Kimmage seeks criminal investigation into Vebruggen/McQuaid - Mod Warning Post #1

RobFowl

Anti-doping journalist sued by cycling’s governing body
Although USADA’s reasoned judgement on the Lance Armstrong case will shortly be delivered to the UCI and WADA and is expected to include serious claims about a 2001 doping positive, the UCI is pressing ahead with a legal action against anti-doping journalist Paul Kimmage.

Read more: http://www.velonation.com/News/ID/12904/UCI-court-action-sees-Kimmage-summoned-to-appear-before-Swiss-court-in-December.aspx#ixzz271DcLj00

Mod Warning
Please see This post

Beasty wrote: »

Although it's fair to discuss Pat McQuaid and his actions, his family are not party to this legal action and are off-topic in this thread. The fact that a family member has posted does not mean that poster or other members of the family should be discussed

In addition, speculation over the activities of Pat McQuaid, the UCI or anyone else is not permitted. If you cannot back up your assertions with publicly available evidence, then don't post them here.

I shall repeat this warning in the OP so no-one can claim to have missed it

Thanks

Beasty

Further mod comment - title changed following the suspension of the UCI action against Kimmage and Kimmage requesting a criminal investigation into Vebruggen/McQuaid - see posts 262 onwards

buffalo

heh, I have a window open for starting a new thread with the exact same VN link.

I'm half-looking forward to this, just to see Kimmage vs UCI in court. Will this end McQuaid and Verbruggen? Will the LA evidence be released before the case is heard?

AstraMonti

Once again UCI shows how ridiculous they are.

The newspaper stated that they told the Swiss District Court that Kimmage has caused them ‘annoyance’ and that their ‘reputation has been seriously damaged’ by articles.

Read more: http://www.velonation.com/News/ID/12904/UCI-court-action-sees-Kimmage-summoned-to-appear-before-Swiss-court-in-December.aspx#ixzz271E72zho

Yes the articles are the reason that the reputation is damaged :pac:

RobFowl

I think this is disgraceful behavior by the UCI. Paul Kimmage was a continental pro for RMO and Fagor. He finished the Tour de France, the Giro d'Italia and is an ex Irish national champion.
He has long fought to highlight cheats and dopers at great personal cost. This action is IMO frivolous and completely unessecary.
I'm not sure what is the best way to put pressure on the UCI to drop it and would welcome any suggestions.

Lumen

RobFowl wrote: »

I'm not sure what is the best way to put pressure on the UCI to drop it and would welcome any suggestions.

CI members vote for CI to cancel membership of the UCI?

What would be the practical consequences of this for top-level racing in Ireland?

Lumen

Better idea: sue UCI for bring Cycling Ireland into disrepute.

CramCycle

One better: I'll sue UCI for bringing cycling and by proxy cyclists (including myself) into disrepute. All those jokes about doping are having an emotional strain on me..cough cough.

I am afraid to take my cleared Diabetes meds when I am out on the bike nowadays for fear of being lambasted as a cheat.

jinkypolly

Vindictive, pompous, arrogant bullies. These guys are supposed to run the sport, how they are tolerated is beyond me. This may be naive but can someone tell me why the cycling world puts up with them, they are poisonous to the sport.

petethedrummer

hmmm 6.6 grand to publicly defame a UCI official. Anyone wanna go halfsies?

AstraMonti

RobFowl wrote: »

I'm not sure what is the best way to put pressure on the UCI to drop it and would welcome any suggestions.

Signed petition to Cycling Ireland asking for an official letter of dissaproval on UCI's actions? Not sure what we can achieve with this though.

Flandria

AstraMonti wrote: »

Signed petition to Cycling Ireland asking for an official letter of dissaproval on UCI's actions? Not sure what we can achieve with this though.

Did you see the petition in The Clinic for McQ to resign?

CramCycle

AstraMonti wrote: »

Signed petition to Cycling Ireland asking for an official letter of dissaproval on UCI's actions? Not sure what we can achieve with this though.

Where is it?

Flandria

http://forum.cyclingnews.com/showthread.php?t=18601

ROK ON

A motion at the CI AGM.

Support for PK

Suspension of McQuaid by CI.

Beasty

Lumen wrote: »

CI members vote for CI to cancel membership of the UCI?

What would be the practical consequences of this for top-level racing in Ireland?

Don't worry about it, the IVCA is not affiliated to the UCI:pac::pac:

TheBlaaMan

ROK ON wrote: »

A motion at the CI AGM.

Support for PK

Suspension of McQuaid by CI.

The best way to support Kimmage will be for cyclists everywhere to contribute to a fund to assist him in defending this case. I somehow doubt Paul Kimmage is quaking in his shoes at the thought of having to go to Switzerland to defend himself, but on a practical level we can all assist by offering a few €uro to a defense fund - I'm in no doubt that one will be set up.

If it was large enough, I'm sure it would be useful in getting whoever he needs over to Switzerland as a defense witness, or whatever other measures are needed to show up Verbruggen in particular - though McQuaid is a belligerent in this too.


EDIT: That didn't take long. http://www.cyclismas.com/2012/09/paul-kimmage-defense-fund/

Come on anyone who believes in Kimmage and his efforts to rid cycling of the scourge of drug cheats.......chip in!!!

buffalo

TheBlaaMan wrote: »

The best way to support Kimmage will be for cyclists everywhere to contribute to a fund to assist him in defending this case. I somehow doubt Paul Kimmage is quaking in his shoes at the thought of having to go to Switzerland to defend himself, but on a practical level we can all assist by offering a few €uro to a defense fund - I'm in no doubt that one will be set up.

And pow! http://www.cyclismas.com/2012/09/paul-kimmage-defense-fund/

Limestone1

RobFowl wrote: »

I think this is disgraceful behavior by the UCI. Paul Kimmage was a continental pro for RMO and Fagor. He finished the Tour de France, the Giro d'Italia and is an ex Irish national champion.
He has long fought to highlight cheats and dopers at great personal cost. This action is IMO frivolous and completely unessecary.
I'm not sure what is the best way to put pressure on the UCI to drop it and would welcome any suggestions.

He only lasted 3 years as a pro so lets face it, he couldn't cut it with the big boys. That he blames this on everyone else being doped up to the gills is evident in his writing but to me his repetitive covering of old ground year after year has always smacked of bitterness.

I doubt he would want to see this dropped as I'm sure he would relish the chance to stand in an open court and condemn Armstrong without being interrupted or shouted down, especially with the USADA findings to back him up.

Ironically this case could effectively lead to the public trial of USADA's evidence, a trial which Lance didn't want and cunningly avoided by not fighting it himself. He is definitely not going to want this going ahead when he cops on to the fact that it will be all about him and it will get big publicity - therefore Armstrong will probably be the one to get UCI to drop it.

RobFowl

Limestone1 wrote: »

He only lasted 3 years as a pro so lets face it, he couldn't cut it with the big boys

It was 4 years as a pro 86,87,88 and 89.
He was the first to admit he wasn't able to compete with the best but to even finish the Tour and Giro takes a fair bit of dedication and talent.

longshank

Limestone1 wrote: »

He only lasted 3 years as a pro so lets face it, he couldn't cut it with the big boys. That he blames this on everyone else being doped up to the gills is evident in his writing but to me his repetitive covering of old ground year after year has always smacked of bitterness.

I doubt he would want to see this dropped as I'm sure he would relish the chance to stand in an open court and condemn Armstrong without being interrupted or shouted down, especially with the USADA findings to back him up.

Ironically this case could effectively lead to the public trial of USADA's evidence, a trial which Lance didn't want and cunningly avoided by not fighting it himself. He is definitely not going to want this going ahead when he cops on to the fact that it will be all about him and it will get big publicity - therefore Armstrong will probably be the one to get UCI to drop it.

R u for real if nothing has recent past not showed that Kimmage has every right to be bitter, they were all doped up and he got shafted for trying to do the right thing. How can some people still not accept cyclings recent past is rotten and it only has a future due to people like Kimmage, he being bitter or not is irrelevant, the facts now stand for themselves.

el tel

Has there ever been a sport which dumped its governing body? It really rankles me that I might actually be funding these UCI people.

petethedrummer

Limestone1 wrote: »

He only lasted 3 years as a pro so lets face it, he couldn't cut it with the big boys. That he blames this on everyone else being doped up to the gills is evident in his writing but to me his repetitive covering of old ground year after year has always smacked of bitterness.

If you actually read his book you would see that he was always honest in regards to his talent compared to that of Roche or Lemond. In fact at times he was fawning of Roche. He was also honest about how lazy he was in regards to training and diet.

Flandria

Do the UCI really, really want Kimmage in court with all that ripe USADA evidence waiting to be unpacked? I guess Pat's vanity says yes, so bring it on!

Flandria

ROK ON wrote: »

A motion at the CI AGM.

Support for PK

Suspension of McQuaid by CI.

Why not something along these lines? Seriously, some kind of stand should be taken against shameless, petty bullying like this.

morana

Kimmage was an excellent rider if we had a number of his ability we would be certainly better off. He was 6th in the amateur worlds iirc. If we get a sixth this week it will be a great achievement.

One thing I did notice on a TV program about him last year he had a huge poster of Kelly on his wall, I didnt expect that.

Lumen

morana wrote: »

One thing I did notice on a TV program about him last year he had a huge poster of Kelly on his wall, I didnt expect that.

Many dart holes? :pac:

TheBlaaMan

buffalo wrote: »

And pow! http://www.cyclismas.com/2012/09/paul-kimmage-defense-fund/

Already, a total of nearly $2500 has been lodged in this fund.......

fishfoodie

> $3.2k Dig deep folks. It's worth it to get fatso in the stand under oath to answer a few questions himself !

Hermy

Limestone1 wrote: »

...but to me his repetitive covering of old ground year after year has always smacked of bitterness...

Or the fact that the sport is still rife with doping!

AstraMonti wrote: »

Signed petition to Cycling Ireland asking for an official letter of dissaproval on UCI's actions? Not sure what we can achieve with this though.

For one thing it would establish CI's commitment to clean sport (or not).

Lumen

fishfoodie wrote: »

> $3.2k Dig deep folks. It's worth it to get fatso in the stand under oath to answer a few questions himself !

If there's any excess they should donate it to cancer research.

kilns

I live near Aigle at the moment, I will pop into UCI HQ's and gently persuade Pat to drop the case!

The Crunch

morana wrote: »

Kimmage was an excellent rider if we had a number of his ability we would be certainly better off. He was 6th in the amateur worlds iirc. If we get a sixth this week it will be a great achievement.

Sixth in the world on a punctured tyre! And the amateur worlds was a tougher bike race to get up in than the U23 worlds is now with all the iron curtain 'pros'.
There are sportives/charity bike rides in the names of Sean Kelly, Stephen Roche and Martin Earley but none, as yet, for Paul Kimmage.
He was a class rider and has achieved so much more for the sport as a journalist.
Time for a "Paul Kimmage Tour of North Dublin and Meath."

buffalo

http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/verbruggen-wont-take-legal-action-against-hamilton

Hilarious follow-up. How not to make yourself look good to the cycling public.

TheBlaaMan

buffalo wrote: »

http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/verbruggen-wont-take-legal-action-against-hamilton

Hilarious follow-up. How not to make yourself look good to the cycling public.

Its kind of sad to see this old man make a fool of himself. One wonders at how the day in court will go if he has to provide a testimony - I bet UCI laywers will do their upmost to ensure he doesn't have to.

If Pat McQuaid is half the politician he reckons that he is, I think he'll be preparing a Plan B ......... ensuring that if the case flames Verbruggen, that he (McQuaid) manages to escape the collateral damage that will ensue - its going to be interesting to watch this develop. I've a feeling that its far from certain that it will even go ahead.

Flandria

Michael Ashenden's letter of support to Paul in NY Velocity is at http://nyvelocity.com/content/features/2012/paul-kimmage-defense-fund

Mods, it's worth reading in full:

Dear Paul,

I was shocked to read today that you have received a subpoena related to defamation proceedings brought against you by Pat McQuaid, Hein Verbruggen and the UCI itself.

It is not clear to me what the basis for the proceeding is; to the best of my knowledge it has not been publicly disclosed. Regardless, I find it deeply disturbing that, amidst the current turmoil surrounding cycling, you have been singled out.

I do not believe that court is the appropriate remedy in the current circumstances. For example, I don’t expect that WADA will sue him after Pat McQuaid claimed that WADA had launched a ‘15-year long political campaign against cycling’. Although his comments certainly do not reflect well on WADA’s integrity, to their credit WADA have shown admirable restraint.

I sincerely hope that after a period of reflection the UCI will adopt a similar attitude regarding your comments too.

Nonetheless, today I have had a change of heart. Earlier this year one of the UCI’s Passport cases that I had worked on as a member of their expert panel had to be dropped after we had received the rider’s explanation and us group of three experts could not reach a consensus decision. At the time, I chose not to invoice the UCI for the hours and hours which I had spent working on that case since October 2011. However, your subpoena gave me pause to reflect, and I have decided to invoice the UCI a token amount of 260 Euro (two hours at our expert rate) for my contributions on that case. I have simultaneously deposited that amount into your defense fund.

I sincerely hope you are not required to pay a fine. However in case you are, I hope it is some solace that to some degree you would be merely handing the UCI’s own money back to them.

Please keep up your good work – The Times They Are a-Changin’.

Best wishes,

Mike Ashenden

petethedrummer

Kimmage should get Grey Manrod Associates to represent him.
http://nyvelocity.com/content/features/2011/landis-emails

elduggo

gave 20 quid there. Almost 4 grand in 24 hours. Impressive. Hopefully it keeps rising.

Undercover Elephant

elduggo wrote: »

gave 20 quid there. Almost 4 grand in 24 hours. Impressive. Hopefully it keeps rising.

That will just about cover the hotel bill in Vevey. Better take a packed breakfast, though.

Flandria

petethedrummer wrote: »

Kimmage should get Grey Manrod Associates to represent him.
http://nyvelocity.com/content/features/2011/landis-emails

Crazy boy Floyd - crazy funny comic genius

AstraMonti

petethedrummer wrote: »

Kimmage should get Grey Manrod Associates to represent him.
http://nyvelocity.com/content/features/2011/landis-emails

Mr Dite****,

I am in tears laughing.

Flandria

OK here is the online petition calling for McQuaid's resignation https://www.change.org/en-GB/petitions/world-cycling-organization-uci-for-president-pat-mcquaid-to-resign-and-cycling-to-be-cleaned-up#share

ashleey

Signed

Flandria

Some interesting signatures and comments already - including Daniel Benson, Susan Westermeyer and the Cycling News staff

kilns

Undercover Elephant wrote: »

That will just about cover the hotel bill in Vevey. Better take a packed breakfast, though.

He can kip at mine! Every penny counts!!

RobFowl

https://www.change.org/en-GB/petitions/world-cycling-organization-uci-for-president-pat-mcquaid-to-resign-and-cycling-to-be-cleaned-up#share

Signed with a sense of regret for what could have been

Stokolan

RobFowl wrote: »

https://www.change.org/en-GB/petitions/world-cycling-organization-uci-for-president-pat-mcquaid-to-resign-and-cycling-to-be-cleaned-up#share

Signed with a sense of regret for what could have been

Signed with a missspelled name fecking phone

boege

Have been reading the thread plus the links in shock. Beyond the disbelief that UCI are suing Kimmage is my disbelive in the bullying arrogance of UCI past and current members. What hope now for any Pro whistleblowing as they have more or less indicated they will sue?

What is also amazing to me is the information spilling out on the sides. I have seldom engaged in the Armstrong doping debate seeing it as a side show, as I long suspected that his links with UCI made him untouchable.

Ultimately the questions needed to go 'upstairs'. Paul Kimmage decided to move these questions to where they should rightfully be put.

What a mess and what a sad day for cycling!

Junior

Morana how would we get a request raised at the Cycling Ireland AGM ?

RobFowl

David Millar ‏@millarmind UCI = SHAMEFUL. They continue to sue Kimmage which is disgusting and Verbruggen speaks out proving he must have nothing to do with cycling.

RobFowl

Junior wrote: »

Morana how would we get a request raised at the Cycling Ireland AGM ?

Details here Junior

http://www.cyclingireland.ie/Home/News/CI-AGM-First-Notice.aspx

Junior

RobFowl wrote: »

Details here Junior

http://www.cyclingireland.ie/Home/News/CI-AGM-First-Notice.aspx

Had a read of that .. it only says

General administrative motions can be sent to the Cycling Ireland Office to be received by 1700 hours on 05th October 2012.

Is there a form to be completed ? Can anyone raise a motion etc ?