Property Price Register

krd

Dannyboy83 wrote: »

Based on the research I've done so far, houses have been selling for about 20% below the asking prices in the areas I've been looking at - with the odd person getting absolutely screwed and paying twice the asking price!

It's strange. Although, I've just looked at a few areas I'm familiar with, there isn't an even drop like 20%.

There are a few houses that have been on the market that I've been following for years. One house outside of Dublin, the Daft asking price was 90k. Sounds low?.....The sale price was 25k. That 25k house was 3 bedrooms, and in okay condition. If you rented it at €150 a month you'd clear the mortgage in under 5 years.

At the same time in the same area, there are houses selling for prices not too far off the boom time. Which goes to show, there are still plenty of eejits out there.

Looking at part of North Dublin I know well, there have been house sales way way way way down in price from the boom time.

The real difference the property register will make, will be to even out prices. You won't have two identical houses on the same estate going for radically different prices.

The other thing, that may strike you is there are sweet f'all transactions happening. In a town I was looking at, there are more than 200 properties on the morket - but there have only been about 20 transactions in two years. So, nothing is moving.

krd

Scofflaw wrote: »

Some preliminary fun with the figures - houses in Dublin (not flats):

I lived in Coolmine. It's a surprisingly nice area. The landlord had the house on the market - he wanted 1.2 Million for it. His asking price appears to have been off by a factor of ten.

Top and bottom of the table are unsurprising.

I'm surprised many prices are still so high. I would say the banks have been very careful to keep them hyped up. In reality, if banks have the cash, and a supply of eejits, they can set the prices. EVEN if there is no real market demand.

Maybe some people still had cash, or were creditworthy.

I also know someone who has a very ordinary house in Clontarf on the morket. They're looking for over a million for it.

ArraMusha

Finally a register of property prices!

I bet the auctioneers/estate agents, or whatever they're calling themselves are hiding today, seeing as their essential job requirement has been exposed....that requirement being telling lies while keeping a straight face while not breaking sentence.

The prices on this site are based on stamp duty paid so it should be relatively accurate. I know of another sale that is also not shown.

To add to this register it would be another great help for buyers (on their largest and most important life purchase) by coming up with a method of confirming offers/bids. This would remove the greatest unknown when buying a house....the fake bidder.
Perhaps something 'on the flavour of paypal' that could confirm a genuine offer....

:cool:

Tonio 50

Our house bought last August is not on the database. When I email them, the email bounces back!

Scortho

While we have a register at last (and should be grateful) its of little use if one is trying to figure out what the price/square footage should be for an area which is very handy when calculating if a house is of comparable value to the others on the street!

Black Smoke

Tonio 50 wrote: »

Our house bought last August is not on the database. When I email them, the email bounces back!

You need to call Joe Duffy! Get a good hour in, practicing how to moan properly before you call!!

maroondog

krd wrote: »

She should check that her solicitor fully processed the sale.

Sale was all done and dusted summer 2011. Its up to solicitor then to pass on the details of the sale I believe. Maybe the details havent been filled out/ passed to the body maintaining the Price Register or maybe it yet to be added to Register yet and is just a delay.

Its only first couple of days its gone live so may well have additional sales added re Sales gone thru already that are currently omitted. The Minister for Justice had made a commitment to have it up and running by end of September so to keep face they may of launched it without every sales transaction being included.

Laminations

Scofflaw wrote: »

Some preliminary fun with the figures - houses in Dublin (not flats):

Santry|32|€445,883.19

Top and bottom of the table are unsurprising.

Santry average is surprising. It's place on the table seems anomalously high

Also Phibsboro has two averages, odd that adding a 'ugh' to the place name boosts the average price!

Cookie_Monster

hmmm last valuation on my parents house 875k, one up the road sold for 320, some drop!

magicbastarder

Tonio 50 wrote: »

Our house bought last August is not on the database. When I email them, the email bounces back!

there may have been a spelling mistake. i've seen one house listed as sold in 'drumcindra'.

McTigs

So apparantly, this is all proof that property is back on the rise.

http://www.independent.ie/business/personal-finance/property-mortgages/new-property-register-shows-house-prices-are-on-the-rise-3247264.html

omahaid

Don't forget this

http://www.independent.ie/business/personal-finance/property-mortgages/best-time-to-buy-property-is-now-claims-noonan-3243829.html

"Best time to buy property is now, claims Noonan"

There is definitely more of a push lately from some parts to "restart" our bubble.

magicbastarder

there are places where property has been on the rise; and it's down to several factors. one is that there is a segment of the populace relatively untouched by the recession, albeit paying more in tax. there's a shortage of houses on the market, and people (especially couples in their 30s, i suspect - from having seen them in their droves at some house viewings) who want to get out of the rental market, and get into a 'family home'; and who are able to afford to, because of the 66% fall in house prices.
they're not going to worry unduly about calling the bottom, if they're buying a house they intend to live in for ten years. a 10% fall in the value of the house over the next year is less of a worry than having to continue to rent for the next year; paying €15,000 in rent versus looking at maybe a €25,000 fall in the value of the house they want to buy is not their biggest concern.

Scofflaw

magicbastarder wrote: »

there may have been a spelling mistake. i've seen one house listed as sold in 'drumcindra'.

The data is riddled with spelling mistakes...there are at least 8 different spellings of "Dublin", for example.

cordially,
Scofflaw

Dannyboy83

omahaid wrote: »

Don't forget this

http://www.independent.ie/business/personal-finance/property-mortgages/best-time-to-buy-property-is-now-claims-noonan-3243829.html

"Best time to buy property is now, claims Noonan"

There is definitely more of a push lately from some parts to "restart" our bubble.

Good/bad time to buy property statements are kind of redundant imo, since it's all relevant to the individual.

It's true that there is a gap opening up between urban and non-urban areas tho. That will only increase as fuel costs rise and services decline. So perhaps it's a good time in general if you plan to buy a house at the upper end of the market.
For a standard 3bed semi-d, it's not yet a good time. Property tax, water taxes, removal of Mortgage Interest Relief and 8 more austerity budgets will continue to drive down sale prices & are creating too much uncertainty - not just for borrowers, but for lenders too.

The best urban areas are stabilising or have stabilised, such as parts of Cork South Central, while other areas are far from stabilising (& I'm not referring to sh1tholes where nobody would want to live).

==

B]rant[/B

On a side note, I was listening to some academic on Newstalk waffling out his cakehole this morning about 'The Irish obsession with property'.

He recited this big fcuk off spiel about 19th century Ireland and all this complete cr@p which modern people have no knowledge of, while utterly ignoring all the real & present day issues why people actually want to buy property, such as the failure to legislate/regulate the residential rental market in Ireland.

It's like talking about the high rate of car ownership in Ireland and connecting it to the feudal system, while utterly ignoring the issues with present day public transport such as cost, reliability.

[/rant]

barryo79

Here is a version we knocked together with easier access (as well as some links to other online versions): http://www.opensolutions.ie/ppr/

Dannyboy83

barryo79 wrote: »

Here is a version we knocked together with easier access (as well as some links to other online versions): http://www.opensolutions.ie/ppr/

Sortable columns - something which is badly lacking from the official site.

Dr Galen

Dannyboy83 wrote: »

Sortable columns - something which is badly lacking from the official site.

You'd almost think that they didn't want to make it too easy for the average Joe to go hoking around in the data too much. Course, thats me just being cynical and a bit CT......isn't it...nah, surely not.

McTigs

Dannyboy83 wrote: »

Good/bad time to buy property statements are kind of redundant imo, since it's all relevant to the individual.

It's true that there is a gap opening up between urban and non-urban areas tho. That will only increase as fuel costs rise and services decline. So perhaps it's a good time in general if you plan to buy a house at the upper end of the market.
For a standard 3bed semi-d, it's not yet a good time. Property tax, water taxes, removal of Mortgage Interest Relief and 8 more austerity budgets will continue to drive down sale prices & are creating too much uncertainty - not just for borrowers, but for lenders too.

The best urban areas are stabilising or have stabilised, such as parts of Cork South Central, while other areas are far from stabilising (& I'm not referring to sh1tholes where nobody would want to live).

==

B]rant[/B

On a side note, I was listening to some academic on Newstalk waffling out his cakehole this morning about 'The Irish obsession with property'.

He recited this big fcuk off spiel about 19th century Ireland and all this complete cr@p which modern people have no knowledge of, while utterly ignoring all the real & present day issues why people actually want to buy property, such as the failure to legislate/regulate the residential rental market in Ireland.

It's like talking about the high rate of car ownership in Ireland and connecting it to the feudal system, while utterly ignoring the issues with present day public transport such as cost, reliability.

[/rant]

i wouldn't call it complete crap, the irish clearly, clearly, have a completely irrational obsession with property. I know perfectly intelligent people, with successful carears in various diciplines who completely lose all sense of reason and logic when it comes to property.
Pointing to 19th century ireland is probably not too far off the mark, we are conditioned from an early age to believe home ownership is a fundemental aspiration and that's something that has been handed down through generations (and 19th century ireland was only a few generations ago). Definitely folks of my parents generation regarded anyone renting after the age of thirty to be a "fly by night" or "not putting down roots", like not getting out a mortgage was an act of social deviation.

Thank god it's changing now, just a shame it's cost a generation of young people getting royally screwed for everyone to wake up a bit.

Dannyboy83

McTigs wrote: »

i wouldn't call it complete crap, the irish clearly, clearly, have a completely irrational obsession with property

Put it this way, my brother in law is German.
He never owned a house and never aspired to own a house.
He was perfectly happy to rent for life in Germany. Their system facilitates it.

During the Pyramid years when he lived here, he was screaming stop - telling everyone they were in a property bubble but couldn't see it. Everyone thought he was just 'being German' and against property ownership.
But he bought a house in the UK recently...

The Irish were historically highly conformist, now heavily non-conformist, huge social progression in recent years.
But the trend persists among modern Irish in spite of all this social upheavel.

Whenever there is a widespread trend (note that home ownership among non-Irish is also on the increase), I think that is usually a pretty good indicator of a reaction, not necessarily a symptom of preconceived idea.

magicbastarder

Dannyboy83 wrote: »

He recited this big fcuk off spiel about 19th century Ireland and all this complete cr@p which modern people have no knowledge of, while utterly ignoring all the real & present day issues why people actually want to buy property, such as the failure to legislate/regulate the residential rental market in Ireland.

you may be confusing cause and effect here. the lack of a strong rental culture may have resulted in a lack of strong rental laws, rather than having been caused by it.

Dannyboy83

magicbastarder wrote: »

you may be confusing cause and effect here. the lack of a strong rental culture may have resulted in a lack of strong rental laws, rather than having been caused by it.

You are correct and that is an issue, hence we have the PRTB and Threshold instead of legislation/regulation, but he didn't cite the lack of a rental culture as being a cause.

At the moment, rents in Ireland are completely out of sync with the rest of Europe - compare Cork with Northern France or Berlin (NB: please don't compare London here - London is 1 of the world's 3 global cities with incomparable opportunities and competition), and home ownership rates are a low point, especially among the younger generation.

Now have the younger Irish suddenly adopted an affinity for renting and an aversion to home ownership?
No - the mortgage application rates do not show this to be the case.

Anyway, I'm dragging this topic off the rails, so I'll desist, my point was just that these academics are looking way back in the past for historical reasons, instead of examining present day reasons or historical factors which created the present day reasons.

JoeyJJ

My house is there, and happy with the price versus sales in the area in 2011, a couple cheaper this year but still competitive in the area. Not that I am bothered too much I am not selling or think of it as something I can make money from.

strandroad

Dannyboy83 wrote: »

It's true that there is a gap opening up between urban and non-urban areas tho. That will only increase as fuel costs rise and services decline. So perhaps it's a good time in general if you plan to buy a house at the upper end of the market.
For a standard 3bed semi-d, it's not yet a good time. Property tax, water taxes, removal of Mortgage Interest Relief and 8 more austerity budgets will continue to drive down sale prices & are creating too much uncertainty - not just for borrowers, but for lenders too.

The best urban areas are stabilising or have stabilised, such as parts of Cork South Central, while other areas are far from stabilising (& I'm not referring to sh1tholes where nobody would want to live).

I think there may also be a gap opening between "family homes" and other homes. We are monitoring some more modest (but not dodgy) areas of SCD for a 2-bed with larger living space, think smaller bungalow or decent townhouse type of thing. From our list of links we observed not one sold for more than asking, most sold for -10-15%, some for -20% and a lot have been listed for ages not going anywhere if the value is not there. At the same time it is reported that 3+beds in similar areas are scarce and their prices are rising. I am definitely not seeing it in the sector we observe though. We may have gotten too many "starter homes" and not enough "family homes" built and the gap between the two bands is now widening.

magicbastarder

there was a case a few years back where a developer appealed a planning decision that the apartments in the development he wanted to build were too small - it went to court, and the judge upheld the planning decision, on the basis that the apartments were of a size that they'd probably rarely be occupied by someone for more than five years at a time, thus creating a kinda transient population. iirc, it set a lower limit on the size of developments in dublin.

McTigs

McTigs wrote: »

So apparantly, this is all proof that property is back on the rise.

http://www.independent.ie/business/personal-finance/property-mortgages/new-property-register-shows-house-prices-are-on-the-rise-3247264.html

They have the most one sided bias i have ever seen. After years of pumping up property prices with their magazines and reporters. Now for the past 6 months they have articles every week saying how all property is on the rise.
It has to be co-ordinated by somebody.

Mr.Wemmick

Deleted User wrote: »

They have the most one sided bias i have ever seen. After years of pumping up property prices with their magazines and reporters. Now for the past 6 months they have articles every week saying how all property is on the rise.
It has to be co-ordinated by somebody.

..and odd how all of these articles written by the paper are mostly to be left untouched by public opinion as they do not allow comments. Ha! Too funny! Why destroy their attempts of creating a new bubble with the voice of public reason and reality.

I thought the "irrational pessimism" comment hilarious. As if the downturn is solely the fault of public feeling and nothing at all to do with austerity budgets, negative equity, mortgage arrears, unemployment, rising costs, tax increases, service cuts.. :rolleyes:

seamus

magicbastarder wrote: »

is the price you pay (in what would generally be considered by most people as a private transaction) a matter of public record?
i.e. why should mr. jones be given the ability to snoop on the financial affairs of his new neighbours? or his old neighbours, for that matter?

With any luck, the last five years will have starkly taught us that there is no link between property price or property value, and the individual's financial situation. Someone who sells a house for €50k might take all of that in cash, whereas someone who sells for €1.2m might be €1m short of clearing his debts.

Simply knowing how much you sold your house for provides very little information to your neighbours, and has been pointed out it's a very small price to pay for a transparent property market immune to false hype from estate agents and developers.

Tonio 50

magicbastarder wrote: »

there may have been a spelling mistake. i've seen one house listed as sold in 'drumcindra'.

Looked everywhere...definitely not there

The outlaw

magicbastarder wrote: »

is the price you pay (in what would generally be considered by most people as a private transaction) a matter of public record?
i.e. why should mr. jones be given the ability to snoop on the financial affairs of his new neighbours? or his old neighbours, for that matter?

In most cases, anyone could have guessed what their neighbours house sold for (give or take around 15%). The point is no longer to have such a margin of error within the public domain. As mentioned here, privacy is the small price to pay for a transparent market (happens in other countries). I think it's a cultural thing here to try and be so secretive in Ireland at the expense of the public good. In fairness to you, a lot of the older generation would probably share your view.
Let's not forget prices could be published before, but only with the consent of both buyer and vendor and from auction sales (both small numbers).
I know the peak boom price (2006) on my road exactly because it was sold by auction. 2 recent sales on the road, from the new website, show a 67% reduction and 55% reduction respectively from that boom price.