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Walking home alone at night
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LeeHoffmann wrote: »That´s your opinion. It´s up to individual women to choose how cautious they want to be. They are the ones that have to live their lives after all. I wouldn´t dream of telling you what to do to ensure your safety. I can bring up relevant data and offer concern and advice, but I would respect your right to make that call for yourself.
And I respect your advice too. I only offered a view and advice. I never said anyone was bad or wrong to not accept it. I would offer the advice, and if it's not taken, so be it. But I would still offer the advice.0 -
when you say "should", it crosses the line of advice.
go post that in tgc, they´ll eat you alive :pac:Perentage wise it's of no comparison. For every man attacked/raped/murdered I bet there are many many many many more women who suffer that.0 -
Really? Perentage wise it's of no comparison. For every man attacked/raped/murdered I bet there are many many many many more women who suffer that.
Most likely due to under reporting which cab be caused by some of the rhetoric and attitudes you yourself have espoused in this thread.
And if there are that many many many many women who are being sexually assaulted why aren't those attacks taken more seriously?0 -
And if there are that many many many many women who are being sexually assaulted why aren't those attacks taken more seriously?
A matter for society in general.
As for the percentages. Well, if you really think there is a valid comparison or similar numbers involved with male and females then I aint gonna' try and change your mind there.
In a nutshell: Men rape/sexually assault women far more than they rape/sexually assault men.0 -
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I've read through the entire thread so far and can understand every person's varying viewpoints and where they're coming from.
I do think the sort of 'backlash' against walshb, suggesting he's being OTT and backward in his thinking, etc., has been a bit uncalled for though. I honestly don't think he meant that a woman should stay indoors at night all the time, never walk anywhere alone at night, always have a man to accompany them (Saudi Arabia-style :rolleyes:) whenever they go out, etc.
Obviously there are many, many women who don't have the option of calling on a family member or friend(s) to either accompany them at night or pick them up. That's the reality. No-one is saying that women should not be free to go wherever they want at whatever time they like. That would be ridiculous.
But, speaking from a man's perspective, if I saw a woman walking on her own in a quiet area at night Vs. a man doing the exact same thing, I would instantly view the woman as being more vulnerable. It isn't because I'm a sexist pr!ck and believe that all women are weak and powerless (sure look at the likes of Dame Kelly Holmes and Ellen MacArthur). I'm not sure where it comes from, tbh, but my instinctive reaction is that a woman is more vulnerable than a man and, thus, an 'easier' target. This, despite the possibility that the woman may very well be an expert in martial arts.
Yet, a potential attacker is hardly going to know simply by looking at a woman that she's a martial arts expert and could floor him no bother. It's just that, based on shallow surface appearances alone, the woman will still be viewed as more vulnerable. I know it's ridiculous to be saying this in the 21st century, but I know a few of my male friends (who are all law-abiding, decent guys) would share the same view as myself, and it isn't meant to be derogatory at all.
The Jill Meagher case has really made me think about my sisters' safety and that of a female cousin of mine, who I know has walked through all kinds of dimly-lit and dodgy areas at all hours in the past. She has had a few negative encounters though. A few years ago, she was walking through a suburban area in Cork (I think it was College Road, near UCC) on a bright, sunny June evening, when she encountered a man who exposed himself to her. She reacted quickly enough to cross the road and call the cops straightaway though.
The thing that someone said about trusting your instincts can really pay off in potentially dangerous situations, because my cousin said that, before she encountered that creep, she had had a really bad, ominous feeling beforehand that something bad was going to happen the further she walked along that road. But, seeing that it was a bright evening in a traditionally 'safe' area, she told herself she was just being irrational and disregarded the feeling.
She said she even remembered being alarmed at how she felt a profound sense of relief when she saw two women emerge from a building before the incident happened (as if it was comforting to have fellow females around her), but still she brushed it aside and walked on, when she could have turned around and taken an alternative route instead. I say you should always follow your instincts.
That same cousin, in recent years, has taken to carrying a 250db personal alarm (it looks like a girly keyring, tbh) in her handbag and, on occasion, she carries either a switchblade, a Stanley knife or a typical handgun-sized air rifle that shoots plastic pellets, as well. Just as precautions and, AFAIK, she's never had to use them.
Now, many people have laughed at her (and I admit that I found it a little amusing to begin with, too) for carrying those items but, after what happened to Jill Meagher, I think she's wise to be prepared. She's kind of small and slight in build anyway (I've actually seen gusts of wind cause her to sway), so she's better off. Better safe than sorry, even if people regard you as being too cautious. I say prepare for the worst and hope for the best simultaneously.
I think every woman should at least invest in a personal alarm, tbh. You may never even have to use it, but it's always handy to have should the worst case scenario occur. The racket from the alarm will distract an attacker long enough to allow you to make a run for it, and possibly deter him altogether, too.
So, to summarise: arm yourself suitably, always be vigilant, follow your instincts while using common sense and go live your life freely and happily.0 -
I am glad you got the gist of my posts. Not at all saying that a woman should sit in and never leave the house unless a chaperone is there.
I as a man am the same as yourself as regards seeing a girl alone at night and walking thru a quiet area. I become alert and I do feel that it's not something I would at all encourage. A man doing it? Well, no, I don't get the same feeling when I see it. That is just human nature. I am well aware that both could well suffer an attack, but for the woman, in general, the chances of a successful defense is lessened should it be a male attacker.
Also, the kind of attacks differ. Women are much more likely to be sexually targeted by men.
As for the whole statistics etc. Nobody is denying that most of the time a woman who decides to walk home alone at night makes it safely home.
Do women need to modify their behaviour? In this world, yes. Perfect world? No. Unfortunately we have living in our midst men who sexually attack women. Not at all saying that it's rampant. I am saying that it exists. And if it exists, why as a woman would you put yourself in a position of vulnerability, assuming that you have safer options? Sure, point to all the stats etc, but how is any woman to know that "this walk home" will also be the safe one?0 -
Funny story. I met my ex-girlfriend walking home. I approached her.
It was around New Years. I had just come out of the club stinking drunk. She had just finished work and was stone cold sobre and its about an hours walk from town to my house.
So there we were on opposite sides of the footpath late at night nobody else nearby. Both of us all wrapped up in our winter gear and me eating a kebab. I'm not much of a guy to approach women with huge confidence but that night I crossed the road and my opener was something like "Don't worry I'm not going to drag you into a bush but there are a lot of weirdos in this town who would so I'm escorting you home"
She was a little taken back and nervous at first. I then proceeded to give her diet tips, not that she needed it, well not diet tips exactly but general health food advice and the type of stuff you should eat to stay lean, rich coming from a guy eating a kebab. I basically said everything you shouldn't say. She spent most of the walk laughing at me and saying oh my god. When we got to her apartment I asked could I come up for a bowl of rice krispies and warm milk which she told she liked. I was told to buzz off but we did exchange numbers.
The following weekend we went for a drink and were together for two years. She was great and we are still friends. I miss her still.0 -
As for the police force. Yes, if there were coppers on every corner at night time watching and policing the streets then yes, a woman walking home alone at night should be no problem. That is not the case. So, we then run the risk.0
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Do you guys really not grasp the major fact that has been stated and restated so many times in this thread?
We (women) THINK ABOUT THIS SHÍT ALL THE TIME. WE HAVE DONE SINCE WE WERE GIRLS.
Dropping in to tell us that we really should be more careful and that (as guys) you feel uncomfortable when you see a woman walking by herself at night is about as patronising as (to make an analogy)
If say there was a racially-motivated attack on a black person and there was a thread where black people were discussing what had happened and their own previous experiences of dealing with racist attacks/issues and then suddenly a white person arrives in the thread and starts giving instruction left and right to all the black people on how they think everyone else in the thread should behave to avoid being the victim of a racist assault.
It's assuming a position of authority when in fact you're speaking from a position of ignorance and it's really irritating, no matter how well-intentioned.0 -
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Your Airbag wrote: »Funny story. I met my ex-girlfriend walking home. I approached her.
It was around New Years. I had just come out of the club stinking drunk. She had just finished work and was stone cold sobre and its about an hours walk from town to my house.
So there we were on opposite sides of the footpath late at night nobody else nearby. Both of us all wrapped up in our winter gear and me eating a kebab. I'm not much of a guy to approach women with huge confidence but that night I crossed the road and my opener was something like "Don't worry I'm not going to drag you into a bush but there are a lot of weirdos in this town who would so I'm escorting you home"
She was a little taken back and nervous at first. I then proceeded to give her diet tips, not that she needed it, well not diet tips exactly but general health food advice and the type of stuff you should eat to stay lean, rich coming from a guy eating a kebab. I basically said everything you shouldn't say. She spent most of the walk laughing at me and saying oh my god. When we got to her apartment I asked could I come up for a bowl of rice krispies and warm milk which she told she liked. I was told to buzz off but we did exchange numbers.
The following weekend we went for a drink and were together for two years. She was great and we are still friends. I miss her still.
That is a great and happy story. I am sure it has happened to many men and women too.
And, unfortunately, many women have met their killers in a similar fashion. Alone, at night, detached from a group, and selected by a man.0 -
Do you guys really not grasp the major fact that has been stated and restated so many times in this thread?
We (women) THINK ABOUT THIS SHÍT ALL THE TIME. WE HAVE DONE SINCE WE WERE GIRLS.
Dropping in to tell us that we really should be more careful and that (as guys) you feel uncomfortable when you see a woman walking by herself at night is about as patronising as (to make an analogy)
If say there was a racially-motivated attack on a black person and there was a thread where black people were discussing what had happened and their own previous experiences of dealing with racist attacks/issues and then suddenly a white person arrives in the thread and starts giving instruction left and right to all the black people on how they think everyone else in the thread should behave to avoid being the victim of a racist assault.
It's assuming a position of authority when in fact you're speaking from a position of ignorance and it's really irritating, no matter how well-intentioned.
Who said that you girls didn't think about this all the time?
And, if you do think about it all the time, then you agree with my overall point that it's not something that should be done if there are any other "safer options." No?0 -
MrMojoRisin wrote: »That same cousin, in recent years, has taken to carrying a 250db personal alarm (it looks like a girly keyring, tbh) in her handbag and, on occasion, she carries either a switchblade, a Stanley knife or a typical handgun-sized air rifle that shoots plastic pellets, as well. Just as precautions and, AFAIK, she's never had to use them.
Now, many people have laughed at her (and I admit that I found it a little amusing to begin with, too) for carrying those items but, after what happened to Jill Meagher, I think she's wise to be prepared.
Good post, but your cousin is going around with a switchblade, a Stanley knife and an air-rifle handgun in her handbag? Does she want to head for a stint in Mountjoy?
Aside from that, it is extremely unlikely that she would ever use them on an attacker - but far, far more likely that she would have those weapons used on her instead.
A personal alarm is going be worth carrying - as for the others - I would seriously discourage her from continuing to carry them.0 -
Who said that you girls didn't think about this all the time?
And, if you do think about it all the time, then you agree with my overall point that it's not something that should be done if there are any other "safer options." No?
No, because as adult people (not girls btw) a lot of us have checked the statistics and realised that living in a constant state of fear in the face of a very unlikely attack occurring makes about as much sense as spending as little time as possible outdoors in case we get conked on the head by a meteorite.
After all, I could get beaned by a spacerock so why not reduce the risk by running to and from the house to the car"just to be safe"?0 -
I as a man am the same as yourself as regards seeing a girl alone at night and walking thru a quiet area. I become alert and I do feel that it's not something I would at all encourage. A man doing it? Well, no, I don't get the same feeling when I see it. That is just human nature. I am well aware that both could well suffer an attack, but for the woman, in general, the chances of a successful defense is lessened should it be a male attacker.
It's something that's hard to explain to someone, unless they're a man as well. I was trying to recall incidents where a woman has successfully fought off a male attacker in the past and, try as I might, I can't seem to think of any. Unless someone can enlighten me? BTW, I'm not trying to be a smartarse.
I also can't think of any stories male friends have told me about them walking along somewhere at night and being approached by dodgy men.Also, the kind of attacks differ. Women are much more likely to be sexually targeted by men.
As unfortunate and clearly unacceptable as it is, it's true. I never hear about men being targeted by male sexual predators in this country. Not saying it has never, or doesn't, happen, but it's significantly less common. And I never hear about women attempting to sexually assault men on some street/road in the middle of the night.As for the whole statistics etc. Nobody is denying that most of the time a woman who decides to walk home alone at night makes it safely home.
Yeah, to be fair, all three of my sisters have managed to make it home safely at night over the years. Thank God. What happened to Jill Meagher obviously will not happen to every single woman who chooses to walk home alone at night, but I still say it's better to prepare for the worst and hope for the best regardless.Do women need to modify their behaviour? In this world, yes. Perfect world? No. Unfortunately we have living in our midst men who sexually attack women. Not at all saying that it's rampant. I am saying that it exists. And if it exists, why as a woman would you put yourself in a position of vulnerability, assuming that you have safer options? Sure, point to all the stats etc, but how is any woman to know that "this walk home" will also be the safe one?
Agreed. Knowing what you know, thanks to the abundance of information out there and your acknowledgement of possible consequences of certain actions, i.e. walking home alone at night, don't ever allow yourself to be vulnerable in situations like that. Still go out and have a bit of craic, but always be prepared for any crap that could happen.
And so what if you have to wake up a friend or a family member in the dead of night to come and pick you up? If they really care about you, that shouldn't be a huge inconvenience. Better to drop you home to the safety of your house than to hear the following day that you've gone missing, were abducted, etc. Feck that.0 -
If something happens it happens. Be safe but no point worrying about it. Females are lucky as they are far less likely to be killed in a random attack.0
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Who said that you girls didn't think about this all the time?
And, if you do think about it all the time, then you agree with my overall point that it's not something that should be done if there are any other "safer options." No?
walshb out of interest would you recommend that women travel via bus / public transport where possible, because it is statistically much safer than travelling by car?0 -
No, because as adult people (not girls btw) a lot of us have checked the statistics and realised that living in a constant state of fear in the face of a very unlikely attack occurring makes about as much sense as spending as little time as possible outdoors in case we get conked on the head by a meteorite.
After all, I could get beaned by a spacerock so why not reduce the risk by running to and from the house to the car"just to be safe"?
Yes, I am sure the statistics back you up. I agree, there. Still does not take away from the fact that the risk is always there for a lone woman walking home at night in a quiet area.
Following your logic: You would have no problem saying to your sister or daughter, for example, that if you get stuck late just walk home. The statistics show that your chances of being sexually attacked or raped etc are very low. You wouldn't see too much issue with this advice?
It's not quite the same as someone driving their car or walking around wondering if ligtning will strike them. There are risks in so many endeavours we undertake. Sure, we cannot eliminate all the risk, but speaking about the car. Tyres a little low on air? I would rather pump them up a bit before heading out.0 -
walshb out of interest would you recommend that women travel via bus / public transport where possible, because it is statistically much safer than travelling by car?
Like in my other post, we as humans run risks in so many endeavours. So many. I really don't see it as a valid analogy for the purpose of this thread.
Hey, start a thread about safety in moving vehicles and we can entertain it.
I am a bad flyer because I fear crashing. Now, statistically I am more likely to die in a car crash, but at least with that it's pretty quick. I am not waiting to die. And, there are thousand and thousands more cars on opur roads that planes in the sky. Akso, in a car I can pull over if a risk presents itself. Take a nap, pump the tyre up, or juts chill out. In a plane? Waiting for impact!0 -
MrMojoRisin wrote: »And so what if you have to wake up a friend or a family member in the dead of night to come and pick you up? If they really care about you, that shouldn't be a huge inconvenience. Better to drop you home to the safety of your house than to hear the following day that you've gone missing, were abducted, etc. Feck that.
Something I always tell my family. Never ever hesitate to call me to collect you if stuck in town etc. I would consider it part of being in a family. That applies to other members of my family too. I am not available, others are. I mean if you cannot do this for your loved ones (due to not in the mood, tired, or don't give a damn) then what use are you?
My wife will never ever be left to walk home on her own if I am here. I wouldn't allow her to do it even if she inisted. I'd go out and look for her. That may sound harsh, but I won't run that risk (as small as the statistics tell us it is) for her. But she completely understands and agrees with me as regards the issue.0 -
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Yes, I am sure the statistics back you up. I agree, there. Still does not take away from the fact that the risk is always there for a lone woman walking home at night in a quiet area.
Following your logic: You would have no problem saying to your sister or daughter, for example, that if you get stuck late just walk home. The statistics show that your chances of being sexually attacked or raped etc are very low. You wouldn't see too much issue with this advice?
It's not quite the same as someone driving their car or walking around wondering if ligtning will strike them. There are risks in so many endeavours we undertake. Sure, we cannot eliminate all the risk, but sopeakingb about the car. Tyres a little low on air? I would rather pump them up a bit before heading out.
But the risk of being assaulted is significantly higher for a man walking home alone - he may not be raped but he could well have his head kicked in.
Would you be on standby to drive your brothers/sons home from night out rather than have them walk a half-mile home?
If you see young men walking home alone at night, do you feel annoyed with them for being so irresponsible?
Do you feel the need to instruct other men about the risks of walking home alone late at night?I wouldn't allow her to do it even if she inisted.
That's really demeaning of you. She's an adult; allow her the dignity of making her own decisions.0 -
MrMojoRisin wrote: »It's something that's hard to explain to someone, unless they're a man as well. I was trying to recall incidents where a woman has successfully fought off a male attacker in the past and, try as I might, I can't seem to think of any. Unless someone can enlighten me? BTW, I'm not trying to be a smartarse.
I have twice, once when I was 16 and on my home from my part time job, I was about 5 mins from my front door, there was two of them and I still have have a scar on my left hand from where I punched the first one so hard, it broke his nose. Seeing the blood the second one backed off and I ran home.
The second time I was 22 and away in college. He was a creep who had a gf and was one of the popular lads. He followed from a house party were I had refused to help him cheat on his gf, determined to 'have me'. I left him on the ground, clutching his groin.
Under Brehon law irish women had the right to walk the length and breath of the country with out being molested by word or deed. I have has much right to go were I want, when I want and to take what precautions I think I need as any man.
Women get assaulted all the time and manage to fend for themselves, to get away, and fend off attackers. Be it the stranger in a pub who grabs at us or some other arsehole. We don't report it for a whole heap of reasons, social fall out, garda not taking it seriously how messed up the court system is in this country.0 -
But the risk of being assaulted is significantly higher for a man walking home alone - he may not be raped but he could well have his head kicked in.
Would you be on standby to drive your brothers/sons home from night out rather than have them walk a half-mile home?
If you see young men walking home alone at night, do you feel annoyed with them for being so irresponsible?
Do you feel the need to instruct other men about the risks of walking home alone late at night?
That's really demeaning of you. She's an adult; allow her the dignity of making her own decisions.
Regards my wife: I edited my post. See the edit.
Why keep going back to men and statistics? Isn't the thread about women alone at night making their way home? We all agree that men too are at risk, a different kind of risk as well.
But, seeing as you ask, I would also discourage my father or brother from taking the walk home. Call me: I am there to collect you at any time.
BTW, you never answered my question as regards your daughter or sister.0 -
Good post, but your cousin is going around with a switchblade, a Stanley knife and an air-rifle handgun in her handbag? Does she want to head for a stint in Mountjoy?
She doesn't carry all three at once. I'm not in any position to tell her what to carry and what not to carry, but I imagine that if she used any of those in self-defense (which is the underlying purpose behind carrying those), she'd avoid a stay in Mountjoy.
Even if carrying those weapons simply give her peace of mind and enable her to venture out and about alone at night when she has to, it can't be a bad thing at all, IMO.Aside from that, it is extremely unlikely that she would ever use them on an attacker - but far, far more likely that she would have those weapons used on her instead.
She said that her first ports of call when faced with a bothersome bloke are to not engage with him and put some distance between herself and him. If that failed, she'd scream and use the alarm. I think the weapons are purely a last resort only.
Yeah, it's very possible that those items could be used against her, but I would imagine that that would be the case only if she wasn't quick enough to use them. It's hard to say for sure.A personal alarm is going be worth carrying - as for the others - I would seriously discourage her from continuing to carry them.
As I said, I'm not in a position to tell her what to do, but I could suggest it to her and allow her to make up her own mind.
I agree that the personal alarm is invaluable. No harm in carrying one of those.0 -
Regards my wife: I edited my post. See the edit.
Why keep going back to men and statistics? Isn't the thread about women alone at night making their way home?
But, seeing as you ask, I would also discourage my father or brother from taking the walk home. Call me: I am there to collect you at any time.
I'm not seeing how your edit changed anything? You still say you'd disregard what your wife said because you know better apparently. I keep going back to statistics because they support the view that men are much more at risk of being assaulted while walking alone at night than women are, and yet women are the only ones constantly being told how to modify their behaviour to avoid being assaulted. I trust statistical data over gut-instinct because, well, I think it's pretty obvious why. One is data, the other is imagination crossed with urban legends.
When was the last time you heard a widespread demand for young men to be more careful, to always get a taxi, to take care or they might become victims in the aftermath of a young man being seriously assaulted on the street?
It just doesn't happen.
But as soon as a woman is attacked we suddenly get this tsunami of unhelpful "advice" on preventing ourselves from being future victims.0 -
BOjangles - yes, men are statistically more likely to be assaulted while walking alone at night, but sexually assaulted? No. Sadly, the latter is more likely to happen to women. That's what this is about.0
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I'm not seeing how your edit changed anything? You still say you'd disregard what your wife said because you know better apparently. I keep going back to statistics because they support the view that men are much more at risk of being assaulted while walking alone at night than women are, and yet women are the only ones constantly being told how to modify their behaviour to avoid being assaulted. I trust statistical data over gut-instinct because, well, I think it's pretty obvious why. One is data, the other is imagination crossed with urban legends.
When was the last time you heard a widespread demand for young men to be more careful, to always get a taxi, to take care or they might become victims in the aftermath of a young man being seriously assaulted on the street?
It just doesn't happen.
But as soon as a woman is attacked we suddenly get this tsunami of unhelpful "advice" on preventing ourselves from being future victims.
My edit is defining. I cannot stop her walking home, or stop her tellling me that she does not need a pick up, but by god I would be in the car looking for her if she chose to take that risk. And if I spotted her and she refused to take my lift then I guess we have some serious problems. See. Anyway, as I said, my wife completely agrees with me, as do others, men and women.
As for the young men that you keep coming back too. If there is no widespread message, there should be. Men too need to modify their behaviour when out and about at night. Did I say otherwise?
Example: Late night chippers and taxi ranks are notorious for violence. Plent of scope for men to modify their behaviour too.
Start that thread if you like and I will state that.0 -
I'd rather get raped than be left with brain damage.MrMojoRisin wrote: »BOjangles - yes, men are statistically more likely to be assaulted while walking alone at night, but sexually assaulted? No. Sadly, the latter is more likely to happen to women. That's what this is about.0 -
MrMojoRisin wrote: »BOjangles - yes, men are statistically more likely to be assaulted while walking alone at night, but sexually assaulted? No. Sadly, the latter is more likely to happen to women. That's what this is about.
The thread title is "Walking home alone at night" - nothing specific to sexual assault there.
Also sexual assault is an appalling crime that no-one should ever be a victim of, but so is permanent brain damage caused by an unprovoked attack in the street.
The latter is more likely to occur than the former and yet when the first crime occurs you'll always get a lot of discussion of how women can prevent this happening, when the latter happens (usually to a young man) it's just something that happens, no call for potential victims to alter their behaviour.0 -
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The thread title is "Walking home alone at night" - nothing specific to sexual assault there.
I know the name of the thread, but the thread was prompted by the Jill Meagher case (where she was raped and murdered). Hence, the link to sexual assault.Also sexual assault is an appalling crime that no-one should ever be a victim of, but so is permanent brain damage caused by an unprovoked attack in the street.
They're both as bad as each other. There's no denying that. Remember the Lavinia Kerwick case from back in the '90s? She was raped by her then-boyfriend and was left so traumatised by the experience, she went on to develop anorexia, which nearly took her life. Probably as debilitating as suffering from brain damage but, as I said, both types of attack are still as bad as each other.The latter is more likely to occur than the former and yet when the first crime occurs you'll always get a lot of discussion of how women can prevent this happening, when the latter happens (usually to a young man) it's just something that happens, no call for potential victims to alter their behaviour.
That is true. I'm not sure why that is, tbh. As regards young men being attacked unprovoked and suffering subsequent brain damage, maybe there should be just as much as the same warnings and preventative advice wheeled out to young men as there are to young women already.
Drinking in moderation might be a good start, along with young men being accompanied by friends, if possible, and what have you.0
This discussion has been closed.
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