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People who claim to be 'spiritual'

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    #122
    Scanlas The 2nd
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 3,144 ✭✭✭Scanlas The 2nd


    smash wrote: »
    A Lollypop stick, bit of glue and 3 tooth picks. Easy!

    Make a fork like the one in your kitchen drawer.


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    #123
    smash
    Closed Accounts Posts: 34,809 ✭✭✭✭smash


    Scanlas The 2nd wrote: »

    Make a fork like the one in your kitchen drawer.
    Make a mold and pour in some hot metal.


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    #124
    Scanlas The 2nd
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 3,144 ✭✭✭Scanlas The 2nd


    smash wrote: »
    Make a mold and pour in some hot metal.

    Can you make a mold the exact size and can you get the right metal?


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    #125
    smash
    Closed Accounts Posts: 34,809 ✭✭✭✭smash


    Scanlas The 2nd wrote: »

    Can you make a mold the exact size and can you get the right metal?
    You can make a mold whatever size you want, and yes you can get the metal. Of all things you chose a fork. They're not rocket science!


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    #126
    Scanlas The 2nd
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 3,144 ✭✭✭Scanlas The 2nd


    smash wrote: »
    You can make a mold whatever size you want, and yes you can get the metal. Of all things you chose a fork. They're not rocket science!

    Of course a mould can be made but how is it made? If someone told me to make a mold without anyone's helps or they'd kill me I still couldn't do it. I assume items some sort of rubber, that's all I know. I wouldn't know how to make rubber.


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    #127
    flutterflye
    Registered Users Posts: 3,538 ✭✭✭flutterflye


    lounakin wrote: »
    You think there's a person somewhere who can come up with a business plan for a new phone, find the money, then develop the software, then go to the lab and make the various materials for the phone, plastic, metal, rubber etc, then assemble it, design the interface etc?

    Yes.


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    #128
    indough
    Registered Users Posts: 2,857 ✭✭✭indough


    flutterflye wrote: »
    Yes.

    yeah but, anyone except tony stark?


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    #129
    smash
    Closed Accounts Posts: 34,809 ✭✭✭✭smash


    indough wrote: »

    yeah but, anyone except tony stark?
    Inspector gadget!


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    #130
    ScumLord
    Registered Users Posts: 28,789 ✭✭✭✭ScumLord


    flutterflye wrote: »
    I was with you there until your last line.
    I'm fairly sure there is.
    What do you mean?!
    One person couldn't design, source and then go onto manufacture a smart phone. One person couldn't even just do the manufacturing. The machines involved are too complicated, you need to have a collage degree just to have the skills to do 1% of the work. A person wouldn't have the time or space in their heads for all the knowledge they'd need to pull it off.


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    #131
    Knasher
    Registered Users Posts: 2,370 ✭✭✭Knasher


    smash wrote: »
    You can make a mold whatever size you want, and yes you can get the metal. Of all things you chose a fork. They're not rocket science!
    There was an essay written in 1953 called I, Pencil which went over the process involved in making a pencil to illustrate the point that no one person has all the expertise necessary to make even the most simple of objects. Making a fork when you have the mold and the metal and the means of heating the metal in order to pour it is easy, getting to that point requires a lot more expertise though.


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    #132
    indough
    Registered Users Posts: 2,857 ✭✭✭indough


    you would also need to extract the metal from its natural form and build the tools required to do that, if we are doing this properly


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    #133
    TheUsual
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,288 ✭✭✭TheUsual


    ScumLord wrote: »
    you need to have a collage degree just to have the skills to do 1% of the work.

    Why is everyone getting Collage Degrees now, am I missing out something big by not having one ?


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    #134
    midlandsmissus
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 3,838 ✭✭✭midlandsmissus


    Sleepy wrote: »
    Exactly.

    TBH, I don't care if my opinions on religion are considered obnoxious, it's a far more offensive thing to consider religion as being worthy of respect imo. Me being obnoxious causes the world very little harm. Self-delusion on such a grand scale as we see with religious beliefs, whether organised or not, in the kindest light possible is a vast misallocation of human potential. In harsher light, it's been the cause of wars, genocide, the hoarding of wealth that could end world hunger, etc. etc. etc.

    eeemmmmmm.....we're talking on this thread about people who dont believe in any organised religion, and are spiritual in their own way.


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    #135
    lounakin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 699 ✭✭✭lounakin


    TheUsual wrote: »
    Why is everyone getting Collage Degrees now, am I missing out something big by not having one ?
    You don't need a collage degree, all you need to do is prove that with a magazine and a bit of glue you can produce a deadly collage :)


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    #136
    kincsem
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,013 ✭✭✭kincsem


    Spiritual: someone who reads all those books about angels.


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    #137
    endacl
    Registered Users Posts: 22,260 ✭✭✭✭endacl


    Scanlas The 2nd wrote: »

    It means you can be spiritual through removing thought. Thought is probably the biggest barrier to being spiritual. You lose connection to the awareness behind your thoughts which is a deeply peaceful place to allow your focus to be. Your worries suddenly seem insignificant when you get to that space. "Me" doesn't exist in that space.
    A type of induced psychosis? No thanks.


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    #138
    Scanlas The 2nd
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 3,144 ✭✭✭Scanlas The 2nd


    endacl wrote: »
    A type of induced psychosis? No thanks.

    There's a good chance you've felt it before. Lots of people feel present looking up at the stars on a clear peaceful night.


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    #139
    endacl
    Registered Users Posts: 22,260 ✭✭✭✭endacl


    Scanlas The 2nd wrote: »
    There's a good chance you've felt it before. Lots of people feel present looking up at the stars on a clear peaceful night.
    I felt present all right. Due to the fact that I was there. Funnily enough, alone looking at stars on a clear peaceful night is a scenario I'm quite fond of. Generally with a couple of moderately powerful telescopes. I've no problem with a sense of wonder.

    I become more than mildly skeptical, however, when there's an expectation that I'll experience an ineffable wonder at the sights I regularly observe. The effable ones are wonderful enough one their own. I little understanding goes a long way to addressing 'spirituality'.

    :)


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    #140
    TheUsual
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,288 ✭✭✭TheUsual


    lounakin wrote: »
    You don't need a collage degree, all you need to do is prove that with a magazine and a bit of glue you can produce a deadly collage :)

    Errr ... used loads of Superglue by mistake, am waiting in A&E for a nurse right now.

    Maybe a degree is the way to go. This collage business is tricky stuff.


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    #141
    Roisy7
    Closed Accounts Posts: 548 ✭✭✭Roisy7


    ScumLord wrote: »
    Humans are adept at making things understandable for our brains. I don't think it's a case of we don't or can't understand it's just that we don't know yet, but we have a notion of what's going on. At a species level I think we can understand everything, on an individual level it's harder because we have limited time but the other great thing about human culture is we don't all have to understand everything, we can specialise in specific areas and share that knowledge. So even though I don't know how to make a smart phone I still have one even though it's likely there isn't even one person on the planet that knows how to make a whole smart phone..


    Hmmm but as a whole species we haven't decided on who created us or why we're here. The concept of the sublime is just that. That our consciousness when failing to comprehend something gives us a glimpse of something otherworldy.

    Second you on the smart phone thing though, if people were all like me we'd never have progressed beyond the rocks and berries phase :D


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    #142
    Maximus Alexander
    Registered Users Posts: 13,080 ✭✭✭✭Maximus Alexander


    ScumLord wrote: »
    One person couldn't design, source and then go onto manufacture a smart phone. One person couldn't even just do the manufacturing. The machines involved are too complicated, you need to have a collage degree just to have the skills to do 1% of the work. A person wouldn't have the time or space in their heads for all the knowledge they'd need to pull it off.

    The technology in a smart phone is actually deceptively simple. It's the miniaturisation that is difficult.

    It's very much possible for one person to design every single component and piece of software for a smartphone. However, it would take a really long time and you wouldn't be able to manufacture it.

    If you had enough money and time you could single handedly make a really large version though. One that functioned the exact same way but was the size of a football field. ;)


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    #143
    Scanlas The 2nd
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 3,144 ✭✭✭Scanlas The 2nd


    Maximus Alexander wrote: »

    The technology in a smart phone is actually deceptively simple. It's the miniaturisation that is difficult.

    It's very much possible for one person to design every single component and piece of software for a smartphone. However, it would take a really long time and you wouldn't be able to manufacture it.

    If you had enough money and time you could single handedly make a really large version though. One that functioned the exact same way but was the size of a football field. ;)

    If you had enough time could you make one from scratch without any help. This means you'd have to extract the materials needed from te earth yourself. You would have to create all tools needed. No one on the planet could do that.


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    #144
    Maximus Alexander
    Registered Users Posts: 13,080 ✭✭✭✭Maximus Alexander


    Scanlas The 2nd wrote: »
    If you had enough time could you make one from scratch without any help. This means you'd have to extract the materials needed from te earth yourself. You would have to create all tools needed. No one on the planet could do that.

    Sure, maybe I expressed myself poorly.

    It's not practical for any one man to ever create a smart phone from scratch.

    What I was challenging was the notion you seemed to be putting forth, that no one person could possess the knowledge to create one from scratch. I don't think that's true.

    In fact, I think many such people exist right now.


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    #145
    Crooked Jack
    Registered Users Posts: 5,678 ✭✭✭Crooked Jack


    I dont buy into any one religion but I certainly don't believe that humans are the be all and end all of creation. The idea of a God or creator or catalyst of some sort makes sense to me. That doesn't however mean I have any trouble accepting scientific theories or discoveries, I can never quite understand how people think the two cant coexist.
    Organised religions however seem very man made and have a lot of rules set down by man not God, whatever God is. Im not being "wishy-washy" or "covering my arse," I firmly believe something started all this I just don't accept that any one religion has all the answers, or any of the answers.
    You could say I'm spiritual in a sense but I wouldn't use the term myself because as somebody pointed out earlier it gives the impression of being someone who sits around reading books about angels, talking to Gaia or spends their weekends as a Wiccan.


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    #146
    johnwest288
    Registered Users Posts: 665 ✭✭✭johnwest288


    Be carefull what you type onto boards. this could be used in evidence at the pearly gates:eek:


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    #147
    Crooked Jack
    Registered Users Posts: 5,678 ✭✭✭Crooked Jack


    johnwest288 wrote: »
    Be carefull what you type onto boards. this could be used in evidence at the pearly gates:eek:

    It's alright, I've covered my arse, bless myself passing the church every morning. It's like a fucking press pass


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    #148
    Red21
    Closed Accounts Posts: 594 ✭✭✭Red21


    lazygal wrote: »
    Are they just kidding themselves? Anyone I know who says they aren't religious 'But I'm a very spiritual person' seems to think its a kind of a get out of jail free card for rejecting religion. Like, they don't want to be associated with an organised religion, but want to feel like there's something more to life. Is it not just wishy-washy and make-up? Seems like its covering your arse just in case.
    Are you genuinely inquiring about something? because it seems like you already know and are just trying to make some half-assed attack on people who don't share your outlook.
    Spirituality is a very broad term, would you not consider asking a peson who describes themselves as "spiritual" a few more questions before you presume to know what they're thinking.


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    #149
    lounakin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 699 ✭✭✭lounakin


    Maximus Alexander wrote: »
    Sure, maybe I expressed myself poorly.

    It's not practical for any one man to ever create a smart phone from scratch.

    What I was challenging was the notion you seemed to be putting forth, that no one person could possess the knowledge to create one from scratch. I don't think that's true.

    In fact, I think many such people exist right now.
    We were clearly talking about making the phone, not having the knowledge to make it.


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    #150
    Maximus Alexander
    Registered Users Posts: 13,080 ✭✭✭✭Maximus Alexander


    lounakin wrote: »
    We were clearly talking about making the phone, not having the knowledge to make it.

    No, it wasn't that clear:
    it's likely there isn't even one person on the planet that knows how to make a whole smart phone..


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    #151
    nozzferrahhtoo
    Registered Users Posts: 9,340 ✭✭✭nozzferrahhtoo


    lazygal wrote: »
    Are they just kidding themselves? Anyone I know who says they aren't religious 'But I'm a very spiritual person' seems to think its a kind of a get out of jail free card for rejecting religion. Like, they don't want to be associated with an organised religion, but want to feel like there's something more to life. Is it not just wishy-washy and make-up? Seems like its covering your arse just in case.

    I have a lot of affinity for your impressions here and share many of them but I would be wary about stroking the brush stroke too wide. Often a lot of the issue is a linguistic one for example. People simply have no word better than "spiritual" to communicate what they are saying so they fall back on that word despite the baggage it brings.

    I think many people who try to explore the human condition in ways above and beyond that experienced by your average joe on the street are likely to consider themselves "Spiritual". Mindfullness Meditation such as Vipassana is one example of this but there are many more.

    An exploration of what it "means" to be human... what our moral and ethical concerns are to our fellow man, animal and our planet... what it means to be "happy" and "content" and "fulfilled".... whether those concepts always require input such as having ones favorite ice cream on ones lips when one wants or whether it is possible to be happy and content before any such input.... and exploring our connection as humans to our environment and planet and trying to see ourselves as part of the bigger picture rather than a sole ego and individual.... and an exploration of the ways and methods of training our moment to moment awareness and maybe even influencing or perturbing it consciously.....

    ... all these things I think fall under the category of "Spiritual" for many people and we do not really have other words for it that communicate what we want to communicate when talking about them.

    So I do have some sympathy for atheists and others who feel compelled to use the phrase "Spiritual but not religious" to describe where they are at. I feel in many ways their hands, and mine, are tied linguistically to have to make some concession to words like that.


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