Waterford Airport.

man98

O Riain wrote: »

We need the longer runway. Its absolutely vital.

A longer runway and a wider runway, no?

O Riain

man98 wrote: »

O Riain wrote: »

We need the longer runway. Its absolutely vital.

A longer runway and a wider runway, no?

Whatever, if they wanna give us a second one then we will take that too!

purplepanda

Sad to see Waterford Airport losing it's connecting flights, seems that other regional airports get more than enough financial help from central government & the south east region is forgotten as usual. :mad:

Hopefully some money can be raised for a larger runway so that flights are more viable. Best of luck for the future from over the water in Ramsgrange.

Cabaal

Just going to be devils advocate here for a moment but just how popular can Waterford airport be?

- It can't beat the connectivity of Dublin/cork
- Can it beat Dublin or Cork on price?

I think in many respects the motorway to Dublin put a nail in the coffin for Waterford aiport, that and improved public transport links such as Dublin Coach. So now you can get to Dublin much much sooner by both car and bus and it doesn't cost the earth. When you do get to Dublin then odds are your flight is cheaper then Waterford is likely to be.

So it seems the big selling point for Waterford is for people that don't mind spending more money because they want to save time?, But for anyone that wants to try save money they are much more likely to save that many using Cork or Dublin.

Unless the likes of Ryanair could give some sort of agreement of "you spend x on investment, we'll come to Waterford" you very well could end up in a situation where millions are spent but Ryanair don't see it as a viable choice.

Perhaps spending money on improving roads/rail options to Cork might have better long term benefits to Waterford?

BBM77

Cabaal wrote: »

Just going to be devils advocate here for a moment but just how popular can Waterford airport be?

- It can't beat the connectivity of Dublin/cork
- Can it beat Dublin or Cork on price?

I think in many respects the motorway to Dublin put a nail in the coffin for Waterford aiport, that and improved public transport links such as Dublin Coach. So now you can get to Dublin much much sooner by both car and bus and it doesn't cost the earth. When you do get to Dublin then odds are your flight is cheaper then Waterford is likely to be.

So it seems the big selling point for Waterford is for people that don't mind spending more money because they want to save time?, But for anyone that wants to try save money they are much more likely to save that many using Cork or Dublin.

Unless the likes of Ryanair could give some sort of agreement of "you spend x on investment, we'll come to Waterford" you very well could end up in a situation where millions are spent but Ryanair don't see it as a viable choice.

Perhaps spending money on improving roads/rail options to Cork might have better long term benefits to Waterford?

Have to agree on this. I had to travel lately for work via Dublin airport and on the way back on the Friday, after taking a midday flight home, I was crossing the bridge in Waterford at 4pm and that was not speeding down the motorway by any means.

I actually don’t see the level of service in Waterford Airport as something that helps or hinders the development of Waterford. The university issue, shopping in the city centre and developing curse liner business are things of much greater importance. Waterford is too well connected to airports for the lack of an airport in Waterford to be hindrance. It is also relativity easy to get to Shannon Airport as well, even though the road is very bad part of the way. Actually for that matter if there is millions going around spend it on the N24 so Waterford is better connected with the west of the country.

Saying all this I hope Waterford Airport survives and thrives though, I know peoples jobs are on the line.

O Riain

Cabaal wrote: »

Just going to be devils advocate here for a moment but just how popular can Waterford airport be?

- It can't beat the connectivity of Dublin/cork
- Can it beat Dublin or Cork on price?

I think in many respects the motorway to Dublin put a nail in the coffin for Waterford aiport, that and improved public transport links such as Dublin Coach. So now you can get to Dublin much much sooner by both car and bus and it doesn't cost the earth. When you do get to Dublin then odds are your flight is cheaper then Waterford is likely to be.

So it seems the big selling point for Waterford is for people that don't mind spending more money because they want to save time?, But for anyone that wants to try save money they are much more likely to save that many using Cork or Dublin.

Unless the likes of Ryanair could give some sort of agreement of "you spend x on investment, we'll come to Waterford" you very well could end up in a situation where millions are spent but Ryanair don't see it as a viable choice.

Perhaps spending money on improving roads/rail options to Cork might have better long term benefits to Waterford?

Fair point but when you look at the load factors, for flights that were extremely expensive in an airport that doesn't have the kind of access infrastructure that Dublin has, they weren't bad.

I don't think anyone expects a Heathrow but what we do expect is a small functional airport that has connections to a number of major cities in Europe. This is not just to make sure that people can jet off for a holiday easily but to also make sure that any major businesses here are not put off by the lack of an airport. It has been stated before that this is a major factor in large companies choosing to set up somewhere.

BBM77

O Riain wrote: »

...It has been stated before that this is a major factor in large companies choosing to set up somewhere.

This is the thing. They used to say the lack of a motorway to Dublin was a major factor in large companies not setting up here. We have to get over this thing that Waterford is lacking something that is preventing large companies setting up here. It’s BS quite frankly, spouted by people trying to cover their own arse. Galway has no regional airport and it is not stopping Apple investing €850 million developing a data centre there. With easy access to the three major airports Waterford is arguably better served when it comes to air travel.

O Riain

BBM77 wrote: »

O Riain wrote: »

...It has been stated before that this is a major factor in large companies choosing to set up somewhere.

This is the thing. They used to say the lack of a motorway to Dublin was a major factor in large companies not setting up here. We have to get over this thing that Waterford is lacking something that is preventing large companies setting up here. It’s BS quite frankly, spouted by people trying to cover their own arse. Galway has no regional airport and it is not stopping Apple investing €850 million developing a data centre there. With easy access to the three major airports Waterford is arguably better served when it comes to air travel.

Waterford to Shannon: 2 hour 27 min
Galway to Shannon: 1 hour 18 min

Waterford to Dublin: 1 hour 54 min
Galway to Dublin airport: 2 hour 16 min

Waterford to Cork airport: 1 hour 48 min
Galway to Cork airport: 2 hours 53 min

Waterford to Knock: 3 hour 40 min
Galway to Knock: 1 hour 28 min

Galway has two internation airports within an hour and a half. Dublin then is only another 20 minutes further then we are.

To say we are better served is invalid.

BBM77

O Riain wrote: »

Waterford to Shannon: 2 hour 27 min
Galway to Shannon: 1 hour 18 min

Waterford to Dublin: 1 hour 54 min
Galway to Dublin airport: 2 hour 16 min

Waterford to Cork airport: 1 hour 48 min
Galway to Cork airport: 2 hours 53 min

Waterford to Knock: 3 hour 40 min
Galway to Knock: 1 hour 28 min

Galway has two internation airports within an hour and a half. Dublin then is only another 20 minutes further then we are.

To say we are better served is invalid.

No it is not invalid. What I wrote was something I know to be true based on my own personal experience of flying as part of my job and for holidays and from the investments made elsewhere. Bearing in mind that you said that it has been stated before that access to air travel is a major factor in large companies choosing to set up somewhere. Galway has recently got a major investment of the type you are talking about. They don’t have a regional airport and are just severed by good access to surrounding airports the exact same as Waterford is. Quoting the difference in traveling times between Waterford and Galway and these airports is of no importance, some are closer some are further, big deal.

O Riain

BBM77 wrote: »

O Riain wrote: »

Waterford to Shannon: 2 hour 27 min
Galway to Shannon: 1 hour 18 min

Waterford to Dublin: 1 hour 54 min
Galway to Dublin airport: 2 hour 16 min

Waterford to Cork airport: 1 hour 48 min
Galway to Cork airport: 2 hours 53 min

Waterford to Knock: 3 hour 40 min
Galway to Knock: 1 hour 28 min

Galway has two internation airports within an hour and a half. Dublin then is only another 20 minutes further then we are.

To say we are better served is invalid.

No it is not invalid. What I wrote was something I know to be true based on my own personal experience of flying as part of my job and for holidays and from the investments made elsewhere. Bearing in mind that you said that it has been stated before that access to air travel is a major factor in large companies choosing to set up somewhere. Galway has recently got a major investment of the type you are talking about. They don’t have a regional airport and are just severed by good access to surround airports the exact same as Waterford is. Quoting the difference in traveling times between Waterford and Galway and these airports is of no importance, some are closer some are further, big deal.

The closeness of an airport is a factor whether you like to admit it or not. They have two airports just over an hour away and a University just to sweeten the deal. We are two hours from the nearest airport and have no University to seal any deal.

It's not that we are just behind on one issue, we are behind on so many issues it is actually astronomical.

Airports also act as focal points of trips by oversea visitors. They do all these studies trying to figure out why no tourists come and stay in the South East. A big factor is they have no airport to fly into.

BBM77

O Riain wrote: »

The closeness of an airport is a factor whether you like to admit it or not. They have two airports just over an hour away and a University just to sweeten the deal. We are two hours from the nearest airport and have no University to seal any deal.

It's not that we are just behind on one issue, we are behind on so many issues it is actually astronomical.

Airports also act as focal points of trips by oversea visitors. They do all these studies trying to figure out why no tourists come and stay in the South East. A big factor is they have no airport to fly into.

What are you talking about, I never said it was not a factor. And if you care to read what I wrote, I wrote that the university issue is of much greater importance. What I said was there is little difference in Waterford’s access to air travel than Galway's. It is not a reason why large companies have not set up here. Anyway the flights from the other airports are limited so closeness to Dublin is of greatest significance, which Waterford is the closest of all the gateway cities.

man98

It isn't that passengers won't fly from Waterford. In Flybe's last 3 months of operation, they consistently hit 75% loads each flight. Given average prices of €100 - €130 for return flights, that isn't too bad at all. However, if track record is anything to go by, let's presume VLM managed 45% loads while charging €160 - €200 for a return journey. Aer Arann have significantly trimmed back on their frills since leaving Waterford, and if it was marketed under Aer Lingus Regional, there's no reason why there can't be Flybe loads, while still charging slightly above what Flybe could. People see the headline prices and are turned away, they do not care about checked bags and snacks (if loads are anything to go by). I would personally hold out for a decent product at a decent price, which is all that would work in Waterford seemingly.

MentalMario

man98 wrote: »

It isn't that passengers won't fly from Waterford. In Flybe's last 3 months of operation, they consistently hit 75% loads each flight. Given average prices of €100 - €130 for return flights, that isn't too bad at all. However, if track record is anything to go by, let's presume VLM managed 45% loads while charging €160 - €200 for a return journey. Aer Arann have significantly trimmed back on their frills since leaving Waterford, and if it was marketed under Aer Lingus Regional, there's no reason why there can't be Flybe loads, while still charging slightly above what Flybe could. People see the headline prices and are turned away, they do not care about checked bags and snacks (if loads are anything to go by). I would personally hold out for a decent product at a decent price, which is all that would work in Waterford seemingly.

Some good points here.

RE the checked bags. The 'free' checked bags were costing VLM nothing - they'd still have had to charge the same price even if they weren't offering it.

TheQuietFella

http://www.waterford-news.ie/2016/06/04/airline-withdraws-service-from-waterford-to-london-luton/

JCX BXC

Last scheduled passenger commercial flight departed at 14:35. The aircraft did not return to WAT this evening, but instead positioned to Rotterdam. That's the end of passenger ops at WAT for the foreseeable future.

Squidvicious

I suppose the big questions are when we'll get a new operator and whether the lack of success for VLM will put off new operators. Unfortunately, Waterford Airport is beginning to develop a track record of airlines leaving, presumably because they deem the airport not profitable enough; Aer Arann, Flybe and now VLM. That said, VLM is currently in receivership so you'd imagine that their poor financial shape in recent times can hardly have helped. Still, I fear it could be some time before we have a new operator.

tomobriendeise

There is no chance of flights there till at least next March. Any airlines that would be able to operate from Waterford are in the middle of there summer season and have already probably got there winter season already sorted. The only way it could happen now is if an airline pull's out of another route and add's a Waterford route that in itself would be a huge risk for any airline. I believe the airport were due to hold meetings with staff yesterday so I would say with no airlines, hardly any private activity and only the Search & Rescue that things might not be about to improve for a long time

air2000

Hi Tom

You have been busy, new profile here boards and same on pprune and a new facebook profile.

For all reading "ToB" is a current disgruntled employee waiting to release some posts once things dont go his way.

2K

Kotek Besar

air2000 wrote: »

Hi Tom

You have been busy, new profile here boards and same on pprune and a new facebook profile.

For all reading "ToB" is a current disgruntled employee waiting to release some posts once things dont go his way.

2K

Employee of what?

notharrypotter

Kotek Besar wrote: »

Employee of what?

Waterford Airport?

CantGetNoSleep

Nothing really wrong with Tom's post there

mooseknunkle

https://twitter.com/flyvlm/status/745571990820487168

Cabaal

mooseknunkle wrote: »

https://twitter.com/flyvlm/status/745571990820487168

So it was dead in Waterford regardless,
Nothing anyone could have done about it

Wanderer78

tankbarry wrote: »

As some will know here I am a member of the staff in the airport and I feel its only right to reply to the report in the Munster Express express about short-time cut's to the same member's of staff again.



The airport have not given the staff their 4 week notice of cut's to hours as the airport are legally bound to do. Some staff have now no choice but to take legal advice and take action against the Airport. People should know the truth. In Jan 2013 we were put on reduced hours in fact we were put on week on week off our shift pay was cut from I think 18% to 8%. We were told that we could claim social welfare for the other week in just over 2 years on week on week off I was only able to claim 9 week's social welfare. In them 2 years we also lost our sick pay. Now the airport want to cut us from 39 hrs to 21 hrs, we will also be on a lowered shift allowance which we have been on for 5 years , we will be entitled to some Social Welfare but the way the shifts run at most we could hope for is to claim for 2 day's at most. These cut's are not across the board the same staff are being hit hardest again. The article in the Munster Express which came out this morning was a unfair reflection on what is happening. The airport CEO Desmond O Flynn and airport manager Aidan Power have NOT negotiated with staff we have basically being told to hours are being cut and that's it NO NO negotiating. I think us as Union Members we might have no choice but to vote for Industrial Action it is not something that we want to do but we might have no choice. . Remember other staff have not been hit the way we have which again makes cut's against us totally biased and unfair.

best of luck with it

notharrypotter

tankbarry wrote: »

As some will know here I am a member of the staff in the airport and I feel its only right to reply to the report in the Munster Express express about short-time cut's to the same member's of staff again.



The airport have not given the staff their 4 week notice of cut's to hours as the airport are legally bound to do. Some staff have now no choice but to take legal advice and take action against the Airport. People should know the truth. In Jan 2013 we were put on reduced hours in fact we were put on week on week off our shift pay was cut from I think 18% to 8%. We were told that we could claim social welfare for the other week in just over 2 years on week on week off I was only able to claim 9 week's social welfare. In them 2 years we also lost our sick pay. Now the airport want to cut us from 39 hrs to 21 hrs, we will also be on a lowered shift allowance which we have been on for 5 years , we will be entitled to some Social Welfare but the way the shifts run at most we could hope for is to claim for 2 day's at most. These cut's are not across the board the same staff are being hit hardest again. The article in the Munster Express which came out this morning was a unfair reflection on what is happening. The airport CEO Desmond O Flynn and airport manager Aidan Power have NOT negotiated with staff we have basically being told to hours are being cut and that's it NO NO negotiating. I think us as Union Members we might have no choice but to vote for Industrial Action it is not something that we want to do but we might have no choice. . Remember other staff have not been hit the way we have which again makes cut's against us totally biased and unfair.

Curious what cuts if any the management group are taking.
Can someone link the Minster Express article?

Fox Uniform

hi tankbarry

You live in a very simple world don't you. The airport like every other regional airport in Ireland is a licenced Airport and there is a minimum level required by the aviation authority regardless of activity.

Why did you not mention that the "Supervisors" are also the Fire Officers, to cover The helicopter 3 are needed for 24 hour cover 7 days it cannot be covered with less. They have been on reduced hours since 2013

Air traffic control has 3 which includes the air traffic manager, so aswel as covering daily Air traffic duties he also has an office job to do. like above to cover the helicopter 3 are needed and again they are on reduced hours since 2013. Kerry regularly loan an air traffic controller to Waterford to cover gaps.

There is 1 finance manager on reduced hours

1 is one operations manager who is also the senior fire officer and covers a number of others areas of operation

There is 1 airport manager who also is a security manager and technical manager and covers a number of other areas

1 ceo who is active in returning schedule services and making good progress from what I hear

Compare the above to any other regional and Waterford is actually understaffed. You fully are aware of the above but would rather spread disinformation to benefit your own means

Wanderer78

Must be laundry day!

notharrypotter

Fox Uniform wrote: »

hi tankbarry

You live in a very simple world don't you. The airport like every other regional airport in Ireland is a licenced Airport and there is a minimum level required by the aviation authority regardless of activity.

Why did you not mention that the "Supervisors" are also the Fire Officers, to cover The helicopter 3 are needed for 24 hour cover 7 days it cannot be covered with less. They have been on reduced hours since 2013

Air traffic control has 3 which includes the air traffic manager, so aswel as covering daily Air traffic duties he also has an office job to do. like above to cover the helicopter 3 are needed and again they are on reduced hours since 2013. Kerry regularly loan an air traffic controller to Waterford to cover gaps.

There is 1 finance manager on reduced hours

1 is one operations manager who is also the senior fire officer and covers a number of others areas of operation

There is 1 airport manager who also is a security manager and technical manager and covers a number of other areas

1 ceo who is active in returning schedule services and making good progress from what I hear

Compare the above to any other regional and Waterford is actually understaffed. You fully are aware of the above but would rather spread disinformation to benefit your own means

So the CEO, Operations Manager, and Airport Manager have not taken any reduction.

lassykk

Someone thought better of their earlier posts on this topic and deleted them I see. Thought this was going to turn into a employee dispute before our eyes

notharrypotter

lassykk wrote: »

Someone thought better of their earlier posts on this topic and deleted them I see. Thought this was going to turn into a employee dispute before our eyes

What did I miss?