FF bounce back - WTF???

Pottler

Pottler wrote: »

What people need to do is cop on a bit. It's not that anyone "Loves" FF or FG, it's that they are allied to them. How's that Pottler??, I hear you cry(ok, I don't, but you're getting it anyway).

Simply put, if your a FF business/family, and FF is in power, be it locally/Nationally, let the good times roll - on a personal and business level. That means to do with money, jobs, housing and contracts btw.


Then, crap and bejasus, FG get in, and all the FG "allied" people and businesses get the goodies/jobs/contracts/houses. So, when FF are in power, the FF families are aok. FG ones are struggling. Then it swaps.

And for the dim lad down the back, who is screeching about "that's just not how it is Pottler, you fool", sorry me old flower, but that's how it is. So, FF will ALWAYS have loads of support, as will to a lesser extent FG. When it turns pear shaped and they really feck the thing up and the other shower get in, they just wait in the long grass till the record changes. And so the dance goes on.:) Not so??? Really???;)

Then it swaps, does it?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fianna_F%C3%A1il#General_election_results

Capt'n Midnight

keith16 wrote: »

If FF did get back into government, would they get rid of the property tax? Of course not.

That's exactly how they got back into power in 1977 :mad:

By abolishing domestic rates.


https://irishelectionliterature.wordpress.com/2010/10/18/from-1977-the-fianna-fail-manifesto-an-action-plan-for-national-recovery-abridged-version/

The 1977 Fianna Fail Manifesto has gone down as one which in part led to Irelands fiscal crisis in the 80s. In the main the Manifesto was reportedly crafted by Martin O’Donoghue.
It proved popular with the voters as Fianna Fail were returned with an unprecedented 20 seat majority.
Amongst the below are Tax cuts, abolition of Rates, first time buyer grants of £1000 and other giveaways.
Amongst the first time TDs elected were Bertie Ahern, Pádraig Flynn, Liam Lawlor, Charlie McCreevy, Martin O’Donoghue and Albert Reynolds.

goat2

hogan doing fg and labours job, and doing it badly, they had a rush of seats this election, just watch them fall in the next.

Pottler

Rojomcdojo wrote: »

Then it swaps, does it?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fianna_F%C3%A1il#General_election_results

FF are more deeply entrenched, financially, in Ireland than any other party, FG have their base, it's just smaller. I can show you cast-iron evidence of this in just who gets Govt contracts and when they loose them as the Parties swap seats. It's always about money, no matter what else it seems to be about. There are occasions when the whole thing just gets too blatant and the outside world intrudes with inconvenient crises and messes up the status quo, but that's life, and business.

ilovesleep

dvpower wrote: »

Enda Kenny is in Europe as we speak attempting to negotiate a deal on the debt on our behalf.

http://www.rte.ie/news/2012/1018/enda-kenny-eu-summit.html

He's rimming Merkel's arse and that's all he's doing.

dvpower

ilovesleep wrote: »

He's rimming Merkel's arse and that's all he's doing.

Classy.

Ghandee

ilovesleep wrote: »

He's rimming Merkel's arse and that's all he's doing.

Lol! :pac:

MadYaker

I think it will take more than one election cycle for people to forget. But tbh I would never flat out say I'm never voting FF/FG/ Labour again for the rest of my life, its about the candidates they put forward rather then the party as an entity. If they have lots of new faces who seem likeable and aren't part of the old style FF crony party then maybe they would be worth voting for.

And they couldn't abolish the property tax. The troika wouldn't allow it. I don't know what will happen in the next election if we are out of the bailout program and our public finances are under control then FG and Labour will be looked upon favorably I think. If were still in the sh!t then I don't know what will happen....

I reckon the coalition's biggest challenge will be to survive the fallout after the next budget, that is going to be one hell of a sh!tstorm.

Grimreaper666

We wouldn't be in this mess in the first place only for Fianna Fail, lets be clear about this, it was they who insisted on paying the unguaranteed bond holders of the pillar banks not the Troika.

Ghandee

Grimreaper666 wrote: »

We wouldn't be in this mess in the first place only for Fianna Fail, lets be clear about this, it was they who insisted on paying the unguaranteed bond holders of the pillar banks not the Troika.

Why have FG insisted that they must pay bondholders as that's what the troika told them to do?

squod

Ghandee wrote: »

Why have FG insisted that they must pay bondholders as that's what the troika told them to do?

Refer back to Noonans ''we will pay our way'' speech. He made that about eight seconds after being named Minister for Finance. A surprising move, one that caught everyone off guard. Yet here we are.

Thanks again to everyone who voted FG/FF.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a5R_pS0h5Qk

Capt'n Midnight

Grimreaper666 wrote: »

We wouldn't be in this mess in the first place only for Fianna Fail, lets be clear about this, it was they who insisted on paying the unguaranteed bond holders of the pillar banks not the Troika.

How many of them were the original bond holders ?

Weren't some of the bonds sold on at a discounted rate before the guarantee ?

K-9

The property tax was part of the original FF 5 year plan pre bailout which then became by and large the troika agreement. The Troika obviously would see nothing wrong with a property tax as it's a pretty standard form of taxation, so it was up to FF and then FG/Labour to come up with some alternative.

Given their pledges to keep the Croker agreement, not cut the main Welfare rates and not raise Income tax rates, some new alternative was very unlikely.

MadYaker wrote: »

I think it will take more than one election cycle for people to forget. But tbh I would never flat out say I'm never voting FF/FG/ Labour again for the rest of my life, its about the candidates they put forward rather then the party as an entity. If they have lots of new faces who seem likeable and aren't part of the old style FF crony party then maybe they would be worth voting for.

And they couldn't abolish the property tax. The troika wouldn't allow it. I don't know what will happen in the next election if we are out of the bailout program and our public finances are under control then FG and Labour will be looked upon favorably I think. If were still in the sh!t then I don't know what will happen....

I reckon the coalition's biggest challenge will be to survive the fallout after the next budget, that is going to be one hell of a sh!tstorm.

Foxhound38

A nation of absolute thickos is what we are, and tis well FF know it. Have a look at the people at that Quinn rally the other day - unfortunately, easily led morons like that are a dime a dozen here, and are more than ready to put FF back in on a wave of hooting and fcuking idiocy.

Way to go Ireland - roads fixed for everyone... :mad:

oppenheimer1

The reason FF are bouncing back in the polls is thats its all relative, a decline in support for one will rise a rise in support for the other. FF were bound to rise in the polls again - though I believe it will be some time before they are rehabilitated enough to form a government.

The real reason we have to ask is why though. I believe its the lack of a convincing alternative. The only real new political groupings that have formed in the past few years as a reaction to the economic crisis have been leftist groups. These groups quickly became infested with workers party types and therefore were never going to gain widespread support with their not costed fairy land policies. As for SF, well in many peoples eyes, they are still tainted with the crimes of the past, as well as having economic policies that daft. The only way FF would have been killed off is if there was a new centrist party untainted by the scandal of the previous few years waiting to take advantage at the last election. I believe that if the Greens were not part of the last government, they well could have been that party.

Foxhound38

oppenheimer1 wrote: »

The reason FF are bouncing back in the polls is thats its all relative, a decline in support for one will rise a rise in support for the other. FF were bound to rise in the polls again - though I believe it will be some time before they are rehabilitated enough to form a government.

The real reason we have to ask is why though. I believe its the lack of a convincing alternative. The only real new political groupings that have formed in the past few years as a reaction to the economic crisis have been leftist groups. These groups quickly became infested with workers party types and therefore were never going to gain widespread support with their not costed fairy land policies. As for SF, well in many peoples eyes, they are still tainted with the crimes of the past, as well as having economic policies that daft. The only way FF would have been killed off is if there was a new centrist party untainted by the scandal of the previous few years waiting to take advantage at the last election. I believe that if the Greens were not part of the last government, they well could have been that party.

Greens wouldn't have been ruthless enough I fear. Labour had the opportunity to finish them off by not going into government and instead leading the opposition - had they done that, not only would they be decimating FF and creating a mich-needed right-left divide but they would more than likely be in a position to be considering what needs to be done in order to lead the next government, and doing so seriously. Unfortunately they blew it and are instead most likely in for a serious kicking...

Solair

Are we 100% certain that a large area of the country hasn't been hit by some kind of zombie virus?

It would explain a few things ....

Terry

Politicians are corrupt, and most people are stupid enough to fall for their lies.

This explains every government ever formed in every single democracy ever. Ever.

K-9

Enda Kenny is still the most popular party leader in the state. There's your answer, for all the poor performances of all the opposition leaders.

squod

oppenheimer1 wrote: »

the Greens

They get back in I'm going to scream.

ArtSmart

21% is a bounce? from 40% and 35% they had in 2008?

sigh.


there was a time when anything below 30% was defined as a wipeout.

pre budget jitters and the bearded one etc account for that nonsense. Ff are over. just will take a will before they accept it.
(just coz the IT goes a bit headline crazy dont mean we should also)

Foxhound38

ArtSmart wrote: »

21% is a bounce? from 40% and 35% they had in 2008?

sigh.


there was a time when anything below 30% was defined as a wipeout.

pre budget jitters and the bearded one etc account for that nonsense. Ff are over. just will take a will before they accept it.
(just coz the IT goes a bit headline crazy dont mean we should also)

It's still 21% too much after the way they wounded the country. I honestly don't think this about supporters of any other party, including the ones I disagree with hugely on policy, but people who continue to vote for/support FF during this election cycle are subservient thickos in my opinion - of the same mindset as those at the Quinn rally. Honestly, I can't figure out any other explanation for such stupidity

ArtSmart

Foxhound38 wrote: »

It's still 21% too much after the way they wounded the country. I honestly don't think this about supporters of any other party, including the ones I disagree with hugely on policy, but people who continue to vote for/support FF during this election cycle are subservient thickos in my opinion - of the same mindset as those at the Quinn rally. Honestly, I can't figure out any other explanation for such stupidity

well it's tricky. many would feel FF were simply unlucky, others would suffer from too much cognitive dissonance, etc. SF seems to have gained the most from FF loss, and if they don't start getting intelligent as well as angry, FF will stay at 20-22 - or higher if another crisis hits.


but they (FF) are out of the game for good, as the dominant party. I'm saying now, on record, that they will dissolve the party and form a new one, in about 4 years or so.

tomtherobot

Meh politics is dead.

Sir Oxman

stevenmu wrote: »

If somebody had tried to stand for election and said "ah here, lads, this is gone a bit mad. I think we need to maybe cut back on the spending a little, raise taxes a bit, and build less housing estates on top of fuc*ing bogs", nobody would have voted for them.

.

FG were pretty much slaughtered in the 2002 GE for doing something along those lines. (except the planning bit as they are possibly worse than FF when it comes to planning corruption)

Even though I despise FF and all they are and ever will be, 3 successive elections with ~40% support puts a mirror up to the face of a large amount of the electorate. And it ain't pretty.

sunflower27

K-9 wrote: »

Enda Kenny is still the most popular party leader in the state. There's your answer, for all the poor performances of all the opposition leaders.

Exactly, it is purely by default.

I personally hate this crowd more than any other. I want them GONE!

Enda is as thick as..... I won't start

CucaFace

Ghandee wrote: »

I dont feel the need for the completely over the top fonts, but I will give you a source that completely contradicts you.



http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/ireland/2011/0921/1224304483527.html

A quick google brings up another source.

http://www.independent.ie/national-news/mcguinness-does-uturn-to-condemn-mccabe-killers-2880476.html

Many more are there to see, but sure I'll let you go off in your own fantasy world.

Now. Where does that leave us?

First off I don't know where those fonts came out of. I certainly didn’t mean to use them.

But back to this point. I didn’t realise he had condemned it.

But let’s take this in perspective, it took how many years for him to do that? And he only did it when he wanted votes and knew this point was going to kill him in any election.

It was nothing but a fake condemnation and everyone knows that.

So you would have no problem with a guy like this, and a party full of people like him who also refused to condemn this act for 11 years, becoming part of a Govt down here?

He was a major reason those 2 cold blooded murderers of an Irish Garda got early release as part of the GFA.

Really this says everything about the Sine Fein party and you have to really look at yourself and your beliefs if you cannot see how wrong that was, and how a party who can act like this should never ever be part of a democracy with such history like this.

rinnin

Beverly Cooper Flynn & Sid from Ice age. Separated at birth?
(Just something I noticed)
http://www.maths.tcd.ie/~beavis/Bev.jpg