoted and also having Milne in the Academy. Would it not have been wise to cover a position we are getting on with and bring in Wyncherly to the Loosehead ranks. Was on IRish U19's this season if memory serves me correctly.

He's playing Munster underage and from Cork, why would he want to join Leinster?

shoutman

Heymans wrote: »

There's a lot that can feel hard done by with the Leinster Academy selection. Preference is being showed to Michael's graduates although I'm not sure their performances merit selection. Look at the Rock players who didn't get a look in - Maher, Charlie Ryan and Liam Turner. The latter a Cup winning captain but being deemed not good enough for Academy. Then there's Hawkshaw - twice Cup winning flyhalf and best player in Senior Cup this year. Finally my left field selection would have been to give a sub Academy place to looshead Wyncherly - we are flush with tight heads at the moment with Abdeladze and Porter being promoted and also having Milne in the Academy. Would it not have been wise to cover a position we are getting on with and bring in Wyncherly to the Loosehead ranks. Was on IRish U19's this season if memory serves me correctly.

Hawkshaw is the one that is most baffling to me, I thought he would have been considered a shoe in.

ArmchairQB

shoutman wrote: »

Hawkshaw is the one that is most baffling to me, I thought he would have been considered a shoe in.

Not a fan of lads been given academy spots straight out of school would prefer they earned it playing with a club or thru Irish 20s performances. hasn't done Aungier or Dardis or any of the recent appointments any good at all. James Ryan didnt even get it straight from school and Ryan Baird is no James Ryan at same stage of his development. Not sure why you think Hawkshaw was a shoe in? Has been injury prone and need to prove himself to be better than whats there at the moment not sure he is pro material to be honest. Turner has potential if he joins a decent club and gerts a chance to impress have talked about Ryan before he is young and still has a chance

Heymans

case885 wrote: »

He's playing Munster underage and from Cork, why would he want to join Leinster?

He should want to join Leinster because he played in the Leinster Senior Cup competition and also they are now 4 times European Champions. Was unaware he was playing underage from Munster. Is he in the Munster Academy of just playing club rugby there?

Heymans

shoutman wrote: »

Hawkshaw is the one that is most baffling to me, I thought he would have been considered a shoe in.

Considering the talent he showed at SCT level yes I thought he would be s shoe in. And considering we are light in the outhalf position I thought that would merit inclusion in some form or another.

The Lost Sheep

Heymans wrote: »

There's a lot that can feel hard done by with the Leinster Academy selection. Preference is being showed to Michael's graduates although I'm not sure their performances merit selection. Look at the Rock players who didn't get a look in - Maher, Charlie Ryan and Liam Turner. The latter a Cup winning captain but being deemed not good enough for Academy. Then there's Hawkshaw - twice Cup winning flyhalf and best player in Senior Cup this year. Finally my left field selection would have been to give a sub Academy place to looshead Wyncherly - we are flush with tight heads at the moment with Abdeladze and Porter being promoted and also having Milne in the Academy. Would it not have been wise to cover a position we are getting on with and bring in Wyncherly to the Loosehead ranks. Was on IRish U19's this season if memory serves me correctly.

There will always be plenty who may feel hard done. There isnt a bias towards any school. Dont be childish. Perhaps Hawkshaw is not interested in pro rugby. Maybe he wants to hurl?
Wycherly is from Cork. In Munster set up. Not going to go to Leinster

ArmchairQB wrote: »

Not a fan of lads been given academy spots straight out of school would prefer they earned it playing with a club or thru Irish 20s performances. hasn't done Aungier or Dardis or any of the recent appointments any good at all. James Ryan didnt even get it straight from school and Ryan Baird is no James Ryan at same stage of his development. Not sure why you think Hawkshaw was a shoe in? Has been injury prone and need to prove himself to be better than whats there at the moment not sure he is pro material to be honest. Turner has potential if he joins a decent club and gerts a chance to impress have talked about Ryan before he is young and still has a chance

Yeah. Totally agree. 20s national performances or adult rugby performances should really determine academy spots but pressure from other pro sides can often determine giving contracts straight away.

Heymans wrote: »

He should want to join Leinster because he played in the Leinster Senior Cup competition and also they are now 4 times European Champions. Was unaware he was playing underage from Munster. Is he in the Munster Academy of just playing club rugby there?

He did play schools cup. hasnt played leinster senior cup yet but he only moved for some of senior cycle in roscrea

seliot900

Heymans wrote: »

There's a lot that can feel hard done by with the Leinster Academy selection. Preference is being showed to Michael's graduates although I'm not sure their performances merit selection. Look at the Rock players who didn't get a look in - Maher, Charlie Ryan and Liam Turner. The latter a Cup winning captain but being deemed not good enough for Academy. Then there's Hawkshaw - twice Cup winning flyhalf and best player in Senior Cup this year. Finally my left field selection would have been to give a sub Academy place to looshead Wyncherly - we are flush with tight heads at the moment with Abdeladze and Porter being promoted and also having Milne in the Academy. Would it not have been wise to cover a position we are getting on with and bring in Wyncherly to the Loosehead ranks. Was on IRish U19's this season if memory serves me correctly.

Why would Peter Smyth a former blackrock player and coach have a preference towards Michaels players?

Tom Maher is an under-18, he had a quiet cup season and didnt play irish schools this season. He will need to prove himself in the sub-academy next season and aim to play for ireland u20.

Charlie Ryan is an under-19, missed the 1st half of the season with injury, was 4th choice lock for Ireland u20 behind two other leinster locks, one who made the academy and another who didn't. He will need to cement his place as 1st choice for Ireland u20 next season and impress in the sub-academy.

Liam Turner, is a under-19 and an undersized outside back who will be moving position at irish u20 and professional level. He will need to prove himself in the sub-academy before getting an academy place.

Being a senior cup winning captain does not mean you should get an academy place out of school.

Hawkshaw barely played in the cup this season due to injury, is rumoured to be moving position to centre. He could easily join the academy proper post interpros like Jordan Larmour did two seasons ago.

Wycherley is a munster player, so no. Leinster had a LH prop play Ireland u19's and both Milne and Aungier could potentially move there.

seliot900

Dubinusa wrote: »

I think that Charlie Ryan will feel hard done by. Surprised he wasn't offered a spot. Could see him at another province? Same with Daly. Leinster letting a lot of potential talent slip thru the cracks.

Why? He was 4th choice behind two other leinster locks.. he has another season to prove himself, he needs to improve to get an academy place IMO. He is big but needs a lot of work.

seliot900

FrannoFan wrote: »

Some of those year ones are straight from schools aren't they?
Penny
Milne
Is baird as well?

Penny, Baird and Milne straight from school.

Recent other joiners straight from school, Jack Aungier, Hugh O'Sullivan, Jack Kelly, Jordan Larmour.

seliot900

Dubinusa wrote: »

I really liked Keenan. I think he'll make it. Not sure about Kelly. C.O.B imo will not make a senior contract and J.O.B is with the 7's.
A lot of guys moving on. It's a shame really.
Surprised that nobody has offered Rock a spot.

COB almost certainly will get a dev contract unless he completely falls apart.

seliot900

ArmchairQB wrote: »

Not a fan of lads been given academy spots straight out of school would prefer they earned it playing with a club or thru Irish 20s performances. hasn't done Aungier or Dardis or any of the recent appointments any good at all. James Ryan didnt even get it straight from school and Ryan Baird is no James Ryan at same stage of his development. Not sure why you think Hawkshaw was a shoe in? Has been injury prone and need to prove himself to be better than whats there at the moment not sure he is pro material to be honest. Turner has potential if he joins a decent club and gerts a chance to impress have talked about Ryan before he is young and still has a chance

Bit early to say that on Aungier..

Didn't harm Larmour or Leavy.

Baird had a better 6th year than Ryan did.

seliot900

Squidgy Black wrote: »

I'd say Ryan will be offered sub-academy with the view of adding him in next year. Similar to his brother.

There's only so many full academy spots that can be awarded. We're lucky in a sense that we'd a fair few promoted to the seniors and a few leavers that we were able to give a couple players full spots straight out of school, but it's not the norm.

Charlie Ryan isn't related to James afaik.

David Ryan is and will likely be in the sub academy.

seliot900

arsebiscuits1 wrote: »

There's only so many spots available

It's the nature of professional sport. There is no fool proof way to ensure that those you're selecting will go on to fulfil their potential.

While you say they're letting potential talent slip through, I look at who they're nurturing to succeed with great enthusiasm

People go on about Tom Farrell a lot and how Leinster released him. But look at how many academy players younger than him have been internationally capped since he was released.

Centres? Ringrose(14) and ROL(1)

they chose Daly over him, which is bizarre.

Squidgy Black

seliot900 wrote: »

Charlie Ryan isn't related to James afaik.

David Ryan is and will likely be in the sub academy.

Ah yeah my bad

RockBoysarewii

Does anyone know Leinsters new year ones physical stats?

seliot900

RockBoysarewii wrote: »

Does anyone know Leinsters new year ones physical stats?

Approx:
Milne - 6'0 115kg
Dunne - 6'7 110kg
Baird - 6'6 105kg
Penny - 6'0 95kg
Patterson - 5'7 80kg
Byrne - 6'1 88kg
Silvester - 5'11 81kg
O'Sullivan - 6'0 85kg

Dubinusa

Any news? No updates on the provinces websites.
It's getting late and with preseason about to kick off it's strange that no panels have been announced.

seliot900

Leinster website has created profiles for academy players but no stats yet.

Interestingly of the 7 forwards in the leinster academy, 5 went to St. Michaels.

Ronan Kelleher(Hooker)
Oisin Dowling(Blindside/Lock)
Jack Dunne(Lock)
Ryan Baird(Lock)
Scott Penny(Openside)

seliot900

Top Sub academy prospects in Leinster:

Donnacha Mescal(Prop/Blackrock-North Kildare)
Niall McEniff(Prop/St. Marys)
Daragh Bolger(Prop/Clontarf RFC)
Thomas Clarkson(Prop/Blackrock)
Sean Molony(Hooker/Blackrock)
Declan Adamson(Hooker/Clontarf RFC)
Ethan Baxter(Hooker/St. Gerards)
Charles Ryan(Lock/Blackrock)
Cian Prendergast(Lock/Newbridge)
Rudhan Byron(Backrow/Belvedere)
Michael McGagh(Backrow/Blackrock)
Dan O'Donovan(Backrow/St. Michaels)
Rueban Pim(Backrow/Kilkenny)
Martin Moloney(Backrow/Athy RFC)
Cormac Foley(Scrumhalf/St. Gerards)
Conor Kelly(Outhalf/CC Roscrea)
David Hawkshaw(Outhalf-Centre/Belvedere)
David Ryan(Centre/St. Michaels)
Brian O'Donnell(Centre/Gonzaga)
Liam Turner(Back Three/Blackrock)

Chico Flores

Munster Academy

Year 1: Thomas Ahern (Lock/Waterpark), Diarmuid Barron (Hooker/Garryowen), Jack Daly (Back-row/Garryowen), Ben Healy (Out-half/Glenstal), James French (Prop/UCC), Sean French (Centre/PBC), Eoghan Clarke (Hooker/Wanderers), Jonathan Wren (Back three/PBC).

Year 2: Craig Casey (Scrumhalf/Shannon), Liam Coombes (Back three/Garryowen), Keynon Knox (Prop/UL Bohs), James McCarthy (Fullback/UL Bohs), Alex McHenry (Centre/Cork Con), Matt More (Centre/Garryowen), Jack O’Sullivan (Back Row/UCC), Jack Stafford (Scrumhalf/Shannon), Alan Tynan (Full-back/Young Munster).

Year 3: Gavin Coombes (Backrow/Young Munster), Shane Daly (Centre/Cork Con), Sean O’Connor (Lock/Garryowen)

FrannoFan

Chico Flores wrote: »

Munster Academy

Year 1: Thomas Ahern (Lock/Waterpark), Diarmuid Barron (Hooker/Garryowen), Jack Daly (Back-row/Garryowen), Ben Healy (Out-half/Glenstal), James French (Prop/UCC), Sean French (Centre/PBC), Eoghan Clarke (Hooker/Wanderers), Jonathan Wren (Back three/PBC).

Year 2: Craig Casey (Scrumhalf/Shannon), Liam Coombes (Back three/Garryowen), Keynon Knox (Prop/UL Bohs), James McCarthy (Fullback/UL Bohs), Alex McHenry (Centre/Cork Con), Matt More (Centre/Garryowen), Jack O’Sullivan (Back Row/UCC), Jack Stafford (Scrumhalf/Shannon), Alan Tynan (Full-back/Young Munster).

Year 3: Gavin Coombes (Backrow/Young Munster), Shane Daly (Centre/Cork Con), Sean O’Connor (Lock/Garryowen)

Good to see Clarke picked up. Surprised leinster didn't want him

French straight out of school? He is highly rated I gather. Anyone know much about him? Big was the impression I got

Quin_Dub

FrannoFan wrote: »

Good to see Clarke picked up. Surprised leinster didn't want him

French straight out of school? He is highly rated I gather. Anyone know much about him? Big was the impression I got

Thomas Ahern as well - just coming out of U18 Club Rugby and straight into the Academy.. That's pretty impressive.

The Lost Sheep

Quin_Dub wrote: »

Thomas Ahern as well - just coming out of U18 Club Rugby and straight into the Academy.. That's pretty impressive.

Saw him play quite a bit with Dungarvan and Waterpark. Seriously good player.

Heymans

Chico Flores wrote: »

Munster Academy

Year 1: Thomas Ahern (Lock/Waterpark), Diarmuid Barron (Hooker/Garryowen), Jack Daly (Back-row/Garryowen), Ben Healy (Out-half/Glenstal), James French (Prop/UCC), Sean French (Centre/PBC), Eoghan Clarke (Hooker/Wanderers), Jonathan Wren (Back three/PBC).

Year 2: Craig Casey (Scrumhalf/Shannon), Liam Coombes (Back three/Garryowen), Keynon Knox (Prop/UL Bohs), James McCarthy (Fullback/UL Bohs), Alex McHenry (Centre/Cork Con), Matt More (Centre/Garryowen), Jack O’Sullivan (Back Row/UCC), Jack Stafford (Scrumhalf/Shannon), Alan Tynan (Full-back/Young Munster).

Year 3: Gavin Coombes (Backrow/Young Munster), Shane Daly (Centre/Cork Con), Sean O’Connor (Lock/Garryowen)

No Whycherly - surprised Leinster haven't snapped him up given his participation in Ireland U19 and the fact that we are light onlooseheads in the squad and academy.

arsebiscuits1

Heymans wrote: »

No Whycherly - surprised Leinster haven't snapped him up given his participation in Ireland U19 and the fact that we are light onlooseheads in the squad and academy.

Leinster have 4 senior looseheads and Bent who can cover if needs be.

There are one or 2 LH prospects in sub academy and underage who should be aiming for academy next season

Heymans

arsebiscuits1 wrote: »

Leinster have 4 senior looseheads and Bent who can cover if needs be.

There are one or 2 LH prospects in sub academy and underage who should be aiming for academy next season

Senior squad Looseheads:
Cian Healy
Jack McGrath
Ed Byrne
Peter Dooley


Potential Sub Academy Loosheads:
Donncha Mescal
Niall McEniff


Out of that group I would rate Wyncherly higher than the 2 sub academy prospects certainly going by his Cup performances the last 2 years. Didn't see him play for the U19's but he was chosen ahead of those 2 so I would imagine he is rated higher by the Irish selectors also.

Of the 4 Senior Looseheads on the books I would rate only 2 of them international level - McGRath and Healy. The other 2 are average Pro14 standard Looseheads at bestbut can do a job if called upon.

I would prefer that we have new potential future international looseheads on our books for the future as both HEaly and McGrath are getting on in years. Supply for the future.

academyfan0

Heymans wrote: »

No Whycherly - surprised Leinster haven't snapped him up given his participation in Ireland U19 and the fact that we are light onlooseheads in the squad and academy.


Senior squad Looseheads:
Cian Healy
Jack McGrath
Ed Byrne
Peter Dooley


Potential Sub Academy Loosheads:
Donncha Mescal
Niall McEniff


Out of that group I would rate Wyncherly higher than the 2 sub academy prospects certainly going by his Cup performances the last 2 years. Didn't see him play for the U19's but he was chosen ahead of those 2 so I would imagine he is rated higher by the Irish selectors also.

Of the 4 Senior Looseheads on the books I would rate only 2 of them international level - McGRath and Healy. The other 2 are average Pro14 standard Looseheads at bestbut can do a job if called upon.

I would prefer that we have new potential future international looseheads on our books for the future as both HEaly and McGrath are getting on in years. Supply for the future.

Josh is a Munster player and has no desire to play for Leinster, so it's not really a case of Leinster snapping him up or not.

Josh has chosen to join the Munster sub academy.

Interesting that you'd rate Josh ahead of Dooley and E Byrne, both who had as good or better underage careers and are still young for props and have good senior experience.

Dbu

academyfan0 wrote: »

Josh is a Munster player and has no desire to play for Leinster, so it's not really a case of Leinster snapping him up or not.

Josh has chosen to join the Munster sub academy.

Interesting that you'd rate Josh ahead of Dooley and E Byrne, both who had as good or better underage careers and are still young for props and have good senior experience.

Is there a Munster sub academy list of names?