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Not baptising your child - what are the practical disadvantages in Ireland?

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    #32
    robindch
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 24,401 Mod ✭✭✭✭robindch


    daheff wrote: »
    Just with respect to ET schools (and i mean this in no way racist) You have a number of foreign nationals children attending these schools (as quite a few are not RCC it is seen as the best option).
    Now because quite a few of these may have poor english skills, you will find that this is holding back the class for the first couple of years until the majority are better able to speak/communicate in english.
    I'm not sure what the ET school is like in your area, but in the ET school in South Dublin which my daughter attends (Senior Infants) the class generally is somewhere between one and two years ahead of where they're supposed to be, at least according to the dreadfully backwards-facing national curriculum.

    Some friends of hers who go to a local catholic-controlled school on the other hand, are (finger in the air) maybe a year behind -- hence the rather embarrassing experience for them of having their nine-year old male reading skills corrected by a girl who turned six a few weeks ago.


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    #33
    joydivision
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 735 ✭✭✭joydivision


    Zamboni wrote: »

    You would be perpetuating a malevolent and corrupt system which biases in favour of religious belief.
    So I should make the kids suffer in order to fight a system I couldnt really give a toss about . Are we fighting the catholic church now? If I believe I will just turn into fertilizer after I die who cares if somebody splashes water on my head . Itd be just as relevant as wetting my hair before I put gel in it would it not ?


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    #34
    Zamboni
    Registered Users Posts: 4,305 ✭✭✭Zamboni


    joydivision wrote: »
    So I should make the kids suffer in order to fight a system I couldnt really give a toss about . Are we fighting the catholic church now? If I believe I will just turn into fertilizer after I die who cares if somebody splashes water on my head . Itd be just as relevant as wetting my hair before I put gel in it would it not ?

    Suffer? Expand.


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    #35
    joydivision
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 735 ✭✭✭joydivision


    Zamboni wrote: »

    Suffer? Expand.
    They wont get to dress up atleast twice and get money from all their relatives like all the other kids are for a start .


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    #36
    Zamboni
    Registered Users Posts: 4,305 ✭✭✭Zamboni


    joydivision wrote: »
    They wont get to dress up atleast twice and get money from all their relatives like all the other kids are for a start .

    Oh the horror.
    And on that note, I'm out.


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    #37
    kylith
    Registered Users Posts: 17,736 ✭✭✭✭kylith


    Peregrinus wrote: »
    Which is why no-one baptised in to the Catholic church is now a member of any other church, and none of them have ever left the church.

    Oh, wait . . . .

    You cannot leave the RCC since they removed the mechanism to do so. Maybe they'd consider you a Catholic Jew, or a Catholic Muslim. Just like they consider me a Catholic even though I've been an atheist for years. Possibly there's another way of taking your name off their books if you're joining another religion, but I've never looked into it myself. If you know of a link I'd be interested in having a read.


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    #38
    Banbh
    Registered Users Posts: 1,037 ✭✭✭Banbh


    If you sign them up as Jews they get a big bar mitzvah - and a freshly bulldozed farm in Israel.

    Why arre you not depriving them of this?


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    #39
    joydivision
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 735 ✭✭✭joydivision


    Zamboni wrote: »

    Oh the horror.
    And on that note, I'm out.
    But if you thought about it from the kids angle this would make them feel isolated and left out . Surely for the sake of a bit of water on their heads . Do we now believe this baptism has special powers . You are no different with or without it . Should we not allow them to dress up for halloween because there is no such thing as ghosts .
    Its not all black and white . Let the kids have a bit of fun I say .


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    #40
    endacl
    Registered Users Posts: 22,247 ✭✭✭✭endacl


    lazygal wrote: »
    There's been a few rumblings from family and some eyerolling comments about 'giving her the choice by having her baptised'.
    But aren't you actually giving her the choice?


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    #41
    Bannasidhe
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 19,219 Mod ✭✭✭✭Bannasidhe


    joydivision wrote: »
    But if you thought about it from the kids angle this would make them feel isolated and left out . Surely for the sake of a bit of water on their heads . Do we now believe this baptism has special powers . You are no different with or without it . Should we not allow them to dress up for halloween because there is no such thing as ghosts .
    Its not all black and white . Let the kids have a bit of fun I say .

    We have to sign up as members of a corrupt organisation responsible for the deaths and torture of countless people across the century to engage in a spot of trick or treating?

    This not getting the memo lark is beyond a joke now. :mad:


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    #42
    endacl
    Registered Users Posts: 22,247 ✭✭✭✭endacl


    joydivision wrote: »
    Should we not allow them to dress up for halloween because there is no such thing as ghosts .
    Of course we should. Its entirely appropriate for kids to dress up and play make-believe. Grown men on the other hand...


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    #43
    carlarua
    Registered Users Posts: 26 ✭carlarua


    None of my children are baptized, attend a local national school and we never had problems. The only thing they don't get to do is wrangle money from their relatives when other children do their communion...I'm not a militant atheist, so I don't mind if they just sit in the classroom during religious education, since the school is only small and there are no facilities for non-religious children to go to during R.E.

    The only time we got confronted with the children not being baptized was when one of our kids was seriously ill in hospital ; a nurse who admitted us could not get over the fact that we were not religious, kids weren't baptized, we didn't want a priest, and how could we live with ourselves, denying our child heaven if she should die...the other half and I were just too upset about our daughter's condition to make any comment or take any action.


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    #44
    Bannasidhe
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 19,219 Mod ✭✭✭✭Bannasidhe


    endacl wrote: »
    Of course we should. Its entirely appropriate for kids to dress up and play make-believe. Grown men on the other hand...

    My grandson dresses up as Buzz Lightyear.


    We did not have to sprinkle him with Disney dust or promise to obey Disney and shun all other animated film producers.


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    #45
    joydivision
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 735 ✭✭✭joydivision


    Think im just gonna explain to them when they hit about 13 or 14 to forget all that holy joe stuff its just for kids .
    Is this a terrible thing ?


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    #46
    eyescreamcone
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,562 ✭✭✭eyescreamcone


    T-K-O wrote: »
    I dont have kids but if I did I would have them baptised. Why close certain doors or risk closing them.

    You and your sheeplike attitude is why it's so hard to change anything here.
    Make sure to tell your kids how brave you were in standing up for what is right.


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    #47
    endacl
    Registered Users Posts: 22,247 ✭✭✭✭endacl


    Bannasidhe wrote: »
    My grandson dresses up as Buzz Lightyear.


    We did not have to sprinkle him with Disney dust or promise to obey Disney and shun all other animated film producers.
    And what happens in the future when you want to enrol him in......

    http://disney.go.com/gamekingdom/v1/marketing/index.html


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    #48
    Bannasidhe
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 19,219 Mod ✭✭✭✭Bannasidhe


    joydivision wrote: »
    Think im just gonna explain to them when they hit about 13 or 14 to forget all that holy joe stuff its just for kids .
    Is this a terrible thing ?

    'Hey kid, remember all that stuff you have been taught for the last 13 years about your soul and there being only one God and if you don't believe in that God you will spend eternity in the torment of hell?' Well, we were lying'.

    Sounds like a plan....


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    #49
    endacl
    Registered Users Posts: 22,247 ✭✭✭✭endacl


    eyescreamcone wrote: »
    You and your sheeplike attitude is why it's so hard to change anything here.
    Make sure to tell your kids how brave you were in standing up for what is right.
    A little harsh, but true....


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    #50
    joydivision
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 735 ✭✭✭joydivision


    Bannasidhe wrote: »

    'Hey kid, remember all that stuff you have been taught for the last 13 years about your soul and there being only one God and if you don't believe in that God you will spend eternity in the torment of hell?' Well, we were lying'.

    Sounds like a plan....
    Hey sun remember repunzel . Itd be a white lie . Its not as if they will get religious teachings from me .
    Maybe if my son was autistic or something like the fella from fair city that couldnt understand a little lie but im sure they wont be too bothered by it . I used to think wrestling waas real too .


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    #51
    eyescreamcone
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,562 ✭✭✭eyescreamcone


    joydivision wrote: »
    Hey sun remember repunzel . Itd be a white lie . Its not as if they will get religious teachings from me .
    Maybe if my son was autistic or something like the fella from fair city that couldnt understand a little lie but im sure they wont be too bothered by it . I used to think wrestling waas real too .

    Wrestling is more real than bible stories ;)


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    #52
    kylith
    Registered Users Posts: 17,736 ✭✭✭✭kylith


    Bannasidhe wrote: »
    'Hey kid, remember all that stuff you have been taught for the last 13 years about your soul and there being only one God and if you don't believe in that God you will spend eternity in the torment of hell?' Well, we were lying'.

    Sounds like a plan....

    True. This 'sure you might as well go along with it even if you don't believe it' lark is why those of us who don't want anything to do with it are having such a hard time in schools. Nothing will ever change while people just go along with it.


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    #53
    Bannasidhe
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 19,219 Mod ✭✭✭✭Bannasidhe


    joydivision wrote: »
    Hey sun remember repunzel . Itd be a white lie . Its not as if they will get religious teachings from me .
    Maybe if my son was autistic or something like the fella from fair city that couldnt understand a little lie but im sure they wont be too bothered by it . I used to think wrestling waas real too .

    Yes, because Repunzel believers use the fact that a large percentage of the population have had fairy dust sprinkled on their foreheads while babies to influence civil legislation and to insist that the State gives their ethos preference thereby ensuring that all citizens abide by their rules.


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    #54
    Shankly88
    Registered Users Posts: 68 ✭✭Shankly88


    It really gets on my nerves this whole catholic bashing that seems to be the new thing. If your atheist or whatever else so be it your choice. But don't tell me or anyone else we are wrong or sheep or un educated because we are catholic (my son is baptised by the way). I could pick holes In everyone's religion but I don't. Ps how many of you got married in a fancy church for show or plan to? But then dis the church in general itself well I know plenty. Hypocrites


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    #55
    coffee_cake
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Politics Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 81,309 CMod ✭✭✭✭coffee_cake


    Shankly88 wrote: »
    It really gets on my nerves this whole catholic bashing that seems to be the new thing. If your atheist or whatever else so be it your choice. But don't tell me or anyone else we are wrong or sheep or un educated because we are catholic (my son is baptised by the way). I could pick holes In everyone's religion but I don't. Ps how many of you got married in a fancy church for show or plan to? But then dis the church in general itself well I know plenty. Hypocrites

    It gets on my nerves when people wander into a forum dedicated to one topic and whinge about that topic.
    Nobody tracked you down and said HEY SHANKLY, YOU'RE WRONG AND I'M GOING TO STAND HERE AND POKE YOU AND TELL YOU YOU'RE WRONG.
    You came in here and decided to be offended all by yourself.


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    #56
    ronan45
    Registered Users Posts: 1,584 ✭✭✭ronan45


    Is the Childs name Damien per chance?:eek:


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    #57
    kylith
    Registered Users Posts: 17,736 ✭✭✭✭kylith


    Shankly88 wrote: »
    It really gets on my nerves this whole catholic bashing that seems to be the new thing. If your atheist or whatever else so be it your choice. But don't tell me or anyone else we are wrong or sheep or un educated because we are catholic (my son is baptised by the way). I could pick holes In everyone's religion but I don't. Ps how many of you got married in a fancy church for show or plan to? But then dis the church in general itself well I know plenty. Hypocrites

    No atheist that I know has gotten married in a church.

    How many 'Catholics' have only been inside a church for their baptism, communion, confirmation, and wedding? Quite a few, in fact I'd wager that the 'occasion' Catholics vastly outnumber those who are in there every Sunday.


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    #58
    Bannasidhe
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 19,219 Mod ✭✭✭✭Bannasidhe


    Shankly88 wrote: »
    It really gets on my nerves this whole catholic bashing that seems to be the new thing. If your atheist or whatever else so be it your choice. But don't tell me or anyone else we are wrong or sheep or un educated because we are catholic (my son is baptised by the way). I could pick holes In everyone's religion but I don't. Ps how many of you got married in a fancy church for show or plan to? But then dis the church in general itself well I know plenty. Hypocrites

    If the Catholic church leaves me alone I will leave the Catholic church alone.

    Nope- no church wedding for me. Even if I wanted one. I wouldn't be allowed.

    In fact - according to the Pope if I was allowed to marry my OH it would be a threat to Humanity.

    Good luck picking holes in my 'religion' - I don't have one.


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    #59
    endacl
    Registered Users Posts: 22,247 ✭✭✭✭endacl


    Shankly88 wrote: »
    It really gets on my nerves this whole catholic bashing that seems to be the new thing. If your atheist or whatever else so be it your choice. But don't tell me or anyone else we are wrong or sheep or un educated because we are catholic (my son is baptised by the way). I could pick holes In everyone's religion but I don't. Ps how many of you got married in a fancy church for show or plan to? But then dis the church in general itself well I know plenty. Hypocrites
    Its not new. I've been at it since I was about 12/13.
    It not a choice. Its a direct consequence of critical thinking.
    I don't tell you its wrong for you. But I'm happy to say it in itself wrong in principle. Your choices are your business. As is your insecure response to the topic. Are you really that sure of your beliefs? :)

    Not married by the way, but if I ever do it won't be in a church. Impossible to get the stains out of the photos.


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    #60
    Shankly88
    Registered Users Posts: 68 ✭✭Shankly88


    bluewolf wrote: »
    It gets on my nerves when people wander into a forum dedicated to one topic and whinge about that topic.
    Nobody tracked you down and said HEY SHANKLY, YOU'RE WRONG AND I'M GOING TO STAND HERE AND POKE YOU AND TELL YOU YOU'RE WRONG.
    You came in here and decided to be offended all by yourself.

    Ye because everyone has stuck to the op get a grip. I'm not whining about the topic either it's a valid topic. I'm whining about people who think They are great and smart dissing everyone that is religious


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    #61
    Bannasidhe
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 19,219 Mod ✭✭✭✭Bannasidhe


    Shankly88 wrote: »
    Ye because everyone has stuck to the op get a grip. I'm not whining about the topic either it's a valid topic. I'm whining about people who think They are great and smart dissing everyone that is religious

    You storm in here and complain about people saying a child should not be inducted into a religion 'just because...'
    Seems to me the people here take religion far more seriously then the 'just because, sure what harm like...' brigade.

    Saying one should be a member of a religion only if one truly believes in that religion = dissing religion. Wow, that is some logic.


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