Ash Dieback Disease (Chalara fraxinea) in Ireland

Oldtree

They're going to need a detailed submission on that! to get started. :rolleyes:

Confirmed findings in the UK at 15 April 2013:

Nursery sites - 19
Recently planted sites - 266
Wider environment, e.g. established woodland - 177
Total: 462

With a big jump in NI sites to 37
http://www.forestry.gov.uk/chalara

My reason for continuing to supply these figures on this thread is to allow a comparison with the efforts being made by the DOA here to keep us updated since the crisis entered the public arena. They get an update every 2 weeks or so in the UK we get 3 in total.

It also quantifies planted sites verses the wider environment at a ratio of about 2 to 3. Yet they still deny its in the wider environment here, which begs the question have they really looked?

"10. Objective 4 – "Chalara ash dieback has not been detected in ash woodland in the wider environment in Ireland."
http://www.agriculture.gov.ie/press/...,69727,en.html

crossbill

What about all the Ash planted on the motorways in the last ten years? Just look as you drive, its everywhwre, usually at the field side of motorway planting.
The majority of this was imported,probably from holland and denmark, and is most likely infected! I havent seen any of this being pulled up and it will be in leaf in june?
What an effective way to inoculate a country with a disease

TomOnBoard

crossbill wrote: »

What about all the Ash planted on the motorways in the last ten years? Just look as you drive, its everywhwre, usually at the field side of motorway planting.
The majority of this was imported,probably from holland and denmark, and is most likely infected! I havent seen any of this being pulled up and it will be in leaf in june?
What an effective way to inoculate a country with a disease

Your last sentence follows the by now well trodden norm in this thread of making a comment that implies that SOMEONE did SOMETHING to deliberately undermine this country's defenses against a conquerable enemy!

Chalara is here! Its been here for a while.

Bottom line, based on the Epidemiology, Ash is dead. If the march of Chalara from the East through Poland to Western Continental Europe and Scandinavia couldn't be stopped over the past decade or two, what evidence other than Hope, makes anyone think there will be a single non- infected Ash tree in the Irish wild in 2040?

So, the next 20-30 years is about minimising the economic and romantic pain, while maximising ANY gain that can be obtained.

As they said in PowerCity years ago: When its Gone, its Gone!

And folks, its Gone!

All the other hopeful sh^te about Genies here and prevention there mean nothing!

Man plans, and God laughs.

It's over, get the last of yer choc-ices 'n hurleys now!

And that's a fact!

Tollygunge

TomOnBoard wrote: »

Chalara is here! Its been here for a while.

Correction; Chalara is supposedly here only in imported ash plants on forest sites, nurseries, roadsides and a garden tree from an importing garden nursery. There is currently no evidence to show it's in the wider environment, as it is in the UK (excluding NI). These imported plants are being destroyed up and down the country at the moment; with the single aim of eradicating the disease from the country.

Personally I don't think there has been a proper widespread survey to be sure that it's not in the wider environment; but officially, at this point in time, we are in a whole different ballpark.

When/if widespread findings of chalara infection emerge in the wider environment then and only then is it time to throw in the towel on eradication and look at disease management.

We are fortunate to have the UK so actively engaged in the battle against chalara; the rest of europe basically did SFA over the past 20 years to try to prevent it's march through the continent.

Oldtree

Tom, I think it is important to recognise the possibilities of no ash in the future, but that is only one future, and we are not on the beaches just yet.

Scientists are working on possible ways to combat this disease and the more time we give them the better there is of a possibility of an innoculation. Therefore the genie's are a necessary tool to slow the spread of the disease to give time.

Tully, I think you are right, there has not been a deep enough centrally co-ordinated survey here to throw in the towel.

periodictable

"We are fortunate to have the UK so actively engaged in the battle against chalara."

"There has not been a deep enough centrally co-ordinated survey here to throw in the towel."

Well said. Take note FS.

crossbill

periodictable wrote: »

"We are fortunate to have the UK so actively engaged in the battle against chalara."

"There has not been a deep enough centrally co-ordinated survey here to throw in the towel."

Well said. Take note FS.

Surveys are all very well but I see no teams in high vis jackets out pulling up the motorway imported Ash!
This needs to be done before it comes in leaf and starts to spread the disease?
The NRA and CoCos need to do this now!

periodictable

Right!

Oldtree

crossbill wrote: »

Surveys are all very well but I see no teams in high vis jackets out pulling up the motorway imported Ash!
This needs to be done before it comes in leaf and starts to spread the disease?
The NRA and CoCos need to do this now!

These Ash plants probably come from an area that as yet is not known to be infected!!! :rolleyes: and therefore needs no action......as they have plant passports.
Have to wait till the area that they come from is designated as infected or indeed that the plants themselves show symptoms.
As most of europe appears to be infected what are they waiting for????
I'm not sure the DOA knows how to spell "pro-active" when it comes to Ash dieback, but they do know how to spell "keeping an eye"!

crossbill

Oldtree wrote: »

These Ash plants probably come from an area that as yet is not known to be infected!!! :rolleyes: and therefore needs no action......as they have plant passports.
Have to wait till the area that they come from is designated as infected or indeed that the plants themselves show symptoms.
As most of europe appears to be infected what are they waiting for????
I'm not sure the DOA knows how to spell "pro-active" when it comes to Ash dieback, but they do know how to spell "keeping an eye"!

Thats my point, there have been confirmed cases from roadside plantings and landscapers have told me that there is no need for plant passports for this material so no one knows what is where.

Oldtree

crossbill wrote: »

Thats my point, there have been confirmed cases from roadside plantings and landscapers have told me that there is no need for plant passports for this material so no one knows what is where.

sorry bill, I was being sarcastic. Innumerable plants have been brought here and planted in many places that have spurious origins. Good quality cheap plants galore from the good old infected EU.

I agree with you rip them all out to try to save our native ash.

Another horrendous aspect to the importation of plants is the dilution of our native stock by cross pollination.

Chisler2

crossbill wrote: »

Surveys are all very well but I see no teams in high vis jackets out pulling up the motorway imported Ash!
This needs to be done before it comes in leaf and starts to spread the disease?
The NRA and CoCos need to do this now!

...........pull it all up after or before the survey to establish the disease locations? Are you of the persuasion that it preferable to "take it all out" rather than let the disease take it all out? It is not all infected. The extent
of the problem needs to be established; then focussed interventions may - just possibly - save something.

crossbill

Chisler2 wrote: »

...........pull it all up after or before the survey to establish the disease locations? Are you of the persuasion that it preferable to "take it all out" rather than let the disease take it all out? It is not all infected.

I am, if it was recently imported from infected countries, and before it comes into leaf again!

Oldtree

as it appears that we can only establish where the disease is based on visual confirmation here, (no genie's and it is my understanding that very few tests can be carried out here in labs, cost etc) it seems that we will be watching our ash with a close eye come the spring.

remember they are not proactive, wait and see... keep an eye.... :rolleyes:

Bill would be proactive, vote Bill for president :P

Bill's suggestion would seen prudent.

Oldtree

One thing missed in the new draft document is the preservation of our ash genetic stock lines for the future. This may be the last year we could collect uncontaminated seed from all over the island to preserve or work with/from in the future.

wayoutwest

Oldtree- How long would the seeds keep for [if kept cool and dry]?

How would I know if the donor tree is [genetically] naturally
immune or suseptable to the disease in the future?

I have to fell large ash and was hoping for regrowth from the
crown [also some surgery on other mature ash limbs] -will the
exposed wood make it easy for disease to invade ? -and if so, is
there anything I should be applying to create a barrier.?

Thanks for all your usefull postings. It just occured to me that
it might be a good idea to post up pictures of the Ash Dieback
on boards forums that are connected to spending time outdoors
ie; Anging,paintballing,shooting,equesrian,birdwatching etc.

Was thinkng of preparing for the worst, and planting another
species of tree a few feet away from existing mature ash [away
from future felling side]. What species would be best, with
regards to growing next to and maybe slightly under?. I have
garden landscape and 'light windows' between large specimin
ash....so I don't want to plant in these gaps.......beech??

Oldtree

wayoutwest wrote: »

Oldtree- How long would the seeds keep for [if kept cool and dry]?

How would I know if the donor tree is [genetically] naturally
immune or suseptable to the disease in the future?

I have to fell large ash and was hoping for regrowth from the
crown [also some surgery on other mature ash limbs] -will the
exposed wood make it easy for disease to invade ? -and if so, is
there anything I should be applying to create a barrier.?

Thanks for all your usefull postings. It just occured to me that
it might be a good idea to post up pictures of the Ash Dieback
on boards forums that are connected to spending time outdoors
ie; Anging,paintballing,shooting,equesrian,birdwatching etc.

Was thinkng of preparing for the worst, and planting another
species of tree a few feet away from existing mature ash [away
from future felling side]. What species would be best, with
regards to growing next to and maybe slightly under?. I have
garden landscape and 'light windows' between large specimin
ash....so I don't want to plant in these gaps.......beech??

The seeds could be kept indefinitely if this was done professionally.

Have you a picture of your mature ash/s? from a couple of angles? Why are you doing the surgery. mature crown reduction in ash is frought with many other issues before you would get to worrying about ash dieback.

Tree paints and the such like are worse than useless, so no, but the disease seems to be getting in via new leaves/twigs not old wood, and old wood on older trees seems to be compartementalising better than on young trees.

posting pics on other forums is a great idea.

Wouldnt plant anything under my own mature ash until the actually showed signs of the disease and only then if they needed to be felled. Again a picture of the garden would enable better comment.

wayoutwest

Sorry Oldtree - I mean't stump- not crown.I took down a large Ash six years ago [150 years old] and its now sprouted a healthy set of new stems that must be 20' high -so i was hoping for the same result with another one [which received some non-professional,heavy crown surgery at the same time, and has not yeided much growth since.=big unsighly 'claw'.

The other surgery I have to do is a result of the same 'wokmanship'[where 6-8" limbs were cut between growth points- leaving 'deadwood projection beyond the new growth point.Sorry - cant do pics at the moment.I once heard that rubbing a bit of soil [gathered from around the roots] onto the face of the cut limb- protects against disease- is that just an old wives tale?


Think you are right about not planting under in prep for the worse. Was thinking of growing some trees in my veg plot instead-small beech pricked of local forest floor[at least I will know that they won't be carrying some disease from foriegn shores.

The_Conductor

Very often you may find antibiotic agents in the soil- which would provide limited protection to trees and vegetation against bacterial borne disease, such as cankers. Unfortunately- they provide no protection whatsoever to viral borne disease, such as Chalara.

Oldtree

smccarrick wrote: »

Very often you may find antibiotic agents in the soil- which would provide limited protection to trees and vegetation against bacterial borne disease, such as cankers. Unfortunately- they provide no protection whatsoever to viral borne disease, such as Chalara.

I suppose that if the antibiotic agents were absorbed through the roots then thy may be of some use, but the application of soil (with more doubious pathogens contained there in than antibiotic agents) directly to a wound would be inappropiate.

Oldtree

But I have just remembered a story that I was told recently that mud was used effectivly for grafting fruit trees in the past.

The_Conductor

Oldtree wrote: »

But I have just remembered a story that I was told recently that mud was used effectivly for grafting fruit trees in the past.

Same sort of stories I've heard about using butter to root cuttings from samples acquired that aren't readily available. Apparently the idea is the butter decomposes producing butyric acid (same as you'd use when you're making silage) which is a precursor to the likes of Seradix. Apparently its remarkably effective- though I've never tried it myself.

Oldtree

Uk Confirmed findings of Ash Dieback sites at 22 April 2013:

Nursery sites - 20
Recently planted sites - 286
Wider environment, e.g. established woodland - 178
Total: 484

Jump in the last week again, up to 46 now in NI

http://www.forestry.gov.uk/chalara

crossbill

Have the ROI figures been updated recently?

Oldtree

Only 3 sets of figures in total Bill. latest figures are from 27th March.

http://www.agriculture.gov.ie/forestservice/ashdiebackchalara/

and the accompanying map of infected sites: (but Horticultural Nursery and Garden Centre Findings Not Shown thereon)

http://www.agriculture.gov.ie/media/migration/forestry/ashdiebackchalara/Chalarafraxineaconfirmedfindings27032013.pdf

Oldtree

Combined map of currently known infected sites on this island:

tabby aspreme

Kilkenny is littered with it, ironic with all the hurleys they need.
Is there any way to find out the exact locations, I was thinking of contacting coillte to ask are any of the plants I planted in 2010 which were imported part of an infected batch , surely they know through plant provenance which consignments were infected

Massey10

If a forest gets ask die back disease will the owner get funds to replant or must he cover the cost.

crossbill

Oldtree wrote: »

Combined map of currently known infected sites on this island:

Thanks oldtree, wasnt sure if I was missing something as info seems old!
Dont know if you can clarify but I presume that this is forestry only and doesnt include infected roadside planting!

Oldtree

crossbill wrote: »

Thanks oldtree, wasnt sure if I was missing something as info seems old!
Dont know if you can clarify but I presume that this is forestry only and doesnt include infected roadside planting!

from here bill:
http://www.agriculture.gov.ie/forestservice/ashdiebackchalara/

Confirmed findings (as of 27 March 2013) of ash dieback (Chalara fraxinea)

Forestry Plantations 31
Counties: Carlow, Cavan, Clare, Galway, Kildare, Kilkenny, Leitrim, Longford, Meath, Tipperary, Waterford

Horticultural Nurseries 14
Garden Centres 3
Private Garden 1
Farm Planting / AEOS 3
Roadside Planting 5

They arn't keeping us up to date and info/detail is sparse. The map does not show Horticultural Nursery and Garden Centre Findings but presumably shows the roadside infected planting, but nothing is specified.