Property Price Register

Sleepy

Can property prices ever hope to achieve a full correction when the government are paying out so much in rent allowance?

Since that applies a floor to rental prices does this mean that in a tightly controlled credit environment such as we're operating in now, prices will only ever drop to the point where anyone with a little more than a deposit in cash can cover the mortgage on that property by renting to Rent Allowance tenants?

magicbastarder

whatever the context, property prices are either rising or they're not. the media should report on it.

Monty Burnz

magicbastarder wrote: »

whatever the context, property prices are either rising or they're not. the media should report on it.

Indeed - report, not spin it. Especially seeing as the media industry has a vested interest in getting the property market booming again.

The quoted article is 99% spin.

Mr.Wemmick

Monty Burnz wrote: »

Indeed - report, not spin it. Especially seeing as the media industry has a vested interest in getting the property market booming again.

The quoted article is 99% spin.

Agreed. It is not reporting on it that is the problem, it is the way it is being reported.. indeed, it is the written intent of fooling honest, hardworking people that I have a problem with.

Scortho

Mr.Wemmick wrote: »

Agreed. It is not reporting on it that is the problem, it is the way it is being reported.. indeed, it is the written intent of fooling honest, hardworking people that I have a problem with.

In fairness though if you were to be fooled by it would you even manage to get a mortgage....

Monty Burnz

Scortho wrote: »

In fairness though if you were to be fooled by it would you even manage to get a mortgage....

Plenty did during the boom years. Unfortunately, common sense is not one of the things they test for when deciding on mortgage eligibility.

EricPraline

Mr.Wemmick wrote: »

I agree with other posters who state that the houses being bought, 3 bed semis, in and around Dublin, are for the long term and that is the increase we are seeing.

About 12-18 months ago, a few economists where speculating about the possibility of a multi-tier property market in Ireland, where we might see limited recovery in a small number of urban areas, and long-term falls or stagnation in remote or "less desirable" areas.

A browse through the PPR for Dublin seems to back this up. The gap between asking and sales in some traditionally "nice" areas of Dublin is surprisingly low, while in other areas houses are selling far below the current asking prices in Myhome and Daft. So maybe speaking about "the Irish property market" as some consistent, cohesive unit doesn't make a whole lot of sense, in the same way that saying that the Irish economy is fecked does not reflect the fact that certain industries in Ireland are doing relatively well at present.

Scortho

Monty Burnz wrote: »

Plenty did during the boom years. Unfortunately, common sense is not one of the things they test for when deciding on mortgage eligibility.

In fairness though we're along way on from the boom now. What I meant was would you be capable of getting a mortgage today if this article had convinced you to go out and buy? there is so much crap in that article that it reminds me of the soft landing ones!

However some house prices are rising especially in South dublin, but only marginally.

box_car_maker

EricPraline wrote: »

About 12-18 months ago, a few economists where speculating about the possibility of a multi-tier property market in Ireland, where we might see limited recovery in a small number of urban areas, and long-term falls or stagnation in remote or "less desirable" areas.

A browse through the PPR for Dublin seems to back this up. The gap between asking and sales in some traditionally "nice" areas of Dublin is surprisingly low, while in other areas houses are selling far below the current asking prices in Myhome and Daft. So maybe speaking about "the Irish property market" as some consistent, cohesive unit doesn't make a whole lot of sense, in the same way that saying that the Irish economy is fecked does not reflect the fact that certain industries in Ireland are doing relatively well at present.

yes , the property market in ireland is not one single homogonous entity , their are micro markets in dublin , let alone the country as a whole , their will be no real rise in the price of houses in any number of provincial towns for years to come while much sought after areas in dublin are already rising

Dannyboy83

http://www.rte.ie/news/money/mortgages/cash-is-king-in-housing-market.html
Four in 10 house purchases are now made in cash as the lack of credit in the mortgage market continues to impact property prices.
New figures from estate agents Sherry Fitzgerald also show there is so little activity in the housing market that executor sales now account for 23% of all sales.
It says the quantity of stock on sale has fallen 25% year on year and puts the amount of cash transactions down to a lack of mortgage lending by the banks.
“Looking over the past 10 or 15 years, there were a negligible amount of cash buyers. I would say 95% to 98% of buyers were mortgage financed,” said Marian Finnegan, chief economist with Sherry Fitzgerald.
“Cash buying is a notable trend. In the last 18 months cash has been coming out from beneath the floorboards and this is borne out by the property price register. At the very upper end of the market - €2m plus, it is almost all cash,” said Finnegan.
She said the banks need to take note of the fact that people who have cash are willing to invest because they think they are getting value for money.
Sherry Fitzgerald is forecasting around €2bn in mortgage lending for 2012 compared to €40bn in the boom. It needs to be trending towards €10bn for the market to stabilise completely.

http://www.independent.ie/business/personal-finance/property-mortgages/cash-buyers-move-in-for-kill-as-property-going-cheap-3255624.html

CASH buyers are snapping up the majority of properties at auction, as they sell at prices 65pc lower than the peak of the housing market, a new study shows.

..

Auctioned properties are going for prices 65pc lower than the peak of 2007, compared with a 50pc fall for the rest of the market, the Central Bank found.

And bargain-hunting buyers are generally paying with cash instead of relying on mortgages from banks.

The analysis of the Allsop Space auctions showed that Dublin properties achieved auction prices closer to market asking prices. However, houses and apartments outside of Dublin sold for less than the sellers were asking for, according to the study by economist Eoin O'Brien. Houses achieved relatively better prices than apartments.

The research, entitled 'Residential Property Auctions: What Do They Tell Us?' found that auction prices are also just over 20pc below current asking prices as compiled by the website Daft.ie.

No surprises here.
Looks like Morgan Kelly was spot on - Cash buyers are cleaning up.

Interested to see that selling prices are 20% lower than asking prices, I'm noticing the same trend myself.

We'll see another big dip next year by about March I think, especially at the lower end of the market, I guess things will stabilize after that then, unless there are more tax increases coming.

krd

thebman wrote: »

Houses going for 5,000 Euro in more than a few areas where the other house prices are all 150,000 in same estate etc...

Why do you think that's surprising?


A new build estate I know - (2005) - there's been a house empty, and board up windows since the word go. It's probably only worth 5,000. The other houses, you might get an eejit who'd buy one for 150k - my old landlord on that estate paid 250k for his.

DoesNotCompute

The register only seems to contain data up to 5th October. How often is it updated?

Geuze

In the context of the legal system, sales up to 5th Oct available by 16th Oct is very good going, in my opinion.

Sleepy

Or an indication of the just how inefficient our Legal system is...

Red Actor

DoesNotCompute wrote: »

The register only seems to contain data up to 5th October. How often is it updated?

It's updated once a week - more or less - looks like they're beginning to get lazy after being updated nearly every Wednesday since it launched http://propertypriceregisterireland.com/graph/

Geuze

The correct URL is:

www.propertypriceregister.ie

nemesis1000

Yes I noticed this also. They didn't bother updating it for all October!

Geuze

It's the 17-Oct today.

The latest Dublin date of sale appearing is 27-Sep.



Legal transactions are not updated like, e.g. bank ATM transactions.

If the buyer and seller both sign contracts on 1st of month, I'd say you 'd be very lucky if the transaction appears on the PPR by end-of-month.

Red Actor

Geuze wrote: »

The correct URL is:

www.propertypriceregister.ie

the PPR only shows the last update and the url I gave shows the last number of updates to the PPR - shows it was getting updated about once a week up to its first birthday.

Brussels Sprout

Are there any decent websites out there that are doing anything with this data?

DoesNotCompute

Brussels Sprout wrote: »

Are there any decent websites out there that are doing anything with this data?

Daft.ie and MyHome.ie seem to be using this data in their maps and search results

Would be cool if someone took the data and enhanced it with number of bedrooms, bathrooms, floor size, etc of each property

murphaph

DoesNotCompute wrote: »

Daft.ie and MyHome.ie seem to be using this data in their maps and search results

Would be cool if someone took the data and enhanced it with number of bedrooms, bathrooms, floor size, etc of each property

That's not likely to ever be added to properties already recorded in this DB. They should be looking to make it mandatory as part of any conveyancing that such details (but perhaps more importantly the total square footage of house and grounds).

The register is going to be a lot more useful once postcodes are actually rolled out, whenever that may be. Currently it's extremely difficult to accurately compare properties that might be very close to each other.

I can't imagine how daft and myhome are using the data from outside urban areas. The addresses are just too vague-housename + townland + county (how many properties appear in the register) will not be enough to locate properties accurately enough to map. Townlands are often duplicated as are housenames. It's a mess without postcodes.

It's some use in urban areas but many Dublin properties are missing the postal district field. Some properties have corrupt character encoding (I imported the csv files for 2010-2013 into a DB today and the encoding for Irish langauage characters is broken. It's even broken on the website itself (Things like Baile ?tha Cliath came up a few times). Not sure at what point the encoding broke, could have been done at Revenue. A poor show anyway.

jon1981

Any ideas why a house sold 18 months ago and now being lived in is not on PPR? The house was never formally up for sale through an estate agent but a transaction did take place. Any reason it wouldn't show?

DoesNotCompute

jon1981 wrote: »

Any ideas why a house sold 18 months ago and now being lived in is not on PPR? The house was never formally up for sale through an estate agent but a transaction did take place. Any reason it wouldn't show?

The first thing that springs to mind is if the house was "never formally for sale", then there may have been some deal done with the builder or previous occupant to purchase the house "under the table" - i.e. the transaction was not declared to Revenue.

Don't take my word for it though - I don't even know if this is possible / legal / legit.

jon1981

Yeah, i have no idea! But really curious to know how you can avoid your transaction being published. Even if it was "under the table" the deeds would have to be transferred by a solicitor and the land registry/stamp duty paid...so i presume the revenue would still be aware of it?