RGI Gas Installer not happy with him...

BrookieD

Hi All,
So i needed a boiler replacement and got a guy who is RGI for 1500.. After a call to explain the job is in a 2 bed terraced with 7 rads and i wanted a replacement boiler the price went from 1500 (as advertised on his site) to 1700??? i query the price and get told is to take into account the extra pipes etc.. to fit the new boiler to the older fittings...( no idea but went with it)

Agreed that he would come out this tuesday for a look see and be back next tuesday to start work... on arriving he starts to take out the boiler and rad from the kitchen, then up into the attic and then back down and starts power flushing the rads. Then tells the wife he needs a part for a gas valve he needs to fit.. She gives him 20 quid and never gave the change back or a receipt?

I then get a call from the wife who he tells that there is a gas leak, We call Board Gais and then come out and ask why he did not turn off the supply? he said it was not his job? Then told we have two small leaks with a faulty gas fire that we never use and we decide to cap this but we needed to replace a gas hob as the leak was from the rings.

I call this same guy back and ask him for a price to fit the hob and cap the fire to which he stats 120 "but i need a part to cap the fire and dont know the price?" explaining i needed to know a rough guide to get money out the back he starts to loose the rag.

I explain that others are quoting 120 and the price is fine however this is including the capping, fitting of a hob and cert also turning gas back on...

He starts shouting at me at telling me the money for the capping could 20 or 30 euros more but unknown until he knows the pipe size then tells me the Cert is the big cost, then tells me my house is a disaster zone with leaks all over the place and i am lucky to be alive??? I simple again say i need to get money out of the bank so need to know a rough cost and he tells me that he wont be back....

Simple me thinks, he broke a contract to fit a boiler so i will pay someone else to finish the work and he gets sweet FA

Then he texts me back to say 125 all in and here in the morning...

any know where i stand as i need the boiler fitted and gas hob & fire capping and gas on... just a nightmare at this stage.....

leeomurchu

Plenty of plumbers out there tell him to jog on

BrookieD

very tempted, just dont want my wife to have hassle while i am at work. for example looking for money for half a job...

leeomurchu

BrookieD wrote: »

very tempted, just dont want my wife to have hassle while i am at work. for example looking for money for half a job...

From the sounds of it he's done more harm than good. next time he calls ask if you can see his RGI card I'd be willing to bet he doesn't have one. Then you can politely say your insurance requires you to have a certified RGI install your new boiler

I wouldn't be that polite though to be honest, you asked him for a rough price if he didn't know the least he should've said was sure I'll get a price on materials and you can fix me up with money later in the week.

You're paying him for a service if you're not happy with the service get rid of the person providing it. Simples

leeomurchu

BrookieD wrote: »

We call Board Gais and then come out and ask why he did not turn off the supply? he said it was not his job?

Surely turning off the gas supply would be the first step in replacing a gas boiler :eek: It's not as if it's a difficult job there's a valve in the meter box you could've done that and he's the plumber :eek:

I'd be a bit wary of this lad to be honest

BrookieD

i found this lad on the RGI installer site... would this indicate he has a rgi card???????

leeomurchu

I'm not to sure how often they update those sites but you have to keep up to date renewing your certs etc afaik.

I wouldn't stand for much more if I were you but you may not want to ruffle his feathers.

Billy Bunting

BrookieD wrote: »

i found this lad on the RGI installer site... would this indicate he has a rgi card???????

They are very quick to remove any RGI if they are not 100% with the rules of membership.... http://www.rgii.ie/safety/rules-of-membership.2726.html

shane0007

Hang on, back up, back up!!!!

If this is the standard of work this guy does, do not use him to even change a light bulb. You most certainly would not leave a job with a gas leak, never mind two leaks. With every job the first thing I do is a soundness test before any work commences. Then I know I am working on a leak free system and when I am finished I soundness test again to ensure I am leaving a leak free system.

The part to blank a gas fire pipe would cost no more than a couple of euros. From the off he went in with a cheap price to get in the door and then the price is whacked up. Not good business! There are plenty of excellent RGI's out there but I would always advice to get a personal recommendation or at least a reference.

I'v sent you a pm of 2 RGI's who don't shout, leave leaks or rip people off.

DGOBS

My biggest issue here is one for safety, and safe working practices are appaently above this guy.

Ring or login to the RGII website, and report this guy and request an inspector to visit your house. As for shouting at a client, that is where the work would stop if I was you. Never loose sight of the fact you are the employer, he is the employee.

Shutting off and ensuring gas safety in you house IS HIS JOB, plain and simple, do not proceed with this work, how can you trust it will be done correctly after these issues.

Gary I am sure has sent you names of reputable installers, have one out to have a look for you.

BrookieD

where would i stand on the issue of half complete work? I am very unhappy at the way i was spoken to. Very unhappy at being told the house is a death trap and that i am lucky to be alive (Even though gas board confirm it was two very minor leaks...)

At the end of the day he left with a Boiler thrown in my front garden after being told to leave it in the back garden and telling my wife "sure dont worry the tinkers will take it for ya???"

Also left with a gapping hole in the wall where the gas flue(?) passed to the exterior of the house. Surely i would have though they would have just plugged this even with paper but nothing.. just left and i needed to stuff a bag into it....

To be honest this is just a nightmare at the moment as I want the job completed. At the moment i have no boiler and the wife is goind mad (rightly so) that she just wants the job finished...

I suppose i need a boiler installed and supplied that i can trust the fitter and pay via a visa card... I at this moment have no intention of paying this fella for the work so far as its just a joke of a situation...

Any guidence would be very helpful.

Darren

DGOBS

As regards changing over to another installer, I don't think you'll have too much trouble.
The new installer may or may not need an rgi inspector out to fill out a change of installer form (but most likely not even as long as no gas pipework has been done)
A few of the guy here cover that area, and if asked I am sure they would PM you and arrange to drop around.

notdiyguy

gary71 wrote: »

I'v sent you a pm of 2 RGI's who don't shout, leave leaks or rip people off.

hi garry could you please forward to me the number of your recommended gas installer...
million thanks, ill appreciate that.

corkgsxr

shane0007 wrote: »

Hang on, back up, back up!!!!

If this is the standard of work this guy does, do not use him to even change a light bulb. You most certainly would not leave a job with a gas leak, never mind two leaks. With every job the first thing I do is a soundness test before any work commences. Then I know I am working on a leak free system and when I am finished I soundness test again to ensure I am leaving a leak free system.

The part to blank a gas fire pipe would cost no more than a couple of euros. From the off he went in with a cheap price to get in the door and then the price is whacked up. Not good business! There are plenty of excellent RGI's out there but I would always advice to get a personal recommendation or at least a reference.

Yep and that's important for you. Inform someone of a leak after youv been working on the gas pipes. What's that going to look like.

He sounds like a dope.

corkplumber

I know this is an old thread. first time I read it. how did this all end up.

I cant believe lads deal with customers like this. I think customer relations course should be available.

I had a few customers over the years that where treated like sh!t by plumbers ( & the ones I have experience of , just genuine nice folk, getting taking advantage off). I cant understand it (we are in a well payed industry) no other pro service would get away with this.

maybe a case of you can take the boy out of the "area" but cant take the "area" out of the boy.

Just as I can sniff out a bad client. (in fairness you know them) clients with any kind of cop on , should be able to sniff these lads out. what I found over the years. these kind of lads are never recommended and never really busy. Dust sheets never part of the tool kit. job is always cheaper to get in the door (money demands come as soon as job starts) and no written quotations. ILL PROBABLY MAKE A FEW ENEMIES OVER THAT STATEMENT. But sometimes it really does piss me off.

belive it or not we have biys like that in cork aswell.

scudo2

BrookieD wrote: »

where would i stand on the issue of half complete work? I am very unhappy at the way i was spoken to. Very unhappy at being told the house is a death trap and that i am lucky to be alive (Even though gas board confirm it was two very minor leaks...)

At the end of the day he left with a Boiler thrown in my front garden after being told to leave it in the back garden and telling my wife "sure dont worry the tinkers will take it for ya???"

Also left with a gapping hole in the wall where the gas flue(?) passed to the exterior of the house. Surely i would have though they would have just plugged this even with paper but nothing.. just left and i needed to stuff a bag into it....

To be honest this is just a nightmare at the moment as I want the job completed. At the moment i have no boiler and the wife is goind mad (rightly so) that she just wants the job finished...

I suppose i need a boiler installed and supplied that i can trust the fitter and pay via a visa card... I at this moment have no intention of paying this fella for the work so far as its just a joke of a situation...

Any guidence would be very helpful.

Darren

Listen to the advice given above by very good careing professionals and your gut feeling.
You have a home that you want to live in safely for the next 20 years.
Run him. He showed his quality by leaving gas leaks, tapping you for €20 and not knowing the price of a blank for gas fire €2 to €3 !!
Need anybody say more.
Contact RGII.

corkplumber

corkplumber wrote: »

I cant understand it (we are in a well payed industry) no other pro service would get away with this.

It's not a well payed industry across the board and its not overly professional(at times).

Don't go mixing Gas up with plumbing where there is a apprenticeship, trade qualifications and a environment where customer relations/service can be passed from tradesman to apprentice.

Until recently the only requirement to be a Rgii was to sit a few courses and was open to anyone even those who wanted to give it a lash on the days the pub was shut, is it any wonder then that we have some unsuitable "tradesman" working under the RGI banner when no one was(is) there to police entrants.

As RGIs we are part of one of the most ludicrously frustrating registration schemes i'v ever seen, this year alone i'v witnessed due to silliness mass carbon monoxide poisoning of people in their work place(after new installs), massive leaks left on new LPG gas supply pipework, SE flues fitted to HE boilers allowing large levels of carbon monoxide in to the property's, boiler installs that commonly have unweathered flues sticking 2 foot out the side of houses.

So long story short this industry has become a joke, it did have a opportunity of being a professional and safe working environment but they dropped the ball. I used to say "unfortunately it will take a few deaths before things will get better", well we've had those deaths now sadly. Now I don't know what it will take but what I do know is the price that some family members have to pay needn't be required with a different safe approach.

scudo2

Sorry I didn't spot that this was an old tread.

But agree TOTALLY with Garry.

But deaths don't change much.....I know.

Cowboys will be cowboys, and there to thick or don't care about how dangerous they are.

scudo2

scudo2 wrote: »

Sorry I didn't spot that this was an old tread.

But agree TOTALLY with Garry.

But deaths don't change much.....I know.

Cowboys will be cowboys, and there to thick or don't care about how dangerous they are.

But they should, deaths occur as you've experienced unfortunately and I have my own experiences as a first responder, lessons should be learnt to prevent anyone paying the price again.

It doesn't have to be like it is at the moment, I do get very wound up sitting here waiting for the next preventable death to make the news, knowing that with investment in RGI training and good working practises lives can be saved, no RGI(even the fruitloops)wants to be responsible for a death.

RGII are sitting on a lot of money taken from RGI's in fees, that money could be put to work tomorrow to start improving safety if they wanted to.

corkgsxr

Im constantly amazed by people saving there old plumber was a odd bollix. You'll get more work from being nice than being cheap

scudo2

None of us are perfect, we can all slip up. Ill be the first to put my hand up, But at least we do the best and safest job possible with our priorty on safety, safety, safety and not our back pocket.
I sleep well.

corkgsxr

corkgsxr wrote: »

Im constantly amazed by people saving there old plumber was a odd bollix. You'll get more work from being nice than being cheap

It's nice to be nice, who wants to go to work and argue all day(unless your a politician, and with the free bar and lap dancing i could be tempted:D)

corkgsxr

gary71 wrote: »

It's nice to be nice, who wants to go to work and argue all day(unless your a politician, and with the free bar and lap dancing a could be tempted:D)

Yep who recommends "well he's a decent plumber but he's a prick"

And anyway the days are nicer.

corkplumber

gary71 wrote: »

It's not a well payed industry across the board and its not overly professional(at times).

Don't go mixing Gas up with plumbing where there is a apprenticeship, trade qualifications and a environment where customer relations/service can be passed from tradesman to apprentice.

Until recently the only requirement to be a Rgii was to sit a few courses and was open to anyone even those who wanted to give it a lash on the days the pub was shut, is it any wonder then that we have some unsuitable "tradesman" working under the RGI banner when no one was(is) there to police entrants.

As RGIs we are part of one of the most ludicrously frustrating registration schemes i'v ever seen, this year alone i'v witnessed due to silliness mass carbon monoxide poisoning of people in their work place(after new installs), massive leaks left on new LPG gas supply pipework, SE flues fitted to HE boilers allowing large levels of carbon monoxide in to the property's, boiler installs that commonly have unweathered flues sticking 2 foot out the side of houses.

So long story short this industry has become a joke, it did have a opportunity of being a professional and safe working environment but they dropped the ball. I used to say "unfortunately it will take a few deaths before things will get better", well we've had those deaths now sadly. Now I don't know what it will take but what I do know is the price that some family members have to pay needn't be required with a different safe approach.

Gary. Im 4th generation plumber in my family(my granddad ran cramptons without an analizer) We all made / make a good living. When I started in this game. If you didn't have connections (father ect) you didn't get into this game. BOOM changed all that.

Customer relationship has fcuk all to do with CO ect. I got my morals old stock. born with a spanner and respect.

but id like you to explain in what generation it became a joke?

corkplumber

corkplumber wrote: »

Gary. Im 4th generation plumber in my family(my granddad ran cramptons without an analizer) We all made / make a good living. When I started in this game. If you didn't have connections (father ect) you didn't get into this game. BOOM changed all that.

Customer relationship has fcuk all to do with CO ect. I got my morals old stock. born with a spanner and respect.

Sorry pal, don't understand.

As for the rest I don't disagree, my point is without a apprenticeship or training of some description customer service can be lost on some, I know very technical Rgi who's customer service and communication with a customer is brutal. When working in other people's houses a little bit of respect goes along way, good service is a skill in its self.

corkplumber

gary71 wrote: »

Sorry pal, don't understand.

.

well if you don't understand. case closed.

years ago before the boom you had tea boys, plumers mates & plumbers. Now their all plumbers.

as for cramptons...they where the biggest employer of plumbers in this country. no one else could guarantee to provide full time constant work for plumbers. "PLUMBERS"

that was the old apprentice scheme... My granddad ran that place (only took time out during the civil war, to fight for a united Ireland, he wasn't a free stater). old stock. no sh!t. his son same morals. RESPECT is the name of the game. CO and the rest is part of a skill handed down

corkplumber

& with langers going around making A LOT OF MONEY compared to other industries. treating clients like sh!t , what morals and respect are they passing on. that wasn't heard of years ago. that's a new breed in the industry. you always had the cowboys. but they have certs now. its the truth & I know a lot deep down, agree.

demanding/tapping money and the rest of it. im sorry, but it makes me fcukin sick.

I'm ex british gas with a training structure that goes back over a hundred and fifty years except for the two big wars where they took time off from gas fitting to fight the Hun. Like yourself customer service/respect was paramount in BG.

There are lots of RGI's working to a high standard giving good customer service, I just wish the industry was left to the professionasl and anyone wishing to enter the industry where given a decent level of training to maintain a high standard once they joined , you would still get miserably gas fitters but they would still be doing good work.

As mentioned it's not hard to give good service and be respectful of customers property, for the life of me I don't understand those who give bad service as they are putting themselves on the back foot straight away.



As for when did it become a joke, when it was decided that 18/20 days training was sufficient to work as a gas engineer along side time served tradesmen.

corkplumber

corkplumber wrote: »

& with langers going around making A LOT OF MONEY compared to other industries. treating clients like sh!t , what morals and respect are they passing on. that wasn't heard of years ago. that's a new breed in the industry. you always had the cowboys. but they have certs now. its the truth & I know a lot deep down, agree.

demanding/tapping money and the rest of it. im sorry, but it makes me fcukin sick.

Now your sucking diesel;)

corkplumber

gary71 wrote: »

Like yourself customer service/respect was paramount in BG.

There are lots of RGI's working to a high standard giving good customer service, I just wish the industry was left to the professionasl and anyone wishing to enter the industry where given a decent level of training to maintain a high standard once they joined , you would still get miserably gas fitters but they would still be doing good work.

As mentioned it's not hard to give good service and be respectful of customers property, for the life of me I don't understand those who give bad service as they are putting themselves on the back foot straight away.



As for when did it become a joke, when it was decided that 18/20 days training was sufficient to work as a gas engineer along side time served tradesmen.

I count agree any more with the above. but this customer got an rgi. id expect them to get at the least a miserable gas fitter that would still be doing good work and show a respect towards the customer.

€800 to change two pcbs, €380+ fitting for a expansion vessel on a Heatline, €800+ on another Heatline after changing numerous parts It was found the thermostat knob stem was to short.

All above we're Bord Gais and if you can't trust them who can you trust.

corkplumber

gary71 wrote: »

€800 to change two pcbs, €380+ fitting for a expansion vessel on a Heatline, €800+ on another Heatline after changing numerous parts It was found the thermostat knob stem was to short.

All above we're Bord Gais and if you can't trust them who can you trust.

gary as I said im 4th generation. I could tell you stories about RGI and BG. Going back even to when BG before RGI was around. BG putting gas lines in. just to get customers transferred over. the pipes and burner change overs ect getting installed (you want to talk about dangerous) . & these lads that got the contracts (are RGI founders)

I even remember letters sent out to customers stating the oil burner change overs to gas. where dangerous. who fitted them.no wording in the letter about that.

that's no fcukin joke. probably got customer service skills from them

corkgsxr

theres alot of good fellas subbing off bg but theres even more that are atrocious. i donno how they get away with it.

whats worse iv heard technicians get 50 or 100 for every boiler change that goes ahead that they recommended.
i got called out to one house that the boiler apparently couldnt be fixed. i topped up the pressure and by what must be a miracle its still working 6 months later.

the mother in law. boiler dropping gas pressure. about 1 mbar in the 2 mins. told boiler was unsafe. she rang me wondering how much a boiler was thinking her house could explode. turns out it was just a gas valve. changed the valve and all is good, gas back on.

i wont go on

Billy Bunting

gary71 wrote: »

Don't go mixing Gas up with plumbing where there is a apprenticeship, trade qualifications and a environment where customer relations/service can be passed from tradesman to apprentice.

.

Don't forget Gary! some of us did do the time and the apprentaship, and I for one loath being labeled a RGI because of the stigma that now goes along with it.

scudo2

Billy Bunting wrote: »

Don't forget Gary! some of us did do the time and the apprentaship, and I for one loath being labeled a RGI because of the stigma that now goes along with it.

Its as bad as " Guild Of Master Craftsmen"

corkplumber

Its not really. we have had these problems a long time. I can even remember when we had a strong PLUMBERS union. It was ran by a socialist welder. (a welder running a plumbers union)

RGI distinguishes a safety aspect in training (nothing else, min requirement is GID, min requirement for GID is GIS, minimum requirement for GIS is a 4 week course). What is needed is something to distinguish qualified plumbers / gas fitters ect from tech not time served.

GIS should be abolished and only part of the apprenticeship. Min requirement to sit GID still be GIS. Cuts the **** out. OFTEC min requirement should be trade paper.

corkplumber

I heard a saying along time back stuck in me head.

IF YOU CAN GET THE JOB DONE CHEAPER. WAIT TILL YOU END UP WITH THE FINAL BILL AFTER THE AMETUR IS FINISHED.

corkplumber

just to add. (I left out) electricans are the only trade that should be able outside qualified plumbers to obtain GID and OFTEC.

if that became the system. (which it should be). we be like the taxis before regulation. You wouldn't see many on the road.

Billy Bunting

Billy Bunting wrote: »

Don't forget Gary! some of us did do the time and the apprentaship, and I for one loath being labeled a RGI because of the stigma that now goes along with it.

I mean no disrespect Mr Bunting, most of my pontificating comes from the frustration of seeing the work that's being done by some card carrying RGI and the impact it's having on our trade/customers, I spend so much time shaking my head while tutting I'm going to end up with a bad neck and horse:eek:

corkplumber

gary and billy. am I missing something or misreading. is gary qualified plumber and billy not. or something

Neither of us our qualified plumbers;)

Qualified gas service engineers:cool:






Don't do toilets:)

scudo2

corkplumber wrote: »

just to add. (I left out) electricans are the only trade that should be able outside qualified plumbers to obtain GID and OFTEC.

WHY ?
The only people who should be let near boilers is somebody that has served a proper apprenticeship with plenty of boiler experience.
You shouldn't be able to walk from one trade and into another without the proper experence.
If they have good grass roots boiler experience then I've no problem with that, no matter what trade.

But not an open door policy.

corkplumber

gary71 wrote: »

Qualified gas service engineers:cool:






Don't do toilets:)

so excuse my ignorance. you are both tech then. (plumbers mates). I have gid, oftec , fetac level 6 certs in you name it. but my trade cert is but the bible. are you telling me you don't have trade certs for the relevant industry and buy the way gary eng is a misused word. they do 4/5 years in a college. plumbers serve their time in on site and partly in it/college. eng is a name provided by no instituition in Ireland for plumbers that fit gas or anything else

I think you mean TECH that got in the back door

Billy Bunting

corkplumber wrote: »

gary and billy. am I missing something or misreading. is gary qualified plumber and billy not. or something

Gary has indeed many qualifications (some that we can’t talk about here :P ), I am also well endowed, but I spent 30 years of my life being a Gas Service Engineer when the label actually meant something, now as a RGI I am questionable.

corkplumber

scudo2 wrote: »

corkplumber wrote: »

just to add. (I left out) electricans are the only trade that should be able outside qualified plumbers to obtain GID and OFTEC.

WHY ?
The only people who should be let near boilers is somebody that has served a proper apprenticeship with plenty of boiler experience.
You shouldn't be able to walk from one trade and into another without the proper experence.
If they have good grass roots boiler experience then I've no problem with that, no matter what trade.

But not an open door policy.

scudo I agree completely. but electricans make good fault finders for servicing.

corkplumber

corkplumber wrote: »

scudo I agree completely. but electricans make good fault finders for servicing.

Wouldn't it be nice if they started with the ones they leave.



Meow......

corkplumber

gary71 wrote: »

Wouldn't it be nice if they start with the ones they leave.

good for electrical fault finding. A word TECH distinguished on them with their qualified electrican cert. ever say to an electrican the load is nit there. he picks it up a totally different way?

corkplumber

corkplumber wrote: »

good for electrical fault finding. A word TECH distinguished on them with their qualified electrican cert. ever say to an electrican the load is nit there. he picks it up a totally different way?

I did once ask one why he wired a roomstat over a toaster.

corkplumber

gary71 wrote: »

I did once ask one why he wired a roomstat over a toaster.

that's fine gary. but will you answer my question. as I said no such thing as an eng in this industry. unless your mechanical eng , electrical eng ect. no such thing as a gas eng. your a qualified plumber with gid or your a tech (plumbers mate of old)