Pitch Invasion - What you think of it?

cormac halpin

mmcn90 wrote: »

There is a potential for injury with a pitch invasion no matter what the size of the crowd, its dangerous full stop. Just because some pitch invasions pass off without incidence, doesnt make it safe. People start to run when they get on the pitch, clambering for the best position. If they were to fall, there is a good chance that they could be trampled.

Its an uncontrolled environment, thats what makes it unsafe.

I fear we are banging our heads off a brick wall here my friend, some people won't see the light until there is a death, or worse, deaths.

Mr Simpson

cormac halpin wrote: »

I fear we are banging our heads off a brick wall here my friend, some people won't see the light until there is a death, or worse, deaths.

We may be. Personally I am coming from the perspective of somebody who stewards in Croke Park. I give up my time, free of charge to the GAA and I love doing so. But, I refuse to allow somebody to put me or my colleagues in danger, just so they can have a better view of Sam. I have seen quite a lot of injuries occur during pitch invasions, but rarely do they make the news.

I have also been assaulted and had colleagues assaulted by people who were hell bent on getting on the pitch. People should just grow up and behave like adults, there is no need for you to get on the pitch, why bother. Its not allowed to happen in other countries, why should it happen here.

Also, the pitchside gates are not there to make it easier for fans to get on the pitch. They are EMERGENCY exits, to be used only in the event we need to evacuate via the pitch.

cormac halpin

mmcn90 wrote: »

We may be. Personally I am coming from the perspective of somebody who stewards in Croke Park. I give up my time, free of charge to the GAA and I love doing so. But, I refuse to allow somebody to put me or my colleagues in danger, just so they can have a better view of Sam. I have seen quite a lot of injuries occur during pitch invasions, but rarely do they make the news.

I have also been assaulted and had colleagues assaulted by people who were hell bent on getting on the pitch. People should just grow up and behave like adults, there is no need for you to get on the pitch, why bother. Its not allowed to happen in other countries, why should it happen here.

Also, the pitchside gates are not there to make it easier for fans to get on the pitch. They are EMERGENCY exits, to be used only in the event we need to evacuate via the pitch.

Its very hard to argue with any of that. I think its only fair to give you the last word on it. Thanks for you help and volunteerism.

The Don 1985

mmcn90 wrote: »

We may be. Personally I am coming from the perspective of somebody who stewards in Croke Park. I give up my time, free of charge to the GAA and I love doing so. But, I refuse to allow somebody to put me or my colleagues in danger, just so they can have a better view of Sam. I have seen quite a lot of injuries occur during pitch invasions, but rarely do they make the news.

I have also been assaulted and had colleagues assaulted by people who were hell bent on getting on the pitch. People should just grow up and behave like adults, there is no need for you to get on the pitch, why bother. Its not allowed to happen in other countries, why should it happen here.

Also, the pitchside gates are not there to make it easier for fans to get on the pitch. They are EMERGENCY exits, to be used only in the event we need to evacuate via the pitch.

Fair enough your a stewart in CP and fair play to you for giving up your time on a Sunday to go in and watch the sporting activities free of charge !!!!! I have experienced alot of you stewarts over my years attending CP and the majority of them and this may or may not include you are as useful as tits on a bull and only there for the free ride. Why not leave it up to the guys who are getting paid to do it anyway ? Not as if the GAA are short a few bob and wouldnt survive without you.

Mr Simpson

TBH most of the matches there are of no interest to me, so I'm hardly there to watch a free match. We volunteer our time, because the GAA ask for volunteers, without volunteers the GAA would need to hire between 200-300 stewards per match, yet you would be complaining if your ticket price was raised to fund that.

We do our best, and tarring everyone with the same brush doesn't do much for your argument.

Also you've replied just to attack the volunteers in CP, yet you haven't responded to my (imo very valid) points.

The Don 1985

mmcn90 wrote: »

TBH most of the matches there are of no interest to me, so I'm hardly there to watch a free match. We volunteer our time, because the GAA ask for volunteers, without volunteers the GAA would need to hire between 200-300 stewards per match, yet you would be complaining if your ticket price was raised to fund that.

We do our best, and tarring everyone with the same brush doesn't do much for your argument.

Also you've replied just to attack the volunteers in CP, yet you haven't responded to my (imo very valid) points.

TBH I think both for and against arguements have had very valid points , as were your points that I failed to respond to the last time. To be fair at least you are speaking from experience and not on behalf of the players as some people of this thread have been doing, he will remain nameless for fear he might try and get involved in this again with his sarcastic comments for every situation when he has no answer for a question or comment. I think we may just agree to differ on this one and both parties are coming from different perspectives .

I'm only having a dig at you RE the freebe thing. Nothing personal but I do think the stewarts attitude in CP needs some adjusting at times, not all obviously as some are decent blokes but the others give yee a bad name.

Tell me this , do you get a lunch allowence for the day or anything like that for your efforts ?

Mr Simpson

The Don 1985 wrote: »

TBH I think both for and against arguements have had very valid points , as were your points that I failed to respond to the last time. To be fair at least you are speaking from experience and not on behalf of the players as some people of this thread have been doing, he will remain nameless for fear he might try and get involved in this again with his sarcastic comments for every situation when he has no answer for a question or comment. I think we may just agree to differ on this one and both parties are coming from different perspectives

Thats fair enough, I'm giving my perspective on it.

I'm only having a dig at you RE the freebe thing. Nothing personal but I do think the stewarts attitude in CP needs some adjusting at times, not all obviously as some are decent blokes but the others give yee a bad name.

Some do, but the majority don't. There's no need to generalise, its like saying all Guards are scum, because you got pulled over by one of them 10 years ago and he was an ass.

Tell me this , do you get a lunch allowence for the day or anything like that for your efforts ?

We get a choice of a sandwich, breakfast roll or curry. All of which are muck

DDC1990

cormac halpin wrote: »

I fear we are banging our heads off a brick wall here my friend, some people won't see the light until there is a death, or worse, deaths.

Out of interest, what have you seen that makes you think there is the potential for death in a pitch invasion.

You say someone could trip, and be trampled on.

Someone could also trip on the steps leaving the match in an orderly fashion and hit their head.

Someone could fall infront of a bus on Dorset Street.

Accidents happen everywhere, all the time.

As for getting trampled on, if they opened the gates in a safe sequence (Gates 1, 5, 9, 13. followed by 2, 6, 10,14) people would be coming on the pitch in safer numbers, from different parts of the ground, and it would be much easier to see people falling in front of them, if such a thing did happen.

Mmcn90, well done for Volunteering, its something that i'd love to do personally. I understand where you are coming from with the safety issue, and I know the gates are for Emergencies! :P I was just saying that the facility for safe entry onto the field is there, much like it would be in case of a fire.
As for people that assaulted Stewards. You will always have a bad element, but thats no excuse. They should have been arrested.
Would you not think that the crowds would be better behaved if you told them to wait 5 minutes, and that they would be let on to see the presentation safely? Then there would be no reason for them to assault anyone.

I have done gate security for the Cumann na mBunscoil Finals in Croke Park, so I know what you are on about :P Seriously though Parents can become pretty determined to get on the field to take a photo of Little Johnny with his medal in Croker. Its bad enough with the 100 or so Parents trying to get on, I can't imagine what its like with Thousands :P

Mr Simpson

DDC1990 wrote: »

Out of interest, what have you seen that makes you think there is the potential for death in a pitch invasion.

You say someone could trip, and be trampled on.

Someone could also trip on the steps leaving the match in an orderly fashion and hit their head.

Someone could fall infront of a bus on Dorset Street.

Accidents happen everywhere, all the time.

True, but its far less likely to happen, compared to 20,000 people running on a pitch

As for getting trampled on, if they opened the gates in a safe sequence (Gates 1, 5, 9, 13. followed by 2, 6, 10,14) people would be coming on the pitch in safer numbers, from different parts of the ground, and it would be much easier to see people falling in front of them, if such a thing did happen.

I'm sorry, but its dangerous, full stop. The risk far outweighs the benefit of letting people on the pitch

Mmcn90, well done for Volunteering, its something that i'd love to do personally. I understand where you are coming from with the safety issue, and I know the gates are for Emergencies! :P I was just saying that the facility for safe entry onto the field is there, much like it would be in case of a fire.
If you wan't to, keep an eye on the croke park website, they regularly look for volunteers. Yes, the exits are there, but they are a last resort and should only be used as such, it is not as safe as exiting via the normal exits.

As for people that assaulted Stewards. You will always have a bad element, but thats no excuse. They should have been arrested.
Would you not think that the crowds would be better behaved if you told them to wait 5 minutes, and that they would be let on to see the presentation safely? Then there would be no reason for them to assault anyone.

Its not a bad element as such, its the effects of over consumption of alcohol. I've been assaulted twice and I am not the only one, far from it. Trying to reason with a drunk person does not work 99% of the time.

I have done gate security for the Cumann na mBunscoil Finals in Croke Park, so I know what you are on about :P Seriously though Parents can become pretty determined to get on the field to take a photo of Little Johnny with his medal in Croker. Its bad enough with the 100 or so Parents trying to get on, I can't imagine what its like with Thousands :P

It can be hell at times, but I love it. Sometimes the smaller events are the worst. The worst one I have done was a college final in Croker, only about 6,000 people, but the worst behaviour I have experienced.

.

Peanut2011

DDC1990 wrote: »

As for getting trampled on, if they opened the gates in a safe sequence (Gates 1, 5, 9, 13. followed by 2, 6, 10,14) people would be coming on the pitch in safer numbers, from different parts of the ground, and it would be much easier to see people falling in front of them, if such a thing did happen.


I have done gate security for the Cumann na mBunscoil Finals in Croke Park, so I know what you are on about :P Seriously though Parents can become pretty determined to get on the field to take a photo of Little Johnny with his medal in Croker. Its bad enough with the 100 or so Parents trying to get on, I can't imagine what its like with Thousands :P

If you did gate security than you would know what you are talking about. Having gates open in sequence makes no difference. What happens there is that you get people from other parts pushing towards the open gate and so on..

Furthermore the issue with opening gates for pitch invasion is that you have many people that just want to be first on and they push trough without regards for others. In emergency, people are lot more responsive and they will listen.

I'm saying this from experience of over 10 years working in CP.

People that complain about not being allowed on the pitch are the very same people who would be first to scream blue murder if their child or relative got hurt in the process. They would also be the same people who scream inequality when they are refused entry with one ticket for them and their 2 kids without realizing that we would endanger everyone if we allowed that.

The attitude it's ok as long as I'm fine in some people is so far that they can't understand anything else.

kstand

Someone might get killed during a pitch invasion? What a load of sensationalist rubbish.
As for the argument that there are 80000 trying to get the field in Croke Park at the same time - more rubbish. A good 25000 for starters are on the upper deck and at least half on the lower decks and on the hill will have lost and have no interest in going anywhere only home with their tail between their legs.
Pitch invasions were very much part of All Ireland Final day and should be preserved - securely monitored if needs be and signs put up warning patrons that they enter the field at their own risk. If there is say a Westlife concert on in Croke Park you haver twice as many on the field as after an AI yet that is fine? On top of that, nearly all the people at an AI are honest and genuine people who will not try to endanger the safety of anyone - let parents be responsible for their children and there's no problem.
Even auld women wouldnt carry on the way some of ye have on this thread.

Mr Simpson

kstand wrote: »

If there is say a Westlife concert on in Croke Park you haver twice as many on the field as after an AI yet that is fine? On top of that, nearly all the people at an AI are honest and genuine people who will not try to endanger the safety of anyone - let parents be responsible for their children and there's no problem.
Even auld women wouldnt carry on the way some of ye have on this thread.

No you don't, Pitch capacity for a concert is limited to 14,000. About half the amount of people who would be on the pitch for an All Ireland final.

You will also get a higher level of alcohol consumption at an All Ireland final, compared to a westlife concert. No matter how honest people are, alcohol changes people. I've also seen people deliberatley put their children in danger to try and force us into opening the gates, now that shocked me.

Brain Stroking

cormac halpin wrote: »

No, and thank God for that, the GAA have been very lucky so far. But I do like your way of doing things, lets wait for someone to die before we change the laws, it worked very well with the English FA and Hillsborough I guess.

It was keeping fans in the stands that caused Hillsborough. If there was a pitch invasion it would have been better.

Good luck trying to keep Mayo/Donegal fans off the field on Sunday

Mr Simpson

Brain Stroking wrote: »

Good luck trying to keep Mayo/Donegal fans off the field on Sunday

People said that about Dublin last year

kstand

mmcn90 wrote: »

No you don't, Pitch capacity for a concert is limited to 14,000. About half the amount of people who would be on the pitch for an All Ireland final.

You will also get a higher level of alcohol consumption at an All Ireland final, compared to a westlife concert. No matter how honest people are, alcohol changes people. I've also seen people deliberatley put their children in danger to try and force us into opening the gates, now that shocked me.

There's no call for that at all - cant believe someone would do that with a child. Cant understand why something cant be arranged so that the fans are aware and everything done in somewhat of an orderly fashion. You will get young lads gone cracked after an AI but by and large, most people are responsible and if somnething was in place you'd have no bother at all.

Mr Simpson

kstand wrote: »

There's no call for that at all - cant believe someone would do that with a child. Cant understand why something cant be arranged so that the fans are aware and everything done in somewhat of an orderly fashion. You will get young lads gone cracked after an AI but by and large, most people are responsible and if somnething was in place you'd have no bother at all.

Neither could I, it really was shocking to see, and it involved me pulling two kids out of the crowd. Its not always young lads that are the problem, Its a huge percentage of the crowd that have consumed a large amount of alcohol. To give you an example without going into too much detail, I was punched in the face by a middle aged, well dressed male (who had consumed a large amount of alcohol)

Peanut2011

kstand wrote: »

Cant understand why something cant be arranged so that the fans are aware and everything done in somewhat of an orderly fashion. You will get young lads gone cracked after an AI but by and large, most people are responsible and if somnething was in place you'd have no bother at all.

It is arranged now, as a result of the small minority who want to do everything in their power to get on to the pitch without regards to anyone else, no one will be allowed.

Now as a RESPONSIBLE adult I am sure "nearly all" AI attendees will be able to follow the rules set.

gronemeyer

kstand wrote: »

There's no call for that at all - cant believe someone would do that with a child. Cant understand why something cant be arranged so that the fans are aware and everything done in somewhat of an orderly fashion. You will get young lads gone cracked after an AI but by and large, most people are responsible and if somnething was in place you'd have no bother at all.

Let's be honest the pitch would be trampled to bits and idiots not everybody would be ripping up lumps of turf to start their Croke Park out the back garden from the turf of the glorious victory, with finals scheduled for the next couple of weeks, do these players not deserve to have a decent if not perfect pitch?

kstand

gronemeyer wrote: »

Let's be honest the pitch would be trampled to bits and idiots not everybody would be ripping up lumps of turf to start their Croke Park out the back garden from the turf of the glorious victory, with finals scheduled for the next couple of weeks, do these players not deserve to have a decent if not perfect pitch?

And this doesnt happen every time they hold a concert in there?

gronemeyer

kstand wrote: »

And this doesnt happen every time they hold a concert in there?

Why would Westlife fans want to start their own mini Croke Park? Not to mention their is usually a gap between concerts and game days and the pitch is normally re-laid after a concert...

LeftBlank

The Don 1985 wrote: »

Fair enough your a stewart in CP and fair play to you for giving up your time on a Sunday to go in and watch the sporting activities free of charge !!!!!

TBH, I'm a steward at CP too and I find this statement very insulting. Yes I get to see the match is great and all that but I can't enjoy the match. If my county are playing, I can't cheer them on. I'm not there with my friends/family and that too takes away from the experience. Essentially, I am there to perform a duty. I am also there from well before the stiles open until well after the match is over, so it's not like I'm strolling in 5 minutes before throw in.

I give up a large part of my free time to help the GAA because the GAA is a very important part of my life and I want to give something back to the organisation. Most of the games I have little/no interest in. I would hope that if you ever came across me, you would find me helpful.

I would definitely agree that some are a long for the free ride though, and I think they do a great disservice.

Why not leave it up to the guys who are getting paid to do it anyway ? Not as if the GAA are short a few bob and wouldnt survive without you.

Croke Park are extremely reluctant to use paid security and not because of cost. They would much rather use people who have an interest in the GAA. Paid security brings with it an "us and them" mentality which "generally" doesn't exist with stewards.

kstand

gronemeyer wrote: »

Why would Westlife fans want to start their own mini Croke Park? Not to mention their is usually a gap between concerts and game days and the pitch is normally re-laid after a concert...

There's 2 weeks between the hurling and football AI finals.

LeftBlank

kstand wrote: »

There's 2 weeks between the hurling and football AI finals.

What about the Camogie finalists? Or do they not deserve a decent pitch?

gronemeyer

LeftBlank wrote: »

What about the Camogie finalists? Or do they not deserve a decent pitch?

Normally yes but the hurling is next week..... Not to mention the ladies football the week after... And there is usually a game in the middle of the mens hurling and football finals played on the pitch...

kstand

LeftBlank wrote: »

What about the Camogie finalists? Or do they not deserve a decent pitch?

If they are happy to hold concerts in CP in the middle of ther summer, then pitch invasions should not be an issue.

Lapin

gronemeyer wrote: »

Normally yes but the hurling is next week..... Not to mention the ladies football the week after... And there is usually a game in the middle of the mens hurling and football finals played on the pitch...

I don't follow. What does next weeks hurling replay have to do with anything ?

The game played in the middle of the men's hurling and football is the camogie final.

gronemeyer

Lapin wrote: »

I don't follow. What does next weeks hurling replay have to do with anything ?

The game played in the middle of the men's hurling and football is the camogie final.

Well a large pitch invasion would wreck the pitch. Especially if their has been rainfall before hand, don't you think?

And as already stated do the camogie players not deserve a decent surface and the ladies footballers the week after the mens final?

Wile E. Coyote

There won't be any pitch invasion on Sunday because it's going to end in a draw .

I have to laugh at some of the people suggesting they give the players 5 minutes to celebrate or console each other and then get behind a safety cordon before opening the gates to let the the fans run loose. How selfish are you? These lads have trained for years in the hope of simply getting to an All Ireland final and they might never be there again. Do you not think they deserve some time after the final whistle to reflect on whats just happened and take it all in before before being mobbed by thousands of people they don't even know?

StephenHendry

bucketybuck wrote: »

The most important factor for me is the players, I doubt they want thousands of bloody yahoos running up and slapping them on the back. Its not like any of those annoying kids did the legwork to win whatever title was at stake, so leave the players in peace. Its much more satisfying to see the players celebrating together than to see them mobbed by a bunch of people they dont even know.

i see where you are coming from but its part of the gaa, i mean look at the recent under 21 final where both sets of fans came on the pitch and it went off without incident, you will definitely see a few jumping through anyway, it just makes them more determined

kstand

Wile E. Coyote wrote: »

There won't be any pitch invasion on Sunday because it's going to end in a draw .

I have to laugh at some of the people suggesting they give the players 5 minutes to celebrate or console each other and then get behind a safety cordon before opening the gates to let the the fans run loose. How selfish are you? These lads have trained for years in the hope of simply getting to an All Ireland final and they might never be there again. Do you not think they deserve some time after the final whistle to reflect on whats just happened and take it all in before before being mobbed by thousands of people they don't even know?

If I ever won an All Ireland (wont happen now unfortunately) I cwouldnt care less who was mobbing me I'd be so happy. I'd wnat to be down with the people from my own parish and county whether I knew them or not.