UPC Cisco EPC3925: Enabling True Bridge Mode - A Simple How-to Guide

gramo

Router Mode: IPv6 (DS-Lite Enabled) is the status on the router.
The guy I talked to has sent of a request to the IT team to change me to IPv4 so he said someone should ring me today about it.

Is there anything I should say that will push them into giving it to me?

ED E

Tell them you connect to work and CGN breaks this and that youll cancel if they don't revert you. That's if they give you grief over it.

gramo

ED E wrote: »

Tell them you connect to work and CGN breaks this and that youll cancel if they don't revert you. That's if they give you grief over it.

Switched back to IPv4 and smooth sailing.. Thanks for your help ED E

DECEiFER

I had to switch mine back to router mode last night for the first time in over a year and thankfully it was in IPv4 mode! Glad that you were able to get it sorted, gramo. My parents are using DS-Lite but it doesn't matter for them as they're light and basic users so I haven't gotten on to UPC to switch them back, but perhaps if enough people do, they will take that as a rejection of this implementation of IPv6, so I'm in two minds at the moment.

The thing is, I can't help but wonder when they will switch all of us home users over permanently without any way to get them to switch us back. They'd ultimately say, "We don't support such and such a thing" and that will be the end of it. I'd feck off to a slower VDSL2 ISP at that point as it's a total deal-breaker for me and many others, I'm sure. 100Mb isn't bad anyway and it offers decent enough 20Mb upload with it and FTTH is coming in the next 1-3 years. It's not really a choice at all when you think about it! All we can hope for is that Eircom and co. don't opt for the same implementation as UPC, that being the case.

degsie

How would know if you were switched to DS-Lite? Would a bridged setup just stop working?

DECEiFER

degsie wrote: »

How would know if you were switched to DS-Lite? Would a bridged setup just stop working?

Likely, yes. I don't know if they'd switch you when the modem is bridged, however, as gramo only experienced a change when he went back into router mode. But then again, he was a returning customer after breaking away months before so it's a tough one to call. If your net does break down suddenly, I'd call in to UPC and ask if they've switched you. Then tell them where to stick it and have them agree to put you back to IPv4. If it's urgent that you get online then switch the 3925 back into router mode while you wait to be reverted. You'd be able to see from the Status menu in the 3925 while in router mode if you're IPv4 or IPv6. No such stat appears when it's in bridge mode so that's encouraging.

I'm not worrying about it so much now. My previous post (rant) is just putting some concerns out there but we can cross that bridge if and when it comes.

moonboy52

Cheers for the advice DECEIFER.

DECEiFER

moonboy52 wrote: »

Cheers for the advice DECEIFER.

No hassle. I'm no expert on DS-Lite. I have put off researching it over the last while as more pressing things have been on my to-do list of late. ED E and a few other posters on this thread seem to have a fair grasp on it, though, so hopefully they can field any specific questions in the meantime on it. I know that if UPC does opt to go with it and switches everyone over without an opportunity to decline or switch back to IPv4, we're all going to have to suck it up or leave. After all, if we don't switch over to IPv6 at some stage, it defeats the purpose of it as we're running out of IPv4 numbers. I'm just hoping that UPC don't stick with DS-Lite when the final changeover does occur for the sake of us customers who need all the features and freedom we currently have to run our home networks as we please.

They wouldn't be able to do that with their SME customers as they'd leave in a pile (including me, as I'm with an organization which is an SME customer that is running servers crucial to our operation, on top of me having a home connection with them). They're not that stupid to even chance it for a second with SMEs so you'd have to wonder what they'll do to get them over to IPv6, if they have plans to do so at all in the near future.

degsie

Wonder if UPC would apply a 'do not switch to DS-Lite' proviso on your account if you approach them. I hate having this hanging over me and assume if I have a problem with my network at some point, it might be because they switched me!

DECEiFER

degsie wrote: »

Wonder if UPC would apply a 'do not switch to DS-Lite' proviso on your account if you approach them. I hate having this hanging over me and assume if I have a problem with my network at some point, it might be because they switched me!

I've been thinking the same. PM'ing the reps and asking is the best way to find out.

moonboy52

degsie wrote: »

Wonder if UPC would apply a 'do not switch to DS-Lite' proviso on your account if you approach them. I hate having this hanging over me and assume if I have a problem with my network at some point, it might be because they switched me!

I'm thinking about phoning them and asking that very question degsie.

It is the first thing i check when i wake up (first world problems )

DECEiFER

moonboy52 wrote: »

I'm thinking about phoning them and asking that very question degsie.

It is the first thing i check when i wake up (first world problems )

PM'ing might be better as the reps are more solid than the call center staff when it comes to this sort of thing (think about how many people get misinformed over the phone) and if they tell you they can do it, it's in writing accessible to you at any time. Trying to get them to review a phone call on the other hand would possibly be more difficult.

degsie

moonboy52 wrote: »

I'm thinking about phoning them and asking that very question degsie.

It is the first thing i check when i wake up (first world problems )

I worry too much about these things also :eek:

And why in the hell have they picked a technology named after a well known small gaming console! It makes googling a biatch.

DECEiFER

degsie wrote: »

I worry too much about these things also :eek:

And why in the hell have they picked a technology named after a well known small gaming console! It makes googling a biatch.

Go with the aul' hyphen in there and maybe lob in "IPv6" while you're at it. Was never a fan of the DS Lite and I'm not looking forward to DS-Lite any differently!

ED E

DECEiFER wrote: »

No hassle. I'm no expert on DS-Lite. I have put off researching it over the last while as more pressing things have been on my to-do list of late. ED E and a few other posters on this thread seem to have a fair grasp on it, though, so hopefully they can field any specific questions in the meantime on it. I know that if UPC does opt to go with it and switches everyone over without an opportunity to decline or switch back to IPv4, we're all going to have to suck it up or leave. After all, if we don't switch over to IPv6 at some stage, it defeats the purpose of it as we're running out of IPv4 numbers. I'm just hoping that UPC don't stick with DS-Lite when the final changeover does occur for the sake of us customers who need all the features and freedom we currently have to run our home networks as we please.

They wouldn't be able to do that with their SME customers as they'd leave in a pile (including me, as I'm with an organization which is an SME customer that is running servers crucial to our operation, on top of me having a home connection with them). They're not that stupid to even chance it for a second with SMEs so you'd have to wonder what they'll do to get them over to IPv6, if they have plans to do so at all in the near future.

Thats the thing, DSLite isnt anything to do with IPv6 really. It uses it, but at both ends it turns back to IPv4. Its all about the cost of IPv4 space and the "Internet of Things". For all we care about DSLite is the same as what cellular operators have been doing for years, sharing publics between clusters of customers. Thats fine for your phone. A right pain for fixed line power users.

Currently BT and Comcast are trialling CGN systems, and probably more ISPs that I havent read about. The reality is as more and more of the world becomes connected the more of an issue the v4 shortage will be. If v6 was actually supported end to end then we could all just move to public v6 addresses, no double NAT, no hassle. But v6 has been ratified and ready for years....*googles* ...since circa '96...and we still use v4 for over 90% of traffic. Several of the big tech firms and groups have tried their best, but its still only creeping along.

Assuming IPv6 still isnt "a thing" in 2yrs we'll most likely see a lot of CGN going on. Only reason eircom arent doing it I'd say is their allocation is as big as it was at the peak of their monopoly but the customer base is smaller post LLU. Vodafone are huge and could benefit a lot from it, we may see it shortly. My guess is in this situation the opt out or pay your way out model could work just fine. Say you're UPC and you have 500,000 publics (for example) for ireland. If you CGN'd it all you could then have 15,000,000 IPs on a 30:1 NAT system. Even a 5:1 system would give you plenty. Then they could reserve a chunk of the original set for no NAT to allocated to SOHO/SME/Enterprise customers. That leaves us. The nerds. They can either allow us request no DSLite as we are now and not charge us. Or they could add it as premium service, just like a static IP is with the DSL operators. Or for network simplicity they could just say no, but I doubt they'd go that way when theres a quick buck to be made.

/rant

DECEiFER

End-to-end or nothing! That's my view. If UPC can and will provide IPv4 ongoing at no additional cost to the minority of nerds like us, brilliant. If not, then it comes down to the ol' finances and changing ISP might be kinder on the wallet. There's no good reason to ration NATs out when there are enough IPv6 addresses out there for everyone. It's half-assed as far as I'm concerned. If a job's worth doing, it's worth doing right without compromise. Unnecessary compromise pisses me off.

ED E

DECEiFER wrote: »

End-to-end or nothing! That's my view. If UPC can and will provide IPv4 ongoing at no additional cost to the minority of nerds like us, brilliant. If not, then it comes down to the ol' finances and changing ISP might be kinder on the wallet. There's no good reason to ration NATs out when there are enough IPv6 addresses out there for everyone. It's half-assed as far as I'm concerned. If a job's worth doing, it's worth doing right without compromise. Unnecessary compromise pisses me off.

Thats the catch right there, there are enough. UPC would love to give us one each, or even 4 each, wouldnt matter to them. Would even be cheaper than NAT. Problem is theres nothing to connect to on IPv6. If you were moved to straight IPv6 in the morning you'd essentially be offline.

Im normally first to blame ISPs, but in this instance its not really their fault, its the internet as a whole that has the problem and more up to anyone serving content to fix.

DECEiFER

ED E wrote: »

Thats the catch right there, there are enough. UPC would love to give us one each, or even 4 each, wouldnt matter to them. Would even be cheaper than NAT. Problem is theres nothing to connect to on IPv6. If you were moved to straight IPv6 in the morning you'd essentially be offline.

Im normally first to blame ISPs, but in this instance its not really their fault, its the internet as a whole that has the problem and more up to anyone serving content to fix.

So it would seem cooperation is necessary. Let's hope it happens and the transition is made. In the meantime, for as long as we can keep things as is, so long as UPC will allow us, we can stay put if nothing else UPC does forces us to switch.

Thanks for the clarification. It just goes to show how far behind I am on my nerdsearch!

ED E

We have one big safety net, gamers. AFAIK the NAT traversal on many Xbox Live and probably PS Network titles will fail behind CGN. So if they start rolling it out everywhere there'd be uproar and they'll have to find a middle ground.

DECEiFER

ED E wrote: »

We have one big safety net, gamers. AFAIK the NAT traversal on many Xbox Live and probably PS Network titles will fail behind CGN. So if they start rolling it out everywhere there'd be uproar and they'll have to find a middle ground.

Great point! And thankfully gaming is no longer a niche market and will likely never be again unless the world goes all post-apocalyptic.

degsie

DECEiFER wrote: »

It just goes to show how far behind I am on my nerdsearch!

Want to nerd out? Here is the RFC...

https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc6264

city24

Can anybody with an EPC3925 and working Management Menu (with Bridge/Router mode values) send me a copy of their HTML page of Administration.asp?

Back in 2013 I successfully used OP's method to enable the Bridge mode, but after the firmware has been upgraded in 2014, POST'ing a working_mode=0 or working_mode=1 to 192.168.100.1/goform/Administration results in a FORBIDDEN screen. I could use the coaxial cable method, but it's just that I'm having a modem replace soon, and I would like to have my old bridge settings back. I'm not sure if I'll be able to perform this once I hard reset.

Please help.

roast

city24 wrote: »

Can anybody with an EPC3925 and working Management Menu (with Bridge/Router mode values) send me a copy of their HTML page of Administration.asp?

Back in 2013 I successfully used OP's method to enable the Bridge mode, but after the firmware has been upgraded in 2014, POST'ing a working_mode=0 or working_mode=1 to 192.168.100.1/goform/Administration results in a FORBIDDEN screen. I could use the coaxial cable method, but it's just that I'm having a modem replace soon, and I would like to have my old bridge settings back. I'm not sure if I'll be able to perform this once I hard reset.

Please help.

I can throw it up on Pastebin if you like but if you're getting a Forbidden page even with the method you've used, I doubt there'll be any difference. A hard reset shouldn't make a difference either - it's probably going to load the same boot firmware as you're getting now. Try a coax pull first, I reckon.

DECEiFER

Are you in Ireland, city24? If not, then your new firmware is likely blocking the POST action page and you're not going to get anywhere with any sort of HTML injection.

city24

roast wrote: »

I can throw it up on Pastebin if you like but if you're getting a Forbidden page even with the method you've used, I doubt there'll be any difference. A hard reset shouldn't make a difference either - it's probably going to load the same boot firmware as you're getting now. Try a coax pull first, I reckon.

OK, please post yours. I'll try that, if not, then I'll have to do a hard reset (no other way).

DECEiFER wrote: »

Are you in Ireland, city24? If not, then your new firmware is likely blocking the POST action page and you're not going to get anywhere with any sort of HTML injection.

No, I'm not in Ireland. My ISP seems to have never enabled the Router/Bridge mode UI, although again, with the older firmware I could perform the HTML trick.

DECEiFER

city24 wrote: »

No, I'm not in Ireland. My ISP seems to have never enabled the Router/Bridge mode UI, although again, with the older firmware I could perform the HTML trick.

We've had posters from other UPC areas including Romania where this is happening so it's not something new. They haven't done it to the firmware here in Ireland (yet) but it seems in other countries they are restricting the access. I think you will need to forget about the HTML injection method.

city24

DECEiFER wrote: »

We've had posters from other UPC areas including Romania where this is happening so it's not something new. They haven't done it to the firmware here in Ireland (yet) but it seems in other countries they are restricting the access. I think you will need to forget about the HTML injection method.

Yeah, unfortunately. I hope after I'm successful resetting it back to Router mode, I can enable Bridge mode again. If not, ehh... I guess I'll either have to call my ISP (which is VERY unfavorable) or use the DMZ mode.

DECEiFER

city24 wrote: »

Yeah, unfortunately. I hope after I'm successful resetting it back to Router mode, I can enable Bridge mode again. If not, ehh... I guess I'll either have to call my ISP (which is VERY unfavorable) or use the DMZ mode.

Best of luck with it! Do try and call them and speak to someone who's competent in the Technical Support department. I know UPC Ireland wouldn't cooperate at all if any of us were in your shoes as they're very rigid, so hopefully your UPC division are more generous.

tnegun

Hey guys I switched my EPC 3925 route to bridged mode 18 months or more ago and it was fine until I recently upgraded to the 240Mbps service. Now I consistently get a max of 40Mbps down and 24Mpbs up where it had always been close to the rated speed prior to the upgrade.

I spoke to support and they where very helpful but zeroed in on the cable modem being in bridge mode(They told me) and said this was causing the slow down and won't troubleshoot further until I reset it to routed. Does this make sense to anyone?

My line stats check out SNR and power levels are all acceptable according to UPC so they put it down to the cable modem config. Result is the same wired or wireless. I haven't ruled out my router(Asus N66u)it's difficult to get at! It's been power cycled without making any noticeable difference.

degsie

tnegun wrote: »

Hey guys I switched my EPC 3925 route to bridged mode 18 months or more ago and it was fine until I recently upgraded to the 240Mbps service. Now I consistently get a max of 40Mbps down and 24Mpbs up where it had always been close to the rated speed prior to the upgrade.

I spoke to support and they where very helpful but zeroed in on the cable modem being in bridge mode(They told me) and said this was causing the slow down and won't troubleshoot further until I reset it to routed. Does this make sense to anyone?

My line stats check out SNR and power levels are all acceptable according to UPC so they put it down to the cable modem config. Result is the same wired or wireless. I haven't ruled out my router(Asus N66u)it's difficult to get at! It's been power cycled without making any noticeable difference.

A quick switch back to router mode would surely confirm this, surprised you haven't tried this.