Waterford Airport.

hardybuck

Teebor15 wrote: »

€5m last year???? another few million this year???

Correct. Last year Waterford got €5m out of €14m which was divvied up between all the regional airports, which they need every year.

Teebor15

hardybuck wrote: »

Correct. Last year Waterford got €5m out of €14m which was divvied up between all the regional airports, which they need every year.

Totally incorrect. Have another look at it and see if you can work our where you're gone wrong.

Masala

hardybuck wrote: »

Correct. Last year Waterford got €5m out of €14m which was divvied up between all the regional airports, which they need every year.

Don’t think any handouts outside of the €5 were in the millions either in 2019 or 2020 to date. To be fair....

Fox Uniform

Waterford received a grand total of €375,000 in 2019.

hardybuck

In the decade before flights were grounded in 2016 it got almost €20m in funding. Passengers tickets were subsidised by about €60 per journey.

There is no doubt that the airport will be loss making and will require subsidisation from taxpayers.

However we must go into that with our eyes open. If there is a benefit arising from that subsidisation - happy days. If not, the money should go elsewhere.

hardybuck

Teebor15 wrote: »

Totally incorrect. Have another look at it and see if you can work our where you're gone wrong.

So they haven't been in a position to do anything with it because they've been in planning?

Fox Uniform

hardybuck wrote: »

In the decade before flights were grounded in 2016 it got almost €20m in funding. Passengers tickets were subsidised by about €60 per journey.

There is no doubt that the airport will be loss making and will require subsidisation from taxpayers.

However we must go into that with our eyes open. If there is a benefit arising from that subsidisation - happy days. If not, the money should go elsewhere.

The 20 million quoted above is both Capital and Operational funding, most of this fund was spent on Capital - Upgrading Navigational Systems, New Airfield Lighting, Security, Rescue and works towards the future runway extension - CPO of lands, grading etc

Whatever funding Waterford has received has always been at the lower end of the scale. You need to compare like with like - Knock received 11 million to resurface the runway last year.

I do not believe that tickets were subsided to anywhere close to 60 per journey, can you provide a link to this ?

hardybuck

Fox Uniform wrote: »

The 20 million quoted above is both Capital and Operational funding, most of this fund was spent on Capital - Upgrading Navigational Systems, New Airfield Lighting, Security, Rescue and works towards the future runway extension - CPO of lands, grading etc

Whatever funding Waterford has received has always been at the lower end of the scale. You need to compare like with like - Knock received 11 million to resurface the runway last year.

I do not believe that tickets were subsided to anywhere close to 60 per journey, can you provide a link to this ?

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.independent.ie/irish-news/waterford-airport-got-20m-funds-over-decade-38221015.html

Halligan lobbied for the money for the runway, and it was a political decision that went against the advice given by officials in a number of Government Departments.

Teebor15

hardybuck wrote: »

So they haven't been in a position to do anything with it because they've been in planning?

The €5m your talking about is the rebate committed by Government when the runway is completed and signed into use by the IAA. So private investors put in €5m, local authorities €2m, borrow €5m, build runway, Claim €5m rebate. Nothing to do with operational support (OPEX)

hardybuck

Teebor15 wrote: »

The €5m your talking about is the rebate committed by Government when the runway is completed and signed into use by the IAA. So private investors put in €5m, local authorities €2m, borrow €5m, build runway, Claim €5m rebate. Nothing to do with operational support (OPEX)

Oh right, so it's €7m coming from the public rather than €5m?

Teebor15

hardybuck wrote: »

Oh right, so it's €7m coming from the public rather than €5m?

Now you have it, €1m from Waterford and €500,000 from both Kilkenny & Wexford County Councils, plus €5m from central government.

Fox Uniform

hardybuck wrote: »

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.independent.ie/irish-news/waterford-airport-got-20m-funds-over-decade-38221015.html

Halligan lobbied for the money for the runway, and it was a political decision that went against the advice given by officials in a number of Government Departments.

Thats just lazy reporting from the Indo. All they done was take the annual funding and divided by the total passengers. They did not bother to divide out CAPEX/OPEX, sure would not look as good then.

hardybuck

Fox Uniform wrote: »

Thats just lazy reporting from the Indo. All they done was take the annual funding and divided by the total passengers. They did not bother to divide out CAPEX/OPEX, sure would not look as good then.

What does the man in the street care about that? It's all public money flowing in.

curmudgeonly

914 wrote: »

Think the planning will be approved but will it get the funding required.

Aviation isn't in a great place at present. Cork and Shannon are struggling, with FF in power and two Cork men Martin and Covney, will they really want further competition for Cork.

Genuine question, not stirring ****.

I agree now is the time to do it but will we have the political support?

I have been told the 5 million is ring fenced and still available as is the monies vouched by Waterford businesses.

Bhoy1967

curmudgeonly wrote: »

6 more days to AN Bord Pleannala's decision on runway extension.

Is today decision day?

curmudgeonly

Bhoy1967 wrote: »

Is today decision day?

Yes still not changed on website

Wanderer78

tis looking really good for the airport now, with the nq's coming along, there should be long term demand now for the airport, but we truly do need to sort out some sort of public transport link into the city, its been disgraceful not having anything at all

Bhoy1967

Wanderer78 wrote: »

tis looking really good for the airport now, with the nq's coming along, there should be long term demand now for the airport, but we truly do need to sort out some sort of public transport link into the city, its been disgraceful not having anything at all

I suppose it all comes down to demand. Bring business, bring flights, bring public transport - they all feed into each other. Everything is looking positive for Waterford at the moment. Exciting times ahead!:cool:

Harry Palmr

Should listed here I suppose http://www.pleanala.ie/lists/2020/decided/index.htm

Bhoy1967

Harry Palmr wrote: »

Should listed here I suppose http://www.pleanala.ie/lists/2020/decided/index.htm

Tomorrow so

curmudgeonly

Unfortunately An bórd pleanála have kicked the can down the road to February.

Dum_Dum

curmudgeonly wrote: »

Unfortunately An bórd pleanála have kicked the can down the road to February.

Where's Senator John Cummins when you need him - to 'get it over the line'?


Answer: on the golf course

Teebor15

curmudgeonly wrote: »

Unfortunately An bórd pleanála have kicked the can down the road to February.

And the end of February at that! (For the CPO of the houses) Are they 2 separate applications?, I wonder can the planning application still be approved now. Obviously no work would start until the CPO is decided in Feb but they could be putting the job out to tender and getting everything lined up to hopefully start when the CPO is decided in order to not miss another summer!

Harry Palmr

Any reason given? Nothing mentioned in document below. Christ the wheels of the public section grind so slowly.

http://ww2.pleanala.ie/casenum/307528.htm

Dum_Dum

Harry Palmr wrote: »

Any reason given? Nothing mentioned in document below. Christ the wheels of the public section grind so slowly.

http://ww2.pleanala.ie/casenum/307528.htm

No they don't. Cork and Shannon got more free money just yesterday and 'just like that'.

Dum_Dum

Teebor15 wrote: »

And the end of February at that! (For the CPO of the houses) Are they 2 separate applications?, I wonder can the planning application still be approved now. Obviously no work would start until the CPO is decided in Feb but they could be putting the job out to tender and getting everything lined up to hopefully start when the CPO is decided in order to not miss another summer!

Naïve.


Stalling for time until the next recession when 'oh dear, there's no money for it'. Straight out of the FF/FG Waterford cookbook.

Bards

Teebor15 wrote: »

And the end of February at that! (For the CPO of the houses) Are they 2 separate applications?, I wonder can the planning application still be approved now. Obviously no work would start until the CPO is decided in Feb but they could be putting the job out to tender and getting everything lined up to hopefully start when the CPO is decided in order to not miss another summer!

I really hate to say it but covid put the final nail in the coffin.. Airline traffic is going back to the 80s.. The amount of airlines gojng to go bust will be unreal.. We will have 1000s of pilots loosing their licenses due to lack of flying hours/take off and landings... The best we can hope for is an hourly train from the new train station to Heuston and a metro to the airport

curmudgeonly

Lads steady on, this is very normal with ABP, too many cases not enough people and they take extra time.
Happens all the time and it will probably happen before the February date.

The proposed start date if this gets planning is late spring to be open for 2022 season.

So chill on the Machiavellian theories.

Bhoy1967

Bards wrote: »

I really hate to say it but covid put the final nail in the coffin.. Airline traffic is going back to the 80s.. The amount of airlines gojng to go bust will be unreal.. We will have 1000s of pilots loosing their licenses due to lack of flying hours/take off and landings... The best we can hope for is an hourly train from the new train station to Heuston and a metro to the airport

I can't agree with that - air travel will be back, people will start moving again, this virus will pass.
I also know one of the private investors in the airport has ties with aircraft maintenance - one of the main interests in the the extension of the runway was to facilitate the maintenance of larger aircraft such as 737s - apparently there is not enough capacity in Dublin to cover all required so therefore Waterford was seen as an avenue for expansion.

Wanderer78

Bhoy1967 wrote:

I suppose it all comes down to demand. Bring business, bring flights, bring public transport - they all feed into each other. Everything is looking positive for Waterford at the moment. Exciting times ahead!

...and its this type if thinking fcuks the whole thing up, relying on market forces, me arse, having a functioning transport system is critical to such developments, if such an expansion is gonna happen, this will be a critical component, waiting for the passengers to show up, is too late.