Splitting South eastern hospitals

road_high

Dunmoreroader wrote: »

Apparantly the consultants in St. Luke's have voted overwhelmingly to secede from the Southeast hospital network. This has nothing to do with clinical excellence or the best interests of patients in Carlow/Kilkenny, it's all politics. The knock on negative effects at WRH will be enormous despite Reilly's weasel words of reassurance.
Shame on them.
Ok silent majority in Kilkenny, time to get off your arses and protest!

Why have they voted to leave? St Luke's is a pretty well run hospital so if they decide to leave we all deserve to know why? Medical politics, please explain?

wellboytoo

mfitzy wrote: »

Why have they voted to leave? St Luke's is a pretty well run hospital so if they decide to leave we all deserve to know why? Medical politics, please explain?

Now you are being obtuse, they have an agenda contrary to the common good, ie they have their own agenda.
Medical politics is Machavellian in its complexity , God knows what the real storey going on here is!

road_high

wellboytoo wrote: »

Now you are being obtuse, they have an agenda contrary to the common good, ie they have their own agenda.
Medical politics is Machavellian in its complexity , God knows what the real storey going on here is!

Is this your opinion or you know this for a fact and/or work with these people? Cos that's quite an acquisition. I'd really like to hear from the consultants and see their reasons and make up my own mind then. I believe that's fair enough!

Sully

It seems completely stupid that the people of Kilkenny will be expected to travel to Dublin, in probably a much busier hospital than Waterford. Regardless of how busy it is, Waterford is a short drive down the motorway whereas heading to Dublin is going to bring an increase in traffic and battling heavy traffic all the way through the Naas Road and so on. It makes absolutely no sense. So what the hell are the reason why these consultants decided to ditch Waterford and regroup with Dublin? It doesn't make sense and tbh, the folk of Kilkenny should be out in large numbers insisting this crazy idea goes no further. I would hope that the Minister when he is reviewing hospital grouping will see how completely stupid this is and how patients lives will be a risk. In addition, it would surely make sense for their public representative to see how stupid this is and ensure that they remain with WRH. The mind boggles as to how the folk in Kilkenny don't see this as an issue.

redtelephone

John McGuinness FF TD was on KCLR this morning and spoke about the difficulties of transporting sick people to and from Dublin, especially when there are facilities already in the region, half the distance away. I may be wrong but I got the impression he doesn't think much of the idea. He also mentioned that Carlow GPs generally have very little contact with WRH, do seem to be of the opinion that aligning with a Dublin hospital would be the best option for Carlow. I wonder why he mentioned Carlow specifically. Is Carlow about to be hived off from the SE region, and what implications would that have, especially for St Luke's?

Dunmoreroader

http://www.facebook.com/sehaalliance

road_high

Discussion on Sue Nunn show now....

road_high

Read on Facebook somewhere St. Lukes consultants voted overwhelmingly to leave the south east grouping by 14-2 last week. Can anyone confirm this?

Dozen Wicked Words

Rumoured that the Dr/Prof mentioned in A and E article on other thread is very keen on tie-in with St. James. Otherwise, quite a lot of young consultants in St. Lukes who would have gone through the Dublin hospital system frequently and more recently getting to consultant level so presumably have a stronger affinity with those hospitals.

road_high

dooferoaks wrote: »

Rumoured that the Dr/Prof mentioned in A and E article on other thread is very keen on tie-in with St. James. Otherwise, quite a lot of young consultants in St. Lukes who would have gone through the Dublin hospital system frequently and more recently getting to consultant level so presumably have a stronger affinity with those hospitals.

I guess their affiliation and professional contacts are firmly rooted in Dublin. Some of them probably even live in Dublin.
Naoise Coogan was on KCLR this morning, heard her snippet. She was former Editor of the Kilkenny Advertiser. Working for Connect Ireland now http://www.connectireland.com/. This iniatitive is based in Kilkenny which is another positive thing by the way.
Anyhow, she seemed in favour of the new tie up with St. James'. Especially as it's going to be the new Childrens Hospital campus.

foxcoverteddy

If anything is a turn off is this constant Kilkenny/Waterford thing. Catbear hit the nail on the head, get rid of the old boundaries and counties, this would of course include the councils and make a fresh start.
Redraw the boundaries, it could well include Clonmel and Carrick.
Lets build a new hospital with all the facilities to service the community, including children and all forms of radical treatments.
Pick a spot in the middle of the new area and a greefield site, plus a decent road and transport connection from all points.
At the moment we are playing with people.

road_high

foxcoverteddy wrote: »

If anything is a turn off is this constant Kilkenny/Waterford thing. Catbear hit the nail on the head, get rid of the old boundaries and counties, this would of course include the councils and make a fresh start.
Redraw the boundaries, it could well include Clonmel and Carrick.
Lets build a new hospital with all the facilities to service the community, including children and all forms of radical treatments.
Pick a spot in the middle of the new area and a greefield site, plus a decent road and transport connection from all points.
At the moment we are playing with people.

Sorry now I stopped reading at this point....you're living on a different planet if you think that's gona happen....lovely idea but totally unfeasible on soo many levels.

road_high

redtelephone wrote: »

John McGuinness FF TD was on KCLR this morning and spoke about the difficulties of transporting sick people to and from Dublin, especially when there are facilities already in the region, half the distance away. I may be wrong but I got the impression he doesn't think much of the idea. He also mentioned that Carlow GPs generally have very little contact with WRH, do seem to be of the opinion that aligning with a Dublin hospital would be the best option for Carlow. I wonder why he mentioned Carlow specifically. Is Carlow about to be hived off from the SE region, and what implications would that have, especially for St Luke's?

Yea I think you are onto something. St. Lukes is Carlow Kk General Hospital and if medics in Carlow feel a tie in with Dublin serves them better then they are equally entitled as their local hospital to want it linked with Dublin. So maybe that was also factored into majorly to St. Lukes Consultants decision/vote. St. Lukes could not go it alone without Carlow as it would not have the population to support services.

I also feel St. Lukes needs better access for Carlow (and Kilkenny) people and have the ring road extended to the Freshford road proper. Pity it was not somewhere out the Carlow road but that's an inertia we live with.

Bards

mfitzy wrote: »

Read on Facebook somewhere St. Lukes consultants voted overwhelmingly to leave the south east grouping by 14-2 last week. Can anyone confirm this?

Aparantly there are 7 Consultants in St. Lukes out of a total of 84 throughout the S.E. Hospital network with the majority based in WRH

Seems like the minority can hold the majority to ransom - some democracy we live in

Why hasn' someont told the Secret Seven that if the want to work in Dublin, then apply for a job there.

Dozen Wicked Words

Bards wrote: »

Aparantly there are 7 Consultants in St. Lukes out of a total of 84 throughout the S.E. Hospital network with the majority based in WRH

Seems like the minority can hold the majority to ransom - some democracy we live in

Why hasn' someont told the Secret Seven that if the want to work in Dublin, then apply for a job there.

Couple of things. So is it 14 consultants in St. Lukes or 7 who want to leave? And if the majority of consultants really are in WRH its no surprise they don't want to leave is it. Maybe it would be better to remove WRH based consultants out of your equations altogether.

Or in other words, WRH consultants want what's best for WRH, perhaps St. Luke's consultants want what's best for St. Lukes.

road_high

dooferoaks wrote: »

Couple of things. So is it 14 consultants in St. Lukes or 7 who want to leave? And if the majority of consultants really are in WRH its no surprise they don't want to leave is it. Maybe it would be better to remove WRH based consultants out of your equations altogether.

Or in other words, WRH consultants want what's best for WRH, perhaps St. Luke's consultants want what's best for St. Lukes.

I read 14 want to leave, just 2 to stay with Wrh. Which is an overwhelming majority. I read that in Facebook so I'd just advise caution.

Deise Vu

dooferoaks wrote: »

Couple of things. So is it 14 consultants in St. Lukes or 7 who want to leave? And if the majority of consultants really are in WRH its no surprise they don't want to leave is it. Maybe it would be better to remove WRH based consultants out of your equations altogether.

Or in other words, WRH consultants want what's best for WRH, perhaps St. Luke's consultants want what's best for St. Lukes.

Has it dawned on you that possibly, just possibly, St Lukes Consultants want what is best for St Lukes Consultants? Does your CV say you are a consultant in a provincial hospital attached to another provincial hospital or are you attached to a branch of a 'prestigious' Dublin teaching hospital.

Someone pointed out earlier that a lot of the Kilkenny consultants live in Dublin anyway. If this is the case they obviously have no attachment to the South East. Given the extra distance, and driving hassle until the M9 opened, I would imagine the WRH consutants all live in the SE. You could question their motivation that they want to remain a 'top dog' with WRH being a teaching hospital and having most of the services, but whatever their motivation it is inevitable that if the catchment area is decimated, services will inevitably be decimated too.

That is not good for people in the area on economic grounds (more salaries gone, costs of attending Cork / Dublin) let alone health grounds.

Dozen Wicked Words

Deise Vu wrote: »

Has it dawned on you that possibly, just possibly, St Lukes Consultants want what is best for St Lukes Consultants? Does your CV say you are a consultant in a provincial hospital attached to another provincial hospital or are you attached to a branch of a 'prestigious' Dublin teaching hospital. ...............

So St Lukes Consultants are motivated by self interest? You could well be right. I would imagine those Consultants in WRH are motivated by exactly the same thing. Blinkered if you expect otherwise.

Deise Vu

dooferoaks wrote: »

So St Lukes Consultants are motivated by self interest? You could well be right. I would imagine those Consultants in WRH are motivated by exactly the same thing. Blinkered if you expect otherwise.

Any chance you'd read all my post. It's not that long.

Dozen Wicked Words

Deise Vu wrote: »

Any chance you'd read all my post. It's not that long.

And says nothing new

Edit:
In fact my posts say nothing new, so wont bother any more. I personally don't care where St. Lukes is linked with as long as people can get out patients appointments or transfer to a different hospital without waiting days or weeks on end in a bed in Lukes getting progressively worse. Be that in Waterford or Dublin I have no preference.

Deise Vu

dooferoaks wrote: »

And says nothing new

Edit:
In fact my posts say nothing new, so wont bother any more. I personally don't care where St. Lukes is linked with as long as people can get out patients appointments or transfer to a different hospital without waiting days or weeks on end in a bed in Lukes getting progressively worse. Be that in Waterford or Dublin I have no preference.

I'll spell it out for you so. Consultants are just like everybody else, they are motivated by money, prestige and power. They will tell you patient care is everything because it is a very handy shield to wear, but you try finding a consultant in a hospital at a weekend when corridors are full of people on trollies for want of a consultant to discharge some perfectly healthy people from the wards. You won't find one. They'll come in an emergency alright, as long as they are handsomely rewarded for it.

For that reason, which is one of the main problems in the health service, I do not trust anything the consultant's say and that includes in WRH. It just happens that the goal of the WRH copnsutants coincides with what should be the goal of patients: keep the services local or we are all going to suffer long-term.

Dozen Wicked Words

Deise Vu wrote: »

I'll spell it out for you so. Consultants are just like everybody else, they are motivated by money, prestige and power. They will tell you patient care is everything because it is a very handy shield to wear, but you try finding a consultant in a hospital at a weekend when corridors are full of people on trollies for want of a consultant to discharge some perfectly healthy people from the wards. You won't find one. They'll come in an emergency alright, as long as they are handsomely rewarded for it.

For that reason, which is one of the main problems in the health service, I do not trust anything the consultant's say and that includes in WRH. It just happens that the goal of the WRH copnsutants coincides with what should be the goal of patients: keep the services local or we are all going to suffer long-term.

Mmm you make a very cromulent point.

Deise Vu

dooferoaks wrote: »

Mmm you make a very cromulent point.

Whereas you just don't have anything intelligent to contribute.

road_high

I think if you take off the Blue and White rose tinted glasses for a second you'd see they are all valid points.
It amuses me that people here have the arrogance to argue they know better than St. Lukes consultants, yet WRH's consultants are scarecly questioned.
St. Lukes is one of the best run hospitals in the country and I personally have every faith in the management and consultants that are and will do what's best for the people it serves.

I don't buy all this crap about James' gobbling up St. Lukes budget and even longer waits in Dublin hospitals. It's scaremongering of the highest order. And that's before we hear how we are going to die on the big bad road to Dublin in ambulances.

If the relationship between St. Lukes and WRH were as good and perfect for the hospital, then why oh why are they voting to break away? Apart from reading about how it's all down to their professional ego's at play, I've read or seen nothing to convince me that are not doing what's best for the Hosp and it's patient catchment.

road_high

dooferoaks wrote: »

And says nothing new

Edit:
In fact my posts say nothing new, so wont bother any more. I personally don't care where St. Lukes is linked with as long as people can get out patients appointments or transfer to a different hospital without waiting days or weeks on end in a bed in Lukes getting progressively worse. Be that in Waterford or Dublin I have no preference.

This is exactly my point too. I don't care either so long as it's best for the patients. If the Consultants view this as the best route to go then that's good enough for me. Clearly, they actually have a good relationship built up with James' or else this wouldn't be happening.

redtelephone

Looks like Phil Hogan is going against the majority view and wants the South-Eastern hospital group to stay intact. Wonder does he know what's in the report?
http://kclr96fm.com/news/hogan-wants-to-keep-south-east-hospitals-together/

Sully

redtelephone wrote: »

Looks like Phil Hogan is going against the majority view and wants the South-Eastern hospital group to stay intact. Wonder does he know what's in the report?
http://kclr96fm.com/news/hogan-wants-to-keep-south-east-hospitals-together/

He seemed to be suggesting back in November, in an interview with the same show, that this was all bull**** and scaremongering.

I understand that numerous TDs across the South East were campaigning for his support anyway, including our Waterford TDs.

wellboytoo

redtelephone wrote: »

Looks like Phil Hogan is going against the majority view and wants the South-Eastern hospital group to stay intact. Wonder does he know what's in the report?
http://kclr96fm.com/news/hogan-wants-to-keep-south-east-hospitals-together/

The Majority of where? Kilkenny or the Southeast?

Dozen Wicked Words

Will be interested to see how St. Luke's does in the HIQA inspection. Bed situation there currently is dire and no prospect of improving. Beds on the corridors of a ward and beds added to bays against health and safety and infection control rules after Christmas which is illegal/highly dubious but think they were gone by the inspection. 10 million on an A and E with no beds to put patients in after they are seen there is great. Not sure Waterford or Dublin will make a difference at the moment.

redtelephone

wellboytoo wrote: »

The Majority of where? Kilkenny or the Southeast?

Kilkenny - this is the Kilkenny forum, no? And I am not one of that majority.