Ash Dieback Disease (Chalara fraxinea) in Ireland

periodictable · 01-04-2013 6:01pm

Possible cloning stock-couple of highly resistant trees in Denmark might be used to clone resistant trees
http://www.independent.ie/world-news/europe/just-two-trees-could-save-entire-ash-species-29166289.html

TomOnBoard · 02-04-2013 1:17am

Oldtree wrote: »

tom have a read of this:

http://www.agriculture.gov.ie/media/migration/forestry/ashdiebackchalara/ReconstitutionofWoodlandsChalarafraxineaSchemeMarch2013210313.pdf

I read that. However, unless I'm blind, I cannot see where destruction is defined. For example, is it intended that a massive cut and burn be implemented on an infected site? Or is chipping or cutting for firewood acceptable? Must trees be cut and buried? Etc. etc.

periodictable · 02-04-2013 9:31am

Oldtree wrote: »

tom have a read of this:

http://www.agriculture.gov.ie/media/migration/forestry/ashdiebackchalara/ReconstitutionofWoodlandsChalarafraxineaSchemeMarch2013210313.pdf

The whole layout of this scheme with all attendant 10x28 conditions has got to be the greatest example of the total mess that the Forest Service has become. It is utterly strangled in red tape. My personal "sanitation plan" for the prevention of the spread of Chalara is the immediate firing of the idiots who drew up and approved the issue of this scheme.
I'm reminded of the sad fate some poor girls in an orphanage fire in Saudi some years back- the kids were effecting an escape, but the religious police forced them back in to get dressed thereby condemning the girls to death by fire.
Same mindset, different mullahs.
I guess this is the reason I have as little to do with the Forest Service as is possible.:mad:- maybe it's time to delist myself from Boards.ie too......

Oldtree · 02-04-2013 2:28pm

Sanitation Plan isnt avaiable yet from what i can see and we must ask our friend Jack to see if he can lay his hands on one for us. Clearly one must exist as it is referred to many times in that reconstitution document.

However they do refer to "destruction" of infected material and chipping is not destruction. i took that to mean it will be a bury or burn situation, hopefully both imo and nothing can be removed from the infected site.

The uk website suggests that composting the leaves would be adequate but would not imo.

Oldtree · 02-04-2013 2:33pm

periodictable wrote: »

The whole layout of this scheme with all attendant 10x28 conditions has got to be the greatest example of the total mess that the Forest Service has become. It is utterly strangled in red tape. My personal "sanitation plan" for the prevention of the spread of Chalara is the immediate firing of the idiots who drew up and approved the issue of this scheme.
I'm reminded of the sad fate some poor girls in an orphanage fire in Saudi some years back- the kids were effecting an escape, but the religious police forced them back in to get dressed thereby condemning the girls to death by fire.
Same mindset, different mullahs.
I guess this is the reason I have as little to do with the Forest Service as is possible.:mad:- maybe it's time to delist myself from Boards.ie too......

why? dont you feel that your comments have value? there have been over 12,500 views of this thread alone. think about that P

personally i did not apply for a grant as i want to do what i want and not what lesser mortal have decided is the way things are done.

JohnBoy · 08-04-2013 12:26pm

Oldtree wrote: »

tom have a read of this:

http://www.agriculture.gov.ie/media/migration/forestry/ashdiebackchalara/ReconstitutionofWoodlandsChalarafraxineaSchemeMarch2013210313.pdf

hmmm. I know this is a bigger problem, and I shouldnt be so selfish, but I'm disappointed that there isnt an opt out clause.

The only crop we ever considered planting was ash. Visually we didnt want conifers, alder seems to have a limited market and oak has too long a payback.

Ash was the perfect crop, thinnings have great firewood value, butts for hurleys and long term it's a good furniture wood.

Our plantiation is only a couple of years old, so it would cost the department less to write it off than to re-instate it....

Oldtree · 08-04-2013 6:46pm

JohnBoy wrote: »

hmmm. I know this is a bigger problem, and I shouldnt be so selfish, but I'm disappointed that there isnt an opt out clause.

The only crop we ever considered planting was ash. Visually we didnt want conifers, alder seems to have a limited market and oak has too long a payback.

Ash was the perfect crop, thinnings have great firewood value, butts for hurleys and long term it's a good furniture wood.

Our plantiation is only a couple of years old, so it would cost the department less to write it off than to re-instate it....

thats aful news to have to bare. From a personal point of view i hope the disease does not hit your ash, I continue to plant out my own seedlings in the hope that they will be ok but its for a shorter term than you, mainly firewood over 10-15 years., but from a commercial point of view it no longer makes any sense to plant ash.

periodictable · 08-04-2013 11:02pm

As the policy makers rush to get people to plant alder to make up for ash loss,to there is general agreement that the FS has also refused to face up to the big problems of alder die back -Phytopthora- and rust disease -Melamsporidium- that is now affecting common alder.

Oldtree · 11-04-2013 1:24pm

UK Confirmed findings at 8 April 2013:

Nursery sites - 19
Recently planted sites - 249
Wider environment, e.g. established woodland - 176
Total: 444

With the map showing site count up to 29 in NI.
http://www.forestry.gov.uk/chalara

Tollygunge · 11-04-2013 11:05pm

Interesting early warning system being researched in England, may have an application here; as no case of wider environment infection of chalara has been detected in Ireland:http://www.telegraph.co.uk/earth/countryside/9859549/Early-warning-system-to-detect-tree-diseases-crossing-the-sea.html

An early warning system developed to detect plant diseases carried by the wind could help prevent the spread of devastating outbreaks similar to ash dieback from blowing across the sea from the continent....

....Shradha Singh, who has been leading the project to develop the early warning system at Syngenta, a crop research company, said: “These sensors can monitor for 24 hours a day, seven days a week. A network of the detectors can be linked by mobile phones and this can create a picture of the disease pressure over a wide area.”
A £2.5million pilot of the system, known as SYield, has been developed in a consortium with Manchester University and Rothamsted Research to detect the fungus sclerotinia, which causes stem rot in oil seed rape.
Syngenta is in discussions on how to develop SYield to combat other diseases. These could include the wind-spread fungi that cause Chestnut blight and Pine pitch canker.
Chestnut blight, also caused by a fungus, is also feared as a major threat to UK trees.
By setting up a network of devices to detect these diseases, it would help provide an early alert should they arrive on British shores.

Oldtree · 12-04-2013 1:32pm

Tollygunge wrote: »

Interesting early warning system being researched in England, may have an application here; as no case of wider environment infection of chalara has been detected in Ireland:http://www.telegraph.co.uk/earth/countryside/9859549/Early-warning-system-to-detect-tree-diseases-crossing-the-sea.html

Sounds like a great idea but Chestnut blight is already in the UK:

http://www.forestry.gov.uk/forestry/infd-8s5qbf

and as they dont appear to have bothered with a Geni II here i cant see them spending any money on any serious sort of proactive prevention for any wind bourne tree diseases, other than "keeping a close eye on things".

periodictable · 12-04-2013 3:12pm

Oldtree wrote: »

and as they dont appear to have bothered with a Geni II here i cant see them spending any money on any serious sort of proactive prevention for any wind bourne tree diseases, other than "keeping a close eye on things".

Yep chatting with some foresters at a meeting and consensus is that since McEntee died the pressure is off the FS re. Chalara and things sliding back to usual inaction

Tollygunge · 12-04-2013 10:46pm

Oldtree wrote: »

Sounds like a great idea but Chestnut blight is already in the UK:

http://www.forestry.gov.uk/forestry/infd-8s5qbf

and as they dont appear to have bothered with a Geni II here i cant see them spending any money on any serious sort of proactive prevention for any wind bourne tree diseases, other than "keeping a close eye on things".

The potential wiping out of Ash from the Irish Landscape is a national issue affecting more than just forestry. Ash is the predominant hedgerow tree species occurring in more than 50% of hedgerows, which probably amounts to more ash than forest ash, see county hedgerow surveys here:http://www.hedgelaying.ie/resources.php

Hedgerows take up 3.9% of the land area; forests occupy 11% in which ash is a relatively minor forest species at circa 3% of all forests.

County Councils, the NPWS and An Bord Failte to name a few should be equally throwing resources & energy behind combating it; as it will have a massively detrimental affect on the irish landscape as we know it if it becomes established.

periodictable · 12-04-2013 10:55pm

Tollygunge wrote: »

County Councils, the NPWS and An Bord Failte to name a few should be equally throwing resources & energy behind combating it; as it will have a massively detrimental affect on the irish landscape as we know it if it becomes established.

It's not going to happen. These are all public sector organizations who circle the wagons when any of their sister organizations are questioned. Added to that is the Cinderella status of forestry in the state, and the lack of both information and practical experience.

periodictable · 12-04-2013 11:11pm

COVENEY INVITES COMMENTS ON ALL-IRELAND CONTROL STRATEGY FOR ASH DIEBACK

The Minister for Agriculture, Food and the Marine Simon Coveney TD today invited comments from stakeholders on an All-Ireland Chalara Control Strategy. The draft Strategy developed jointly by DAFM with the Department of Agriculture and Rural Development (DARD) in Northern Ireland outlines an approach to identify, control and eradicate the disease that causes Chalara ash dieback. To date the disease has been identified on several planting sites, horticultural nurseries, roadsides and farm plantings in both jurisdictions and major efforts are continuing to destroy all sources of the deadly disease.

Speaking today Minister Coveney said “It is vital to have an all-Ireland approach to deal with this disease. It is equally important that all stakeholders engage in this process to ensure that together we can identify the best measures and policies and eradicate the disease from the island of Ireland. I have met with my counterpart Minister Michelle O’ Neill on this subject and in November last year both Ministers introduced similar legislation to restrict the movement of imported ash plants and wood into Ireland. We both acknowledge that more needs to be done and welcome comments from all stakeholders on the draft strategy.”

The draft strategy includes joint policies on surveillance, destruction, research collaboration, general awareness, advice etc. It is available to download on the DAFM website at
http://www.agriculture.gov.ie/media/migration/forestry/ashdiebackchalara/DraftAllIrelandChalaraControlStrategy120413.pdf Comments on the Strategy should be forwarded before Tuesday 30th April 2013 by email to [email]forestprotection@agriculture.gov.ie<mailto:forestprotection@agriculture.gov.ie[/email]>, or by post to Chalara Consultation, Forest Service, DAFM, 3 West, Agriculture house, Kildare Street, Dublin 2.

I'd encourage everyone to send in a submission.

TomOnBoard · 13-04-2013 12:45am

periodictable wrote: »

It's not going to happen. These are all public sector organizations who circle the wagons when any of their sister organizations are questioned. Added to that is the Cinderella status of forestry in the state, and the lack of both information and practical experience.

Amongst a number of other crises, our country is in a serious crisis with respect to the effects of Chalara on the fabric of our nation's landscape.

This thread could so easily be a positive mechanism that would help people during this crisis: to alleviate anxiety, promulgate positive activity and mitigate even if only by an iota of a %, the inevitable destruction.

Can we pleeeassseeee stop this continuous antagonism towards anything that is being done within and/or by the public sector and/or Government of the country.

WE GET IT- OK? THEY (unnamed, but in the FS) totally fu&^ed up AGAIN, and if they didn't CAUSE THIS, they catalysed it at best or prepared and eased its journey inwards at worst.

MOVE IT ON, PLEASE, and can we re-focus on how this can be tackled- If not BECAUSE OF THEM, then DESPITE THEM.

Because any satisfaction that you might gain by continuously blaming them, won't put out the Chalara fire that is raging in this land, and just waiting until ash-bud opening to make the extent of its presence, invisible over the past winter, obvious to all. My 26 Ha of Ash would prefer if those involved here would put their efforts into helping to resolve this, rather than stoking the fires of a blame game that will do nothing.

Oldtree · 13-04-2013 11:38am

Tollygunge wrote: »

The potential wiping out of Ash from the Irish Landscape is a national issue affecting more than just forestry. Ash is the predominant hedgerow tree species occurring in more than 50% of hedgerows, which probably amounts to more ash than forest ash, see county hedgerow surveys here:http://www.hedgelaying.ie/resources.php
Hedgerows take up 3.9% of the land area; forests occupy 11% in which ash is a relatively minor forest species at circa 3% of all forests.
County Councils, the NPWS and An Bord Failte to name a few should be equally throwing resources & energy behind combating it; as it will have a massively detrimental affect on the irish landscape as we know it if it becomes established.

To my own mind I agree totally with you as to the huge impact this will have on the landscape and as the owner of a semi natural woodland (no grants) with ancient woodland indicators on it, limestone pavement and working on the removal of sycamore from the interior to return it to an native ash/hazel woodland I am very worried.

If we take the mayo hedgerow survey as an example;
http://www.hedgelaying.ie/images/1254463114.pdf

"In common with all previous studies Hawthorn (Whitethorn) is the most commonly occurring hedgerow shrub found in 89% of sampled hedges. It also has, of the most commonly occurring species, the highest percentage cover in hedges. Five other species occur at frequencies of 20% or greater, these are Gorse (40%), Willow species (36%), Blackthorn (35%), Ash (27%) and Elder(22%). Rowan Holly and Sycamore occur at frequencies between 10 and 20%. All other species were recorded at levels of 10% or less."

"The ‘frequency of occurrence’ is the frequency with which each species is found in one or other of the two sampled 30m strips of each hedge. The “mean Domin abundance level” is a representation of the degree of cover of each species within the 30m sample strips. To arrive at the figure the average is taken of the relevant mid-point Domin percentage figure from each hedge in which the species occurs."

"Table 7.2.1 Frequency of woody species occurrence and mean abundance in sampled County Mayo hedges

Fraxinus excelsior Ash - Frequency of occurrence 26.7% - Mean Domin abundance level 4 4-10% cover"

and working from your figure of: "Hedgerows take up 3.9% of the land area; forests occupy 11% in which ash is a relatively minor forest species at circa 3% of all forests."

and with forest cover in ireland at nearly 11%: http://www.agriculture.gov.ie/publications/2011/annualreviewandoutlookforagriculturefisheriesandfood20102011/forestry/overview/

If i interpret these figures correctly then:

Ash occurs in 26.7% of the hedgerows surveyed in Mayo, actual cover (tree count to me) is between 4-10%, between 0.156% and up to 0.39% of total land area.
Ash occurs in 3% of forest land area up to 0.33% of total land area.
In your own words at 3% of all forests Ash is a minor forest species!

They (DOA, County Councils, the NPWS and An Bord Failte to name a few) have done very little for the to protect the 0.33% of affforested total land area we currently have (imo). What message can we put forward to the minister to bolster the case for the need to protect the lesser land area of between 0.156% and up to 0.39% of total land area that is hedgerow Ash?

How do we help him to value our Ash in the landscape as an integral part of the landscape?

How can we justify to him this proactive course of action and investment in financial terms that will have an impact?

Oldtree · 13-04-2013 11:42am

periodictable wrote: »

COVENEY INVITES COMMENTS ON ALL-IRELAND CONTROL STRATEGY FOR ASH DIEBACK

The Minister for Agriculture, Food and the Marine Simon Coveney TD today invited comments from stakeholders on an All-Ireland Chalara Control Strategy. The draft Strategy developed jointly by DAFM with the Department of Agriculture and Rural Development (DARD) in Northern Ireland outlines an approach to identify, control and eradicate the disease that causes Chalara ash dieback. To date the disease has been identified on several planting sites, horticultural nurseries, roadsides and farm plantings in both jurisdictions and major efforts are continuing to destroy all sources of the deadly disease.

Speaking today Minister Coveney said “It is vital to have an all-Ireland approach to deal with this disease. It is equally important that all stakeholders engage in this process to ensure that together we can identify the best measures and policies and eradicate the disease from the island of Ireland. I have met with my counterpart Minister Michelle O’ Neill on this subject and in November last year both Ministers introduced similar legislation to restrict the movement of imported ash plants and wood into Ireland. We both acknowledge that more needs to be done and welcome comments from all stakeholders on the draft strategy.”

The draft strategy includes joint policies on surveillance, destruction, research collaboration, general awareness, advice etc. It is available to download on the DAFM website at
http://www.agriculture.gov.ie/media/migration/forestry/ashdiebackchalara/DraftAllIrelandChalaraControlStrategy120413.pdf Comments on the Strategy should be forwarded before Tuesday 30th April 2013 by email to [email]forestprotection@agriculture.gov.ie<mailto:forestprotection@agriculture.gov.ie[/email]>, or by post to Chalara Consultation, Forest Service, DAFM, 3 West, Agriculture house, Kildare Street, Dublin 2.

I'd encourage everyone to send in a submission.

thanks Just going to read it now and digest.
I note that it took them 3 days to post this document online and do a press release, that must have strained their resources.

Oldtree · 13-04-2013 11:56am

TomOnBoard wrote: »

Amongst a number of other crises, our country is in a serious crisis with respect to the effects of Chalara on the fabric of our nation's landscape.

This thread could so easily be a positive mechanism that would help people during this crisis: to alleviate anxiety, promulgate positive activity and mitigate even if only by an iota of a %, the inevitable destruction.

Can we pleeeassseeee stop this continuous antagonism towards anything that is being done within and/or by the public sector and/or Government of the country.

WE GET IT- OK? THEY (unnamed, but in the FS) totally fu&^ed up AGAIN, and if they didn't CAUSE THIS, they catalysed it at best or prepared and eased its journey inwards at worst.

MOVE IT ON, PLEASE, and can we re-focus on how this can be tackled- If not BECAUSE OF THEM, then DESPITE THEM.

Because any satisfaction that you might gain by continuously blaming them, won't put out the Chalara fire that is raging in this land, and just waiting until ash-bud opening to make the extent of its presence, invisible over the past winter, obvious to all. My 26 Ha of Ash would prefer if those involved here would put their efforts into helping to resolve this, rather than stoking the fires of a blame game that will do nothing.

I would agree with you normally tom but we have seen what has happend to the bankers that distroyed this country, nothing really (why are we so liberally easy about them, no big marches there), so it may not be a bad thing to have a hammer to keep hammering away as a passionate voice may get through to these people who call themselves our leaders but seem incapable of leading. We have a fight on our hands to get our ash protected and believe me they are going to fight back to do less than nothing about the situation.

the big talk is there to see in their press release yestarday:
http://www.agriculture.gov.ie/press/pressreleases/2013/april/title,69727,en.html

and again I ask where are the Genie II's?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vsJo5-AxTr8
http://www.fera.defra.gov.uk/showNews.cfm?id=597

if it is any consolation to you the following from the new document may give you temporary solace and a reason to become more vocal to protect what you have from future negligence:

10. Objective 4 – building resilience in woodland and to support associated industries
Chalara ash dieback has not been detected in ash woodland in the wider environment in Ireland.

and also draw you to the final statement in the above genie video that the disease does not appear to be spreading given up to date info.

Chisler2 · 13-04-2013 1:07pm

[QUOTE (snip) can we re-focus on how this can be tackled- If not BECAUSE OF THEM, then DESPITE THEM (snip).[/QUOTE]

Yes! How can expert and experienced fora such as this get these issues introduced into the wider public sphere, with all their implications on every level? Only the weight of opinion and concern can swing this away from disaster. "It doesn't concern ME" is - alas - the mood of the age we live in. By what means can the general, long-term impacts of these diseases (and policies) be got into the sphere of general public awareness to sufficient extent to create pressure on both populace and government agencies to take action?

Chisler2 · 13-04-2013 1:11pm

A start in educating the general non-forestry public would be for someone to tell me what's a Genii?

periodictable · 13-04-2013 3:01pm

TomOnBoard wrote: »

Can we pleeeassseeee stop this continuous antagonism towards anything that is being done within and/or by the public sector and/or Government of the country.

WE GET IT- OK? THEY (unnamed, but in the FS) totally fu&^ed up AGAIN, and if they didn't CAUSE THIS, they catalysed it at best or prepared and eased its journey inwards at worst.

MOVE IT ON, PLEASE, and can we re-focus on how this can be tackled- If not BECAUSE OF THEM, then DESPITE THEM.

My livelihood is profoundly affected by the Forest Service. I expect professionalism and accountability at all levels.When it does its job properly, the criticism will cease. Believe me, I've only just begun.

"A body of men holding themselves accountable to nobody ought not to be trusted by anybody.”
Thomas Paine

Tollygunge · 13-04-2013 8:50pm

periodictable wrote: »

COVENEY INVITES COMMENTS ON ALL-IRELAND CONTROL STRATEGY FOR ASH DIEBACK

The Minister for Agriculture, Food and the Marine Simon Coveney TD today invited comments from stakeholders on an All-Ireland Chalara Control Strategy. The draft Strategy developed jointly by DAFM with the Department of Agriculture and Rural Development (DARD) in Northern Ireland outlines an approach to identify, control and eradicate the disease that causes Chalara ash dieback. To date the disease has been identified on several planting sites, horticultural nurseries, roadsides and farm plantings in both jurisdictions and major efforts are continuing to destroy all sources of the deadly disease.

Speaking today Minister Coveney said “It is vital to have an all-Ireland approach to deal with this disease. It is equally important that all stakeholders engage in this process to ensure that together we can identify the best measures and policies and eradicate the disease from the island of Ireland. I have met with my counterpart Minister Michelle O’ Neill on this subject and in November last year both Ministers introduced similar legislation to restrict the movement of imported ash plants and wood into Ireland. We both acknowledge that more needs to be done and welcome comments from all stakeholders on the draft strategy.”

The draft strategy includes joint policies on surveillance, destruction, research collaboration, general awareness, advice etc. It is available to download on the DAFM website at
http://www.agriculture.gov.ie/media/migration/forestry/ashdiebackchalara/DraftAllIrelandChalaraControlStrategy120413.pdf Comments on the Strategy should be forwarded before Tuesday 30th April 2013 by email to [email]forestprotection@agriculture.gov.ie<mailto:forestprotection@agriculture.gov.ie[/email]>, or by post to Chalara Consultation, Forest Service, DAFM, 3 West, Agriculture house, Kildare Street, Dublin 2.

I'd encourage everyone to send in a submission.

For a start a comprehensive centrally-coordinated systematic rapid survey, similar to that carried out in the UK should be carried out as a matter of urgency; prior to bud burst. How can we be sure Chalara is not in the wider environment unless this is done?

Early last November the British Forestry Commision centrally coordinated 500 state and voluntary personnel to survey 4 ash woods per 10k grid squares in some 2500 blocks over a 1 week period which allowed them to state:

I’d like to thank everyone involved in this survey. Together we’ve surveyed more than 92 per cent of England and all of Scotland and Wales so far – a tremendous achievement, especially in such a short time, which shows our combined determination to deal with Chalara.”

From here:http://www.forestry.gov.uk/newsrele.nsf/AllByUNID/A4CFA66141F457FE80257AAF004B3149

Targeted sites following known batches of suspect young plantation ash are fine but the genie may be out of the bottle(If you pardon the pun Oldtree) in terms of the wider environment. Now is the time to find out and deal with destroying these sites, if they are present; sporulation happens in June and continues through to September.

I don't think a one week period is too much to ask a large group of interested people to engage with this. From the Strategy it appears quite a large number of people are already trained in Chalara identification as is.

Oldtree · 13-04-2013 9:32pm

Chisler2 wrote: »

A start in educating the general non-forestry public would be for someone to tell me what's a Genii?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vsJo5-AxTr8
http://www.fera.defra.gov.uk/showNews.cfm?id=597

Tollygunge · 13-04-2013 9:58pm

Oldtree wrote: »

To my own mind I agree totally with you as to the huge impact this will have on the landscape and as the owner of a semi natural woodland (no grants) with ancient woodland indicators on it, limestone pavement and working on the removal of sycamore from the interior to return it to an native ash/hazel woodland I am very worried.

If we take the mayo hedgerow survey as an example;
http://www.hedgelaying.ie/images/1254463114.pdf

"In common with all previous studies Hawthorn (Whitethorn) is the most commonly occurring hedgerow shrub found in 89% of sampled hedges. It also has, of the most commonly occurring species, the highest percentage cover in hedges. Five other species occur at frequencies of 20% or greater, these are Gorse (40%), Willow species (36%), Blackthorn (35%), Ash (27%) and Elder(22%). Rowan Holly and Sycamore occur at frequencies between 10 and 20%. All other species were recorded at levels of 10% or less."

"The ‘frequency of occurrence’ is the frequency with which each species is found in one or other of the two sampled 30m strips of each hedge. The “mean Domin abundance level” is a representation of the degree of cover of each species within the 30m sample strips. To arrive at the figure the average is taken of the relevant mid-point Domin percentage figure from each hedge in which the species occurs."

"Table 7.2.1 Frequency of woody species occurrence and mean abundance in sampled County Mayo hedges

Fraxinus excelsior Ash - Frequency of occurrence 26.7% - Mean Domin abundance level 4 4-10% cover"

and working from your figure of: "Hedgerows take up 3.9% of the land area; forests occupy 11% in which ash is a relatively minor forest species at circa 3% of all forests."

and with forest cover in ireland at nearly 11%: http://www.agriculture.gov.ie/publications/2011/annualreviewandoutlookforagriculturefisheriesandfood20102011/forestry/overview/

If i interpret these figures correctly then:

Ash occurs in 26.7% of the hedgerows surveyed in Mayo, actual cover (tree count to me) is between 4-10%, between 0.156% and up to 0.39% of total land area.
Ash occurs in 3% of forest land area up to 0.33% of total land area.
In your own words at 3% of all forests Ash is a minor forest species!

They (DOA, County Councils, the NPWS and An Bord Failte to name a few) have done very little for the to protect the 0.33% of affforested total land area we currently have (imo). What message can we put forward to the minister to bolster the case for the need to protect the lesser land area of between 0.156% and up to 0.39% of total land area that is hedgerow Ash?

How do we help him to value our Ash in the landscape as an integral part of the landscape?

How can we justify to him this proactive course of action and investment in financial terms that will have an impact?

The ash coverage referred to in Foulkes hedgerow surveys relates to ash in the shrub layer rather than the tree layer, ash can be kept in the shrub layer through hedge trimming pretty much indefinitely and never form a tree as we know it. He only has ash tree layer occurence figures rather than coverage figures so it can only be stated that ash trees (as opposed to ash "shrub")occurs in 27.6% of hedgerows in Mayo; but there is no coverage estimate available. Hence it's unfortunately impossible to extrapolate an ash area in hedgerows from the surveys.

But the occurence figures do point to ash as the predominant tree species in Ireland's hedgerows. Apart from grassland, hedgerows are the predominant feature of our landscape.Just look at how our landscape has been so radically altered by Dutch Elm disease. Indeed ash has naturally infilled a lot of these affected areas in the interim but there is effectively nothing to replace ash in hedgerows if chalara becomes established; thats very evident from Foulkes surveys where ash is head and shoulders above every other tree species in terms of % occurence throughout the 13 counties he looked at. No other tree species is as effective as ash in self seeding hedgerow colonisation here.

That's why I think it's a wider issue than just the Minister for Agriculture; the Minister for the Environment and very definitely our Minister for Tourism and Sport (Hurling!) should be rowing in behind this with whatever resources are available to them. From the Chalara Control Strategy its very apparent there is a short window in which this disease may become eradicated if we are lucky i.e. the coming growing season. That's reason enough for an urgent coordinated government response to this.

Tollygunge · 13-04-2013 10:43pm

Excellent "Ashtag" system in use throughout the UK referred to in the Control Strategy:http://www.ashtag.org/

Web and smartphone app system in which anybody can upload pictures along with grid reference of suspect ash trees.

Seems like a no brainer that this should be brought in here immediately, surely can't cost too much to modify for Ireland.

Chisler2 · 14-04-2013 4:42pm

Many thanks Oldtree!

Oldtree · 15-04-2013 10:53am

Tollygunge wrote: »

The ash coverage referred to in Foulkes hedgerow surveys relates to ash in the shrub layer rather than the tree layer, ash can be kept in the shrub layer through hedge trimming pretty much indefinitely and never form a tree as we know it. He only has ash tree layer occurence figures rather than coverage figures so it can only be stated that ash trees (as opposed to ash "shrub")occurs in 27.6% of hedgerows in Mayo; but there is no coverage estimate available. Hence it's unfortunately impossible to extrapolate an ash area in hedgerows from the surveys.

That's reason enough for an urgent coordinated government response to this.

Thanks Tolly, he does state that "The most commonly occurring hedgerow tree in County Mayo is by far the Ash (Fraxinus excelsior) which is found in 31% of hedges (53% of hedges that contain trees)." (much higher in other counties)

What i was trying to do was to get a starting point to quantify Ash. Shrub or tree form dosnt really matter here as Ash is Ash. We need to quantify naturalised Ash in the landscape if we are going to get anywhere with a submission to the powers that be, and I think we have found a recorded minimum to start with. quantification.

Oldtree · 15-04-2013 10:55am

Tollygunge wrote: »

Excellent "Ashtag" system in use throughout the UK referred to in the Control Strategy:http://www.ashtag.org/

Web and smartphone app system in which anybody can upload pictures along with grid reference of suspect ash trees.

Seems like a no brainer that this should be brought in here immediately, surely can't cost too much to modify for Ireland.

Quite possibly beyond their imaginations, or they could have done it easily by now. Perhaps they are wating for a submission on it to move forward:rolleyes:

or maby they expect to us to email them pictures with a map and a plea to inspect?

Chisler2 · 15-04-2013 5:31pm

Oldtree wrote: »

Quite possibly beyond their imaginations, or they could have done it easily by now. Perhaps they are wating for a submission on it to move forward:rolleyes:

or maby they expect to us to email them pictures with a map and a plea to inspect?[/QUOTE

Since this is a broader ecological issue might it be feasible to 'piggy-back' an existing structure through which the public can monitor and submit? Such monitoring and submission occurs regularly already through the wonderful 'bird-watch' scheme which the ISPB runs annually and is popular, involving children and adults 'spotting' and recording species. This could be transferred to ash-plant die-back, and a creditable 'map' produced of occurrence available to the 'powers-that-be' within a week of launching the project through national and local press advertising. The newspapers could be asked to give free advertising space as their contribution, since their product and its cost depends on healthy trees.