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People who claim to be 'spiritual'

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    #32
    professore
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,857 ✭✭✭professore


    seamus wrote: »
    You misunderstand science. Science finds evidence and then draws conclusions. It doesn't come to conclusions and then look for evidence.

    In fact doing the latter will result in your science being binned and laughed at. Which is why people who know science, laugh at religions who try to be scientific about it.

    I love this new-agey "science is just another kind of faith", nonsense. First learn what science is before you call it a faith.

    You got there before me.


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    #33
    Priori
    Closed Accounts Posts: 421 ✭✭Priori


    Doctor DooM wrote: »
    Actually, that's the exact opposite of the scientific method.

    "Actually". :rolleyes:

    Have you read Thomas Kuhn's SSR? Or studied any of the philosophy of science? I'm sorry, but what you are prepared, in advance, to accept as evidence counts greatly towards what eventually becomes accepted as fact.


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    #34
    Priori
    Closed Accounts Posts: 421 ✭✭Priori


    seamus wrote:
    I love this new-agey "science is just another kind of faith", nonsense.

    Not me.


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    #35
    professore
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,857 ✭✭✭professore


    Madam_X wrote: »
    Exactly. I don't believe in god in the traditional sense but I still wonder whether there is other stuff going on out there beyond the realm we occupy. Sometimes there are patterns that are too regular and consistent to be coincidence.

    So too do any scientists worth their salt. Then they sit down and work out how to measure the odds of something being a coincidence or not. If you flip a coin 3 times and get 3 heads then it's probably a coincidence. Flip it 1000 times and get 1000 heads and it's far less likely to be a coincidence (still possible though !!!)


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    #36
    Priori
    Closed Accounts Posts: 421 ✭✭Priori


    professore wrote:
    By the way you obviously don't understand the scientific method if you use the word "unquestioningly" in the same sentence.

    Very sound reasoning. Are you claiming that "unquestioningly" isn't a real word?


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    #37
    lounakin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 699 ✭✭✭lounakin


    Since when is the concept of life, death, eternity etc the property of religion? You'd have to be incredibly narrow-minded and/or have been 'pounded with religion' like another poster said to believe that. Anyone can be inclined to believe in something more than the eye can meet, even without the influence of religion.


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    #38
    charlemont
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,725 ✭✭✭charlemont


    Lelantos wrote: »
    Funnily enough, without taking the teachings of other human beings thru the years you would have no evidence or belief in your god as there is no other frame of reference for his existence.


    Our existence is enough proof for me, Intelligence, Animals etc, The way atoms and all that other science stuff works is more proof for me..Do I know why we're here, No, But we are here and like everything else there must be a reason.

    Some of these religious church people are basically faking it, They are only capable of thinking the same as anyone else. But they preach a lot of junk based on other peoples writings etc..


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    #39
    Doctor DooM
    Moderators, Music Moderators Posts: 25,868 Mod ✭✭✭✭Doctor DooM


    Priori wrote: »
    "Actually". :rolleyes:

    Have you read Thomas Kuhn's SSR? Or studied any of the philosophy of science? I'm sorry, but what you are prepared, in advance, to accept as evidence counts greatly towards what eventually becomes accepted as fact.

    Nah, I just did science in college.


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    #40
    Maximus Alexander
    Registered Users Posts: 13,080 ✭✭✭✭Maximus Alexander


    Madam_X wrote: »
    Exactly. I don't believe in god in the traditional sense but I still wonder whether there is other stuff going on out there beyond the realm we occupy. Sometimes there are patterns that are too regular and consistent to be coincidence.

    I don't pretend to have all the answers, but it's worth remembering that the human brain is wired to pull patterns out of noise.

    That's the reason this looks to us like a face, when objectively it looks nothing like a face.


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    #41
    Zebra3
    Registered Users Posts: 13,859 ✭✭✭✭Zebra3


    lazygal wrote: »
    Are they just kidding themselves? Anyone I know who says they aren't religious 'But I'm a very spiritual person' seems to think its a kind of a get out of jail free card for rejecting religion. Like, they don't want to be associated with an organised religion, but want to feel like there's something more to life. Is it not just wishy-washy and make-up? Seems like its covering your arse just in case.

    It's a snobbish way of saying "I'm too good for organised cults and to be an atheist".


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    #42
    FairytaleGirl
    Closed Accounts Posts: 663 ✭✭✭FairytaleGirl


    I consider myself spiritual in that I believe God and the man made Instuition of the Catholic Church are two very separate and different things.

    I believe there is life after death, and that praying and talking to God works. But when other comes.to all these rules in the bible I just disagree. I mean God is all forgiving and loves all his children etc so how can his teachings be interpreted by certain people to be exclusive, discriminatory, judgmental etc??

    I have a personal relationship with my God. Church doesn't come into it, I lead a good life, I am a good person, and I reckon that means more to God than someone who's up kissing the altar every week but pickets gay pride or batters their wife/kids every weekend.


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    #43
    Da Shins Kelly
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,048 ✭✭✭Da Shins Kelly


    Spiritual just makes me think they're people who maybe believe that there's something more, but prefer to keep it to themselves rather than going on about it and adhering to the rules and regulations of organised religion. Nothing wrong with that, and I don't really understand why anyone cares.


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    #44
    Ush1
    Registered Users Posts: 11,465 ✭✭✭✭Ush1


    Priori wrote: »
    It's funny how some people assume that anybody who believes in a higher power is some sense brainwashed. Precisely the same thing can be said of those that unquestioningly take on board the unproven assumptions from which naturalism and scientism spring. What you consider 'evidence' is very much dependent upon what you initially set out to search for.

    What unproven assumptions has scientism sprung from?

    Science works, that we know. Planes fly, cars go, computers compute, etc...


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    #45
    smurgen
    Registered Users Posts: 6,933 ✭✭✭smurgen


    Madam_X wrote: »
    Exactly. I don't believe in god in the traditional sense but I still wonder whether there is other stuff going on out there beyond the realm we occupy. Sometimes there are patterns that are too regular and consistent to be coincidence.

    It's weird,i'm not religious but I would consider myself spiritual. I would also put my faith in science all the time to explain things but for some reason this feeling of something else keeps coming over me. A good example ; I was out running the other night late was running by the lake and stopped to look at the mountains,stars etc. when I felt a complete sense of peacefullness and safety around me. Dunno why. I mean hear I am in a strange country out in an isolated area with no one to help me if anything goes wrong and yet i never feel so secure or comfortable in my life. The feeling of isolation and insignificance was reassuring for some reason.I can't explain it. That to me is what I mean when I say i'm spiritual, I dunno maby it's the wrong definition of the word Maby the word spiritual for other people creates images of tarrot card readers or something but this is what it means for me.


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    #46
    flutterflye
    Registered Users Posts: 3,538 ✭✭✭flutterflye


    I've tried to understand what spirituality is tons of times.
    What is it? What does it mean?
    Is it not believing in any set thing, but yet believing there is 'something'? Because that's being agnostic.
    Is it all the crystals and reiki crap?
    I just don't understand what it's supposed to mean to be spiritual.


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    #47
    flutterflye
    Registered Users Posts: 3,538 ✭✭✭flutterflye


    smurgen wrote: »
    It's weird,i'm not religious but I would consider myself spiritual. I would also put my faith in science all the time to explain things but for some reason this feeling of something else keeps coming over me. A good example ; I was out running the other night late was running by the lake and stopped to look at the mountains,stars etc. when I felt a complete sense of peacefullness and safety around me. Dunno why. I mean hear I am in a strange country out in an isolated area with no one to help me if anything goes wrong and yet i never feel so secure or comfortable in my life. The feeling of isolation and insignificance was reassuring for some reason.I can't explain it. That to me is what I mean when I say i'm spiritual, I dunno maby it's the wrong definition of the word Maby the word spiritual for other people creates images of tarrot card readers or something but this is what it means for me.

    What you say you believe spiritality to be - I've felt that a million times - does this mean I've been spiritual all these years and just never knew?! :eek:


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    #48
    aujopimur
    Registered Users Posts: 3,953 ✭✭✭aujopimur


    I was at a small non religious memorial service recently, it's normally sad but it's ok, this year some weirdo/hippy decided to put some candles and tree branches in the middle of the room, and asked people to dance around them, what a load of bollox.


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    #49
    Sleepy
    Registered Users Posts: 24,176 ✭✭✭✭Sleepy


    Frederica Beauregard wrote: »
    That's not what you said in your first post. We're not talking about religion or being religious and neither were you.

    You inferred that people who say they were spiritual, were "being stupid" - reread your post if you need clarification of what you typed.
    A belief in a deity is stupid.

    Having the sense to reject organised religion yet still claim a belief in "spirituality" or some kind of deity is imo, knowingly being stupid: they've been able to make the mental leap that indicates their logical mind isn't incapable of independent thought but are emotionally unwilling to accept reality.


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    #50
    Sleepy
    Registered Users Posts: 24,176 ✭✭✭✭Sleepy


    smurgen wrote: »
    It's weird,i'm not religious but I would consider myself spiritual. I would also put my faith in science all the time to explain things but for some reason this feeling of something else keeps coming over me. A good example ; I was out running the other night late was running by the lake and stopped to look at the mountains,stars etc. when I felt a complete sense of peacefullness and safety around me. Dunno why. I mean hear I am in a strange country out in an isolated area with no one to help me if anything goes wrong and yet i never feel so secure or comfortable in my life. The feeling of isolation and insignificance was reassuring for some reason.I can't explain it. That to me is what I mean when I say i'm spiritual, I dunno maby it's the wrong definition of the word Maby the word spiritual for other people creates images of tarrot card readers or something but this is what it means for me.
    It's called an exercise induced endorphin rush.


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    #51
    lounakin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 699 ✭✭✭lounakin


    flutterflye wrote: »
    I've tried to understand what spirituality is tons of times.
    What is it? What does it mean?
    Is it not believing in any set thing, but yet believing there is 'something'? Because that's being agnostic.
    Is it all the crystals and reiki crap?
    I just don't understand what it's supposed to mean to be spiritual.
    Look it up?!


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    #52
    Grayson
    Registered Users Posts: 16,161 ✭✭✭✭Grayson


    Nearly everyone in this country was brought up within an organised religion. The majority would be catholic, but there are others.

    I can't get people who are "spiritual" or converts. They managed to look at their own original religion and think that something didn't add up, so they went and picked another load of bollocks to follow instead.

    And if anyone them say that it just feels right, well a C cup feels right to me. Doesn't mean I'm going to make it a religion. (OK, I'm kinda lying there. I like pretty much all boobies).


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    #53
    flutterflye
    Registered Users Posts: 3,538 ✭✭✭flutterflye


    lounakin wrote: »
    Look it up?!

    I have done - loads of times - I don't get it!


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    #54
    flutterflye
    Registered Users Posts: 3,538 ✭✭✭flutterflye


    Sleepy wrote: »
    It's called an exercise induced endorphin rush.

    No, you get that feeling with no exercise too.
    It goes beyond just thinking 'oh look, what a nice view' - it's like this almost overwhelming awe of everything - The earth and everything on it - the entire universe - how there is a flow and a rhythm to it all etc...
    It's really peaceful knowing you are a part of it all - you belong.


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    #55
    Frederica Beauregard
    Closed Accounts Posts: 25 ✭Frederica Beauregard


    Sleepy wrote: »
    A belief in a deity is stupid.

    Having the sense to reject organised religion yet still claim a belief in "spirituality" or some kind of deity is imo, knowingly being stupid: they've been able to make the mental leap that indicates their logical mind isn't incapable of independent thought but are emotionally unwilling to accept reality.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deity

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spirituality
    Every one who is seriously involved in the pursuit of science becomes convinced that a spirit is manifest in the laws of the Universe-a spirit vastly superior to that of man, and one in the face of which we with our modest powers must feel humble -- Einstein (The Man, not the Dog.


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    #56
    Spiritual
    Closed Accounts Posts: 491 ✭✭Spiritual


    I am Spiritual.


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    #57
    lounakin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 699 ✭✭✭lounakin


    flutterflye wrote: »
    I have done - loads of times - I don't get it!
    It just means that you're opened to things that aren't necessarily apparent or in your face. We all have the faculty to imagine what we cannot see, and we even have concepts (eternity, perfectness etc...) in us that do not seem to exist. Everything that goes on around us in nature has an obvious and a not so obvious part. Science constantly shows us how amazing life is and how no matter how long we've been here there's always more to discover and amaze. I would say spirituality is all around us.


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    #58
    flutterflye
    Registered Users Posts: 3,538 ✭✭✭flutterflye


    lounakin wrote: »
    It just means that you're opened to things that aren't necessarily apparent or in your face. We all have the faculty to imagine what we cannot see, and we even have concepts (eternity, perfectness etc...) in us that do not seem to exist. Everything that goes on around us in nature has an obvious and a not so obvious part. Science constantly shows us how amazing life is and how no matter how long we've been here there's always more to discover and amaze. I would say spirituality is all around us.

    Well I'm not spiritual then. :/ I think.
    I wouldn't be open to the idea of things that don't exist.


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    #59
    ScumLord
    Registered Users Posts: 28,789 ✭✭✭✭ScumLord


    I want to believe that god cares about me so that I can feel special inside my own head, but I don't feel like following any of the rules of religions as it's time consuming and means I would have to sacrifice indulgences. The good thing about spirituality is I can make up rules and morals to suit my own life style or to suit the immediate social circle I'm in, having flexible morals means I can always feel good about myself. Self proclaimed/regimented belief systems don't make a mockery out of religion or morals it's a way of the future.


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    #60
    Maximus Alexander
    Registered Users Posts: 13,080 ✭✭✭✭Maximus Alexander


    flutterflye wrote: »
    No, you get that feeling with no exercise too.
    It goes beyond just thinking 'oh look, what a nice view' - it's like this almost overwhelming awe of everything - The earth and everything on it - the entire universe - how there is a flow and a rhythm to it all etc...
    It's really peaceful knowing you are a part of it all - you belong.

    I have had this feeling, but only a handful of times, and I wish I could call it up on demand.


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    #61
    smurgen
    Registered Users Posts: 6,933 ✭✭✭smurgen


    Sleepy wrote: »
    It's called an exercise induced endorphin rush.


    I wonder why i nere got one in my many hours in the gym so?


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