Waterford Airport.

Dum_Dum

Dum_Dum wrote: »

Waterford is sat down philosophising about coronavirus and Brexit while the rest of country is spending free money like goodo.

Even more free money for other regional airports:


https://www.rte.ie/news/business/2020/1203/1182070-regional-airport-funding/

Wanderer78

Dum_Dum wrote: »

Even more free money for other regional airports:


https://www.rte.ie/news/business/2020/1203/1182070-regional-airport-funding/

once again, money only becomes free when the debts its based upon are defaulted or forgiven, which doesnt happen all that much, either in the public or private sectors, most debts are serviced

ExoPolitic

Well the new "deadline" for An Bord Pleanála is quicky approaching; February 26, 2021...

This project over the years was skilfully pushed in to the future by Shane Ross, right in to the next government...

hardybuck

ExoPolitic wrote: »

Well the new "deadline" for An Bord Pleanála is quicky approaching; February 26, 2021...

This project over the years was skilfully pushed in to the future by Shane Ross, right in to the next government...

Are you insinuating that An Bord Pleanala is controlled by the Government?

914

Does it matter at this stage?

We're struggling to get the required investment in to WIT, can we honestly see the government commiting to Waterford Airport.

Cork and Shannon are going to be hit massively financially due to covid and I for one can not see government providing competition for either.

We also then have the issue with airlines, will they be looking to expand when covid ends, will airlines survive.

At the moment to many ifs buts or maybes exist. I feel we have have missed the boat.

Really hope I am wrong but like everything with the airport the timing is awful.

Last time we came extremely close to the extension was 2006/27 when Martin Cullen announced €27 million was available to extend, widen runway, taxiways, terminal expansion, purchase of two new fire appliance's.

Then the recession hit and plans were shelved never to be seen again.

Possibly the only difference this time is the private investment and the talks of dublin aerospace relocating.

smellyoldboot

What difference will it really make if the runway gets extended and the result is a half arsed airport again. Flights to a few English cities won't cut it anymore. People will ignore it and head to Dublin and Cork if this is what the plan is again. It's really not worth the investment without an agreement with a carrier for regular flights to the continent and/or sun destinations lined up.

914

smellyoldboot wrote: »

What difference will it really make if the runway gets extended and the result is a half arsed airport again. Flights to a few English cities won't cut it anymore. People will ignore it and head to Dublin and Cork if this is what the plan is again. It's really not worth the investment without an agreement with a carrier for regular flights to the continent and/or sun destinations lined up.

I would disagree with that. If you had a daily London and another uk city service I wouldn't see anything wrong with that.

But you are right come summer you would like to see a summer service to Spain/portugal.

You won't start with continental europe, UK has to be the starting point and hopefully grow from there.

You get a London route and effectively waterford is the closest city to London, which could be beneficial with brexit, although by the time the airport gets commercial flights back, we will be well and truly passed brexit.

The key would be to have dublin aerospace or something similar as your core business along with R117, then commercial becomes a bonus.

friendlyfun

We're their direct flights from Waterford to At John's Newfoundland at one point? Does anyone know if was successful? Or when it stopped?

Harry Palmr

How teh feck could a plane from a short arse runway airport reach Canada in one go?

hardybuck

It's a stroke of luck that the project didn't get started 12-24 months ago, as it would have been gathering cobwebs. I think that would have killed the airport in the long term - I don't think it can afford any further failures.

The best case scenario, in my opinion, is for the planning application to be approved in the next few weeks, works could start in the summer or autumn, and maybe completed in time for summer 2023.

It's going to take a long time for tourism and the airline sector to recover and I'd be surprised if the addition of extra capacity in Waterford would be attractive or viable before then (or possibly even by then).

BBM77

Don’t see how it was a “stroke of luck” that the extension did not start already. Considering that the airport is clearly financially viable even without passenger services. To my mind it would be better to have the extended runway ASAP.

julyjane

Regarding the aviation industry taking a long time to recover, I don't speak for anyone else but as soon as I can safely travel again I'll be making up for all the trips I missed out on. It would be better again if we could do some of that travelling from the local airport. There have been services cut from Shannon and cork so by the time airlines are looking at increasing their routes again, it would be great if WAT was another contender.

hardybuck

BBM77 wrote: »

Don’t see how it was a “stroke of luck” that the extension did not start already. Considering that the airport is clearly financially viable even without passenger services. To my mind it would be better to have the extended runway ASAP.

If it was clearly financially viable it wouldn't have depended on public money to make it possible.

ExoPolitic

hardybuck wrote: »

Are you insinuating that An Bord Pleanala is controlled by the Government?

Controlled is a strong word, I was thinking more along the lines of "persuaded".

Max Powers

hardybuck wrote: »

If it was clearly financially viable it wouldn't have depended on public money to make it possible.

Public money gone into and going into every airport

914

ExoPolitic wrote: »

Controlled is a strong word, I was thinking more along the lines of "persuaded".

I would expect the planning to be successful, the issue will come down to finance's.

Will we actually see the commitment from Government is the question

Wanderer78

hardybuck wrote: »

If it was clearly financially viable it wouldn't have depended on public money to make it possible.

Max Powers wrote: »

Public money gone into and going into every airport

many businesses and sectors require financial funding from public bodies, in order to be, this has always been the case, its a symbiotic relationship

JCX BXC

Max Powers wrote: »

Public money gone into and going into every airport

So, Waterford should just get some then, all other facts irrelevant, purely because everyone else did? God I've heard this point of view too much.

I was very skeptical of demand pre-covid, pushing ahead with this project now is akin to dropping 50's down a drain.

Nothing should commence until we are in a position to fully reflect what effect COVID has had on the aviation sector and how it will recover. There's very little point pumping millions into a white elephant and causing other, massively struggling airports, to be put under further stress.

I appreciate how painfully slow it is to get anything done in the country and if we get into a position where we see that Waterford is or may be viable, at least financially justifiable, then it'll be another few years before any project is completed, however flogging a dead horse at the moment won't achieve anything other than worsening the already decimated public finances.

Wanderer78

JCX BXC wrote: »

So, Waterford should just get some then, all other facts irrelevant, purely because everyone else did? God I've heard this point of view too much.

I was very skeptical of demand pre-covid, pushing ahead with this project now is akin to dropping 50's down a drain.

Nothing should commence until we are in a position to fully reflect what effect COVID has had on the aviation sector and how it will recover. There's very little point pumping millions into a white elephant and causing other, massively struggling airports, to be put under further stress.

I appreciate how painfully slow it is to get anything done in the country and if we get into a position where we see that Waterford is or may be viable, at least financially justifiable, then it'll be another few years before any project is completed, however flogging a dead horse at the moment won't achieve anything other than worsening the already decimated public finances.

fiscal conservatives need to get over this one, the public finances are fine, expanding the public entity of the money supply via deficit spending and expansion is absolutely fine, particular in downturns such as now, as the alternative method of expanding the money supply, via private sector credit creation, has severe limitations at the moment due to the obvious

JCX BXC

Wanderer78 wrote: »

fiscal conservatives need to get over this one, the public finances are fine, expanding the public entity of the money supply via deficit spending and expansion is absolutely fine, particular in downturns such as now, as the alternative method of expanding the money supply, via private sector credit creation, has severe limitations at the moment due to the obvious

Fine for projects which will promote economic expansion, not for something that will sit there unused, gathering dust, for years, in anticipation of a possible need for use in the future. (Which, with growing eco concerns, seems more unlikely as the years go by)

Wanderer78

JCX BXC wrote: »

Fine for projects which will promote economic expansion, not for something that will sit there unused, gathering dust, for years, in anticipation of a possible need for use in the future. (Which, with growing eco concerns, seems more unlikely as the years go by)

yes i will agree, theres deep uncertainty in this sector now more than ever, and you could very well be right in your assumption, but the reality is, thats just what it is. we ve no clue whats gonna happen in the coming months and years regarding the travel sector, there could in fact be a huge expansion of the sector, as soon as we get a handle on this virus, and if thats the case, an expansion of this airport could very quickly become viable, but as we all know, works to deal with such an expansion can and do take time. i certainly wouldnt right off the need for such an expansion, as such a project would in fact stimulate the economy, particularly the private sector, its where deficit borrowing and spending truly comes into its own. it makes sense to me to prepare the airport for an increase in both cargo and passengers, and to make those plans as flexible as possible, in the hope of being prepared for such an increase in traffic, from either and/or both

smellyoldboot

Not going to happen lads, same as the "university" and the North Quays will end up as a few blocks of council flats with defunct retail units on the ground floor. Give it 10/15 years it will be Waterford (formerly Waterford City).

hardybuck

Max Powers wrote: »

Public money gone into and going into every airport

Not Dublin airport.

Wanderer78

hardybuck wrote: »

Not Dublin airport.

is dublin airport completely self sustaining now, as id imagine over the decades of its existence, a significant proportion came from public sources?

hardybuck

Wanderer78 wrote: »

is dublin airport completely self sustaining now, as id imagine over the decades of its existence, a significant proportion came from public sources?

Yes and it has handed huge surpluses back to the exchequer.

Wanderer78

hardybuck wrote:

Yes and it has handed huge surpluses back to the exchequer.

So it requires no state supports or assistance, I somehow find this hard to believe?

hardybuck

Wanderer78 wrote: »

So it requires no state supports or assistance, I somehow find this hard to believe?

They made a profit of €150m in 2019. They'll be funding their new runway themselves.

Wanderer78

hardybuck wrote:

They made a profit of €150m in 2019. They'll be funding their new runway themselves.

So no staff is currently on pup etc?

azimuth17

hardybuck wrote: »

They made a profit of €150m in 2019. They'll be funding their new runway themselves.

And originally, in its early phase it was funded and developed with...state funding.

hardybuck

azimuth17 wrote: »

And originally, in its early phase it was funded and developed with...state funding.

Are you talking about 1940 or something?