Splitting South eastern hospitals

catbear

fuzzy dunlop wrote: »

Well as I am not a mind reader perhaps you can tell me what goes on behind the HSE seeing as you brought this enigmatic place into the conversation.I used a turn of of phrase that is common parlance in the English Language wherever it is spoken.You associated it with some unspecified anti-social activity. And btw I didn't start the thread.So keep your own side of the street clean and tighten up on your reading.

As already noted to the mod i'm keeping this civil, if you have a problem with that use the report button. Otherwise we're done.

Mattshanahan

The report coming before Minister Reilly is purported to support a twinning of hospitals within the region with academic centres. This would see Kilkenny / Wexford services being referred to dublins maters or st James and Waterford /south Tipp moving to cork regional hospital. The rationale behind this is mired in medial politics seeing both Dublin and Cork regions grabbing a larger share of the shrinking healthcare budget by stripping resources from the south east region.
The resulting downgrade of the south east regional hospital in Waterford will result in the loss of cardiology intervention and cancer services in the south east and other disciplines will follow thereafter. Considering the delay in accessing hospital services in Dublin and cork presently why do people assume that these hospitals can accommodate the increased patient loads from the south east region? In addition emergency medical intervention will require south Kilkenny and Wexford people to find ambulance service to Dublin. I wish you luck! The golden hour for regional patients will be spent traversing to Dublin or Cork AFTER you find an ambulance. Anybody who thinks that this move is progressive in any way or will advance patient care in the south east region is living in cloud cuckooland and has obviously not educated themselves on the issues. This policy must be rejected by all citizens in the south east region or lives will be lost as a result of this policy change. North Kilkenny people may feel they are equidistant to Dublin for services but for south Kilkenny patients I would rather depend on the cardiology suite in Waterford within 30 miles than Dublin and it's ambulance services. Perhaps we should wait until we have an adequate death toll due to extended delays in accessing emergency medical care from this
Policy change so that we can say we told you so!

WAKE UP SOUTH EAST REGION- OUR HEALTHCARE PROVISION IS UNDER ASSAULT AND WE ARE SITTING ON OUR HANDS

Dozen Wicked Words

Not going to quote your paragraph Matt but couple of points. So really you are fighting for South Kilkennys concerns, effectively you want to spilt services further?? Also a minor point about Cardiology, not sure if you knew, but if you get referred for an Angiogram or Angioplasty or Pacemaker insertion from Kilkenny you wouldn't go to WRH, you would go to St. James.

Dunmoreroader

People in Kilkenny should be outraged about the threatened downgrading of Waterford Regional Hospital and the breakup of the South-East Hospitals Group. If this goes ahead, people in Kilkenny will have to travel to already over-crowd Dublin hospitals for acute services rather than to Waterford Regional, not to mention the job losses for, yes, people from S. kilkenny too.
It will be a disaster for the entire South-East region which the government are intent on breaking up anyway.
A march is being held in Waterford to protest about it next Saturday details on;
http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=334379116660776&set=a.200780250020664.40741.188354617929894&type=1#!/SaveWaterford
Come down and support Kilkenny's acute regional hospital or why not organise a local protest? After all you've got the senior govt. minister and like all politicians, Minister Hogan hears it best from those who's votes he depends on.

comeraghs

Please! People of Kilkenny! Fight & fight hard to preserve services in the South-East!

Cabaal

comeraghs wrote: »

Please! People of Kilkenny! Fight & fight hard to preserve services in the South-East!

Your posts are pretty amusing,

You "appear" to care about the south east but you very easily turn on others in the south easy at every chance you can get...last weeks announcement about Kilkenny shows just that.

You appear incapable of thinking of the bigger picture in the south east when it comes to investment unless Waterford gets it above anyone else and the only time you will post anything positive in this forum is when you want support for a Waterford compaign.

road_high

Cabaal wrote: »

Your posts are pretty amusing,

You "appear" to care about the south east but you very easily turn on others in the south easy at every chance you can get...last weeks announcement about Kilkenny shows just that.

You appear incapable of thinking of the bigger picture in the south east when it comes to investment unless Waterford gets it above anyone else and the only time you will post anything positive in this forum is when you want support for a Waterford compaign.

My thoughts exactly...when a very legitimate investment is being made in KK tourism it is seen by this poster as "parochial" and "stealing Waterford's money" apparently. This is despite the fact Kilkenny's profile is far higher in this regard.
But when it comes to the hospital issue then we are supposed to stand full square behind them after reading such tripe previous...give me a break...

comeraghs

I have no problem with investing in Kilkenny. My problem was that Phil Hogan said "Ireland had no money" when amalgamating Waterford city & county but then found 5.5 m to invest in his own parish.


Are you really so anti-Waterford that you want WRH to lose it's services to Dublin & Cork?

Can you not see that travelling 40/45 minutes to WRH from most of county Kilkenny is better for Kk people than travelling 90 mins or more depending on traffic to a Dublin hospital.


https://www.facebook.com/keith.onullain#!/events/503665246317907/

road_high

comeraghs wrote: »

I have no problem with investing in Kilkenny. My problem was that Phil Hogan said "Ireland had no money" when amalgamating Waterford city & county but then found 5.5 m to invest in his own parish.


Are you really so anti-Waterford that you want WRH to lose it's services to Dublin & Cork?

Can you not see that travelling 40/45 minutes to WRH from most of county Kilkenny is better for Kk people than travelling 90 mins or more depending on traffic to a Dublin hospital.


https://www.facebook.com/keith.onullain#!/events/503665246317907/

You clearly do though...."stealing Waterford's money" was/is your exact phrase in another thread so I find it a little hard to listen to when the shoe is on the other foot.

comeraghs

Don't listen then!
These services aren't going to be transferred to Kilkenny, They will be in Dublin, Are you happy to travel to Dublin rather than Waterford, If you are, then don't support the protest, if you aren't then please do.

Cabaal

comeraghs wrote: »

I have no problem with investing in Kilkenny.

comeraghs, nonsense and lies on your part....you dislike Kilkenny as a whole and its clear from your previous posts.

My problem was that Phil Hogan said "Ireland had no money" when amalgamating Waterford city & county but then found 5.5 m to invest in his own parish.

5.5million is a one off investment in Kilkenny, same as the 1.5million Waterford is getting this year and the 9.5million Waterford got when Ireland was also broke in 2010 (you didn't complain about that!).

Merging city and county councils is a long term cost shaving and its happening to Limerick as well...not just Waterford,

Are you really so anti-Waterford that you want WRH to lose it's services to Dublin & Cork?

I'm not anti-Waterford and never have been, I feel Waterford has made many of its own mistakes for example how it views people it elects regardless of the party....the long and short of it is it turns of them regardless of good or bad they've done.

As for WRH before I'd comment on stuff being taken out of it I'd like to see the facts and figures, whats been taken, why and the numbers to support this.

road_high

comeraghs wrote: »

Don't listen then!
These services aren't going to be transferred to Kilkenny, They will be in Dublin, Are you happy to travel to Dublin rather than Waterford, If you are, then don't support the protest, if you aren't then please do.

None of the arguments here have been very convincing. Much hysteria with little facts. I would certainly not like to see WRH downgraded from what it offers at present but at the sametime, would I be that bothered about having to travel an extra half hour to a specialised Dublin hospital with all the expertise and specialisties more positive outcomes for cetain treatments? Not particularly.

fuzzy dunlop

Cabaal wrote: »

I'm not anti-Waterford and never have been, I feel Waterford has made many of its own mistakes for example how it views people it elects regardless of the party....the long and short of it is it turns of them regardless of good or bad they've done.

What complete nonsense.Care to elaborate with an example?

fuzzy dunlop

mfitzy wrote: »

None of the arguments here have been very convincing. Much hysteria with little facts. I would certainly not like to see WRH downgraded from what it offers at present but at the sametime, would I be that bothered about having to travel an extra half hour to a specialised Dublin hospital with all the expertise and specialisties more positive outcomes for cetain treatments? Not particularly.

It's not an extra half hour.For most of kilkenny it is far more than that especially even without traffic congestion. Also it might be alright for you in full health but for sick and elderly the journey could be excruciating.

blobbyblob

Aside from all the parochial arguments going on here which are muddying the waters, here's a little bit of context as to what went on at last weeks meeting regarding the potential realignment of health services in the south east via waterford councillor mary roche..

cllrmaryroche.blogspot.ie/2012/11/notes-from-wrh-meeting-tonight-11112.html?m=1

without knowing a great deal about it, my perception of the situation is

1. this 'proposal' still has to be submitted for the governments consideration
2. a committee was originally tasked to examine this issue but has only met once
3. the chairman of the committee has put the current 'leaked' version together by his own accord
4. should it be submitted and adopted there will be up to 1000 job losses
5. the link between wrh, rcs and wit would be damaged or broken
6. kilkenny and wexford will align with dublin for acute services and waterford and clonmel with cork
7. people will die without rapid response and appropriate local treatment (i presume st lukes, wexford and waterford will still operate a full ambulance service???)
8. waterford are totally against the proposal, kilkenny are split and no idea where clonmel and wexford lie

apologies if i have over simplified this but ive spoken to people over the last few days who are running around with hair on fire but have no knowledge whatsoever about whats going on.

there are two issues at play here
1. the threat and implication of the report and
2. the approach being taken by waterford representatives.

if this is truly a regional issue surely last weeks meeting should have had equal representation from all of the region rather than just waterford. Meeting minutes saying "we need to get kilkenny onside" only serve to be divisive or maybe thats just me.

Hope some of this helps...

road_high

fuzzy dunlop wrote: »

It's not an extra half hour.For most of kilkenny it is far more than that especially even without traffic congestion. Also it might be alright for you in full health but for sick and elderly the journey could be excruciating.

Depends on which Dublin hospital. No-one seems to be able to answer thast one for me?. I can be in Tallaght in an hour. Wrh would be at least 35-40 mins (all going well).
My own personal opinion/choice would always be the Dublin hospital. They have the specialities and expertise that for me far outweighs any time savings or local preferences. I'd rather feel assured I was getting the best treatment possible if it meant traveling a bit further, then so be it.
Would St. Lukes for instance be sharing consultants with a Dublin hospital? I can't see how that would be a wholly bad thing again given their expertise and patient through put that would exist in the Capital.

puddie

Hi I'm from north Kilkenny but I work in WRH have done for the last 12 years and while yes I acknowledge that the people of Waterford do indeed suffer from a healthy dose of paranoia when it comes to Kilkenny this is not one of those times.
The proposed restructuring of the south east health service will destroy the region. As it stands the south east has 3 general hospitals Kilkenny, Clonmel and Wexford and the regional hospital in Waterford these 4 hospitals serve a population of around 500,000.
Now I think we can all agree that while the service is not perfect it does work for the majority of people most of the time.
The suggested changes include the complete downgrading of WRH with the loss of orthopedic, ENT, Eye, Vascular Surgery, Cancer services and Cardiac services. These services will be split between Dublin and cork, you will have 500,000 added into the catchment area of other hospitals that are already running at capacity.
Now how will that affect the people of Kilkenny, ok at the moment yes some people may already be referred to Dublin for planned procedures but in an emergency a lot of people come to Waterford so lets just say you collapse in danesfort with a heart attack you need angioplasty there is a 90min window where this is successful by the time the ambulance is with you will make it to Waterford in time you won't make it to Dublin. As for orthopaedic kilcreene is serviced by visiting consultants that are based in Waterford if they are no longer there it will close. Colorectal Cancer Surgery and screening for the region takes place in Waterford it will be gone people some at the vulnerable time of there life will have either travel to cork or Dublin.
They are just a few examples there are many more but I'm not scaremongering when I say if this downgrading goes ahead it will lead to needless deaths.
Instead of decimating the south east health services we should actually be fighting to get more because as a region we are constantly performing well.
Least we forget the report that has been leaked is by a professor based in cork who undoubtedly has a bias where cork is concerned and wishes to bring more services there but at what cost to the rest of us.

I urge you all to inform yourselves on this topic it is of the upmost importance to the region we need to keep our hospitals strong we need to keep our services here we need to keep our own people looked after.

road_high

Hi puddie, thanks for the input. Some definite insider food for thought there.
Was unaware so many servcies could leave WRH? 'Cos all I was reading until now was kind of mass hysteria. I figured there would be sharing with Cork rather than moving it all down there. That seems crazy in terms of how much has been spent over the years putting those there in the first place.

fuzzy dunlop

puddie wrote: »

Hi I'm from north Kilkenny but I work in WRH have done for the last 12 years and while yes I acknowledge that the people of Waterford do indeed suffer from a healthy dose of paranoia when it comes to Kilkenny this is not one of those times.
The proposed restructuring of the south east health service will destroy the region. As it stands the south east has 3 general hospitals Kilkenny, Clonmel and Wexford and the regional hospital in Waterford these 4 hospitals serve a population of around 500,000.
Now I think we can all agree that while the service is not perfect it does work for the majority of people most of the time.
The suggested changes include the complete downgrading of WRH with the loss of orthopedic, ENT, Eye, Vascular Surgery, Cancer services and Cardiac services. These services will be split between Dublin and cork, you will have 500,000 added into the catchment area of other hospitals that are already running at capacity.
Now how will that affect the people of Kilkenny, ok at the moment yes some people may already be referred to Dublin for planned procedures but in an emergency a lot of people come to Waterford so lets just say you collapse in danesfort with a heart attack you need angioplasty there is a 90min window where this is successful by the time the ambulance is with you will make it to Waterford in time you won't make it to Dublin. As for orthopaedic kilcreene is serviced by visiting consultants that are based in Waterford if they are no longer there it will close. Colorectal Cancer Surgery and screening for the region takes place in Waterford it will be gone people some at the vulnerable time of there life will have either travel to cork or Dublin.
They are just a few examples there are many more but I'm not scaremongering when I say if this downgrading goes ahead it will lead to needless deaths.
Instead of decimating the south east health services we should actually be fighting to get more because as a region we are constantly performing well.
Least we forget the report that has been leaked is by a professor based in cork who undoubtedly has a bias where cork is concerned and wishes to bring more services there but at what cost to the rest of us.

I urge you all to inform yourselves on this topic it is of the upmost importance to the region we need to keep our hospitals strong we need to keep our services here we need to keep our own people looked after.

Thanks for the post puddie. As WRH is one of the busiest Aand E'in the country if not the busiest it does rather well considering he funding it is allocated. If I am not mistaken WRH,Kilkenny and Wexford have always been among the most efficient in the country along with Mullingar if I remember correctly. What will happen here is each of the South Eastern hospitals will become periphery hospitals in a larger region.Also I think any assumption that a Dublin Hospital will have more expertise is incorrect. Unless it is the Mater or Beaumont I doubt very much it will be an improvement on WRH. There is no fat on the hospitals in the SE region. Any inefficiences that exist in the working practice of the Dublin and Cork hospitals should be addressed and any other hospital for that matter.

puddie

mfitzy wrote: »

Hi puddie, thanks for the input. Some definite insider food for thought there.
Was unaware so many servcies could leave WRH? 'Cos all I was reading until now was kind of mass hysteria. I figured there would be sharing with Cork rather than moving it all down there. That seems crazy in terms of how much has been spent over the years putting those there in the first place.

You are right it is bonkers considering the millions that have been spent on WRH in the last 5 years new A&E building new medical doctors building. But in some ways I'm not surprised there has never been a 10year plan in this country for health services let alone a 30 or 50 year plan which is what's actually needed yes there has been nice buzz words like planning for a better future but nothing concrete so what you are left with is seperate plans getting greenlighted by different governments and money going here there and everywhere without any proper overview.
I can assure if this goes ahead in 10 years time a different government will be trying to reverse it because it cannot work you cannot add more people into already full hospitals in Dublin and cork and expect everything to be ok it won't be it will at the very least much longer waiting times for elective surgery and the awfull prospect of watching your loved ones languish on hospital trolleys in A&E's with all the indignity that brings.
I also forgot to say the neonatal unit would also be gone from WRH so as it stands its bad enough to have to move a newborn from Kilkenny to Waterford and where posdible I know the obstetricians take over mams care in WRH too so she can be with baby this wont happen with a child moved to Dublin not until the national children's hospital is built anyhow, so newborn will be moved to Dublin on its own with no mam there to make those oh so important bonding stages in the first few days.

As I said I just want people to be informed this will affect Kilkenny too and we should be looking to keep the south east strong coz otherwise with the way we are going we are going to be left with just green fields from Dublin to cork

redtelephone

A consultant from WRH speaking this morning on WLR's Deise AM said that some consultants in St Luke's Kilkenny want to leave the SE area hospital group and align with a Dublin hospital. This is because they fear a downgrading of A&E at Kilkenny if they stay within the group, where with a Dublin hospital the A&E would be safe because of the distances involved. He thinks if the SE health region survives it will be Wexford Clonmel and Waterford hospitals only, they seem to have given up on Kilkenny.

Dozen Wicked Words

Which consultant from WRH spoke this morning, just out of interest.

Oh, and some of you may not be aware that apparently ambulance control is closing in the south east, and moving to Dublin.

redtelephone

Sorry didn't get the name it was first item on the show just after 10 o'clock. Might be possible to listen back later.

redtelephone

dooferoaks wrote: »

Which consultant from WRH spoke this morning, just out of interest.

Oh, and some of you may not be aware that apparently ambulance control is closing in the south east, and moving to Dublin.

I've got the consultant's name it's Fred Jackson, Consultant Haemotologist at WRH

road_high

redtelephone wrote: »

A consultant from WRH speaking this morning on WLR's Deise AM said that some consultants in St Luke's Kilkenny want to leave the SE area hospital group and align with a Dublin hospital. This is because they fear a downgrading of A&E at Kilkenny if they stay within the group, where with a Dublin hospital the A&E would be safe because of the distances involved. He thinks if the SE health region survives it will be Wexford Clonmel and Waterford hospitals only, they seem to have given up on Kilkenny.

So is there a poor working relationship between WRH and St. Lukes? This would kind of say that to me at any rate.
I'd like to think they would have Kilkenny's and St. Lukes best interests at heart.

Anyone know what's going on with the €13 million A&E unit Hogan was taking credit for a while back? I believe Wexford and WRH's have already started/built so I could see how St. Lukes could be vulnerable in that regard.

Can answer my own question here...the sod-turning ceremony is to be performed "soon" according to esteemed Phil's newsletter;
http://www.philhogan.ie/uploads/Phil_Hogan_Newsletter_-_Oct12_web.pdf

mydogjack

Max Powers wrote: »

That kind of inaccurate gossip is silly, WRH performs brilliantly even with the near lowest per-patient financial support from state (see link). No cancer care in WRH even though it is designated a centre of excellence, dont you think getting onto the Min.Health about that would be a smarter course of action than spreading lies.


http://www.rte.ie/news/2010/0226/health.html

Lies? I worked there and in Kilkenny too, trust me WRH is riddled with bugs, compared to Kilkenny. I suppose the fact they have outside/contract cleaners, compared to household in kk could be partly to blame. So keep your advice Max.

Max Powers

mydogjack wrote: »

Lies? I worked there and in Kilkenny too, trust me WRH is riddled with bugs, compared to Kilkenny. I suppose the fact they have outside/contract cleaners, compared to household in kk could be partly to blame. So keep your advice Max.

I and most people prefer to rely on facts and information from professionals whos job it is to assess such things - cleanliness, efficieny etc rather than unqualified speculation.

Dunmoreroader

http://www.kilkennypeople.ie/news/local/new-plan-for-st-luke-s-hospital-1-4449210
My god is this what passes as journalism in the Kilkenny People???
Editor: "Will we write a news story or an opinion piece...hmmm... I know, we'll do it all in one and save the ink and the paper."
This looks to me to be a case of cutting off your nose to spite your face. St Luke's(or should I say a couple of consultant's at Luke's) get the hump at closer alignment with Waterford Regional, give the 2 fingers south saying "we're throwing our lot in with the Dubs", rendering the remaining Southeast grouping critically weakened and open to carve up by Cork-biased Prof. Higgins' report.
This would be laughable if the implications were not so serious;
The Kilkenny People:
"When pressure came on St Luke’s last year about a proposed downgrading with reciprocal benefits for WRH, which was prevented by Environment Minister Phil Hogan, there was no support from WRH supporters."
I could weep at the parochialism. The only major acute hospital in the region, 3 miles from the Kilkenny border, employing hundreds of people from Kilkenny, treating thousands of people from Kilkenny annually, is in danger of getting hollowed out to embellish Cork & Dublin and it's reduced locally to "well if we can't have it, neither can you".:(

catbear

At the centre of all this are consultants.

Dozen Wicked Words

catbear wrote: »

At the centre of all this are consultants.

The same consultants you rarely even see in the hospitals I expect.