Having the door held open and other gestures

Foxhound38

Evening ladies,

Was walking through my place of work earlier today and (as I do all the time, with people of either gender) held a door open for a woman who worked there. Well jaysus, I was not expecting the reaction I got! I was given a right giving out to by her for "reinforcing gender roles". It reminded me of a time last year when I was walking up the stairs of a Hostel and saw a girl struggling with a massive suitcase - I asked if I could lend a hand (again, something I would do for someone of either gender if I saw them struggling) and got a similar reception and accompanying lecture.

Do ye get annoyed by these gestures? Are they really as offensive symbolicly as I have now been led to believe? I honestly would have seen them as just good manners, and actually get a bit frazzled if someone doesn't hold the door open for me if they are ahead, or didn't offer to help if they saw me struggling with something heavy. It's just not something I even think about.

Sorcha16

Ignore her, some people aren't gracious enough to deserve the kindness shown to them

krudler

I hold the door open for guys as well, its called manners, nothing to do with gender stereotyping at all.

Everyone holds the door open for everyone else or offers a hand, I offered a hand to someone with a case recently
Tell them to cop themselves on then forget about it

Princess Peach

There is a guy on my bus that drives me crazy cause he never steps back to let ladies off the bus, doesn't hold the bus door open for me or either of the double doors into college! Whatever about letting ladies go first, that's just my old fashioned manners but drives me nuts when he let's the door slam back on me.

I also hold the door open for everyone, men or women. It's manners, not gender roles. I do hold some old fashioned beliefs, as mentioned above, that ladies should be served first and all that jazz, i had a posh grandmother that bet etiquette into me :pac:

This lady at work sounds crazy, and so damn rude.

dfx-

krudler wrote: »

I hold the door open for guys as well, its called manners, nothing to do with gender stereotyping at all.

Yep, I hold the door open now as an instinctive reaction without looking if anyone at all is behind, never mind which gender is coming along next.

Foxhound38

I should also point out that I wasn't doing it in a questionable way - I could see someone else coming the opposite direction through the window in the door and held it open for her to go through first. We couldn't both get through at the same time and I wasn't in a mad rush. Honestly, it's an automatic thing for me to hold the door open if there is someone coming down towards me - regardless of age, height, weight, genitalia or species. Just manners at the end of the day!

thund3rbird_

the next time, wait til she's a few feet from the door, let it close in her face and see if she changes her tune.

petty I know, but you can let her know you are against "enforcing gender roles" and just treating her as "one of the lads"

Tigger99

thund3rbird_ wrote: »

the next time, wait til she's a few feet from the door, let it close in her face and see if she changes her tune.

petty I know, but you can let her know you are against "enforcing gender roles" and just treating her as "one of the lads"

Really, why, would not showing some manners to a person be treating them like one of the boys?
I'm female and hold the door open for men & women and expect to be treated with the same courtesy, its basic manners.

BBDBB

next time just say

I dont hold the door open because you may be a lady

I hold the door open because I am a gentleman

RacoonQueen

It is just good manners. I hold the door open for people without even thinking, sometimes men will take the door from you and let you go - because thats the polite thing to do.

Sounds like she has a few issues. Wouldn't give it a second thought.

I second the idea of closing the door in her face next time.

Really, why, would not showing some manners to a person be treating them like one of the boys?
I'm female and hold the door open for men & women and expect to be treated with the same courtesy, its basic manners.

Well based on the idea she thinks that men only hold the door for women it would suggest she thinks he wouldn't do it for a man...

miamee

Female and hold the door open for anyone coming through a door after me, just basic manners which this particular female is obviously lacking in.

Princess Peach, I have a gran who has beaten certain etiquette into me too. After reading your post, I've just realised none of it was ever about females being taken care of first, gents holding doors, etc. I think she might be a feminist after all :pac:

07734

I suggest, if she's over, say, 35,

"Madam, it has nothing to do with your gender. It has to do with your age".

That'll ruin her day right there!

Das Kitty

Holding doors, grand. Common courtesy all round (unless the person is so far from the door they need to trot to take you up on your kindness...). Helping a person struggling with something heavy? The human thing to do.

There are some things that I'm told are chivalrous that I do find annoying though.
I can't abide having my chair pulled out for me. It's so awkward. I know how to sit on a chair, I'm not wearing 20 petticoats, leave my seat alone you loon.

"Chivalrous" things you don't see often anymore but drove me cracked the few times they happened to me. A guy ordering my meal for me, like picked it out from the menu without asking what I'd like and told the waiter, "The lady will have..." I was quite young so I didn't argue, but if it happened now I'd finish the sentence with "her coat."

Then there was the time a fella took it upon himself to change my drink order of a pint to a glass of wine because it was more ladylike. I casually picked up the pint on front of him and drank it, leaving him with the wine. He didn't try that crap with me again.

Das Kitty

Das Kitty wrote: »

A guy ordering my meal for me, like picked it out from the menu without asking what I'd like and told the waiter, "The lady will have..." I was quite young so I didn't argue, but if it happened now I'd finish the sentence with "her coat."

:D
That's mental though. If you discussed it beforehand and then he orders could be fun, but without asking? lol!
Let him order and then be all "actually I'm allergic to shellfish, thanks"

krudler

Das Kitty wrote: »

Holding doors, grand. Common courtesy all round (unless the person is so far from the door they need to trot to take you up on your kindness...). Helping a person struggling with something heavy? The human thing to do.

There are some things that I'm told are chivalrous that I do find annoying though.
I can't abide having my chair pulled out for me. It's so awkward. I know how to sit on a chair, I'm not wearing 20 petticoats, leave my seat alone you loon.

"Chivalrous" things you don't see often anymore but drove me cracked the few times they happened to me. A guy ordering my meal for me, like picked it out from the menu without asking what I'd like and told the waiter, "The lady will have..." I was quite young so I didn't argue, but if it happened now I'd finish the sentence with "her coat."

Then there was the time a fella took it upon himself to change my drink order of a pint to a glass of wine because it was more ladylike. I casually picked up the pint on front of him and drank it, leaving him with the wine. He didn't try that crap with me again.

I'd never try to pull out someones chair for them, tried it once and it was really awkward and she nearly fell off, wont be doing that again :pac:

IvyTheTerrible

Wow what an over-reaction!

I'm a woman and I hold the door for anyone no matter what their gender. It's called basic manners.

eviltwin

I would agree with all the above, I never object when anyone holds a door for me, its good manners, I do it myself regardless of whether the person is male or female.

Malari

Are we talking about holding the door open after you walk through it? In this case I'd always do it no matter who was coming after me.

Or approaching a door together, and stepping back to allow the woman to go through in front of you? I do this sometimes. My boyfriend and my dad do this for me all the time. My brother doesn't :pac: and he told me it's about equality. Doesn't bother me.

If, like the OP, I see someone coming towards me through a glass door and I reach the door first, I think I would nearly always hold the door for someone first. Unless it's a busy shop front on a Saturday afternoon and doing that would turn you into a doorman for a steady stream of people for a minute or two In this case, only people with buggies or small children and old people get the door held for them.

Princess Peach

miamee wrote: »

Female and hold the door open for anyone coming through a door after me, just basic manners which this particular female is obviously lacking in.

Princess Peach, I have a gran who has beaten certain etiquette into me too. After reading your post, I've just realised none of it was ever about females being taken care of first, gents holding doors, etc. I think she might be a feminist after all :pac:

Oddly my grandmother was a feminist, ran four local council and was an activist for women's rights. She just had all these notions. God forbid you sat cross legged in front of her. And if she saw you slouching she would threaten to put her knee in your back till you learned to stand up straight :pac:

I still hold a few of these notions. I've never had a man order for me unless I told him what I want, but it shouldn't happen if the server follows my strict rules and asks the lady what she wants first. I was at a semi formal breakfast the other day, at a table mostly of men and it annoyed it me when they didn't all stand and shake my hand to greet me when I arrived, or stand when I left the table :pac: I'm easily annoyed.

I think the main thing when it comes to manners is know when to keep it to yourself though. If the woman in the OP was annoyed by the gesture, fair enough. But to call out a stranger on it is out of order. The lack of these gestures annoy me, but you just have to let them slip most of the time cause they aren't a big deal really, especially with strangers!

Das Kitty

Das Kitty wrote: »

Holding doors, grand. Common courtesy all round (unless the person is so far from the door they need to trot to take you up on your kindness...). Helping a person struggling with something heavy? The human thing to do.

There are some things that I'm told are chivalrous that I do find annoying though.
I can't abide having my chair pulled out for me. It's so awkward. I know how to sit on a chair, I'm not wearing 20 petticoats, leave my seat alone you loon.

"Chivalrous" things you don't see often anymore but drove me cracked the few times they happened to me. A guy ordering my meal for me, like picked it out from the menu without asking what I'd like and told the waiter, "The lady will have..." I was quite young so I didn't argue, but if it happened now I'd finish the sentence with "her coat."

Then there was the time a fella took it upon himself to change my drink order of a pint to a glass of wine because it was more ladylike. I casually picked up the pint on front of him and drank it, leaving him with the wine. He didn't try that crap with me again.

Jaysus! Where'd you find these fellas?
If that drinks situation happened to me I'd do well to remain as poised as you did, glass in the face (no, not just the drink) comes to mind!!

Das Kitty

Deleted User wrote: »

Jaysus! Where'd you find these fellas?
If that drinks situation happened to me I'd do well to remain as poised as you did, glass in the face (no, not just the drink) comes to mind!!

I wasn't on a date with the second lad. He's a friend of my husband's.

Malari

Princess Peach wrote: »

Oddly my grandmother was a feminist, ran four local council and was an activist for women's rights. She just had all these notions. God forbid you sat cross legged in front of her. And if she saw you slouching she would threaten to put her knee in your back till you learned to stand up straight :pac:

I still hold a few of these notions. I've never had a man order for me unless I told him what I want, but it shouldn't happen if the server follows my strict rules and asks the lady what she wants first. I was at a semi formal breakfast the other day, at a table mostly of men and it annoyed it me when they didn't all stand and shake my hand to greet me when I arrived, or stand when I left the table :pac: I'm easily annoyed.

I think the main thing when it comes to manners is know when to keep it to yourself though. If the woman in the OP was annoyed by the gesture, fair enough. But to call out a stranger on it is out of order. The lack of these gestures annoy me, but you just have to let them slip most of the time cause they aren't a big deal really, especially with strangers!

Really? I guess it's polite to stand when you are shaking hands with someone who has arrived to a table, but not when you leave?

No one has EVER tried to order food for me or change my drink if it's unladylike. Although my dad does despair when I used to drink pints :pac: He's just old-fashioned.

Princess Peach

Malari wrote: »

Really? I guess it's polite to stand when you are shaking hands with someone who has arrived to a table, but not when you leave?

No one has EVER tried to order food for me or change my drink if it's unladylike. Although my dad does despair when I used to drink pints :pac: He's just old-fashioned.

It was semi formal so not a huge deal, I would be annoyed if it was formal. I'm an odd one

miamee

Princess Peach wrote: »

Oddly my grandmother was a feminist, ran four local council and was an activist for women's rights. She just had all these notions. God forbid you sat cross legged in front of her. And if she saw you slouching she would threaten to put her knee in your back till you learned to stand up straight :pac:

I still hold a few of these notions. I've never had a man order for me unless I told him what I want, but it shouldn't happen if the server follows my strict rules and asks the lady what she wants first. I was at a semi formal breakfast the other day, at a table mostly of men and it annoyed it me when they didn't all stand and shake my hand to greet me when I arrived, or stand when I left the table :pac: I'm easily annoyed.

I think the main thing when it comes to manners is know when to keep it to yourself though. If the woman in the OP was annoyed by the gesture, fair enough. But to call out a stranger on it is out of order. The lack of these gestures annoy me, but you just have to let them slip most of the time cause they aren't a big deal really, especially with strangers!

I don't think that has ever happened to me - not that I recall anyway! I wouldn't be too worried about that.

My uncle did that for years, the standing when a lady left/joined a table. Wouldn't annoy me if someone didn't though, just something that might make you smile if they did

07734

07734 wrote: »

I suggest, if she's over, say, 35,

"Madam, it has nothing to do with your gender. It has to do with your age".

That'll ruin her day right there!

Oh I laughed more than I should have at that :pac:
35 is not old though. Right?

OP don't judge the rest of us by the couple of ill mannered witches that you've encountered! Keep on holding the door, keep on offering help when it may be needed, keep on being a decent person.

Malari

How do you mean formal - work-related? Would you expect the same thing to happen if a man was leaving, or if there were women at the table?

Not picking on you! Just never heard of someone who would get annoyed about this before

Princess Peach

It's fine! It was at a conference so semi formal business thing. But I believe it's just something that should happen when out to dinner or at a formal meal.

Thinking of it now I'm not sure it really has ever happened to me, but i was at a dining etiquette event recently so it must be just fresh in my mind! Yeah, actually I don't think it was anything that every crossed my mind before that event :pac: told you I am odd!

Bannasidhe

I always hold the door open for people and thank people who do it for me - I do glare at people who go through the door and let it slam back on me. I also give my seat up on public transport to people I think need it more then me - a habit my son has taken to the extremes of ordering teenagers out of their seats (he being over 6 foot means they tend to obey) for people who need it more.

As for carrying things - hell, if it means I don't have to carry a heavy load I am delighted to avail of offered largess from any gender. Now if only they would offer to carry me as well....:p

I always offer to help others. Myself and my OH took a day trip to Tangiers recently and as we were waiting to get off the ferry in Spain there was a young woman in front of us struggling with a toddler in a buggy, her 5 year old daughter and 2 large suitcases. I took one case, OH took other case as far as customs for her and because we had no luggage I pushed the buggy out to the kid's waiting father while their mother went through customs. Basic manners as far as I am concerned.
Many years ago I was that young woman struggling with luggage and buggy and was always delighted if someone offered to help - now it's my turn to pay that kindness back.

Funnily enough it immediately paid off for us as the parking ticket machine ate our money and ticket and the kid's Dad sorted it out for us as my 7 words of Spanish really weren't up to the task and mime/interpretative dance was getting me nowhere with the bemused guard.

RacoonQueen

bluewolf wrote: »

My uncle did that for years, the standing when a lady left/joined a table. Wouldn't annoy me if someone didn't though, just something that might make you smile if they did

I'd be thinking ''ah you're so cute'' - sort of thing my dad's family would do or maybe dad still would for people who aren't us in a formal setting.

Dad used to make us stand up when visitors arrived and came into the room when we were kids. He thought we were posh though. Must have been weird to walk in and see us all go to stand up...

Bannasidhe

RacoonQueen wrote: »

. Must have been weird to walk in and see us all go to stand up...

Did ye find first time visitors tended not to return?

Ilyana

I like those little things like someone letting me pass through a door or helping me with heavy bags. These things are rarely done by women IME; although I do these things because at work we're expected to do them for customers. Well not expected, but it looks better.

I certainly wouldn't be offended by a man doing these things. In college once, a guy let me walk ahead of him through a doorway, and I really liked that. A little bit of chivalry will always have its place in the world.

However, a man ordering for me would be insulting to me. I'm a woman, not a mute.

Stheno

Das Kitty wrote: »

Holding doors, grand. Common courtesy all round (unless the person is so far from the door they need to trot to take you up on your kindness...). Helping a person struggling with something heavy? The human thing to do.

There are some things that I'm told are chivalrous that I do find annoying though.
I can't abide having my chair pulled out for me. It's so awkward. I know how to sit on a chair, I'm not wearing 20 petticoats, leave my seat alone you loon.

"Chivalrous" things you don't see often anymore but drove me cracked the few times they happened to me. A guy ordering my meal for me, like picked it out from the menu without asking what I'd like and told the waiter, "The lady will have..." I was quite young so I didn't argue, but if it happened now I'd finish the sentence with "her coat."

Then there was the time a fella took it upon himself to change my drink order of a pint to a glass of wine because it was more ladylike. I casually picked up the pint on front of him and drank it, leaving him with the wine. He didn't try that crap with me again.

Those chivalrous things made me laugh

I'd always hold a door open if someone is coming behind me.

Dolbert

Das Kitty wrote: »

Then there was the time a fella took it upon himself to change my drink order of a pint to a glass of wine because it was more ladylike. I casually picked up the pint on front of him and drank it, leaving him with the wine. He didn't try that crap with me again.

I get borderline emotional if I'm hungry, if someone tried to order for me they would have an episode of she-hulk proportions.

NO-ONE MESSES WITH DOLBERT'S FOOD :mad: :pac:

GRMA

Deleted User wrote: »

Jaysus! Where'd you find these fellas?
If that drinks situation happened to me I'd do well to remain as poised as you did, glass in the face (no, not just the drink) comes to mind!!

I know you're joking but on a serious note, thats not funny at all. I've seen a guy nearly killed by a girl doing that, as it was he was permanently scarred and lost tons of blood.

For some reason glassing someone seems to have a degree of acceptability about that response, more acceptable than it should be, someone wouldn't joke about pulling out a knife and stabbing someone over ordering drinks when there is next to no difference between the two acts.

shalalala

My day brightens up a bit when a man steps back to let me onto the bus first or opens a door for me. Obviously I am equally as polite when the situation needs it but feminism has more important battles to fight.

Also I know a few old school men that always walk on the road side of the pavement. Now that is cute!

Hannibal Smith

Its funny i always hold the door open for people whether they're male or female...but when ever i stand back for a man they always get sheepish and insist i go first, or are embarrassed that i held the door for them. Im not complaining, i think its a lovely gesture, its just interesting in this day and age there are still inherent behaviours in existence.

thier

I think it's wonderful when someone holds the door open for me, regardless of gender. It means a huge deal to me.

postitnote

I would always hold the door open for other people, regardless of gender. I don't do it for the thanks, but I do dislike when it's not acknowledged.

Standing when someone leaves or enters a room, walking on the outside of the pavement with my girlfriend, walking behind her going up the stairs, walking in front going down stairs, are all things I was taught as a child as being the right thing to do.

It makes up for my many, many other faults.

Reminds me of my mate in Sydney holding a door for a woman in a car hire place. She sauntered on through without a word of thanks. Cue my hungover friend to blurt out rather louder than planned, "YOU'RE WELCOME!"

She belatedly thanked him.

bronte

shalalala wrote: »

Also I know a few old school men that always walk on the road side of the pavement. Now that is cute!

I think that's adorable, although it took me a while to realise it wasn't some sort of ocd type quirk that involved having to walk on a specific side of the path. :pac: It's very sweet.
I'll hold doors for anybody regardless of gender...it's just a nice thing to do.
If someone bites the head off you for having the audacity to hold a door for her, it's a fairly good indicator of the type of person she is in general.

Malari

postitnote wrote: »

I
Reminds me of my mate in Sydney holding a door for a woman in a car hire place. She sauntered on through without a word of thanks. Cue my hungover friend to blurt out rather louder than planned, "YOU'RE WELCOME!"

She belatedly thanked him.

I wouldn't need to be hungover to do that. As much as it's polite to hold the door open, no-one is obliged to do so and I would expect a thanks or nod at least. If it's not forthcoming I do normally say "you're welcome!"

Honey-ec

Malari wrote: »

If it's not forthcoming I do normally say "you're welcome!"

I do that every single time someone doesn't thank me for something they should have. Works like a charm.

Bannasidhe

I even do that when I pull in/stop to let cars come down narrow roads when an obstruction is on their side - I know they can't hear me but would a little nod or raise of the finger to thank the person who had right of way but stopped to let them go through be too much effort?

Twee.

I'm guilty of the "YOU'RE WELCOME" when someone doesn't acknowledge my door opening! I don't expect a round of applause for holding a door, but even a nod or thank you mouthed is welcomed.

beks101

I think someone having a problem with a guy offering to lend a hand or to hold a door open has their own issues and is probably generally a difficult/argumentative/irritable/neurotic person anyway.

I really don't get how it's supposedly an offensive gesture, I see it as a courteous sign of respect and consideration for a passing stranger, nothing more or less.

Tigger99

Ha, I do the your welcome too, gives me great satisfaction

cena

I hold the door open all the time for anyone. It just seems normal for me

LittleBook

shalalala wrote: »

Also I know a few old school men that always walk on the road side of the pavement. Now that is cute!

postitnote wrote: »

walking on the outside of the pavement with my girlfriend

bronte wrote: »

I think that's adorable, although it took me a while to realise it wasn't some sort of ocd type quirk that involved having to walk on a specific side of the path. :pac: It's very sweet.

I love this.

Emily Post wrote:

On the street, a man traditionally walks on the curb side — a custom born of the idea that women needed to be shielded from the potential hazards posed by the passing horse-and-buggy parade.

There's also the whole "gardyloo" story as well where men walked on the outside in Elizabethan times so that when the servants emptied the chamber pots into the streets, the person closest to the house was less likely to be splashed ... though I'm not sure how true this is in this context.

Emeraldy Pebbles

beks101 wrote: »

I think someone having a problem with a guy offering to lend a hand or to hold a door open has their own issues and is probably generally a difficult/argumentative/irritable/neurotic person anyway.

I really don't get how it's supposedly an offensive gesture, I see it as a courteous sign of respect and consideration for a passing stranger, nothing more or less.

If it's biased towards one gender, it's kinda patronising to that gender. I hold a door for either gender if it make for me to do so.

Tefral

I fly twice a week and often see people struggling with getting hand luggage out of the over head bins. I often reach in and help them out and they are usually grateful.

One morning, a lady who was vertically challenged to say the least was on her tip toes trying to get her cabin baggage out, she was quite clearly struggling, I just said "let me help you" and picked out her bag and handed it to her, the look she threw me, and just walked off the plane.

I would hold the doors open for anyone, but I have noticed lately that manners such as saying thank you are few and far between now. I dont do it to get a thanks but I would have thought it was a bit of courtesy.