Training Plan for first season racing

Slo_Rida · 04-12-2012 9:59am

Opera_Leonardo wrote: »

Good to hear you're back in the game Slo. I got an old turbo myself during the week, had a few sessions so far. I'm finding 30/40 min interval workouts tight going. Those yoks are a right sweatbox.

When does your race season start?

Yeah most people insist on a fan, my garage has a door on the front as well as a small one at the back and in this weather it's plenty cool! Intervals keep it more interesting. I just did an hour steady and I nearly fainted with boredom...I'll mix it up a bit tomorrow night with some high cadence intervals to break the monotony.
I'd say the cycling pursuits cup in Broadford Co Limerick will be my first outing. It's quite hilly though apparently and climbing isn't my forte so I'll probably just use it as a way of getting into the racing scene. The visit Nenagh classic and Ras Limnuigh should be a bit more enjoyable hopefully. What about you? When are you kicking off?
Slo

colm_gti · 04-12-2012 12:14pm

Slo_Rida wrote: »

I'd say the cycling pursuits cup in Broadford Co Limerick will be my first outing. It's quite hilly though apparently and climbing isn't my forte so I'll probably just use it as a way of getting into the racing scene. The visit Nenagh classic and Ras Limnuigh should be a bit more enjoyable hopefully. What about you? When are you kicking off?
Slo

Do you plan to train with a club or do some faster paced group rides before then?

ratracer · 04-12-2012 12:15pm

I still can't make up my mind on whether I'll commit to racing next season. I do want to, and at the moment I'm getting in one turbo session and one spin of 60-90 km per week. I know it's gonna get intermittent between now and Crimbo but hopefully it'll stay regular. I sometimes want to go racing, but then I think will I just stick to the sportives?? I think I'll wait til January to decide but just try and keep pedalling for now.

Slo_Rida · 04-12-2012 1:04pm

colm_gti wrote: »

Do you plan to train with a club or do some faster paced group rides before then?

Hell yeah! I've done a few group spins and would be doing one every weekend only I've had a mental November. I'll be out for a group spin Saturday morning and I'm hoping to get a feel for where I am compared to other racers then. 90~100km is the plan.
In January, I plan to start the harder/faster spins. My aim is to get my threshold (lungs and heart) up with high intensity sessions. I'll be trying to replicate breaks and bridging gaps in training because long term, that is how I want to race - either initiate breaks or getting into breaks. I know that it will take a lot of racing, probably all next season to learn how to do it and become fit enough to do it. And I'm aware that it might sound stupid to say it outright but that is what I love to see when I'm watching a race so that is how I want to play the game. I think Mark Cavendish is an outstanding cyclist but I think the guys who go out in a break and work their b@lls off all day are more interesting/respectable somehow. I'd rather blow up trying to stay away than finish nowhere in a group sprint having hidden all day.
How's your winter going? Have you done much racing?

Slo_Rida · 04-12-2012 1:09pm

ratracer wrote: »

I still can't make up my mind on whether I'll commit to racing next season. I do want to, and at the moment I'm getting in one turbo session and one spin of 60-90 km per week. I know it's gonna get intermittent between now and Crimbo but hopefully it'll stay regular. I sometimes want to go racing, but then I think will I just stick to the sportives?? I think I'll wait til January to decide but just try and keep pedalling for now.

If I recall, you do a lot or all of your training out on your own. If so, a 60-90km spin is a big effort and almost unecessary at this time of year if you are going to do sportives. Obviously no excercise is wasted but if you ask me, another turbo session during the week and you'd be well on your way to base building for racing next year. If you could get going with a club in January you'd get a feel for where you are in terms of race fitness and then you'd never know...you could excell in race conditions. You'd have to decide for sure that you want it though.

colm_gti · 04-12-2012 1:28pm

Slo_Rida wrote: »

Hell yeah! I've done a few group spins and would be doing one every weekend only I've had a mental November. I'll be out for a group spin Saturday morning and I'm hoping to get a feel for where I am compared to other racers then. 90~100km is the plan.
In January, I plan to start the harder/faster spins. My aim is to get my threshold (lungs and heart) up with high intensity sessions. I'll be trying to replicate breaks and bridging gaps in training because long term, that is how I want to race - either initiate breaks or getting into breaks. I know that it will take a lot of racing, probably all next season to learn how to do it and become fit enough to do it. And I'm aware that it might sound stupid to say it outright but that is what I love to see when I'm watching a race so that is how I want to play the game. I think Mark Cavendish is an outstanding cyclist but I think the guys who go out in a break and work their b@lls off all day are more interesting/respectable somehow. I'd rather blow up trying to stay away than finish nowhere in a group sprint having hidden all day.
How's your winter going? Have you done much racing?

Ah cool, sometimes being able to ride comfortably in a group (and being able to use a big group to your advantage) is more important than your level of fitness. The last thing you want is to cause an accident because you're not used to being surrounded in a big group

I picked up cycling in March, cycled mostly on weekends with a 10km round trip commute 5 days a week, no real direction to training, done a sportive, loved it, joined a racing club, got a competition licence in July and done pretty much every open race between then and the intervarsity race, including the Charleville 2 day stage race.

Being honest, despite my lack of placings and points, I was beginning to find A4 racing too comfortable. I blame my lack of placings on being placed badly for the final sprint, not being a great sprinter, and not willing to risk injury for a top spot. I also blame it on not playing to my strengths. I always took my turn at the front, chased down breaks and sat up for the sprint, whereas I know (not being big headed) that I have a strong TT ability and should have let a break go, bridged across and rode with them. It's all well and good saying what way you'd like to race, but that may not suit you, for all you know you could be fairly explosive and a good sprinter, but it will take you a few races to figure that out. What I'm trying to say, is that you don't need to obsess over training for A4, you'll probably start out slow, but come the middle of the season you'll be in flying form, and you can't really direct your training if you don't know your strengths and weaknesses from a racing perspective. I definitely learned a huge amount about racing and how to train in the last few months, and continue to learn. I think the best thing you could do is race this coming season with low expectations, if you win some races that's fantastic, but use it as a learning experience, take note of how you compared to others on each style of course, learn your strengths and weaknesses so you'll know what to work on for the following year.

Winter training....I keep it fairly quiet, but I'm doing a bit of strength training in the gym, along with a 60km round trip commute 2-3 days a week and a long spin with the club at the weekend. Everything on the bike at the minute is low intensity (mostly zone 2, some zone 3), all on a steel singlespeed bike, fully loaded with mudguards. I plan to take Christmas week as a recovery week, then increasing the intensity, but decreasing the volume come January, but by then it'll all be on the bike training with no gym work. Just to point out, I've applied to upgrade to A3, so am training with that in mind, what I'm doing would probably be too much, even for A3....

Sorry for my long post, hope it helps a bit with your training

Slo_Rida · 04-12-2012 2:59pm

I totally get your point re waiting to see what my strengths are...never thought of it like that. And funny enough, I played rugby for years and the only genuine strength I had was explosive power and a great sprint fast twitch muscle fibres or whatever they say. I don't think it will transfer to the wheels like that though!!!
The bottom line for me is I want to enter some races next year and waste as little time as possible getting into it. I know there will be an element of minding myself and staying fresh for the finish but I like you would prefer to be fairly honest and do my turn.

By the sounds of things, you should be helping breaks and not chasing them down.......

colm_gti · 04-12-2012 3:06pm

Slo_Rida wrote: »

I totally get your point re waiting to see what my strengths are...never thought of it like that. And funny enough, I played rugby for years and the only genuine strength I had was explosive power and a great sprint fast twitch muscle fibres or whatever they say. I don't think it will transfer to the wheels like that though!!!
The bottom line for me is I want to enter some races next year and waste as little time as possible getting into it. I know there will be an element of minding myself and staying fresh for the finish but I like you would prefer to be fairly honest and do my turn.

By the sounds of things, you should be helping breaks and not chasing them down.......

Came from a rugby background myself, although sprinting wasn't my forte as a second row, my muscular endurance and recovery was excellent and didn't feel like the wind had been knocked out of me after every ruck

It transfers pretty directly to the bike, fast twitch fibres are fast twitch fibres, regardless of their application.

Don't worry about being honest and doing your turn at the front, you'll find that there are 4 or 5 lads in every race that will do their turns at the front, and everyone else will just be sitting in, so if you don't feel as fresh as you'd like at the start, sit in and relax, but don't switch off.

I know that now, but it took me a while to realise it, hoping to make a bit more of an impact next season

Opera_Leonardo · 04-12-2012 8:27pm

Good advice colm_gti. I done a few sportives and charity runs this year but the eye opener was the first race that I done. So my advice would be to do as many small races as soon as you can and get a feel for cycling in a group & the speed, most seem to turn into a race anyway. And as colm_gti pointed out don't feel that you have to do all the work at the front, there's plenty willing to sit in and take advantage, then jump you at the finish. Train hard but cycle smart.

I think you said somewhere that hills weren't you're strong point, I think the only way round that is to try and focus on incorporating them into your training routes, stay in the seat as much as you can while climbing.

I just checked this year's (2012) calendar and it shows some events in Feb & March. Then it gets a bit busier from then on. So I'll plan to get out on a few early runs to get up to speed. At least I have a target to aim for and some data/times from this year to gauge my progress. This year I done my training not knowing if I was pushing hard enough or too much. I did find myself overdoing it at times during the week then I didn't have the legs when I needed them on a sportive/charity run on Sun, so less is more sometimes. At the end of the season I was able to sit with some of the faster guys , which is motivation for next year.

Opera_Leonardo · 12-12-2012 9:51pm

Have we lost you Slo to the madness of December?

Slo_Rida · 12-12-2012 11:25pm

Opera_Leonardo wrote: »

Have we lost you Slo to the madness of December?

Nope, work has been keeping me tied down for over a week, 15-hour days etc!
Got out for a good group spin last Saturday:
http://connect.garmin.com/activity/250286402
Just under 100km in 3hr10. I was feeling good after 60km so did one or 2 extra turns on the front to make sure I was cooked by the end. I was feeling great and being on the front was hard but manageable. I wasn't able for the "racing" at the end because my legs were bordering on cramp. And that brings me on to my latest baffler:
My lungs and heart seem to be getting fitter but my legs seem weak. I think I might need to do some power work or weight sessions. Any advice?

I've time off work tomorrow and have a spin planned with 2 buddies. I reckon 80km with a hill. Possibly this one that I did a fwe weeks ago:
http://connect.garmin.com/activity/244170799
And Saturday I will be off with the group again so hoping I'll get a reasonable few weeks done.

colm_gti · 12-12-2012 11:29pm

Slo_Rida wrote: »

My lungs and heart seem to be getting fitter but my legs seem weak. I think I might need to do some power work or weight sessions. Any advice?

Do they feel weak, as if you are limited by the amount of power you put down, or do you have enough power but they just start to burn quicker than others?

Slo_Rida · 12-12-2012 11:32pm

colm_gti wrote: »

Do they feel weak, as if you are limited by the amount of power you put down, or do you have enough power but they just start to burn quicker than others?

Probably the latter. I know deep down there is good strength in my legs, maybe it's endurance that I'm missing, it feels like strength though...

colm_gti · 12-12-2012 11:34pm

Slo_Rida wrote: »

Probably the latter. I know deep down there is good strength in my legs, maybe it's endurance that I'm missing, it feels like strength though...

If you feel you just can't put the power down for long periods, that's more to do with muscular endurance and lactate clearance, weight training won't improve that, but threshold training on the bike will

Slo_Rida · 13-12-2012 12:08am

colm_gti wrote: »

If you feel you just can't put the power down for long periods, that's more to do with muscular endurance and lactate clearance, weight training won't improve that, but threshold training on the bike will

Just googled threshold training...I shall give it a go! Bottom line is I need to spend more time on the bike. Turbo and/or road. And maybe try a little harder

Slo_Rida · 13-12-2012 11:43pm

Is this the way to test your LT:

Map a 3-mile route that you can ride without stopping. Strap on a heart rate monitor, warm up for 20 minutes, then ride the route at the fastest pace you can sustain. Recover for 10-20 minutes (ride back to the start of your route at an easy pace). Repeat the test. Your LT is approximately the average heart rate of the two efforts. (More accurately, it's 103 percent of that figure.)

I guess I'll have to do this before I can start training for it?

Slo

Slo_Rida · 13-12-2012 11:54pm

http://connect.garmin.com/activity/251559013
Did this with 2 buddies today. Tried going up the hill at their pace but couldn't hack it. Got most of the way up but blew with about 100m to go, took a while to recover then too. It was only 65km but it still felt like a decent work out. I'll be out Saturday morning and I'm hoping to take a morning off next week and get out again. I'm determined not to let Christmas be a washout, it will take a bit of planning to squeeze biking into family stuff but I'll have to give it a go...

Hmmzis · 14-12-2012 9:55am

Slo_Rida wrote: »

Is this the way to test your LT:

Map a 3-mile route that you can ride without stopping. Strap on a heart rate monitor, warm up for 20 minutes, then ride the route at the fastest pace you can sustain. Recover for 10-20 minutes (ride back to the start of your route at an easy pace). Repeat the test. Your LT is approximately the average heart rate of the two efforts. (More accurately, it's 103 percent of that figure.)

I guess I'll have to do this before I can start training for it?

Slo

Those intervals sound a bit short. If you go into this well rested there is a chance to get a higher value for your LT than it actually is.

If you cannot get a lab test done (by far the best money I've spent on this cycling lark). Then do a 30min TT, it should be an all out effort but not a race. After 10min in the effort start recording your HR. The average HR for those last 20min should be close to your actual LT.

Slo_Rida · 14-12-2012 12:22pm

I probably should have posted the link:
http://www.bicycling.com/training-nutrition/training-fitness/lactate-threshold-101
Yeah it sounds a bit not-that-difficult alright. Yours sounds a lot harder and possibly more accurate. Do you use 103% of that avg HR then? Or just that actual HR?
Slo

Plastik · 14-12-2012 1:34pm

What Hmmzis has posted is the Joe Friel protocol for determining your LTHR. You use the avg. HR over the last 20minutes as the indicator for your LTHR and your other zones are based on %'s above and below this. Lots of information on the web.

Slo_Rida · 14-12-2012 1:43pm

Plastik wrote: »

What Hmmzis has posted is the Joe Friel protocol for determining your LTHR. You use the avg. HR over the last 20minutes as the indicator for your LTHR and your other zones are based on %'s above and below this. Lots of information on the web.

I'm reading Joe Friel and find it's very much geared towards power meters.
It's all out on the web I know but it's good to hear from people here who know the situation I/we are in and have actually used certain techniques.

Slo_Rida · 14-12-2012 1:52pm

Just popped out to LBS during lunch and bought this:
http://www.chainreactioncycles.com/Models.aspx?ModelID=4671 for €20 (slightly cheaper than online price).
I noticed after yesterdays spin my drivetrain, chain and cassette are manky. Gonna get some degreaser from my local garage on the way home and get the whole thing shining. The frame is pretty rank too...I guess I'll wash that once the oily/chain stuff is finished.

Slo_Rida · 17-12-2012 12:35pm

Missed the boat Saturday morning for the group spin and after an hour of "will I-won't I" I went out myself for 75km. A couple of decent drags and otherwise undulating. I decided to try build a bit of strength and so pushed a slightly harder gear than usual and stayed seated the whole time especially on the drags. It actually suited me ok to drive a harder gear so I may try that next time too.
All my garmin data is gone from my garmin account so I'm trying to get that back. I'll upload Saturdays spin then. Hoping to do a turbo tonight and a road spin Wednesday. Twud be great to get a good week in before the Christmas shinnannigans! I can't see me hitting the bike much with the family stuff going on but we'll see.

fixie fox · 17-12-2012 3:01pm

Slo_Rida wrote: »

All my garmin data is gone from my garmin account

Like all IT stuff, you would be advised to backup - i.e. store your files on your own computer (and then back that up again!)

Slo_Rida · 17-12-2012 3:47pm

fixie fox wrote: »

Like all IT stuff, you would be advised to backup - i.e. store your files on your own computer (and then back that up again!)

Well I have it on my garmin devices but I would have named each session and would like the saved data. I'll ring their support line later.

Slo_Rida · 18-12-2012 10:16am

fixie fox wrote: »

Like all IT stuff, you would be advised to backup - i.e. store your files on your own computer (and then back that up again!)

Some problem with my browser (IE9). I opened it in firefox and it's all present and accounted for. Nice one!

Slo_Rida · 18-12-2012 10:26am

As mentioned above, I went out myself Saturday morning for ~75km. At times during it I felt like crap and that I was getting nowhere with training. Is this a common feeling? Sure the weather wasn't great, I got showered on a good bit but when you're out on your own I think maybe you can get distracted down negative street. Anyway, my cadence was deliberately down from ~90rpm to ~80rpm, a difference of about 8 or 9 over the last few spins. I think this may be where my strength is and the reason I've been struggling to make my legs stronger is that I'm forcing too high a cadence. I may be just a natural "grinder". If nothing else, the hi-cadence training has helped my fitness. I missed the turbo last night, just too much to do in the house and had to get groceries then too!!! Hoping to get out in the morning for a road spin with a buddy or 2. Here's the link to the garmin shtuff:
http://connect.garmin.com/activity/252616060
Onwards and upwards!

Opera_Leonardo · 20-12-2012 1:35pm

At least your getting out on the bike Slo. I havn't been able to get out in about seven weeks. I got an old frame last week to build up for winter training as I can't afford to ruin what I have either from a fall or just the grim/salt etc on the roads at this time of year.

On your query as to whether your getting anywhere with your training. I found the same thing during some of my spins this year, but I just took the positives out of it. By that I mean as long as your getting some miles under your belt (if your not carrying an injury) then it will help. I also found the weather can play a part in how you feel, its hard to feel comfortable if your cold on the bike.

For what it's worth my opinion is to do some weight training to target your legs/core. I have being doing a little work in that dept and I can see my legs bulking up so I'm using this work as a base then I will look to fine tune the legs on the bike/turbo later.

From talking to other riders, a lot either take a week or two off at this time of year, some even take December off. So don't feel to bad about the Christmas period. Spending some quality time with the family may earn you some brownie points!! Its a long season you may be out on the road a lot. Make the most of it while you can.

Slo_Rida · 24-12-2012 6:05pm

Opera_Leonardo wrote: »

At least your getting out on the bike Slo. I havn't been able to get out in about seven weeks. I got an old frame last week to build up for winter training as I can't afford to ruin what I have either from a fall or just the grim/salt etc on the roads at this time of year.

On your query as to whether your getting anywhere with your training. I found the same thing during some of my spins this year, but I just took the positives out of it. By that I mean as long as your getting some miles under your belt (if your not carrying an injury) then it will help. I also found the weather can play a part in how you feel, its hard to feel comfortable if your cold on the bike.

For what it's worth my opinion is to do some weight training to target your legs/core. I have being doing a little work in that dept and I can see my legs bulking up so I'm using this work as a base then I will look to fine tune the legs on the bike/turbo later.

From talking to other riders, a lot either take a week or two off at this time of year, some even take December off. So don't feel to bad about the Christmas period. Spending some quality time with the family may earn you some brownie points!! Its a long season you may be out on the road a lot. Make the most of it while you can.

Yeah it seems this biking game is as much psychological as physiological. You'd feel like a hormonal teenager...some days you feel crap and other days you're top of the world, it just depends how well you're going on the bike!

Slo_Rida · 24-12-2012 6:14pm

I was out with 2 buddies Wednesday morning and got in around 85 km (the last 9 are missing from the garmin as we stopped and then coasted home.
It was a mostly flat route with one climb - the one on Ras Limnui up out of Caherconlish in case you know it. It's not the worst and we didn't race up it so it didn't kill me. Well, I can honestly say, it's the forst time I ever felt really comfortable on a training spin. After 40km, I felt like I had only just warmed up and after 50km I was still fresh. At around the 65km mark my legs thought they were tired but then after a minute up out of the saddle to give certain muscles a rest, I was back again. The average speed was ~29kmh which for a group of 3 is probably not hectic but I'd say it's fine.
Feckin delighted as it felt like progress. Anyway, I shouldn't get too excited, there are tough times ahead between wine, turkey, chocolate and then higher intensity training I'd say the dark days aren't over yet!!
Stats:
http://connect.garmin.com/activity/254014339

Good times

Training Plan for first season racing

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