Newly Qualified Teachers Protest

vamos!

Boombastic wrote: »

€32,000 for 36 weeks work. €888.888/week, Isn't that close to what the sergeant in the Gardai was earning??

I get 100 more than that a fortnight, with allowances (old system) and an MA. I worked part-time (not by choice!) last year and earned less than I did as a student working for the summer in Dunnes. I wasn't working 35 hour weeks but had a hell of a lot of responsibility and 6 years University behind me, including an expensive Dip. Divide and conquer is working exceptionally well. The only major flaw, is the total loss of respect for teachers, Gardai and nurses, to some degree. We will suffer for this in the future when we have a generation of young adults with no values or boundaries. They might just be literate though, after RQs fantastic literacy drive

supernova84

Newly qualified teachers should only be on 25 large starting off and if they don't like it go find another career. Fact.

PC CDROM

Benicetomonty wrote: »

Demand for teachers has never been higher - our population is rising in case you haven't noticed. Basic demographics.

Then hang in there and be needed rather than be seen as needy.

Basic economics.

I trained as an aluminium welder because I saw a need for them and realised there were very little in the country, years ago. I creamed the large for about 7 years. I mean mental money. Swimming pool in my house type money.

How was I to know some pr1ck would invent robots to di it?

Did I strike and moan about it? No.

Almaviva

jester77 wrote: »

The unions are such hypocrites, they screwed over the new teachers by not accepting to make cuts across the board and now they have the cheek to come out and protest.

Isnt this the nub of the issue? I am sure the govt would happily pay new teachers a higher salary. And pay new teachers the same as more experienced ones. But the experience teachers wont wear a pay cut for themselves - "I'm all right Jack, screw the new teachers and leave my salary alone". What happened to union solidarity when its really needed ?

phoenix999

Lot of people presume these new teachers are getting the full salary. They are not. Most are lucky to get half that salary as they are paid pro rata. Full time jobs especially in the secondary sector are very hard to come by these days. Most are working part-time on temporary contracts and you can forget holiday pay. Primary teachers are a different story.

Chips Lovell

I suspect the those who complain about teachers salaries would be the same people who'd be up in arms about standards in education if their kids we're being taught by minimum wage drones. You get what you pay for.

Having said that, I thought it was a terrible decision to slash salaries for new entrants. Either cut everyone's pay or nobody's. They've created a two tier system and that's hardly going to do much good for the motivation of those who find themselves on the lower rung.

PC CDROM

krudler wrote: »

How many people here would take work home from their office or job and sit there most of the evening and do it for no extra money? I sure as sh1te wouldnt.

Not to mention all the crap they put up with "work"

Quite a lot of people bar, people who do "manual" labour like working in a warehouse etc

Hard to drive a forklift around your house for no reason.

Benicetomonty

PC CDROM wrote: »

Then hang in there and be needed rather than be seen as needy.

Basic economics.

I trained as an aluminium welder because I saw a need for them and realised there were very little in the country, years ago. I creamed the large for about 7 years. I mean mental money. Swimming pool in my house type money.

How was I to know some pr1ck would invent robots to di it?

Did I strike and moan about it? No.

Teachers are needed. Do you really believe raising the student teacher ratio in order to make a couple hundred teachers redundant is not having an effect on the quality of students' education?

I sympathise with you because you're in a job where new technology put (and will continue to put) you in a precarious position but you gambled on your career when you decided what to study (as we all do) and it simply didn't work out. Education is a right. Aluminium isn't.

vamos!

Benicetomonty wrote: »

Teachers are needed. Do you really believe raising the student teacher ratio in order to make a couple hundred teachers redundant is not having an effect on the quality of students' education?

I sympathise with you because you're in a job where new technology put (and will continue to put) you in a precarious position but you gambled on your career when you decided what to study (as we all do) and it simply didn't work out. Education is a right. Aluminium isn't.

Even as a teacher on my amazing salary, I can't actually afford to buy and the only swimming-pool style feature of my life is my leaking car roof.

Rasheed

krudler wrote: »

32 grand a year before tax? isnt all that much tbh ,I used to be of the "ah shure they get all summer off" brigade until I knew a teacher and she works a lot, a LOT of hours she doesnt get paid for. How many people here would take work home from their office or job and sit there most of the evening and do it for no extra money? I sure as sh1te wouldnt.

Not to mention all the crap they put up with from kids, parents, interfering government bodies, these days if a kid is being bold and not doing their work its not the kids or parents fault, its the teachers,so they get screwed in every facet of their job.

Nobody is doubting how hard teachers work, or how much they do post school hours. Fact is, everybody needs to take some pain because of the recession.

I'm a nurse, I qualified in 2009. When I began my training, you could walk into a a permanent HSE job when qualified, not so in 2009.

Our starting salary, IF you got permanent in HSE was circa €30,000.


That was staying on extra hours due to understaffing, bringing documentation home due to time poverty in the hospital. On top of abusive patients, families, doctors etc.

Teachers work hard. So do most public sector newly qualified workers.

Fact is, the country is broke. We are all working piss hard for less money, sad but true.

We could all march until we are blue in the face, it won't manufacture money.

mikemac1

What happened solidarity and unions fighting hardest for the weakest members

Duiske

poeticseraphim wrote: »

The best way to get the govt to listen as a nation is to join them...seriously..you back the unions you have some power as people

Hang on. It was the unions who negotiated the €32k starting pay for new teachers, under the Croke Park deal. Fcuk the unions and their protesting against pay scales that they themselves agreed to.

Icepick

Vladimir Kurtains wrote: »

I suspect the those who complain about teachers salaries would be the same people who'd be up in arms about standards in education if their kids we're being taught by minimum wage drones. You get what you pay for.

nonsense
Best paid teachers and one of the worst results.

unkel

32k is a very decent starting salary for a teacher. I wouldn't be surprised if that is still well over the EU average

In the private sector when someone is on 50k and the company can now only afford to pay them 32k, that's what they'll get (or get made redundant if they don't voluntarily accept). That has happened to hundreds of thousands of people in Ireland. Going down 30-40% is hard but those people are coping

We can not afford to pay teachers 50k plus anymore. Why can't they all go back to 32k? Croke park agreement is invalid as our economic circumstances have significantly changed since then (clause 1.28 - inability to pay - borrowing from Peter does not make you able to pay Paul)

Is there no politican / party out there with the balls to push this through? Sure they'll lose the vote of many a pulic servant, but I'd say they would win the next election

PC CDROM

Benicetomonty wrote: »

Teachers are needed. Do you really believe raising the student teacher ratio in order to make a couple hundred teachers redundant is not having an effect on the quality of students' education?

I sympathise with you because you're in a job where new technology put (and will continue to put) you in a precarious position but you gambled on your career when you decided what to study (as we all do) and it simply didn't work out. Education is a right. Aluminium isn't.

You see... you are perceiving it wrong.

It's not about education or aluminium. It is about you and what you want. Let society decide what's valuable. Not a load of d1kheads around a table at a dinner party (I'm throwing that out there)

You look after yourself.

Thinking that Education is right is a bad mindset. Good for society but not a great way to make a living.

gosplan

This is a load of bullsh1t in that everyone seems to be missing the point.

Pain is fine, higher tax is fine (if it gets us out of this mess) ... but it must be equal. You can't have two people working side by side doing the same job for very different pay.

The Unions are sh1tting it now because they screwed over the NQTs and now they realise that no-one really wants to sign up to a Union that sold them out before they even got the job.

Shameful display from them.

Zulu

Yeah, they should all get automatic, non proformance related pay rises this year aswell...

phoenix999

unkel wrote: »

32k is a very decent starting salary for a teacher. I wouldn't be surprised if that is still well over the EU average

In the private sector when someone is on 50k and the company can now only afford to pay them 32k, that's what they'll get (or get made redundant if they don't voluntarily accept). That has happened to hundreds of thousands of people in Ireland. Going down 30-40% is hard but those people are coping

We can not afford to pay teachers 50k plus anymore. Why can't they all go back to 32k? Croke park agreement is invalid as our economic circumstances have significantly changed since then (clause 1.28 - inability to pay)

Is there no politican / party out there with the balls to push this through? Sure they'll lose the vote of many a pulic servant, but I'd say they would win the next election

Why can't all civil servants go back to 32000k at that rate. I've met a lot of pen pushers working in government departments who do feck all work and get paid ridiculous amounts.

unkel

gosplan wrote: »

This is a load of bullsh1t in that everyone seems to be missing the point.

Pain is fine, higher tax is fine (if it gets us out of this mess) ... but it must be equal. You can't have two people working side by side doing the same job for very different pay.

The Unions are sh1tting it now because they screwed over the NQTs and now they realise that no-one really wants to sign up to a Union that sold them out before they even got the job.

Shameful display from them.

Exactly. Well at least if this two tier system prevails, the silver lining is that there will no longer be any teachers in any union in a decade or two from now

gosplan

Icepick wrote: »

nonsense
Best paid teachers and one of the worst results.

Do go on.

Grace16

So I was one of the student teachers marching earlier and a lot of people don't understand what we were marching for. We weren't out there saying that 32k is awful money and we want more, we know that we are beyond lucky to get that sort of money! We were protesting about the fact that it is only the NQTs who they are targeting and nobody else in the education sector. We are getting paid a lot less than people who qualified 2 years ago and we just want the Government to look at other places they can cut (maybe those who did qualify before us) rather than cutting our money every year. The main message was Equal Work for Equal Pay, not Give Us More Money

krudler

Grace16 wrote: »

So I was one of the student teachers marching earlier and a lot of people don't understand what we were marching for. We weren't out there saying that 32k is awful money and we want more, we know that we are beyond lucky to get that sort of money! We were protesting about the fact that it is only the NQTs who they are targeting and nobody else in the education sector. We are getting paid a lot less than people who qualified 2 years ago and we just want the Government to look at other places they can cut (maybe those who did qualify before us) rather than cutting our money every year. The main message was Equal Work for Equal Pay, not Give Us More Money

G'way with your actual issues and facts, there's pitchforks to be waved about here. sure ye only work til 3 and get every weekend off.

Benicetomonty

PC CDROM wrote: »

You see... you are perceiving it wrong.

It's not about education or aluminium. It is about you and what you want. Let society decide what's valuable. Not a load of d1kheads around a table at a dinner party (I'm throwing that out there)

You look after yourself.

Thinking that Education is right is a bad mindset. Good for society but not a great way to make a living.

Society has decided, that's why every civilised country in the world has free education until the age of 18, with some extending beyond that age. Because there is consequently a massive demand for teachers, they will never be regarded as anything but a necessity by society in general. This is not a profession one joins for respect, that's for sure. You are also never going to be a millionaire if you spend your life teaching, even though I truly believe even the most cynical Boardsie would admit there are some who might well deserve to be based on the work they do.

Regardless, we have, inevitably, deviated from the point of this thread, simply because it involves the word 'teacher'.. As per usual.

NTMK

My name is URL wrote: »

Having said that, there was a girl on the radio earlier that was moaning about how €32,000 per year was pittance and hardly worth bothering for. I would have punched her in the gee if she was sitting next to me at the time.

really??? there was someone bitching about €32000 starting?
Im a recently graduated Scientist/engineer and if someone were to offer me €20000 id snap their hand off.

what's worse is that it makes all people who grew up during the boom look like spoilt twats :mad:

mikemac1

Sure everyone is an engineer these days

The handyman who does repairs can call himself an engineer

Sorry, off topic

Chucky the tree

Vladimir Kurtains wrote: »

I suspect the those who complain about teachers salaries would be the same people who'd be up in arms about standards in education if their kids we're being taught by minimum wage drones. You get what you pay for

Looking at what we paid up until now we certainly didn't get what we paid for. Teachers wages have been rising rapidly while test result have been plummeting down. We paid for great teachers and got absolute dross. At least now since we are getting ****e, we might as well pay ****e.

MysticalRain

Grace16 wrote: »

We are getting paid a lot less than people who qualified 2 years ago

You do realize that's exactly what would have happened if you had taken a job in the private sector during the current recession? Is the public sector supposed to be immune to the laws of supply and demand under a capitalist economy that the rest of us are subjected to?

Chucky the tree

Grace16 wrote: »

So I was one of the student teachers marching earlier and a lot of people don't understand what we were marching for. We weren't out there saying that 32k is awful money and we want more, we know that we are beyond lucky to get that sort of money! We were protesting about the fact that it is only the NQTs who they are targeting and nobody else in the education sector. We are getting paid a lot less than people who qualified 2 years ago and we just want the Government to look at other places they can cut (maybe those who did qualify before us) rather than cutting our money every year. The main message was Equal Work for Equal Pay, not Give Us More Money

If that's the case they why wast he protest organised by the Unions who insisted on cuts happening to only new teachers? I'd have a lot more respect for protesting if you told the Unions to piss off.

Grace16

krudler wrote: »

G'way with your actual issues and facts, there's pitchforks to be waved about here. sure ye only work til 3 and get every weekend off.

I wish teaching was what people perceive it to be! More like working until 5 or 6 everyday with planning and evaluations and also doing these on the weekend....not sure there are many jobs where there is always work to do on your days off

Heroditas

Grace16 wrote: »

So I was one of the student teachers marching earlier and a lot of people don't understand what we were marching for. We weren't out there saying that 32k is awful money and we want more, we know that we are beyond lucky to get that sort of money! We were protesting about the fact that it is only the NQTs who they are targeting and nobody else in the education sector. We are getting paid a lot less than people who qualified 2 years ago and we just want the Government to look at other places they can cut (maybe those who did qualify before us) rather than cutting our money every year. The main message was Equal Work for Equal Pay, not Give Us More Money

Your unions were the ones who sold you out.