Will the abortion protests in NI last?

loveisdivine

MagicMarker wrote: »

It's bears zero relevance to what's going on in the world today.

Much like most pro life arguments.

Lingua Franca

ehcocmeo wrote: »

Sorry if this post seems like semi Spamming.. But some Facts who Marie Stopes before you go rushing to defend this organisation --> http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=81296595&postcount=22

Hi there! Nice post, and definitely worthy of Godwinning around. You're sure zinging those pro choicers with that rock solid connection to Hitler!

You missed a few wee facts, though.

1. Marie Stopes was anti abortion.

2. The pro life movement has current direct connections to fascists. (4 links there, enjoy)

3. If you think that the name "Marie Stopes International" is a connection to Hitler then I really hope you've never bought any clothes or products from Hugo Boss, insurance from Allianz, medication from Bayer, driven a Ford, used an IBM computer or a Seimens phone or drank a Fanta, because if you have then you are a Nazi.


If we are to follow your reasoning, there can be no doubt that pro life = fascism.

Thank you very much for bringing this to our attention.

meeeeh

skinny1980 wrote: »

A woman was recently jailed for illegally self-aborting in England with pills she bought online - as if she had no right to do as she liked with her own body!
.

I suspect this is not the whole story and abortion is perfectly legal in England, so it's not exactly hard to get one done. But even if se wasn't outside legal limits, I agree with punishment. It might stop some more idiots selfmedicating over internet. That is just as a side point.

As for those protestors that insist on camping in front of clinics, social welfare should send their inspectors to check if any dole recipients are to busy to protest to be looking for a job.

Frogeye

skinny1980 wrote: »

A woman was recently jailed for illegally self-aborting in England with pills she bought online - as if she had no right to do as she liked with her own body!


You can expect this mob to get more violent and extreme as abortion becomes more available.

The woman self aborted a week before her due date:

http://www.smh.com.au/world/uk-woman-jailed-for-selfabortion-20120918-2630k.html

as for getting more violent: America tends to have extremes in every walk of life so I don't think it is a good comparison. Open to correction on this: but I don't believe anti abortion violence is common in UK and abortion is widely available here. I certainly have never heard of a case.

Those people have the right to protest and you have the right not to like it. Not sure it is fair to predict violence.

skinny1980

Frogeye wrote: »

The woman self aborted a week before her due date:

So what? It's her choice and her body.

as for getting more violent: America tends to have extremes in every walk of life so I don't think it is a good comparison. Open to correction on this: but I don't believe anti abortion violence is common in UK and abortion is widely available here. I certainly have never heard of a case.

The ultimate aim of the anti-abortion movement is violent - forcing women to have babies and jail women for life for murder if they have abortions.

Those people have the right to protest and you have the right not to like it. Not sure it is fair to predict violence

If the people start off from a position where they think it is right to coerce women into having children against their will that means they have totalitarian mindset and violence is not far away from their thinking.

MagicMarker

skinny1980 wrote: »

So what? It's her choice and her body.

iguana

eviltwin wrote: »

As for the cost, its a private clinic, abortion is free on the NHS but those NI laws don't allow that service to extend to the north. As a private clinic of course you have to pay. They have overheads like any business. Its a pity its not free or cheaper but its cheaper than many of Uk clinics.

Just to clarify, they aren't a private business they are a registered charity. They aren't a profit making business. Any extra that is made from abortions is channelled back into the organisation, for example MS clinics in England offer a specialised, cheaper service for women who have to travel from Ireland as they know those women have to add travelling and accommodation costs to their abortions.

They also run developing world clinics where they provide family planning, abortions, maternity care and STI/HIV treatment and prevention clinics. http://www.mariestopes.org/what-we-do

Chimpokomon

skinny1980 wrote: »

So what? It's her choice and her body.

...
The ultimate aim of the anti-abortion movement is violent -

Yet you see nothing wrong with aborting a week before due date? A week?!

Proof if any were needed that there are nutjobs on both sides. How anyone can actually defend this act is genuinely scary. What in your opinion is the difference between aborting a week before birth and murdering a newborn?

skinny1980

Chimpokomon wrote: »

skinny1980 wrote: »

Yet you see nothing wrong with aborting a week before due date? A week?!

Proof if any were needed that there are nutjobs on both sides. How anyone can actually defend this act is genuinely scary. What in your opinion is the difference between aborting a week before birth and murdering a newborn?

If a woman wants an abortion the day before the baby is due there should be nothing stopping her if she so wishes.
What do you propose to do with women seeking abortions?
Locking them up in padded cells strapped to a trolley to force them to have their babies?
As I see it, a woman's choice trumps every other consideration.
Anything else is outright tyranny.

skinny1980

MagicMarker wrote: »

I am serious.
If a woman wants to have an abortion at anytime in her pregnancy and for any reason it is her choice and nobody else should be allowed to interfere.
It is not the business of anyone but her alone what she does with her own body.

iguana

skinny1980 wrote: »

If a woman wants an abortion the day before the baby is due there should be nothing stopping her if she so wishes.
What do you propose to do with women seeking abortions?
Locking them up in padded cells strapped to a trolley to force them to have their babies?
As I see it, a woman's choice trumps every other consideration.
Anything else is outright tyranny.

At 39 weeks pregnant, if she'd made her position clear to her NHS maternity service it would have been possible to schedule an induction or elective c-section, even before 39 weeks. That woman was quite clearly very messed up (looking at her previous history as well as that particular incident) and really shouldn't be used as an example of a woman making a choice as tbh, I don't believe she was compos mentis.

However she shouldn't have been prosecuted and jailed, she should been given proper psychiatric care.

Frogeye

skinny1980 wrote: »

So what? It's her choice and her body..

I think you made my point for me here. Thank you.

The ultimate aim of the anti-abortion movement is violent - forcing women to have babies and jail women for life for murder if they have abortions

By that logic ( and I am not saying this is my belief) you could equally argue that the ultimate aim of the pro abortion is violent: they are the ones after all that want to " kill babies".

If the people start off from a position where they think it is right to coerce women into having children against their will that means they have totalitarian mindset and violence is not far away from their thinking.

I think you are once again making giant leaps in logic here. I think what you might find is that these people believe in "life" and are trying to stop what they see as "murder" and are having a peaceful , if perhaps tasteless, protest. I still don't see the connection to violence on their side and to suggest such things is not really helping the debate

skinny1980

Frogeye wrote: »

skinny1980 wrote: »

I think you made my point for me here. Thank you.


By that logic ( and I am not saying this is my belief) you could equally argue that the ultimate aim of the pro abortion is violent: they are the ones after all that want to " kill babies".



I think you are once again making giant leaps in logic here. I think what you might find is that these people believe in "life" and are trying to stop what they see as "murder" and are having a peaceful , if perhaps tasteless, protest. I still don't see the connection to violence on their side and to suggest such things is not really helping the debate

They had their way would set up a state with which women are detained and imprisoned for exercising their right to choose. That mindset is violently anti-freedom and fascist.

Wibbs

Chimpokomon wrote: »

Yet you see nothing wrong with aborting a week before due date? A week?!

Proof if any were needed that there are nutjobs on both sides. How anyone can actually defend this act is genuinely scary. What in your opinion is the difference between aborting a week before birth and murdering a newborn?

Indeed. Many people are born slightly early, a week early wouldn't be unusual at all. So killing a perfectly healthy and full term baby is OK? Jesus. I suspect the difference is that one is in the woman's body so by the posters logic is fair game, but the other isn't so killing a newborn would be reprehensible. Utterly and completely daft.

eviltwin

skinny1980 wrote: »

Frogeye wrote: »

They had their way would set up a state with which women are detained and imprisoned for exercising their right to choose. That mindset is violently anti-freedom and fascist.

Where are you getting this from? I know a few people in the pro-life camp and they would laugh at this suggestion.

awec

This post has been deleted.

skinny1980

awec wrote: »

This "can do what she wants with her body" is absolute rubbish anyway. You can't go out and fill your body with Class A drugs. You can't go out and sell your body on the street. There are plenty of things you can't do with your body.

Not sure if the poster who said "so what" to a 39 week abortion is trolling or not. I'm pretty sure they are, seeing as words like "tyranny" are being thrown about. I'd be pro-choice but 39 weeks is ridiculous.

So you think a woman should be forced against her will to have a child she does not want? So she is about to have the abortion performed and what should happen? Armed police should storm the clinic shoot the doctors if they do not stop the procedure drag her out screaming and chain her to a trolley in a detention facility and force her to go to go through with having the kid?:mad: And I suppose jail her for attempted murder after the baby is born too?

MagicMarker

skinny1980 wrote: »

So you think a woman should be forced against her will to have a child she does not want? So she is about to have abortion performed and what should happen? Armed police should storm the clinic shoot the doctors if they do not stop the procedure drag her out screaming and chain her to a trolley in a detention facility and force her to go to go through with having the kid?:mad: And I suppose jail her for attempted murder after the baby is born too?

I still don't understand if you're taking the piss or if you're just drunk.

Pembily

skinny1980 wrote: »

So you think a woman should be forced against her will to have a child she does not want? So she is about to have abortion room performed and what should happen? Armed police should storm the clinic shoot the doctors, drag her out screaming and chain her to a trolley in a detention facility and force her to go to go through with having the kid?:mad: And I suppose jail her for attempted murder after the baby is born too?

She had months to make a decision.

skinny1980

MagicMarker wrote: »

I still don't understand if you're taking the piss or if you're just drunk.

Anti-abortion fanatics think abortion is murder don't they? I would have to assume they would force women to have babies and they would throw them in jail for attempted murder if they sought an abortion wouldn't they if they had the power to do so? In America many anti-abortion fanatics seriously advocate executing women and their accomplices.

skinny1980

Pembily wrote: »

She had months to make a decision.

So what?
If she wants an abortion at any time or for any reason that should be her right.

eviltwin

skinny1980 wrote: »

Anti-abortion fanatics think abortion is murder don't they? I would have to assume they would force women to have babies and they would throw them in jail for attempted murder if they sought an abortion wouldn't they if they had the power to do so? In America many anti-abortion fanatics seriously advocate executing women and their accomplices.

You get nutjobs everywhere unfortunately. There are probably idiots on the prochoice side who think its okay to abort right up until the due date. They are in the minority.

Lingua Franca

I agree with you on the 39 weeks abortion, that's appalling and I would imagine down to mental issues. I wonder if the baby was born alive?

But I have to correct you on this:

awec wrote: »

This "can do what she wants with her body" is absolute rubbish anyway. You can't go out and fill your body with Class A drugs. You can't go out and sell your body on the street. There are plenty of things you can't do with your body.

There's no law against filling your body with Class A's, the laws are against buying and owning them and/or providing them for others but you can't be charged with taking them. Taking drugs is not an offence. Same with prostitution, you can accept money for sex but the laws are against soliciting for such, controlling prostitutes and living off the immoral earnings of others. Prostitution itself is not an offence.

skinny1980

eviltwin wrote: »

You get nutjobs everywhere unfortunately. There are probably idiots on the prochoice side who think its okay to abort right up until the due date. They are in the minority.

Why shouldn't it be legal right up until the due date? Seriously. And why should it be anybody's business except the woman?
Abortion should be legal in all circumstances. The woman's right to choose is absolute. No if buts or maybes. The fascists who want to impose their bigotry on the lives of complete strangers who aren't bothering them can take a running jump.

Morag

skinny1980 wrote: »

Why shouldn't it be legal right up until the due date? Seriously. And why should it be anybody's business except the woman?
Abortion should be legal in all circumstances. The woman's right to choose is absolute. No if buts or maybes. The fascists who want to impose their bigotry on the lives of complete strangers who aren't bothering them can take a running jump.

What utter and complete claptrap, this sort of shíte gets spouted to try and paint people who are pro choice as some sort of monster.

krudler

skinny1980 wrote: »

Why shouldn't it be legal right up until the due date? Seriously. And why should it be anybody's business except the woman?
Abortion should be legal in all circumstances. The woman's right to choose is absolute. No if buts or maybes. The fascists who want to impose their bigotry on the lives of complete strangers who aren't bothering them can take a running jump.

I don't know of a single pro-choice person who would advocate abortion that late into a term

skinny1980

krudler wrote: »

I don't know of a single pro-choice person who would advocate abortion that late into a term

It is not my place to judge any woman who has a termination. As far as I see it a woman should have the choice to end her pregnancy whenever she wants.
No state, no organisation and no individual should have any right whatsoever to prevent any abortion at any stage. It's an individual woman's business what she chooses to do or not to do.

eviltwin

skinny1980 wrote: »

It is not my place to judge any woman who has a termination. As far as I see it a woman should have the choice to end her pregnancy whenever she wants.
No state, no organisation and no individual should have any right whatsoever to prevent any abortion at any stage. It's an individual woman's business what she chooses to do or not to do.

Who is judging? The limits in the UK are pretty generous. It allows for plenty of time to think things through and get any advice etc. There is no need for any woman to have to wait until the 8th or 9th month to have an abortion.

And unless she is suffering for some mental distress why would she want to? Most terminations in the UK happen in the first trimester which is well under the limit. For most women when they find they have an unwanted pregnancy and they want to have an abortion its easier physically and mentally to deal with it sooner rather than later. It makes no sense for a woman to wait until the last minute.

skinny1980

eviltwin wrote: »

Who is judging? The limits in the UK are pretty generous. It allows for plenty of time to think things through and get any advice etc. There is no need for any woman to have to wait until the 8th or 9th month to have an abortion.

That's just your opinion.

And unless she is suffering for some mental distress why would she want to?

Her husband leaves her for another woman? I could think of plenty of other reasons.

Most terminations in the UK happen in the first trimester which is well under the limit.

That's not a argument against late term abortions.

For most women when they find they have an unwanted pregnancy and they want to have an abortion its easier physically and mentally to deal with it sooner rather than later.

If a woman changes her mind ahead of the birth why shouldn't she be allowed to abort? I fail to see what the problem is.

It makes no sense for a woman to wait until the last minute.

Why doesn't it make sense?

krudler

If a woman changes her mind ahead of the birth why shouldn't she be allowed to abort? I fail to see what the problem is.

Becuase you're going into a much bigger grey area from a morality standpoint, the reason abortions have a term they're allowed to be performed in is because the definition of fetus/child becomes less and less, I may be pro-choice but there's a difference between an abortion at 9 weeks and one at 39 weeks. the unborn child is much more developed and almost ready to be born, you seriously can't think aborting a baby a few days from birth is the same as a few weeks developed fetus? smells like trolling to me.