Property Price Register

Dannyboy83

http://www.propertypriceregister.ie/

It's taken a lifetime to get here, but it's finally available at the url provided.

rodento

will be interesting to see if it affects property prices

Dannyboy83

rodento wrote: »

will be interesting to see if it affects property prices

Based on the research I've done so far, houses have been selling for about 20% below the asking prices in the areas I've been looking at - with the odd person getting absolutely screwed and paying twice the asking price!

thebman

Why doesn't it give proper details about the houses like number of bedrooms etc...?

Kind of defeats the purpose TBH. For all you know, one bedroom apartments are dragging down the price in an area.

Wow parents area can't find any results but in the area I rent houses are still over 120,000 which I wouldn't have expected given the size and quality of the housing.

Our landlord had it inspected to do it up for insulation etc.. to get a good BER rating for it and was told it wasn't going to be worth his while which is when we moved out.

NIMAN

Well, our house is in there.

Cookie_Monster

28/03/2012 €337,783.15

who pays such a specific amount?

Sleepy

A repossession? Or someone who said "I'll give you 350,000 if you cover X, Y or Z" and that's the amount left after paying for X,Y and Z?

Definitely an eye opener with regards to what houses are actually moving for in Clontarf. It's a shame they've done everything possible to prevent a price tracking website from comparing the sales prices with final asking prices on Daft etc.

While there's fairly little info available on the houses google maps and archives of Daft can fill in the blanks easily enough

Diddler1977

Cookie_Monster wrote: »

28/03/2012 €337,783.15

who pays such a specific amount?

Someone who buys their parents house? Gifted part of house price and then pays the rest?

Dannyboy83

Sleepy wrote: »

While there's fairly little info available on the houses google maps and archives of Daft can fill in the blanks easily enough

PropertyBee is useful: http://www.property-bee.com/

And Google cache

magicbastarder

is the price you pay (in what would generally be considered by most people as a private transaction) a matter of public record?
i.e. why should mr. jones be given the ability to snoop on the financial affairs of his new neighbours? or his old neighbours, for that matter?

Geuze

Cookie_Monster wrote: »

28/03/2012 €337,783.15

who pays such a specific amount?

If it's a new house, then that's the VAT-exclusive price.

Kieran6

Cookie_Monster wrote: »

28/03/2012 €337,783.15

who pays such a specific amount?

It maybe a new build. All new builds sold show prices without vat which is 13.5%.

Sleepy

magicbastarder wrote: »

is the price you pay (in what would generally be considered by most people as a private transaction) a matter of public record?
i.e. why should mr. jones be given the ability to snoop on the financial affairs of his new neighbours? or his old neighbours, for that matter?

The loss of that privacy is the cost of a transparent property market.

The benefits by far outweigh that cost in my opinion.

Black Smoke

Property is still damn expensive, considering the dire economy and the total lack of credit:o Where is the money coming from?

magicbastarder

banks are lending, despite what you've heard. i've received mortgage approval.

Zamboni

magicbastarder wrote: »

banks are lending, despite what you've heard. i've received mortgage approval.

One swallow doesn't make a summer

markpb

Black Smoke wrote: »

Property is still damn expensive, considering the dire economy and the total lack of credit:o Where is the money coming from?

I guess it depends on you and the people you know. No-one I know has taken a pay cut, lots of people (in IT) are moving to other jobs to get pay rises. Several people I know have bought or are in the process of buying houses. None of them would be well off, they just saved hard and have what the banks perceive to be solid jobs: public sector, education, nursing, accounting and IT.

I'm not saying that there isn't a downturn and people aren't being badly affected but I think people hear the negative news coverage and assume it applies to everyone which really isn't true.

Black Smoke

markpb wrote: »

I guess it depends on you and the people you know. No-one I know has taken a pay cut, lots of people (in IT) are moving to other jobs to get pay rises. Several people I know have bought or are in the process of buying houses. None of them would be well off, they just saved hard and have what the banks perceive to be solid jobs: public sector, education, nursing and IT.

I'm not saying that there isn't a downturn and people aren't being badly affected but I think people hear the negative news coverage and assume it applies to everyone which really isn't true.

Gosh, but you must live in a very protected place in society. You don't know "anybody", who has been negatively effected income wise by the crisis?

It's hard to walk down "any" street, in "any" town in Ireland without meeting people in this category and seeing the hard evidence before your eyes, in terms of closed shops, etc, etc,.

IT, is a good place to be, but not for everyone. The public sector is a good place to be, IF, you were on the inside, when CP was set up.

Now, the newbie public sector workers, get a much tougher deal, and are probably no more credit worthy than average Joe (excluding IT Joe), in the private sector.

magicbastarder

posted on a different thread - it purports to list all sales, but i have spotted an omission of a sale which i know went through, so the data is probably not fully comprehensive:

https://www.google.com/fusiontables/embedviz?viz=MAP&q=select+col1+from+1DPF-P9zWyqh9Cs1lshvOuIf8jOliDmOvNsdyu3w&h=false&lat=53.30462107510271&lng=-6.686837515624968&z=7&t=1&l=col1

magicbastarder

markpb wrote: »

I guess it depends on you and the people you know. No-one I know has taken a pay cut, lots of people (in IT) are moving to other jobs to get pay rises. Several people I know have bought or are in the process of buying houses. None of them would be well off, they just saved hard and have what the banks perceive to be solid jobs: public sector, education, nursing and IT.

it's also a lot due to constricted supply. there's far less available now; potentially partly due to people not being able to afford to sell their houses, and realise their negative equity in the process.

Dannyboy83

magicbastarder wrote: »

banks are lending, despite what you've heard. i've received mortgage approval.

You need to satisfy certain criteria:
A) Net to have an effective net disposable income of €1200
Need to save €1000 per month to prove you can handle stress tests etc. (rent can compose part of that €1000, it's just proving your ability to service a mortgage)
C) Need to save up your 8%-12% yourself (cannot be gifted/helicoptered to you)

Maysa07

Can't get pass the CAPTCHA search thingy on that site!?

Brussels Sprout

Maysa07 wrote: »

Can't get pass the CAPTCHA search thingy on that site!?

Try this instead. Courtesy of Road Runner in a different thread

ednwireland

i'm still trying to figure which house sold in my townland for €235000 :eek: nothing worth that round here, also one down the road which was advertised at €179000 actually sold for 120000 (4bed)

creedp

Black Smoke wrote: »

Gosh, but you must live in a very protected place in society. You don't know "anybody", who has been negatively effected income wise by the crisis?

It's hard to walk down "any" street, in "any" town in Ireland without meeting people in this category and seeing the hard evidence before your eyes, in terms of closed shops, etc, etc,.

IT, is a good place to be, but not for everyone. The public sector is a good place to be, IF, you were on the inside, when CP was set up.

Now, the newbie public sector workers, get a much tougher deal, and are probably no more credit worthy than average Joe (excluding IT Joe), in the private sector.

Why do you find that so difficult to understand? In my extended family circle the only people who have taken pay cuts over the last 4 years are the public servants (teacher, nurse, civil servant). The private sector employees have either had pay freezes or pay increases and the usual bonus arrangements in 2 cases. Yes one is in IT - a small IT support company - the others are in the pharmaceutical side, GP support staff, banking, dental surgery support staff, food manufacturing. The downside of course is that 3 are in construction related industries and 2 have lost their jobs, the 3rd is in engineering and although not as busy is keeping going. So although its popular to state that all are sufferring equally, that is not factually correct.

A big part of the consumer downturn must also relate to the reduction in unsustainable consumerism funded through easy credit during the boom. Now people are less likely to spend on credit and instead are saving larger parts of their income which results in a double whammy for the retail sector. The point being made that reductions in retail are not simply related to reducing incomes but to more careful money management.

Brussels Sprout

Any chance we could leave the public sector vs private sector stuff out of this thread?

Scofflaw

Brussels Sprout wrote: »

Any chance we could leave the public sector vs private sector stuff out of this thread?

Yes, that would be nice, and save us buying more penalty cards (thus exacerbating the retail decline, alas).

moderately,
Scofflaw

rod flanders

Ouch! Screw the Property Price Register for ruining my day. Going by the sale price of houses in my area, they are only 1/3 of what I paid 5 years ago.:(

maroondog

magicbastarder wrote: »

posted on a different thread - it purports to list all sales, but i have spotted an omission of a sale which i know went through, so the data is probably not fully comprehensive:

https://www.google.com/fusiontables/embedviz?viz=MAP&q=select+col1+from+1DPF-P9zWyqh9Cs1lshvOuIf8jOliDmOvNsdyu3w&h=false&lat=53.30462107510271&lng=-6.686837515624968&z=7&t=1&l=col1

Great see the Price Register go live, im looking at buying like lots of people and this is very useful. I see magicbastarder mention an omission, im not sure the register is capturing all sales either. My sister bought a house last year and its not on the register. Not sure why its not up, shes no idea why its missing either. I'm fairly sure its up the solicitor of the buyer to submit the details of a sale. I know this only my 2nd post here (people usually dubious about people with very few posts), usually just read the threads but just thought id mention this.

krd

maroondog wrote: »

My sister bought a house last year and its not on the register. Not sure why its not up, shes no idea why its missing either. I'm fairly sure its up the solicitor of the buyer to submit the details of a sale.

She should check that her solicitor fully processed the sale.

Scofflaw

Some preliminary fun with the figures - houses in Dublin (not flats):

Area|Sales|Average
Ballsbridge|34|€1,097,288.62
Rathmichael|3|€844,333.33
Sandycove|14|€746,932.64
Foxrock|40|€713,967.18
Rathmines|47|€708,011.85
Donnybrook|45|€696,565.82
Dartry|5|€692,400.00
Dalkey|47|€688,492.98
Rathgar|59|€641,510.15
Sandymount|40|€592,355.13
Ranelagh|41|€542,527.76
Mount Merrion|23|€537,215.22
Blackrock|116|€507,428.63
Monkstown|34|€478,589.26
Malahide|73|€474,464.38
Howth|20|€459,675.00
Glenageary|27|€454,018.52
Carrickmines|12|€445,961.75
Santry|32|€445,883.19
Clonskeagh|21|€441,604.76
Clontarf|83|€436,666.27
Terenure|49|€432,505.10
Kilmacud|3|€428,166.67
Killiney|50|€417,823.10
Portmarnock|20|€388,450.00
Goatstown|21|€380,547.62
Churchtown|40|€375,434.53
Sutton|41|€372,487.80
Ballyboughal|3|€368,333.33
Booterstown|21|€361,665.51
Deansgrange|3|€360,000.00
Castleknock|86|€357,402.27
Dun Laoghaire|54|€352,822.34
Dundrum|65|€352,505.38
Stillorgan|42|€346,284.52
Cabinteely|26|€345,052.86
Templeogue|30|€335,633.33
Harold's Cross|7|€334,857.14
Upper Kilmacud Road|6|€325,162.50
Knocklyon|20|€323,300.00
Rathfarnham|136|€313,523.28
Leopardstown|20|€306,395.48
Milltown|16|€301,902.38
Ballinteer|34|€296,739.71
Portobello|11|€295,454.55
Donabate|28|€291,756.80
Drumcondra|61|€291,551.07
Collins Avenue|4|€291,278.00
Raheny|55|€290,508.42
Sandyford|34|€282,851.03
Perrystown|6|€281,258.33
Shankill|50|€271,494.35
The Gasworks|3|€269,654.92
Harolds Cross|14|€256,821.43
Glasnevin|71|€255,686.62
Skerries|43|€254,735.84
Stepaside|23|€249,849.12
Griffith Avenue|4|€249,000.00
Rathcoole|30|€245,641.09
Loughlinstown|7|€243,142.86
Baldoyle|18|€240,187.50
Ballycullen|6|€237,133.33
Chapelizod|12|€236,500.00
Blackhorse Avenue|4|€234,750.00
Malahide Road|5|€232,582.72
Oldtown|4|€232,500.00
Glasthule|5|€227,800.00
Navan Road|27|€224,298.15
Fairview|19|€220,473.68
Marino|14|€215,571.43
South Circular Road|28|€214,274.46
Phibsborough|16|€214,189.06
Ongar|7|€213,084.00
Lucan|118|€212,853.98
Barrow Street|6|€211,434.51
Rush|10|€210,458.26
Kimmage|13|€210,346.15
Tyrrelstown|58|€210,188.89
Beaumont|20|€207,050.00
East Wall|9|€206,222.22
Firhouse|23|€205,660.87
Artane|63|€205,186.51
Killester|20|€204,172.50
Kilmainham|18|€204,109.73
Phibsboro|23|€198,652.17
Sallynoggin|16|€195,656.25
Bray|9|€194,444.44
Swords|100|€192,946.64
Irishtown|6|€190,666.67
Hanover Quay|3|€190,000.00
Glenamuck Road|5|€188,471.42
Clarehall|7|€184,142.86
Clonshaugh|5|€182,648.28
Palmerstown|27|€180,185.19
Donaghmede|18|€178,527.78
Parkgate Street|3|€178,500.00
Clonsilla|52|€174,936.54
Ashtown|6|€174,144.98
Whitehall|29|€173,479.31
North Circular Road|6|€173,333.33
Kinsealy|6|€173,166.67
Lusk|15|€172,833.33
Temple Bar|3|€171,333.33
Walkinstown|51|€169,373.04
Newcastle|8|€167,320.50
Clonee|29|€165,120.69
Kingswood|7|€164,285.71
Adamstown|41|€162,839.02
Upper Mayor Street|12|€161,286.61
Finglas|97|€160,042.49
Ringsend|17|€158,882.35
Ayrfield|5|€158,200.00
Donnycarney|9|€157,527.78
Ard Na Greine|6|€156,916.67
Portrane|3|€155,000.00
Citywest|3|€154,166.67
Castaheany|10|€153,000.00
Kilbarrack|7|€152,825.00
Hollystown|23|€150,891.12
Hansfield|15|€150,737.92
Saggart|14|€150,582.44
Coolock|16|€148,604.13
Coolmine|4|€147,500.00
Stoneybatter|13|€146,057.71
Kilnamanagh|4|€144,750.00
Ballybrack|16|€144,628.13
Cabra|49|€142,656.71
North Strand|4|€141,250.00
Tallaght|92|€140,978.42
Blanchardstown|37|€138,600.39
Carrickmines Manor|3|€136,196.67
Clondalkin|76|€135,160.86
Hampton Wood|10|€135,055.11
Finglas East|6|€133,583.33
Inchicore|34|€132,888.50
Rialto|21|€131,155.65
Balgriffin|5|€130,780.18
Meakstown|6|€129,000.00
Smithfield|5|€128,400.00
Drimnagh|35|€126,721.43
Arbour Hill|4|€123,826.50
Crumlin|71|€122,937.54
Finglas West|5|€119,541.87
Hartstown|3|€117,500.00
Balbriggan|42|€114,885.43
Bluebell|5|€97,500.00
Maryland|4|€96,333.75
Ballyfermot|49|€93,812.45
Mulhuddart|12|€88,175.36
Poppintree|4|€85,860.00
Ballymun|10|€74,054.78
The Coombe|4|€71,187.50
Darndale|5|€41,147.40

Top and bottom of the table are unsurprising.

krd

Dannyboy83 wrote: »

Based on the research I've done so far, houses have been selling for about 20% below the asking prices in the areas I've been looking at - with the odd person getting absolutely screwed and paying twice the asking price!

It's strange. Although, I've just looked at a few areas I'm familiar with, there isn't an even drop like 20%.

There are a few houses that have been on the market that I've been following for years. One house outside of Dublin, the Daft asking price was 90k. Sounds low?.....The sale price was 25k. That 25k house was 3 bedrooms, and in okay condition. If you rented it at €150 a month you'd clear the mortgage in under 5 years.

At the same time in the same area, there are houses selling for prices not too far off the boom time. Which goes to show, there are still plenty of eejits out there.

Looking at part of North Dublin I know well, there have been house sales way way way way down in price from the boom time.

The real difference the property register will make, will be to even out prices. You won't have two identical houses on the same estate going for radically different prices.

The other thing, that may strike you is there are sweet f'all transactions happening. In a town I was looking at, there are more than 200 properties on the morket - but there have only been about 20 transactions in two years. So, nothing is moving.

krd

Scofflaw wrote: »

Some preliminary fun with the figures - houses in Dublin (not flats):

I lived in Coolmine. It's a surprisingly nice area. The landlord had the house on the market - he wanted 1.2 Million for it. His asking price appears to have been off by a factor of ten.

Top and bottom of the table are unsurprising.

I'm surprised many prices are still so high. I would say the banks have been very careful to keep them hyped up. In reality, if banks have the cash, and a supply of eejits, they can set the prices. EVEN if there is no real market demand.

Maybe some people still had cash, or were creditworthy.

I also know someone who has a very ordinary house in Clontarf on the morket. They're looking for over a million for it.

ArraMusha

Finally a register of property prices!

I bet the auctioneers/estate agents, or whatever they're calling themselves are hiding today, seeing as their essential job requirement has been exposed....that requirement being telling lies while keeping a straight face while not breaking sentence.

The prices on this site are based on stamp duty paid so it should be relatively accurate. I know of another sale that is also not shown.

To add to this register it would be another great help for buyers (on their largest and most important life purchase) by coming up with a method of confirming offers/bids. This would remove the greatest unknown when buying a house....the fake bidder.
Perhaps something 'on the flavour of paypal' that could confirm a genuine offer....

:cool:

Tonio 50

Our house bought last August is not on the database. When I email them, the email bounces back!

Scortho

While we have a register at last (and should be grateful) its of little use if one is trying to figure out what the price/square footage should be for an area which is very handy when calculating if a house is of comparable value to the others on the street!

Black Smoke

Tonio 50 wrote: »

Our house bought last August is not on the database. When I email them, the email bounces back!

You need to call Joe Duffy! Get a good hour in, practicing how to moan properly before you call!!

maroondog

krd wrote: »

She should check that her solicitor fully processed the sale.

Sale was all done and dusted summer 2011. Its up to solicitor then to pass on the details of the sale I believe. Maybe the details havent been filled out/ passed to the body maintaining the Price Register or maybe it yet to be added to Register yet and is just a delay.

Its only first couple of days its gone live so may well have additional sales added re Sales gone thru already that are currently omitted. The Minister for Justice had made a commitment to have it up and running by end of September so to keep face they may of launched it without every sales transaction being included.

Laminations

Scofflaw wrote: »

Some preliminary fun with the figures - houses in Dublin (not flats):

Santry|32|€445,883.19

Top and bottom of the table are unsurprising.

Santry average is surprising. It's place on the table seems anomalously high

Also Phibsboro has two averages, odd that adding a 'ugh' to the place name boosts the average price!

Cookie_Monster

hmmm last valuation on my parents house 875k, one up the road sold for 320, some drop!

magicbastarder

Tonio 50 wrote: »

Our house bought last August is not on the database. When I email them, the email bounces back!

there may have been a spelling mistake. i've seen one house listed as sold in 'drumcindra'.

McTigs

So apparantly, this is all proof that property is back on the rise.

http://www.independent.ie/business/personal-finance/property-mortgages/new-property-register-shows-house-prices-are-on-the-rise-3247264.html

omahaid

Don't forget this

http://www.independent.ie/business/personal-finance/property-mortgages/best-time-to-buy-property-is-now-claims-noonan-3243829.html

"Best time to buy property is now, claims Noonan"

There is definitely more of a push lately from some parts to "restart" our bubble.

magicbastarder

there are places where property has been on the rise; and it's down to several factors. one is that there is a segment of the populace relatively untouched by the recession, albeit paying more in tax. there's a shortage of houses on the market, and people (especially couples in their 30s, i suspect - from having seen them in their droves at some house viewings) who want to get out of the rental market, and get into a 'family home'; and who are able to afford to, because of the 66% fall in house prices.
they're not going to worry unduly about calling the bottom, if they're buying a house they intend to live in for ten years. a 10% fall in the value of the house over the next year is less of a worry than having to continue to rent for the next year; paying €15,000 in rent versus looking at maybe a €25,000 fall in the value of the house they want to buy is not their biggest concern.

Scofflaw

magicbastarder wrote: »

there may have been a spelling mistake. i've seen one house listed as sold in 'drumcindra'.

The data is riddled with spelling mistakes...there are at least 8 different spellings of "Dublin", for example.

cordially,
Scofflaw

Dannyboy83

omahaid wrote: »

Don't forget this

http://www.independent.ie/business/personal-finance/property-mortgages/best-time-to-buy-property-is-now-claims-noonan-3243829.html

"Best time to buy property is now, claims Noonan"

There is definitely more of a push lately from some parts to "restart" our bubble.

Good/bad time to buy property statements are kind of redundant imo, since it's all relevant to the individual.

It's true that there is a gap opening up between urban and non-urban areas tho. That will only increase as fuel costs rise and services decline. So perhaps it's a good time in general if you plan to buy a house at the upper end of the market.
For a standard 3bed semi-d, it's not yet a good time. Property tax, water taxes, removal of Mortgage Interest Relief and 8 more austerity budgets will continue to drive down sale prices & are creating too much uncertainty - not just for borrowers, but for lenders too.

The best urban areas are stabilising or have stabilised, such as parts of Cork South Central, while other areas are far from stabilising (& I'm not referring to sh1tholes where nobody would want to live).

==

B]rant[/B

On a side note, I was listening to some academic on Newstalk waffling out his cakehole this morning about 'The Irish obsession with property'.

He recited this big fcuk off spiel about 19th century Ireland and all this complete cr@p which modern people have no knowledge of, while utterly ignoring all the real & present day issues why people actually want to buy property, such as the failure to legislate/regulate the residential rental market in Ireland.

It's like talking about the high rate of car ownership in Ireland and connecting it to the feudal system, while utterly ignoring the issues with present day public transport such as cost, reliability.

[/rant]

barryo79

Here is a version we knocked together with easier access (as well as some links to other online versions): http://www.opensolutions.ie/ppr/

Dannyboy83

barryo79 wrote: »

Here is a version we knocked together with easier access (as well as some links to other online versions): http://www.opensolutions.ie/ppr/

Sortable columns - something which is badly lacking from the official site.

Dr Galen

Dannyboy83 wrote: »

Sortable columns - something which is badly lacking from the official site.

You'd almost think that they didn't want to make it too easy for the average Joe to go hoking around in the data too much. Course, thats me just being cynical and a bit CT......isn't it...nah, surely not.

McTigs

Dannyboy83 wrote: »

Good/bad time to buy property statements are kind of redundant imo, since it's all relevant to the individual.

It's true that there is a gap opening up between urban and non-urban areas tho. That will only increase as fuel costs rise and services decline. So perhaps it's a good time in general if you plan to buy a house at the upper end of the market.
For a standard 3bed semi-d, it's not yet a good time. Property tax, water taxes, removal of Mortgage Interest Relief and 8 more austerity budgets will continue to drive down sale prices & are creating too much uncertainty - not just for borrowers, but for lenders too.

The best urban areas are stabilising or have stabilised, such as parts of Cork South Central, while other areas are far from stabilising (& I'm not referring to sh1tholes where nobody would want to live).

==

B]rant[/B

On a side note, I was listening to some academic on Newstalk waffling out his cakehole this morning about 'The Irish obsession with property'.

He recited this big fcuk off spiel about 19th century Ireland and all this complete cr@p which modern people have no knowledge of, while utterly ignoring all the real & present day issues why people actually want to buy property, such as the failure to legislate/regulate the residential rental market in Ireland.

It's like talking about the high rate of car ownership in Ireland and connecting it to the feudal system, while utterly ignoring the issues with present day public transport such as cost, reliability.

[/rant]

i wouldn't call it complete crap, the irish clearly, clearly, have a completely irrational obsession with property. I know perfectly intelligent people, with successful carears in various diciplines who completely lose all sense of reason and logic when it comes to property.
Pointing to 19th century ireland is probably not too far off the mark, we are conditioned from an early age to believe home ownership is a fundemental aspiration and that's something that has been handed down through generations (and 19th century ireland was only a few generations ago). Definitely folks of my parents generation regarded anyone renting after the age of thirty to be a "fly by night" or "not putting down roots", like not getting out a mortgage was an act of social deviation.

Thank god it's changing now, just a shame it's cost a generation of young people getting royally screwed for everyone to wake up a bit.

Dannyboy83

McTigs wrote: »

i wouldn't call it complete crap, the irish clearly, clearly, have a completely irrational obsession with property

Put it this way, my brother in law is German.
He never owned a house and never aspired to own a house.
He was perfectly happy to rent for life in Germany. Their system facilitates it.

During the Pyramid years when he lived here, he was screaming stop - telling everyone they were in a property bubble but couldn't see it. Everyone thought he was just 'being German' and against property ownership.
But he bought a house in the UK recently...

The Irish were historically highly conformist, now heavily non-conformist, huge social progression in recent years.
But the trend persists among modern Irish in spite of all this social upheavel.

Whenever there is a widespread trend (note that home ownership among non-Irish is also on the increase), I think that is usually a pretty good indicator of a reaction, not necessarily a symptom of preconceived idea.